Yeah, we're done here. This is childish beyond belief.
Your obsession with going into every single thread about this topic with the specific intent of starting arguments is getting to be a bit much. I shouldn't have replied at all.
Or when we were theorycrafting how the show would address the snap when the new season started and it just glossed over the whole thing. :(Remember that time we thought AoS was gonna show the aftermath of Infinity War before Infinity War but it turned out it was just Daisy?
That whole show is a What If and that's fine.
the movie characters showing up in the show didn't clue you in?
Hell techincally we are canon as the real world is a universe in the MU.
the movie characters showing up in the show didn't clue you in?
Worked for The ZeitgeistI really need a better origin story. Older man with digestive issues isn't going to get me on any superhero teams.
none, thought you were still talking about agents of shieldWell that really wouldn't prove it by itself, but since we were talking about Daredevil in that post you quoted please tell me which movie characters showed up in Daredevil.
This. Never watched a second of the show and never saw any discussion about the movies having a single drop of reference or callback or anything to AoS or any of the netflix shows. It's been this way for years and always will be, until the D+ shows started where Fiege straight up said you need to watch them to follow along properly.Must be why they keep referencing your show in those big MCU flicks, Mr. Gregg!
Why do you guys get so bent out of shape over which timeline the events transpired in?The thing is, when Gregg said that I don't think he was saying it with the multiverse in mind. AoS started long before the MCU introduced the concept of a multiverse, and the show was always meant to be part of the MAIN universe OF the MCU, not as some varied parallel universe where the characters exists alongside the characters of the movies
AoS will always be canon to me, just like the Netflix shows.
Anyone who dislike the shows can ignore them and people who love the shows can include them as canon if they want, especially now the multiverse is officially MCU canon.
It's referenced a ton. Hell, they just recreated one of the scenes from IH for What If…This topic has been getting angry on the various marvel reddits.
But basically it's Schrodingers canon.
Feige is not going to say either way and will avoid outright contradicting or even mentioning any of the shows.
This carries on with the Daredevil rumours that says it's a soft reboot where you assume the stuff from Netflix happened but they won't talk about it. It's also a bit like with the Incredible Hulk (but to a lesser extent), that film is canon but is not really referenced, and even abomination has been soft rebooted with his new look in the Shang Chi film.
Gemma can only come back if they turn her into a Deathlok.Coulson, Quake, FitzSimmons and Robbie are too good to leave in AoS limbo. Bring them or the whole cast back for a D+ series.
Aida was one of the best Marvel villains created, and that season 4 is top tier easily across any show.
It's referenced a ton. Hell, they just recreated one of the scenes from IH for What If…
The worse part is that the hellicarrier in Age of Ultron is this nothing reveal that nobody was really surprised by. It was the plot equivalent of the scene where the airplane falls beneath the clouds and for a second the movie pretends it crashed only for it to soar a moment later.Out of curiosity do you ever work with integrations? Agents of Shield and the MCU were one way flow. The show references the movies but the movies don't reference the show.
But there is no need to handwave it. What is wrong with just incorporating a certain amount from these tv shows into the main narrative? They don't have to bring in all the characters or bring in all the elements, just piece by piece the most important parts. ABC MCU has Quake and Ghost Rider, and Netflix MCU has several superheroes.It's not the only way, but given how hard AOS went with Inhumans, I dunno if they want to touch or keep any of it by the time Kamala gets here.
Just seems easier to handwave it off.
What the hell? The article you posted did absolutely nothing to detract from what you bolded in my post. If anything it confirms what I said. That article was posted last year, seven years after the launch of this show.*cough*
Agents of SHIELD Leans Into the Marvel Multiverse
To be honest, it's entirely possible to read AoS as the "first" MCU multiverse.
THANK YOU
Because within the MCU (FRANCHISE), there has been and always will be one main MCU (UNIVERSE). This universe within this franchise is where 99% of the IPs' stories take place, whether in the form of movies or tv shows. The only IPs I can think of that predominantly take place in an alternate universe are Loki and What If, the latter of which the whole premise is about alternate universes.Why do you guys get so bent out of shape over which timeline the events transpired in?
I'll never understand the Marvel Television fans' obsession with this. Some if the events of AoS are super messy in the continuity of the timeline most of the current MCU films were set in. Retconning the show to a different universe avoids the issue and allows any of the characters to return at any time (even the dead ones).
i dont see how it wasnt cannon anyway when when fury has shown up in the show along with maria hill and lady sif, hell coulson is the one who was in charge of builing the helicarriers that saved everyone in age of ultron.
THANK YOU
I have read all of your posts in this thread, you are doing God's work
The issue is that regardless of what some audience members thought, the storylines from the TV shows never made sense in the context of the "prime" universe (I dislike this term because it seems to dimishes the events of other universes, but I'm not sure how else to word it). Shit like the existence of thousands of inhumans running rampant on the Earth would have absolutely come into play during the drafting of the Sokovia Accords. Inhumans would've been like... the prime reason for the Sokovia Accords. That they've never even been mentioned in the movies is a huge issue. The fact that agents of SHIELD took down inhuman gods on other planets with no involvement from any of the various gods in the movies is a huge issue. Hive was a bigger threat than Thanos ffs. That's not even getting into the Infinity War situation. The TV show shit never actually worked in the context of the movie universe. What makes it MESSY is trying to reconcile all that and just tell audiences "don't think about it too hard, just turn your brain off." Fuck all that, frankly.Because within the MCU (FRANCHISE), there has been and always will be one main MCU (UNIVERSE). This universe within this franchise is where 99% of the IPs' stories take place, whether in the form of movies or tv shows. The only IPs I can think of that predominantly take place in an alternate universe are Loki and What If, the latter of which the whole premise is about alternate universes.
I would even say that for the past 11 years, part of what made the MCU's storytelling so appealing is that each of the IPs share a common, singular history and continuity. The multiverse was teased in 2016 with Dr. Strange but wasn't first seen on screen until Endgame in 2019, and even then it wasn't really the main focus although it was a big part of the plot.
And even now 11 years later, the latest installments that are also new IP (Shang Chi, Eternals) are still being established as part of the MAIN MCU. As an audience member I would be more engaged if the Netflix MCU and ABC MCU IPs were part of the same continuity, just like all the other IPs are.
These IPs were always meant to be in the main continuity. From 2015 onward when watching the show, that's the mindset that the audience had when sitting down to watch them. To say they are from an alternate reality just opens more cans of worms that are best avoided. If the Netflix MCU is a separate MCU, then does Matt Murdock & the Defenders not exist in the main MCU?
And if they do exist in the main MCU, are the Netflix MCU all variants? And if they are all variants, do all of the storylines from the Netflix MCU matter less since the main MCU's character arcs could be something slightly or completely different?
Fuck all of that shit. The Netflix MCU already has a built-in fanbase, and those characters and their arcs deserve just as much connection to the main MCU as all of the rest of the IPs. Making them involved only through a multiverse make it seem like their previous live action stories weren't important enough - but we (the fans of Daredevil) always and still believe the stories are as important.
Does that answer your question in bolded? I ask that sincerely because this is really important to me and you calling it an obsession makes me feel like I am less of a real fan for wanting more incorporation between Netflix/ABC MCU and the main one.
What the hell? The article you posted did absolutely nothing to detract from what you bolded in my post. If anything it confirms what I said. That article was posted last year, seven years after the launch of this show.
If I understand it correctly, the character Fitz transports himself to another timeline, from what they call the MAIN timeline. Sounds like something pulled off in Endgame and it further proves that the main setting of AoS is meant to be the main MCU. Nothing in that article suggests that the main setting of AoS is an alternate universe separate from the one seen in the movies.
The issue is that regardless of what some audience members thought, the storylines from the TV shows never made sense in the context of the "prime" universe (I dislike this term because it seems to dimishes the events of other universes, but I'm not sure how else to word it). Shit like the existence of thousands of inhumans running rampant on the Earth would have absolutely come into play during the drafting of the Sokovia Accords. Inhumans would've been like... the prime reason for the Sokovia Accords. That they've never even been mentioned in the movies is a huge issue. The fact that agents of SHIELD took down inhuman gods on other planets with no involvement from any of the various gods in the movies is a huge issue. Hive was a bigger threat than Thanos ffs. That's not even getting into the Infinity War situation. The TV show shit never actually worked in the context of the movie universe. What makes it MESSY is trying to reconcile all that and just tell audiences "don't think about it too hard, just turn your brain off." Fuck all that, frankly.
You need to get used to the idea of other universes mattering just as much as the one the previous movies took place in. The multiverse is going to be a major part of the MCU (franchise) going forward, and the cleanest way to explain all the continuity inconsistencies with the Marvel Television shows is to say they took place in a different, yet similar, universe to ours. That doesn't diminish the events of those stories. Those are still the characters you love and their universe is similar enough. Splitting it off just makes the overall continuity cleaner. As you said, "part of what made the MCU's storytelling so appealing is that each of the IPs share a common, singular history and continuity." That is exactly why the TV shows don't fit in. They don't fit into the continuity. Now with shows like Ms. Marvel on the horizon, inhumans are going to need to be involved and it would be ridiculous to all of the sudden now start referencing the events of the TV shows when they were wholly ignored up until now.
We're entering a new era when characters from literally any other franchise can be introduced through the multiverse and actually be prime players in the MCU (franchise) going forward. Casual audiences are being slowly conditioned to accept this through Loki and What If, and soon Spider Man 3 and Strange 2. It would be incredibly easy to just explain the Netflix/ABC shows in the same fashion. This also gives Feige the ability to bring in the beloved characters from those series and ignore the crap. I'd still like to see a proper Inhuman royal family in the MCU Fantastic Four films, for example. I'd love to see Iron Fist done right.
I wouldn't say you are "less of a fan" or anything, but I do have trouble understanding how you can say you enjoyed the franchise largely due to its unprecedented adherence to a singular continuity and then want to include a bunch of stuff that fucks with that continuity. In that respect I would suggest that you don't actually care about continuity all that much. That doesn't make you less of a fan, but it certainly makes you a different type of fan than me.
Exactly. Before this I considered the MT shows to be "EU" level at best. Now they can all be canon and real. The multiverse fully legitimizes them.They went big and weird and cool with their stories which helped the show be good but also created a larger gulf between the movies and themselves. EXCEPT! for now that the multiverse is a real in MCU proper it's all canon. It all works and nothing contradicts. I'm not sure why there would be any pushback on it. I actually feel like it potentially makes AoS and the netflix shows more legit now that there is this clear avenue for them to integarate into everything else nicely. Before Loki I just kind of considered them an un-official what if...? kind of situations.
I'm still sad that we never got this. It would have been the perfect nod to the show.
I was always meh on the show itself, but man that theme slaps.
I'd like to think that was on a variant timeline that was pruned.At least we can all still agree that the Inhumans tv show is canon.
The only way it would make sense to me from a storytelling perspective to make the shows not canon, is if they retcon them as literally never even happening, if that makes sense. And you're right, all of the MCU television shows were announced to be within the MCU. Besides James Gunn, there is no other authoritative person saying otherwise. From what I can tell now, it is only other fans commenting and saying they aren't canon and that observation just comes from the lack of connections.Fighting the good fight!
Seriously though, I fully understand that Marvel Studios might make these shows non-canon. It's possible.
But to try and argue that they were never part of the MCU is flatly false. The Netflix shows and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. were all quite literally announced to take place in the MCU. The Russo brothers are on record saying that they considered the Netflix characters for Infinity War/Endgame at one point but thought they were already biting off too much to properly fit them in. It's factually wrong to say they never were, even if you believe they'll be made non-canon eventually.
But if Charlie Cox appears as Daredevil, that throws a big fat wrench in the whole "no longer canon" argument. Because Marvel Studios isn't going to directly reference the plot from the Netflix shows if he has a simply cameo in Spider-Man but they're also not going to say, "This is a different Daredevil than the other one he played."
It's convoluted and pointless.
I disagree with this on so many levels. Firstly, when you say "what some audience members thought," you're immediately dismissing those audience members' desires and downplaying what those fanbases want to see. And I don't think that's fair. Those IPs were promised to being part of the bigger picture and that was part of what kept the fan base invested. It is absolutely no different than other superhero IPs introduced via films in later MCU phases that were also connected to the ongoing saga.The issue is that regardless of what some audience members thought, the storylines from the TV shows never made sense in the context of the "prime" universe (I dislike this term because it seems to dimishes the events of other universes, but I'm not sure how else to word it). Shit like the existence of thousands of inhumans running rampant on the Earth would have absolutely come into play during the drafting of the Sokovia Accords. Inhumans would've been like... the prime reason for the Sokovia Accords. That they've never even been mentioned in the movies is a huge issue. The fact that agents of SHIELD took down inhuman gods on other planets with no involvement from any of the various gods in the movies is a huge issue. Hive was a bigger threat than Thanos ffs. That's not even getting into the Infinity War situation. The TV show shit never actually worked in the context of the movie universe. What makes it MESSY is trying to reconcile all that and just tell audiences "don't think about it too hard, just turn your brain off." Fuck all that, frankly.
You need to get used to the idea of other universes mattering just as much as the one the previous movies took place in. The multiverse is going to be a major part of the MCU (franchise) going forward, and the cleanest way to explain all the continuity inconsistencies with the Marvel Television shows is to say they took place in a different, yet similar, universe to ours. That doesn't diminish the events of those stories. Those are still the characters you love and their universe is similar enough. Splitting it off just makes the overall continuity cleaner. As you said, "part of what made the MCU's storytelling so appealing is that each of the IPs share a common, singular history and continuity." That is exactly why the TV shows don't fit in. They don't fit into the continuity. Now with shows like Ms. Marvel on the horizon, inhumans are going to need to be involved and it would be ridiculous to all of the sudden now start referencing the events of the TV shows when they were wholly ignored up until now.
We're entering a new era when characters from literally any other franchise can be introduced through the multiverse and actually be prime players in the MCU (franchise) going forward. Casual audiences are being slowly conditioned to accept this through Loki and What If, and soon Spider Man 3 and Strange 2. It would be incredibly easy to just explain the Netflix/ABC shows in the same fashion. This also gives Feige the ability to bring in the beloved characters from those series and ignore the crap. I'd still like to see a proper Inhuman royal family in the MCU Fantastic Four films, for example. I'd love to see Iron Fist done right.
I wouldn't say you are "less of a fan" or anything, but I do have trouble understanding how you can say you enjoyed the franchise largely due to its unprecedented adherence to a singular continuity and then want to include a bunch of stuff that fucks with that continuity. In that respect I would suggest that you don't actually care about continuity all that much. That doesn't make you less of a fan, but it certainly makes you a different type of fan than me.
No. As I said, 99% of these IPs all already take place in the same consistent continuity. So whenever any of these IPs refer to the main timeline, they're referring to the same exact timeline every time. And that definitely is the case again in the comicbook article with the AoS dialogue referring to the main timeline.I mean, every timeline will refer to themselves as the "main timeline", yes? And, given that Thanos is only mentioned once in AoS, and the blip doesn't occur, is it not reasonable to suggest that a way to make AoS "canon" (for a given level of canon) is for Marvel to treat it as a multiverse reality which was main until a certain point?
Yup. Sometimes I think comic writers invented the multiverse just to shut up the comic nerds constantly whining about canon.Canon obsession is fun in moderation, but some folk take it far too seriously.
I would say that the comics have nothing to do with this, but that's technically not true. If the studio decides to reintroduce all these characters via multiverse I think that'd be a terrible mistake but it is what is at that pointYup. Sometimes I think comic writers invented the multiverse just to shut up the comic nerds constantly whining about canon.
Its on Netflix
We literally are in a Multiverse situation...everything is canon lol