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"Chris Avellone is an abusive, abrasive, conniving sexual predator." - UP: Claims dismissed - threadmark
- Thread starter Gabriel Hall
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It's sad to hear this, and I wondear if anything will come of it. I also wonder if this is the reason Obsidian parted ways with him?
It's tragic when a writer with such pedigree and talent has such an aledgedly dark, vile past. I really hope the women he's wronged find a way to heal.
It's tragic when a writer with such pedigree and talent has such an aledgedly dark, vile past. I really hope the women he's wronged find a way to heal.
Gross. He's tied to so many of my favorite games. Oh well, he's a shitbag and I don't do celebrity worship, so he can get fucked like the rest of them. It's crazy how many of the guys who has so much to do with my PC gaming beginnings are just completely awful human beings.
No, that was money. Although I wouldn't put it past Faergus to insinuate otherwise now.
Yeah, his behavior during that killed any respect I had for the man. Well, that and how much he seemed to bask in the praise from the cesspool that is the codex.
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Avellone didn't write Honest Hearts. He wrote Dead Money and Old World Blues, and oversaw Lonesome Road. He's credited as "Narrative Designer" for Honest Hearts, but I'm pretty sure he only wrote the stuff that linked the other DLC expansions to it. JE Sawyer was the one that oversaw Honest Hearts.
Fucking ew. This and Ansel Egort has me hating talented people who are coincidentally sexist, harassing douchebags.
You know what, you certainly did. I must've looked right over that part, sorry about that.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I think you're right. Especially the parts about him chasing out female creative voices that could have written material of the same quality but never had a chance to, and the need to stand in solidarity with the survivors.
That was according to Avellone and do you honestly think he would tell anyone that part of the reason he got fired is because he is a raging alcoholic? Feargus has never said anything about the issue.
I don't know who she is but the posts after this of her experiences make me feel sick to my core. I can't even begin to understand people's actions that do this kind of disgusting behaviour.
I can't fathom how someone could type out those texts, think they're appropriate, and hit send.
According to Jacqui, Avellone was something of a mentor to her. That makes this so much worse. A complete betrayal of the trust she put in him. His sniveling apologies (immediately offering to get out of her life) rub me the wrong way, too. They read like he's trying to make her pity him for being an asshole. He's clearly done this before.
His whole happy go lucky persona on Twitter really is a bunch of bullshit. I have a hard time believing his dirty breakup from Obsidian wasn't related to this in some capacity, be it the rampant abuses or alcoholism. Avellone using RPGCodex of all places to air his dirty laundry or tweeting Phil Spencer directly to suggest he fire a bunch of Obsidian people should have told us all we needed to know.
I guess you could call "having a passive aggressive pity party meltdown while simultaneously taking the opportunity to paint targets on the backs of his accusers" "apologizing" if you were drunker than he was.
You would think for a guy, who is famous for his writing, he would write more then one sentence, not that it would matter anyway.
So many women telling their experiences on twitter right now. Not just about Chris, but in general. Women from the FGC, Esports, and various positions in this industry.
I know you'll find this sort of behavior from in any profession. But its crazy how long these guys are allowed to operate in this profession that has been very vocally against this type of behavior for years now.
I know you'll find this sort of behavior from in any profession. But its crazy how long these guys are allowed to operate in this profession that has been very vocally against this type of behavior for years now.
I want Jason to write a big story and destroy this fucker's career. YEARS of abuse isn't a thing that you can just say sorry and continue on like nothing happened.
This is horrible. There's always a bit of mental whiplash for me when talented people like Avellone and Soule turn out to be scumbags.
Power is a helluva thing. Expose them all, only ways things are going to change.
Power is a helluva thing. Expose them all, only ways things are going to change.
Fuck you Chris.
Not sure if you're implying this is an example of his shitty predatory behavior bleeding into the writing, but just to be sure, Ricky shown without a doubt to be a stupid sad piece of crap that the game gives every possible chance for you to call him out on his bullshit and possibly make him carry your shit for you or make a few caps off him. Then he dies 5 seconds into the DLC lol
Fucking ew. This and Ansel Egort has me hating talented people who are coincidentally sexist, harassing douchebags.
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i might be a bit naive, but think thats already a given.
can't really see him being attached to any project without a huge backlash anymore.
maybe only ghost writing for smaller things.
I mean, I knew he was already an abrasive ass long before this, but this is a whole different level of awful. And those tweets in response... oof! I thought "Maybe he's going to acknowledge he messed up and try to be a better person!", then I saw the other responses and who he was responding to, and all I could think was "Oh... OH!... ohhhhhhh..."
I guess when you have your head up your ass for so long due to the acclaim given your works, you think you're a victim in every situation.
In other words, at this point, it's not really his own financials one should worry about so much as whether you truly want to support his work or not at an individual level and if it sits right with you.
* In terms of works he creatively headed
I guess when you have your head up your ass for so long due to the acclaim given your works, you think you're a victim in every situation.
He does mostly contract these days, so he's already gotten paid before most of these games even go gold. And the other works he involved with while employed at Black Isle and Obsidian a*) are often now extremely cheap to purchase, so it's not like he's actually getting any royalties, and/or b) he only had a minor role (Fallout: New Vegas, Pillars of Eternity).
In other words, at this point, it's not really his own financials one should worry about so much as whether you truly want to support his work or not at an individual level and if it sits right with you.
* In terms of works he creatively headed
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That's a stretch.
How about victims talk about it when they are comfortable, whenever that may be?
It's very much at this point a question of "Regardless of financials, do I want to support this person and their art?", and people are justified in answering "no" if they don't want to buy works he's involved with. I do the same with Polanski - I know he's probably not getting much money from me getting a copy of Chinatown, a film in a genre I greatly enjoy, but I still have no desire to watch it just because of its affiliation with him.
Yeah. I dunno. I often look at it from a financial perspective, as I can know whether they benefit from it or not. If he is already paid, then my action or lack thereof makes no difference I guess. I hope he gets blacklisted from future opportunities at the very least. I wrestled with similar questions when Rockstar's crunch culture reports came out sometime back.
User Banned (3 Weeks): Ignorant and insensitive commentary concerning sexual assault victims
We can deal with your patronizing attitude right away if you wish. I certainly did not imply they should not talk about it if it is indeed much later.
I understand people are scared but It will certainly help if victims speak about it as soon as possible. That way it is documented and if others come forward it helps build even more evidence. Talking about it years after the fact introduces many variables. Foggy memories, evidence that might no longer be there, witnesses that may have been around at the time, etc. There is a reason why having a jury who knows none of the details beforehand is ideal.
Rather than flat out avoiding anything he's worked on in the past or that is out soon, I'll avoid any projects by studios bringing him on after this revelation. Of which I hope there will be none. Those studios would effectively be sending the message of: "Yup, we're ok with sexual harassment."
There's often some path towards redemption and making amends, but that's for time and people who aren't me, just some fucking guy, to decide.
There's often some path towards redemption and making amends, but that's for time and people who aren't me, just some fucking guy, to decide.
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You're very welcome. :)
Uh, wow. This is major-league fucked up. Adding this to the OP as well, albeit under a spoiler tag since it's NSFW.
I've actually been thinking of creating a separate thread now that so many more women are speaking out. I just haven't had the time to collect all their tweet threads, but I think it's important to highlight how systemic this "boys' club" brand of sexual harassment is in the gaming industry. Like you said, we know this happens in other industries, but we still ought to talk about the unique systems in place that protects predators in the gaming industry specifically.
Could you phrase this without saying you want to "deal" with someone else's attitude? We're posting in this topic because we're collectively invested in discussing systemic abuse in the games industry and what we can do about it. We don't have to begin a confrontation over it. (EDIT: I realize I sounded a bit hostile, so I rephrased my words)
Survivors are scared because their abusers have power over them. So when survivors speak out, the abusers already have systems in place to protect themselves. The abuser could have emotionally or physically isolated the survivor so that they have no friends to support them. The abuser could be emotionally manipulating and gaslighting the survivor over months/years of grooming so that she never realizes he's being abusive until long after the fact. A survivor who speaks out can be blacklisted/fired from her job and she now has to bring this up if she wants to apply for another position in the industry. Or, more simply, a survivor isn't safe to speak out because her abuser is present enough in her life that he could still do her some manner of harm if she outs him. Finally, a survivor may not be ready to talk about it because doing so will re-ignite the trauma she went through and she may not be in a mentally-fit state of mind for that.
There are so many cultural forces acting against survivors speaking out, more than I'm aware of. And these forces can persist long after the abuse is "over" (because how do we know when it is?). As consumers and outsiders and, in my case, a cis straight dude, it is not our place to decide when survivors should call out abusive men. I understand why it's worth arguing for evidence and witnesses and juries, but the only reason we're even hearing about the predatory behavior of men in power is because survivors are being brave and comfortable enough to talk about it on their own terms and platform. Their safety ought to come first and the legal solution second.
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I was merely just giving my opinion. It just seems far too often we hear about these things many years after the fact. Of course I sound ignorant not being in that position but I was just offering an opinion. He could have either taken my comment for what it was or ignore it, I just don't appreciate the condescending attitude.
Sounds like they tried to do something before, told him to get help. I guess he's naracissitic as well thinking he's not the problem. Glad others are speaking out because it sure sounds like it will take a group to bring him down. My apologies for not sounding supportive, I just wish more people would come out sooner because it seems like the longer it lasts the more they think they can get away with it.
I really think when you get the chance you should make the thread. The Destiny guy and now this and many others being openly talked about. It's clear there needs to be a serious convo about this. The Games Industry needs to be better about taking out it's own trash.
You underestimate how much power abusers have had and been given. They make victims feel alone and crazy and turn their allies against them. The police are useless at investigating sexual assault and rape and will sometimes fumble a case that allows the abuser to get away. There's no guarantee that if you come out with your story others will follow. Victims always have to fight an uphill battle that takes a toll on them and ruin their careers. Would you want to risk getting blacklisted in an industry you love to work in? Cuz that's usually the sad end result along with having to relive the trauma. The victims know they should report as soon as possible, but rarely has it ever helped them get justice without any extra damage to their name.
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Here is a twitter thread that helps explain why saying, "I understand people are scared but this stuff needs to be reported right away, not years later" is so insulting and naive.
Is it really that hard to just not be a scumbag? Like that's really not a high bar.
Don't want to go out of your way to help people, okay fine, whatever, but jesus just don't be a terrible person. Like stop, don't do creepy and predatory things. This isn't goddamn hard.
Don't want to go out of your way to help people, okay fine, whatever, but jesus just don't be a terrible person. Like stop, don't do creepy and predatory things. This isn't goddamn hard.
I don't want to defend his abusive behavior, but I think some of you misunderstand his "games should be apolitical" stance. He's just saying that a game's story shouldn't pick a side and force it upon the players - It should present every factions/moral values as rich as possible, and let the players decide for themselves which path to follow. It might not work for games like The Last of Us or Horizon, but many great RPGs for the last 25 years are born from that philosophy.
Still, fuck Chris Avellone. I just hope more non-problematic game designers adopt that approach of narrative.
Still, fuck Chris Avellone. I just hope more non-problematic game designers adopt that approach of narrative.
So when the story lets you emotionally abuse a ghost to make her answer your questions and it's as effective as not engaging in abuse, you think that's not taking a side?
Not everything needs to be a morality play. And that's not even the worst thing you/the practical incarnation have done.
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