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Jul 7, 2021
3,155
Then that's the consequence of their actions.


Especially about this visit. I'm not surprised it escalated this fast.

No no no no. China already did that way before this visit. Example from June:

www.bbc.com

China warns Taiwan independence would trigger war

China's defence chief tells the US that Beijing will fight against any Taiwan independence bid.

So what you're saying is that you'd be OK with that? We should just let China take military action and invade Taiwan, just like Russia has been invading Ukraine?
 
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kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,369
For those on the side of Nancy shouldn't have poked the pooh bear, what can anyone reasonably do to support Taiwan? Everything is going to make China angry. Should we just walk away from supporting them? Leave the country to its own devices?

I think that's a worse idea.
Yup. China has bullied its neighbors on the seas, drawn increasingly ambitious lines denoting areas they believe they control, built artificial islands and turned them into military bases, continued to threaten Taiwan. Waiting around for the CCP to become kinder and gentler seems like folly to me. Better to make it clear that we stand united with Taiwan and would assist in the case of an invasion. Whether they believe that or not and whether it works or not is up in the air but it beats not trying and watching them invade Taiwan and massively restrict rights as they did in Hong Kong.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,369
Wait. She doesn't mention or blame either Pelosi or the US in her statement. She's wrong! We know better than the President of Taiwan! /s
Seriously. There are some clown-shoes posts in here that absolve the CCP of any responsibility because it's a "bad time" as if there has been a good time with that government in the last 40 years.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,518
Seriously. There are some clown-shoes posts in here that absolve the CCP of any responsibility because it's a "bad time" as if there has been a good time with that government in the last 40 years.
I think this stems from people just wanting to shit over the US government every chance they get even in cases where they are in the right. I mean people will even resort to victim blaming and absolve the CCP of their awful tactics.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,369
I think this stems from people just wanting to shit over the US government every chance they get even in cases where they are in the right. I mean people will even resort to victim blaming and absolve the CCP of their awful tactics.
Yup, it sure seems that way, particularly when the phrase "provoke another superpower" is used. I don't see how that phrase is used unless they believe that the US is responsible for Russia invading Ukraine, which is absurd.
 

TorianElecdra

Member
Feb 25, 2020
2,513
Everyone needs to fucking chill, my god. Feels like we are in the early 1900s with every military country just losing their minds.
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
US fuck around and found out. On the expense of another nation of course.

Taiwan is a sovereign nation and can host whomever they please for any reason they please.

China has been having legit bank-runs and people are refusing to pay mortgages en masse, to the point military intervention has had to quash protests. I'm amazed THIS is such a high priority for them right now.
 

ironjoe

Member
Jan 26, 2018
702
NYC
Taiwan is a sovereign nation and can host whomever they please for any reason they please.

China has been having legit bank-runs and people are refusing to pay mortgages en masse, to the point military intervention has had to quash protests. I'm amazed THIS is such a high priority for them right now.
Anything to distract from the bank runs I suppose. I personally wonder how long China can stoke nationalism and overweening CCP pride before they can't control what they've created. Hopefully Russia's experience has taught them something, though I suppose we'll see in the next 20 years or so.

I believe demographically they won't have enough soldiers to fight a war in Taiwan (within the next 20 years) so I'm hoping the answer to now or never is the second.
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
Anything to distract from the bank runs I suppose. I personally wonder how long China can stoke nationalism and overweening CCP pride before they can't control what they've created. Hopefully Russia's experience has taught them something, though I suppose we'll see in the next 20 years or so.

I believe demographically they won't have enough soldiers to fight a war in Taiwan (within the next 20 years) so I'm hoping the answer to now or never is the second.

I don't care to speculate and project these kinds of things. I just feel like when you have such a large country and population and the lack of political friction, you could do so much good. But they don't because... I don't really know. That's hyper capitalism, I suppose.
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
China, hyper capitalist?

Yes. They're a state controlled capitalist society.
Their entire model is based around commodities, labor exploitation and controlling foreign debt. Their entire current economic system is using cheap labour to make export commodities, as well as infrastructure and debt generation in foreign countries. What do you think Belt and Road is if not the largest state-sponsored capitalist endeavor on the planet currently?

Just because they put "communist" in their title does not make them an anti-capitalist society. Just like DPRK is not democratic.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,599
Yes. They're a state controlled capitalist society.
Their entire model is based around commodities, labor exploitation and controlling foreign debt. Their entire current economic system is using cheap labour to make export commodities, as well as infrastructure and debt generation in foreign countries. What do you think Belt and Road is if not the largest state-sponsored capitalist endeavor on the planet currently?

Just because they put "communist" in their title does not make them an anti-capitalist society. Just like DPRK is not democratic.

Capitalism by definition requires business be owned and controlled by private individuals free from direction of the state.

You can't go against the CCP if they don't want it.
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
Capitalism by definition requires business be owned and controlled by private individuals free from direction of the state.

You can't go against the CCP if they don't want it.

My friend, I'm not going to get into a fight over definitions. They're an aggressively and violently profit-driven enterprise that are exploiting the poor domestically and abroad. They're cut from the same cloth.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
Keep fucking around grandstanding and the other side will do the same.
There's a bit of a difference in 'grandstanding' between 'senior politician flies in for meetings' and 'test-firing rockets over the island, causing a protest from a third country entirely, while immediately deciding on manoeuvres that put your fleet in an obvious encirclement/invasion training run'. That's not matching grandstanding with grandstanding, it's throwing the toys out of the pram in a weird tantrum manifesting as a show of martial strength.
 
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demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,599
My friend, I'm not going to get into a fight over definitions. They're an aggressively and violently profit-driven enterprise that are exploiting the poor domestically and abroad. They're cut from the same cloth.

The cloth being money/power. China business solely exists for reinforcing the CCP power & wealth. Private individuals at the end of the day cannot control the direction of the largest companies in China. ex) Jack Ma.
 

Doran

Member
Jun 9, 2018
1,847
The cloth being money/power. China business solely exists for reinforcing the CCP power & wealth. Private individuals at the end of the day cannot control the direction of the largest companies in China. ex) Jack Ma.

I hear what you are saying but I feel like private companies and individuals control Western Governments through insane amounts of lobbying and corruption.
 

Kneefoil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,451
Don't these idiots see what is happening with Russia?

Dictators have the smallest dicks
If China does eventually decide to attack Taiwan, it will be interesting to see how the reactions compare to Russia invading Ukraine. I unfortunately foresee more resistance to enbargoes and companies leaving the country since the world is by and large more economically reliant on China than Russia.
 

LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,704
Keep fucking around grandstanding and the other side will do the same.
eye-roll-the-office.gif
 

Jroc

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
Yes. They're a state controlled capitalist society.
Their entire model is based around commodities, labor exploitation and controlling foreign debt. Their entire current economic system is using cheap labour to make export commodities, as well as infrastructure and debt generation in foreign countries. What do you think Belt and Road is if not the largest state-sponsored capitalist endeavor on the planet currently?

Just because they put "communist" in their title does not make them an anti-capitalist society. Just like DPRK is not democratic.

China's economic system is complicated.

It is (was) the world's sweatshop, but it is absolutely not a free market. The state itself owns or is able to arbitrarily take control of every business in the country. Competition isn't free and the state itself can pick the winners it wants. The country also has almost nothing in the way of IP protection, so foreign companies have to deal with a ton of bullshit and uneven competition. Companies that reach a certain size are required to have Communist Party members on the board to oversee their actions.

So in some ways they are not regulated (safety, IP, workers rights) but in other ways the state runs and manipulates the economy, which is very much against the spirit of Capitalism.

Honestly the only thing stopping the country from being labeled as classically Fascist is the relative lack of state-sponsored violence. Most of the other tenets are already there, with the ethno-nationalist angle being more of a background element for now.
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
8,784
United Kingdom
Keep fucking around grandstanding and the other side will do the same.

What is wrong with you people?

China claims a democratic nation that doesn't want to be a part of China as theirs, one woman makes a visit with no state backing and that's okay to institute a blockade?

Is this going to act as another weeding out of toxic tankies like the invasion of Ukraine did?
 

Jroc

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
Isn't the genocide of the Uighurs state-sponsored violence?

Absolutely.

The culture of violence doesn't quite permeate everyday Chinese society though like it did in Italy or Germany. Perhaps it's due to a lack of domestic targets, or because the violence is rarely made public. Maybe China is in some sort of late-stage Fascism where the revolution is long over and internal scapegoats are largely gone. The CPC in general is more subdued in the way it handles things, though you can hear whispers of nationalist fever whenever things like this Taiwan visit happen.
 

siteseer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,048
It's incredibly frightening how the quarter part of this century is beginning to feel and look a lot like the quarter part of last century: fragile alliances cracking, authoritarianism/fascism rising, nativism, pandemics, empires ascending/descending, dictators lashing out to rekindle their glory years, economic recessions, huge cultural and political divisions. All the things in place that became the powder kegs last century are back…except everyone has goddamn nukes.
right? it's like someone is checking off the boxes. the last one being 'nuclear weapons used.'
 

Kschreck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,075
Pennsylvania
Everything that China is doing now basically is the same shit Russia did before invading the Ukraine. Really looking like China will invade within the next year or so. Can't imagine how devastating this would be to the world economy and technology. Could set us back many many years. I can only hope cooler heads will prevail. China has gotten really ridiculous in the last few years with their fear mongering.
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Banned
Feb 25, 2018
8,536
I wonder if Xi is also surrounded by people who will only say what he wants to hear, just like Putler.

"Can I take over Ukraine in 3 days" Of course, my lord

Taïwan will fuck their shit up if they attack them. They won't go silently into the night.
 

NetMapel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,407
"After reunification, we will do re-education", said the Chinese ambassador to France
He also argued people of Taiwan rejected reunification because they were brainwashed by Taiwan government


View: https://twitter.com/BFMTV/status/1554866631079256066?s=20&t=jI7hreHOlsK33sLk5W5D7Q

Sounds a lot like the Russian rhetoric about Ukrainian nazis regime holding Ukraine hostage, eh?

Also don't forget what China did to Hong Kong. The world needs to see how people's lives and livelihood have been affected.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qMaKLwqU3vI


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bJn3J_PPFGE
 
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Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Banned
Feb 25, 2018
8,536
www.businessinsider.com

Taiwan's military is training for urban warfare against Chinese troops. Here's the kind of fight they're facing.

As Russia's struggles in Ukraine show, capturing major urban centers is a challenge for any military.

Taiwan is home to about 23 million people, most of whom live in several major cities where a war for the island would be won. China's military has superiority on pretty much every level, but Taiwan has the advantage of defense, which its military is betting on.

"Yes, the Chinese might win at the end of the day because of their sheer numbers, but it won't be easy and it will cost them a lot. What we're seeing unfolding in Ukraine right now is the best deterrence Taiwan could ask for," the officer told Insider.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,123
Limburg
This wasn't out of nowhere, this is basically in direct response to Nancy pelosi visiting Taiwan for no fucking good reason at all.

We have fucking egotistical clowns in power all over the world.
Taiwan wanted Pelosi there, just like her visit to Ukraine. What do you know that the Taiwanese government who gave Pelosi a fucking award doesn't know?
 

Zip

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,027
China can fuck right off.

The West and allies should be looking very closely at the mistakes made that allowed Russia to attempt what it's doing to Ukraine right now. There may still be a window to prevent another shithead dictator looking to cause widespread misery for fuck all.

Does Taiwan have any protection arrangements with other countries? I know the U.S. has said they would help, but I'm not sure how formal any such things are.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,591
Keep fucking around grandstanding and the other side will do the same.
Who exactly?

If we're talking about Pelosi, her trip was completely harmless on the merits. Xi is just a baby.

If we're talking about China, I wouldn't wanna shoot at them first. Just saying. Let Xi be a manchild. If things actually get dangerous that's another story that could go so many different ways depending on the circumstances.