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China’s new ‘social credit system’ is a dystopian nightmare
- Thread starter Ryder9
- Start date
This is pointless sophistry, everyone knows what the poster means.
Do you also request evidence that China has Muslim rehabilitation camps.
The true voice of China, secondhand accounts as told by non-Chinese.
No.
And to answer your follow up questions - I've been to Xinjiang a bunch of times and I have quite a few Catholic Chinese friends.
So there is no credit given to people who report others praying?
Thats not what you're doing and not what Im referring too. Your post bout how this is basically what everyone here wants is. You have 0 sense of history or the risks of totalitarian regimes and I wonder how you apparently never absorbed any content that shows that, because it's ingrained in the history of the world. That's scary. And makes me afraid of what people might give up in order to feel "safe".
I'm listening to the people in here. Are they not people? Are their viewpoints invalid, and if so, why?
Well, guess it's ok then. As long as they all color within the party's cultural lines.
No respond to what I'm afraid of, not the straw man you put up please.
Resetera is not blocked by the great Chinese firewall. Chinese people that understand English can post here and many other places.
What's the wireless reception like in an Uyghur re-education camp?
4 million people not being able to use a train is pretty large effect.
It's a bit strange they're not worried about it, do you not think?
Absolutely scary stuff China. Swooping organs, throwing religious minorities in fucking camps and straight blackbagging folks just ain't quite getting it done I guess?
User Banned (1 month): Dismissing concerns surrounding institutional oppression and violence
Of course every Uyguhur in China is in a re-education camp, all of them.
Uh...yeah just a few hundred thousand. This is seriously your response?
Not as far as I know.
The social credit system is not a secret one, they publish what goes into it, otherwise how will it work?
And as far as I know, praying doesn't factor into any of that.
I don't think it's strange because it has really no impact on most people's lives. People don't rely on credit in China as much as in the US.
So you're just ignoring that a system to credit folks informing on others praying or belonging to a particular religion is being implemented? As long as no one you talk to mentions it?
What still interests me about it is the international impressions vs. domestic on it. It creates a lot of questions, though I couldn't be confident in any answers. Polling has shown that many Chinese are in favor of the social credit system, and even more specifically that they are in favor of the government's data collection rather than the private data collection. However, many of these Chinese polled also profess that the only social credit arms that they are knowingly involved in are the private systems run by the tech and online retail giants etc. It feels like a sort of enemy you know vs. enemy you don't know situation, but there are a lot of twists and turns you can take in interpreting it because you both have the individual impression of how Chinese society has progressed in the past couple of decades, how that interacts with the Chinese State's influence on what the individual experiences of wider Chinese Society, and how the CCP wants its image to be projected internationally. I suspect that to any given Chinese person, the political situation appears to have thawed over the past decades and the material situation improved dramatically. But what has changed very much is the influence of corporations as opposed to the government, which has more and more backed away from having a heavy political role in institutions, opting more for setting centralized guidance and allowing a greater level of autonomy throughout Chinese society.
However, to what degree perceptions of corporations are actually influenced by the information available vs. day-to-day experience is unclear to me. For instance, the whole thing with buying diapers or video games effecting your credit rating with Alibaba's platform seemed well publicized and created an outcry by the public. Clearly this issue wasn't politically sensitive, and maybe that is because the CCP wants there to be heavier scrutiny on the private sector to suggest that the central government is the responsible party in the room, while the private sector is filled with nepotism and opaque, self-serving moguls who would fulfill the roll of capitalist exploiters if it weren't for the steady hand keeping them in line. So what you get is fear of Alibaba's usage of personal information, and the opinion that the government is probably not going to do anything too surprising with it because you already know how they operate. Furthermore, they have access to all of it. If the government targets you right now for punishment, it is assumed that they could find everything available about you or make you confess to made up shit if they wanted. Since you have little experience with the government erroneously targeting somebody you know for wrong-think, but you may have plenty of experience working at a really shitty factory with unaccountable, aggressive management, then you may resent the new mega-corporations and their burgeoning power more than the CCP, which actually you really want to do more to restrain your boss. So you get the positive opinion polling for the domestic representation of social credit as a means to create "public trust", specifically as regards the private sector and people feeling wary of getting ripped off or abused by somebody who will face no consequences.
Please explain how this system doesn't affect 'decent' people based on the stated criteria it is judging people on. Also why do you get to decide who is 'decent' and who isn't?
Whoever defends China is either completely ignorant to reality or is evil themselves (or some combination therein).
Can't wait for the stans to say that if you are a good citizen you have nothing to worry about!
Can't wait for the stans to say that if you are a good citizen you have nothing to worry about!
Well it is to anyone who posts something about yuguhers as some kind of gotcha for ANY topic in recent months on China. It would be like me shutting down any conversation about America by saying "Uh.. yeah what about all those Mexican kids in cages" as a retort. This topic is about social credit system in China.
So all of the reporting and accounts from Chinese people published in western media talking about how it does affect them are just lies?
Did you even read the damn article? It directly relates to that topic.
This is absolutely bizarre. Some of you are almost pitiable.
The social credit system is directly tied to the genocide of the Uighurs because they are using the credit system as a tool to oppress the Uighurs. Feel free to bring up indefinite detainment of Mexican immigrants in the US in any thread were it is relevant.
I'm not ignoring it, it's just that as far as I know, this is not part of the social credit system.
And to be clear, China has criminalized some religious activity in Xinjiang, but to the best of my knowledge, it was not done through the social credit system.
Again, this is not a secret system, it is meant to change people's behavior, this only work if you tell people what the rules are (which again, China does).
Or maybe they are familiar with their country and that system and have rational reasons to not worry about it.
I don't know though, I can't read minds.
So...you agree certain religious activity is criminalized but are skeptical reporting that behavior can result in positive credit in response?
Right, it's trying to change people's behavior through punishment, including changing their religious behavior. The fact that it's not secret has no bearing on whether or not it is oppressive.
I think it's mostly just bad reporting, driven to a large degree by poor command of the Chinese language.
Again, I urge you to read this -
https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/seeing-chinese-social-credit-through-a-glass-darkly/?lang=en
Of course it doesn't, but it means that you can just go and read what goes into the system and what doesn't.
And I think there's a ton of assumptions about what goes into it that are just plain false.
They're not worrying about it because they're "good decent people", yes.
Then how do you know they're not worrying about it?
Any totalitarian government system that forces behavioral change through punishment is evil. I don't see what the above has to do with anything.
It's hilarious when people say "well the people I'm in contact with aren't affected, so it must not be too bad" while ignoring that systems like these are explictly designed to
1. Silence voices of opposition even for those who aren't currently affected via fear of retribution
2. Completely silence the voice of the people who are directly affected.
It's basically an issue of survivorship bias. Of course the people who talk about it will say it's not too bad, because the people who it truly hurts have the ability to talk about it stripped away from them
1. Silence voices of opposition even for those who aren't currently affected via fear of retribution
2. Completely silence the voice of the people who are directly affected.
It's basically an issue of survivorship bias. Of course the people who talk about it will say it's not too bad, because the people who it truly hurts have the ability to talk about it stripped away from them
They're not telling you because they know they'll get sent to the deathcamps if they do
What the fuck? Are Resetera admins okay with people okay with ethnic cleansing? Even one person in a concentration camp is too much asshole.
Maybe I'm reaching a bit but, as corporations and governments are getting into bed with each other more and more, and corporate interests increasingly affect politics, we should be very worried about the likes of Google and Facebook and data collection.
This article does not contradict most of the wester reporting on the social credit system, not at all. The main argument of this article is that western sources are conflating sesame credit and social credit, but I don't buy that considering even this article confirms most of the details of the social credit system that western sources have reported on, and its explanation of sesame credit doesn't apply to most reporting on the social credit system. This article is wrong, western sources are not conflating the two credit systems. You keep posting this article as some sort of gotcha but it doesn't prove what you are saying at all, nor am I sure that it is even a reliable source.
You have yet to provide proof that western reporting is making false assumptions. The article you linked does not do that
Every government in the world try to push behavioral change through punishment.
If your argument that "China is evil" because it's not a democracy, then I think we should talk about that instead of pretending that the real issue here is the social credit system.
I mean we absolutely should be worried about that now and big data was already extensively used in the last US election, but it's still much harder for a system like this to be implemented in the US because there is no one organization with enough power to one sidedly define right and wrong
This is amazing. Yes interfering in people's inner lives is evil. I'm fucking embarassed that I even have to state this to you.