ChileERA | OT | - No ERAmos tan weones... LO SOMOS

Javier · Jul 23, 2020

Serpens007 said:
Oh I mean of course there is that, however they could've just vote against and call it a day like some. Popular demand, and popular pressure, is what made this possible. People's warning were clear and loud. And, for once, they finally did do what the people demanded.

"El pueblo" es un término muy manoseado, pero es realmente la voluntad del pueblo ante meses de un gobierno que tuvo paralizado al Estado en uno de sus roles fundamentales. El hecho de que, sea por el motivo que sea, se haya votado en concordancia con esa voluntad, es lo realmente democrático.

Nos tomó un estallido, cientos de heridos, muertos, una pandemia, un gobierno increíblemente desconectado con la realidad, y la constante vigilancia y activismo de una población que al fin se dio cuenta que la política si importa.

En ese sentido la historia se repite, y es que se necesitan crisis gigantescas para generar cambios y mira el conjunto de situaciones que se tuvieron que dar para llegar a este punto y, lo que puede ser más interesante, es como esto definirá la forma en que la gente se formará sus opiniones para votar a futuro (caso concreto, cuantos votarán por Lavin para las próximas elecciones despues de todo lo que ha pasado).

It feels really weird to be living in a time that will go down in history and you'll be able to read it in the history books of the future.

LunaSerena · Jul 23, 2020

Shal said:
Its crazy infuriating that you need to move a whole country to have a chance to jail a fking rapist, and even with the whole country hes still free, fuck the justice in this country, it fking sucks.

Also "el desconfinamiento" is crazy naive, its too early to do and a lot of people dont care about quarantines anymore. I got covid last week (along my mom and brother) and it's a really bad experience that i wouldnt even want it for my worst enemy and its just painful that the government pushes desconfinamiento so much, they are making a huge mistake that all of us will pay, some with their lives.

Just look at most of the countries that have reopened, they all have new waves of covid, and knowing chileans like I do the same is gonna happen to us. This is so demoralizing.

Damn, I hope you feel better soon. If its like the flu I got last year then yeah, I don't wish it on anybody.

I think the second wave is inevitable, with or without quarantine. You said it - lots of people already don't give a damn, and september will be a disaster. A not minor amount of the population still thinks this is a hack/a flu/something not dangerous, and won't take precautions.

Javier · Jul 23, 2020

Ok mis weones, here we go!

https://www.theclinic.cl/2020/07/23...lgara-ley-que-permite-el-retiro-de-pensiones/

Mediante un comunicado el Gobierno anunció que durante la jornada de mañana viernes 24 de julio el presidente de la República, Sebastián Piñera, promulgará la reforma constitucional que permite el retiro excepcional de los fondos de las AFP.

Deleted member 62221 · Jul 23, 2020

Hehehe, they finally accepted reality. Good.

Javier · Jul 23, 2020

Lautar0 said:
Hehehe, they finally accepted reality. Good.

Shal · Jul 23, 2020

LunaSerena said:
Damn, I hope you feel better soon. If its like the flu I got last year then yeah, I don't wish it on anybody.

I think the second wave is inevitable, with or without quarantine. You said it - lots of people already don't give a damn, and september will be a disaster. A not minor amount of the population still thinks this is a hack/a flu/something not dangerous, and won't take precautions.

Me and my family have been feeling better thanks, worst days were saturday through monday (day 7-9 of infection), at least for me, where it was really hard to sleep since every few minutes it was kinda hard to breathe, also at times It was like my body forgot how to breathe, it was really scary and worrying at times. Also I was kinda paranoid which made it all worse lol (hearing horrible coughs from my mom at night didnt help either)

I think im a quite healthy person (+im 27) and still I felt really suffocated at times, I cant even imagine it on people with more health risks.

And yes I guess second wave is inevitable, its just sad for me, I hope theres a vaccine soon.

And about the 10% im glad it got approved, though they can still add "small notes" to it right? Im not gonna celebrate until the reform pass the Congress and we are assured that theres no "catch".

LunaSerena · Jul 23, 2020

Shal said:
Me and my family have been feeling better thanks, worst days were saturday through monday (day 7-9 of infection), at least for me, where it was really hard to sleep since every few minutes it was kinda hard to breathe, also at times It was like my body forgot how to breathe, it was really scary and worrying at times. Also I was kinda paranoid which made it all worse lol (hearing horrible coughs from my mom at night didnt help either)

I think im a quite healthy person (+im 27) and still I felt really suffocated at times, I cant even imagine it on people with more health risks.

And yes I guess second wave is inevitable, its just sad for me, I hope theres a vaccine soon.

And about the 10% im glad it got approved, though they can still add "small notes" to it right? Im not gonna celebrate until the reform pass the Congress and we are assured that theres no "catch".

No, Piñera is signing it off tomorrow. There won't be anymore changes, what was approved today is what goes.

Shal · Jul 23, 2020

LunaSerena said:
No, Piñera is signing it off tomorrow. There won't be anymore changes, what was approved today is what goes.

Good news then! But well tbh I dont know the details yet, but good lol.

Deleted member 4783 · Jul 23, 2020

Juesú. Ahora solo falta que metan a Pradenas a la cárcel y quedo "satisfecho". Es increíble la cantidad de pacos defendiendo el domicilio de ese xuxesumare.

Serpens007 · Jul 24, 2020

Shal said:
Good news then! But well tbh I dont know the details yet, but good lol.

Sorprendentemente, la ley es bastante buena y sin letra chica.

¿Cuánto puedo retirar, cómo y dónde me la transfieren?: Los detalles del aprobado retiro del 10% de los fondos de AFP

www.publimetro.cl

El monto mínimo a retirar será de 35 UF (1 millón de pesos) y el monto máximo será equivalente a 150 UF (4,3 millones de pesos aproximadamente).

-Si el 10% es menor a las 35 UF, los afiliados podrán retirar hasta dicho monto y, en el caso de que el monto total acumulado en su cuenta de capitalización individual sea menor a las 35 UF, se podrá retirar la totalidad de los fondos.

-La ley permite el retiro de fondos a los afiliados del sistema privado de pensiones, incluidos los beneficiarios de una pensión de vejez, de invalidez o sobrevivencia.

-El retiro se podrá hacer en dos cuotas: La primera, de 50% del monto, en un plazo máximo de 10 días hábiles, luego de presentada la solicitud ante la AFP; el 50% restante se entregará en un plazo máximo de 30 días hábiles a contar del desembolso anterior.

-Los fondos se transferirán a la Cuenta 2 de la AFP o una cuenta bancaria del afiliado. La solicitud de retiro podrá hacerse hasta un año después de promulgada la ley, aunque se levante el estado de catástrofe.

-Los fondos retirados no constituirán renta o remuneración para ningún efecto legal, serán pagados en forma íntegra y no estarán afectos a comisiones o descuento alguno por parte de las AFP.

-Además, este dinero se considerará extraordinariamente intangible para todo efecto legal y no será objeto de retención, descuento, compensación legal o contractual, embargo o cualquier forma de afectación judicial o administrativa.

Agni Kai · Jul 24, 2020

Rushersauce said:
Juesú. Ahora solo falta que metan a Pradenas a la cárcel y quedo "satisfecho". Es increíble la cantidad de pacos defendiendo el domicilio de ese xuxesumare.

Igual debe ser bastante molesto para los vecinos escuchar ruido y manifestaciones todo el día, ya que no tienen nada que ver en el asunto. Ya debe haber sido bastante desagradable darse cuenta que en algún momento interactuaron con Pradenas.

Deleted member 4783 · Jul 24, 2020

Agni Kai said:
Igual debe ser bastante molesto para los vecinos escuchar ruido y manifestaciones todo el día, ya que no tienen nada que ver en el asunto. Ya debe haber sido bastante desagradable darse cuenta que en algún momento interactuaron con Pradenas.

Fair enough

Serpens007 · Jul 24, 2020

Agni Kai said:
Igual debe ser bastante molesto para los vecinos escuchar ruido y manifestaciones todo el día, ya que no tienen nada que ver en el asunto. Ya debe haber sido bastante desagradable darse cuenta que en algún momento interactuaron con Pradenas.

Ayer en las noticias entrevistaron vecinos. Algunos decían eso, que se veían afectado y menos mal había llegado carabineros, otros estaban mas preocupados de que no estuviese en prisión preventiva.

De hecho, la prisión preventiva también tiene ese efecto. Por un lado se cuida a la sociedad, la investigación, y al mismo tiempo tiene un aparato estatal (gendarmería) que resguarda al imputado. El enviarlo a hacer arresto domiciliario es un error garrafal desde cualquier punto de vista.

Javier · Jul 24, 2020

What is this that I'm feeling?, I know it's not over but.... Is this how justice feels?

Shal · Jul 24, 2020

Im cringing so hard at this reopening plan im dumbfounded. Im certaint that its gonna be a shit show. We should first reach good levels like germany or sth before even thinking on reopening. We still have 100+ daily deaths, 2k+ new cases (REPORTED, how many days did pcr results take on some places again?) and the government is pushing a reopening? Fking idiots.

Javier said:
What is this that I'm feeling?, I know it's not over but.... Is this how justice feels?

Finally good news, but im still annoyed thinking how hard it must be for victims that can't move the whole country for their cause.

Serpens007 · Jul 24, 2020

Javier said:
What is this that I'm feeling?, I know it's not over but.... Is this how justice feels?

It was the best outcome for everyone. Even for himself, though he'll probably have to be guarded heavily to not end up as a human washing machine

Shal said:
Im cringing so hard at this reopening plan im dumbfounded. Im certaint that its gonna be a shit show. We should first reach good levels like germany or sth before even thinking on reopening. We still have 100+ daily deaths, 2k+ new cases (REPORTED, how many days did pcr results take on some places again?) and the government is pushing a reopening? Fking idiots.

Finally good news, but im still annoyed thinking how hard it must be for victims that can't move the whole country for their cause.

While not being an expert, of course, I look at what the opinions are and everyone is still asking about the real data on traceability. The fact that they don't show it says a lot, same thing has happened before, and something is there.

How has things been for the people you know with Covid or your own cases for that matter? Did everyone got the PCR test?

I know of people that just never got the test. As in: one person in the family got positive, the whole family is taken as Covid+ but as there is no PCR, they aren't added up to the official numbers.

There may be a giant overlook, and the death toll shows, we are still in critical numbers. In fact, numbers aren't even within those recommended by the WHO and experts

Shal · Jul 24, 2020

Javier said:
What is this that I'm feeling?, I know it's not over but.... Is this how justice feels?

Serpens007 said:
It was the best outcome for everyone. Even for himself, though he'll probably have to be guarded heavily to not end up as a human washing machine

While not being an expert, of course, I look at what the opinions are and everyone is still asking about the real data on traceability. The fact that they don't show it says a lot, same thing has happened before, and something is there.

How has things been for the people you know with Covid or your own cases for that matter? Did everyone got the PCR test?

I know of people that just never got the test. As in: one person in the family got positive, the whole family is taken as Covid+ but as there is no PCR, they aren't added up to the official numbers.

There may be a giant overlook, and the death toll shows, we are still in critical numbers. In fact, numbers aren't even within those recommended by the WHO and experts

Yes, as I said before me and my close family got covid (we still havent passed the "14 days") and only my mom got the test, me and my brother havent done the test so we probably arent in government stats. Supposedly we are counted as active cases cos thats what the seremi said but I dont believe them. I plan on doing the pcr but after i feel recovered as a just in case measure, but the seremi never asked us to do the test, its purely a personal action so its safe to assume that this is the case for a ton of families nation wide.

Btw the seremi was supposed to call us once a day to keep track of our state, but I only got call 1 day (last saturday) and never again did they call me or my brother, my mom i think they called like 3 times and thats it. Theres no real traceability in this country.

In my opinion the "improvement" and government stat reports are all a facade to reopen and push the economy quickly but in the long term they are harming the country more by doing that.

LunaSerena · Jul 24, 2020

Personally, I don't think desconfinamiento can be avoided - if it goes slow and the government is willing to go back to harsher measures it shouldn't be as much of a shitshow. People are antsy as hell, they're not respecting the quarantine, many need to go back to work, and to be honest, a second wave is coming whether we like it or not. Heck, places like Hong Kong which are far better than here are having issues. Only way to avoid it would be to be on lockdown until the vaccine arrives - and that's not feasible, here or in any country.

Moving to less harsh measures dosn't mean we can't take our own safety measures. I'm still on lockdown, but even when La Florida moves to phase 2 I'm not going out. Only trip out is for grocery shopping every 15 days, at 8:30 in the morning when the super is almost empty. The rest of the time I'm just staying home, and that's not gonna change.

Serpens007 · Jul 24, 2020

LunaSerena said:
Personally, I don't think desconfinamiento can be avoided - if it goes slow and the government is willing to go back to harsher measures it shouldn't be as much of a shitshow. People are antsy as hell, they're not respecting the quarantine, many need to go back to work, and to be honest, a second wave is coming whether we like it or not. Heck, places like Hong Kong which are far better than here are having issues. Only way to avoid it would be to be on lockdown until the vaccine arrives - and that's not feasible, here or in any country.

Moving to less harsh measures dosn't mean we can't take our own safety measures. I'm still on lockdown, but even when La Florida moves to phase 2 I'm not going out. Only trip out is for grocery shopping every 15 days, at 8:30 in the morning when the super is almost empty. The rest of the time I'm just staying home, and that's not gonna change.

Sure, there is a moment where we have to get out of it, the question is when. And the answer has been given: two weeks of 10 or less% positivity, 80+% of actual traceability. The first one is not met at a national level, it might? be at a local level, I'm not quite sure if it is or how really trustful is. Traceability is unknown according to experts.

All we can really do is take care of ourselves. But, to be honest, I think this is probably a way to improve sales for Dia del Niño. I sympathize with those that love getting out of the house. I love being everyday in my home, and even I want to go out, buy an innecesary shit, get ramen or a beer with the gf. But I'll stay home, as you do. My hopes are that by the end of the year I can travel somewhat safely and spend christmas and new year at the gf's place. We haven't seen each other since february.

Shal · Jul 24, 2020

Yes reopening cant be avoided but you should do it only when your country meets certain criteria and its in a good place stat wise. But here the government is pushing and forcing it without meeting the above criteria and thats very dangerous.

Tbh self quarantine its not really useful, this needs to be done group wise or it wont work. I self quarantined for the last 3+months, in fact ive been taking heavy measures since february but I still got covid, why? Because 1 of my family got it from outside and then gave it to me at home, where i thought i didnt have to be as crazy about masks and such (i still practiced social distance and washing hands every 2 mins in my home btw).

People that wont self quarantine will move the virus around and can infect others that are quarantined, thats the reality. If it wasnt 1 of my family it could have been a delivery person, supermarket goods, or who knows what.

Its a reality that a lot of people will think we are free of the virus now that we arent quarantined anymore, they will stop being as careful and that will lead to more infections, it just gives the wrong message because people just read the headlines and think everything is ok now.

Having said that i guess quarantines wont be useful anymore, it had to be done right from the beginning but we fked up (partial quarantines that did jack sht, unlimited travel passes at the beginning, lax enforcement of the needed measures, government giving wrong messages, no basic income for the ones that needed it, etc). Now we can just try to be safe ourselves and hope the vaccine comes soon, quarantines wont work anymore since we did it wrong the first time and people started thinking that they arent useful and so they wont (self fullfilling prophecy)

And well i forgot to mention that since quarantines will be lifted more and more companies will start forcing their workers to physically go to work, ruining any intent of self quarantine from your part.

Agni Kai · Jul 27, 2020

Tomen malditos. Nostalgia a la vena.

Me faltaron como 5 láminas de este álbum. Tiempos aquellos cuando los sobres costaban $100 y venían 7 láminas. Tenía el truco de tocar los sobres, porque los más gorditos siempre venían con láminas holográficas.

LunaSerena · Jul 27, 2020

Haha, that's amazing! How I miss the old Salo - I remember saving up penny after penny to save up to get the sobres, or be excited when mom bought us some after we had the school's report card.

Serpens007 · Jul 27, 2020

I think I have that cover lying around there. I wasn't really careful when I was a kid lol

Deleted member 202 · Jul 27, 2020

I completed DBZ 3 and a World Cup album ('98 probably).

Shal · Jul 28, 2020

I dont know why but seeing that made me remember about mitos y leyendas (before the crazy patriotic cards got released), it was sooo fun back then I could play it for hours without getting bored. I miss that game. I remember checking some new cards later on and they were just too overpowered which kinda felt cheap.

Serpens007 · Jul 28, 2020

Shal said:
I dont know why but seeing that made me remember about mitos y leyendas (before the crazy patriotic cards got released), it was sooo fun back then I could play it for hours without getting bored. I miss that game. I remember checking some new cards later on and they were just too overpowered which kinda felt cheap.

Never really learned to play them, but I like the art. I collected a lot of those crazy patriotic cards since I'm a nerd that like history

Agni Kai · Jul 28, 2020

Serpens007 said:
Never really learned to play them, but I like the art. I collected a lot of those crazy patriotic cards since I'm a nerd that like history

When I was 12-13, I used to keep an Afrodita and a Venus cards in my wallet for obvious reasons. I attended a boys only school, so there's that. Card trading was huge back then though. I remember that students would gather at certain places during each recess just to buy, sell and trade Yu Gi Oh, Mitos y Leyendas, Pokémon and Magic cards.

It also didn't help that we had a Salo store right inside of the closest subway station. It was usually crowded.

Deleted member 202 · Jul 28, 2020

Anybody old enough to remeber this one?

Agni Kai · Jul 28, 2020

Ecliptor said:
Anybody old enough to remeber this one?

Not this one particularly, but I do remember some Super Mario pogs. I think Barcel chips had them inside. I'm also old enough to remember that back then you had to literally use "Stick Fix" to stick your láminas on the álbum. It was crazy.

Serpens007 · Jul 30, 2020

I'm wondering when is Chile gonna burn like Matthei said

Javier · Jul 30, 2020

The only thing i wanna watch burn is metflife and their shitty company provida, their fucking useless website for the 10% withdrawal has been down since 9am.

Serpens007 · Jul 30, 2020

I haven't even tried to get into it. And won't until several days. I'm not in a hurry and don't want to help collapsing the system for those that needed it for real

Plus I read that Modelo has lots of problems

LunaSerena · Jul 30, 2020

Yeah, unless you really need to, better wait for a couple of weeks. Can't blame the companies for the collapsing websites, in just a couple of hours you've had a million requierements. I'm no IT specialist, but I doubt any website can resist that traffic.

Other alternative is you need them now is to put an alarm and get up to access the website at 3 or 4 in the morning. Tends to work for me with stuff like cyber days, because who is going to check out the websites at that hour?

Serpens007 · Jul 30, 2020

I just realized that the online tramite will be only avliable until sunday

After that it's either at AFP Offices or via Call Center

I think I'll do what LunaSerena said and do it one of these days late in the morning or at night. No way I'm gonna go to an office or be stuck an hour at the phone

Agni Kai · Jul 30, 2020

Serpens007 said:
I just realized that the online tramite will be only avliable until sunday

After that it's either at AFP Offices or via Call Center

I think I'll do what LunaSerena said and do it one of these days late in the morning or at night. No way I'm gonna go to an office or be stuck an hour at the phone

Seriously? For fuck's sake. I can't believe they are doing this. I'm not planning to retrieve mine yet.

Javier · Jul 30, 2020

I swear my weones.... i just..... fucking snoopy

Serpens007 · Jul 30, 2020

Agni Kai said:
Seriously? For fuck's sake. I can't believe they are doing this. I'm not planning to retrieve mine yet.

Yeah, I wasn't planning either but, fuck call centers or sucursales.

Agni Kai · Jul 30, 2020

Javier said:
I swear my weones.... i just..... fucking snoopy

criesofthepast · Jul 30, 2020

Serpens007 said:
I just realized that the online tramite will be only avliable until sunday

After that it's either at AFP Offices or via Call Center

I think I'll do what LunaSerena said and do it one of these days late in the morning or at night. No way I'm gonna go to an office or be stuck an hour at the phone

Is this true online is only a few days? And is that with all AFPs? How does that make any sense? I just entered Plan Vital and no issues at all, even works with expired carnets. But i haven't done mine yet because I just remembered when I came to chile I got a temporary rut immediately while my work visa was in tramite. I probably have like $50.000 under that rut lol

I want to transfer that 50k to my current rut but takes a couple days.

Serpens007 · Jul 30, 2020

criesofthepast said:
Is this true online is only a few days? And is that with all AFPs? How does that make any sense? I just entered Plan Vital and no issues at all, even works with expired carnets. But i haven't done mine yet because I just remembered when I came to chile I got a temporary rut immediately while my work visa was in tramite. I probably have like $50.000 under that rut lol

I want to transfer that 50k to my current rut but takes a couple days.

Retiro de fondos AFP: revisa aquí cómo realizar el trámite de manera digital

Hasta el domingo 2 de agosto próximo, las AFP recibirán las solicitudes de retiro que se realicen de manera remota, es decir, a través del banner o aplicación tecnológica especial que cada administradora tiene en su respectivo sitio web.

www.t13.cl

Hasta el domingo 2 de agosto próximo, las AFP recibirán las solicitudes de retiro que se realicen de manera remota, es decir, a través del banner o aplicación tecnológica especial que cada administradora tiene en su respectivo sitio web.

Según informan desde la Superintendencia de Pensiones, este plazo, en todo caso, podría extenderse, con el objetivo de resguardar la salud de los afiliados y de los trabajadores de las administradoras.

It MIGHT extend, but, I don't know

criesofthepast · Jul 30, 2020

Serpens007 said:
Retiro de fondos AFP: revisa aquí cómo realizar el trámite de manera digital

Hasta el domingo 2 de agosto próximo, las AFP recibirán las solicitudes de retiro que se realicen de manera remota, es decir, a través del banner o aplicación tecnológica especial que cada administradora tiene en su respectivo sitio web.

www.t13.cl

It MIGHT extend, but, I don't know

Lol holy crap what stupidity. Goodluck to anyone not doing it before then. Call centers on hold for 5 hours or in person and 12 hour lineups.

LunaSerena · Jul 30, 2020

Wait, until sunday? How can they be so goddamed incompetent? Sigh.... I was planning on waiting a month to make sure all the issues were ironed out, but guess I'll have to do it before sunday. No way I'm going to an office.

Agni Kai · Jul 30, 2020

Completely unrelated, but my PS4 hard drive has finally perished. It won't let me download games. Just wanted to share my sorrow.

Javier · Jul 30, 2020

Agni Kai said:
Completely unrelated, but my PS4 hard drive has finally perished. It won't let me download games. Just wanted to share my sorrow.

Just in time for a ps5 then!

sorry for your loss

criesofthepast · Jul 30, 2020

LunaSerena said:
Wait, until sunday? How can they be so goddamed incompetent? Sigh.... I was planning on waiting a month to make sure all the issues were ironed out, but guess I'll have to do it before sunday. No way I'm going to an office.

I gotta think they aren't that inept and will extend the time you can do the tramite online. But who knows.

I just decided to do mine online without issue. Made me realize something though - I never chose PlanVital as my AFP. Is that the "default" AFP you get put into when you get your first job for all chileans? Or was it chosen by my first employer? I have no complaints and their website is very functional the times I've used it but was just curious how that happened. I have no idea if its a "good" AFP or what sets one apart from another either (fees, ROI etc).

Javier · Jul 30, 2020

I ended up doing mine through sms, at least now i have an request number.

jnWake · Jul 30, 2020

criesofthepast said:
I just decided to do mine online without issue. Made me realize something though - I never chose PlanVital as my AFP. Is that the "default" AFP you get put into when you get your first job for all chileans? Or was it chosen by my first employer? I have no complaints and their website is very functional the times I've used it but was just curious how that happened. I have no idea if its a "good" AFP or what sets one apart from another either (fees, ROI etc).

Claro, en tu primer trabajo te ponen en una AFP que es determinada por licitación (en general es la de comisión más baja). En los últimos años ha sido PlanVital pero antes fue AFP Modelo.

(No lo puse en inglés porque no sé traducir licitación jaja)

criesofthepast · Jul 30, 2020

jnWake said:
Claro, en tu primer trabajo te ponen en una AFP que es determinada por licitación (en general es la de comisión más baja). En los últimos años ha sido PlanVital pero antes fue AFP Modelo.

(No lo puse en inglés porque no sé traducir licitación jaja)

I think licitación means "bidding" but I don't think it translates to english well in this context. "They put you in an AFP determined by bidding."

Makes no sense to me lol

But ok yeah so they put you in the cheapest AFP basically. I get that.

Agni Kai · Jul 30, 2020

Just completed the process. It took me 5 minutes. Legit.

Serpens007 · Jul 30, 2020

I guess an option is to transfer it to the cuenta 2 but I really need to investigate more how it works. I know it's a good option to keep the money saving and moving for retirement, but you can make 24 withdrawals of money there so it's the middle point. The problem is that it can go up. but also down

So I, like, don't know what to do really. I want the money but I didn't want to take it out just yet.

ChileERA | OT | - No ERAmos tan weones... LO SOMOS

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Deleted member 4783

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