I appreciate Charisma speaking out on this. I found her tweets informative and moving.
I would love Ray to be just as forthcoming with his experiences.
I would love Ray to be just as forthcoming with his experiences.
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Charisma Carpenter Gives Lengthy Details on How She was Abused by Joss Whedon
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
Between his own body of work as a writer, and stories from his ex-wife and Carpenter, the guy really does seem like he has manipulative, toxic, misogynistic tendencies, especially behind closed doors.
The unfortunate thing is that there are probably lots of private attitudes around pregnancy not just in the entertainment industry, but in the workforce in general that pregnancy is an inconvenience and "selfish" on the part of the women for getting in the way of productivity, which really is an attitude that needs to change in our society, but the way that Whedon behaves sounds like the worse parts of those impulses, like her getting pregnant is some kind of personal attack on him and his career.
Being an asshole doesn't suddenly deprive a person of their legal, creative and economic rights.
I'm so proud of her for finally speakng up. What Joss did was horrible. You could see it on her face when asked about it previously. I really hope she survives this and comes out stronger. That she feels guilt about Ray Fisher is fucked up on a level that's hard to quantify, especially because I completely understand. I hope she feels some sort of relief from this because she deserves it after all these years.
I was a fan of Angel back in the day but I came into the show pretty late. I just randomly started watching during S4, watched that and 5, and then it was over. (This was back when, unless you had tapes/dvds of past episodes, there was no way to just catch up, and you just started wherever you started.) So I only ever knew Cordelia as that character, wrapped up in whatever weird thing was going on with Connor and their pregnancy, and then being in a coma afterward. I had no idea of the change in her character from the first seasons to that, let alone the role that Carpenter's own pregnancy and Whedon's response to it played in the writing.
Good on her for speaking out. The way she and her character were treated was disgusting and it was clear Whedon was punishing her. I'll forever love her last episode but knowing how awful she was treated prior to that and how much Charisma loved playing Cordelia it feels shitty and Joss can go fuck off into the sun.
I think some others are starting to speak out too which is great.
I think some others are starting to speak out too which is great.
The slow realization that Whedon is and has always been a toxic person has been really difficult for me to come to terms with since Buffy/Angel/Firefly were such formative works to my own experience growing up. I still think that Buffy is an important work and has done a lot to move forward female action protagonists as well as evolve serialized storytelling on television in general, but you can see the problematic elements in that show clearly looking back today. I value what those shows were to me then, but they are a stepping stone for people to do even better now.
I'm so glad Charisma (and Amber too it looks like) could come forward with her experiences. It's important that they are heard and that we don't idolize creators no matter how much their work has influenced us.
I'm so glad Charisma (and Amber too it looks like) could come forward with her experiences. It's important that they are heard and that we don't idolize creators no matter how much their work has influenced us.
Exactly. She actually gave some information beyond "he was mean to me in unspecified ways."
I remember watching Buffy when the episode aired that killed off Tara. It came from nowhere and definitely the first 'bury your gays' incident that I witnessed in media. The entire series left a bad taste in my mouth after that.
Terrible to hear this, especially given these credible accounts.
Justice needs to be served.
Definitely thought it was just clumsy shit (which AoU has a lot of) but I mean, twice + more to seemingly come doesn't lend itself to being a coincidence. Poor form from him.
Justice needs to be served.
Definitely thought it was just clumsy shit (which AoU has a lot of) but I mean, twice + more to seemingly come doesn't lend itself to being a coincidence. Poor form from him.
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At times it sounds like she blames herself in part for what happened to Ray and others, and while I understand where those feelings come from, I hope she can come to the realization that this is all on Joss.
And I hope people realize Ray doesn't owe the public details. Those are his to share, and if he wants to only reveal them to investigators, etc, that's his place to do so. He was the victim. Speaking out at all has already cost him quite a bit.
And I hope people realize Ray doesn't owe the public details. Those are his to share, and if he wants to only reveal them to investigators, etc, that's his place to do so. He was the victim. Speaking out at all has already cost him quite a bit.
Good on Charisma to tell her tale, shitty that it comes with weight of her having to fear for her career.
Trail of shit has followed Whedon for years now, I remember there having been some reveals around Age of Ultron's release about what kind asshole of an person he is. Amazing he has managed to keep his career this long, he needs to go away.
Trail of shit has followed Whedon for years now, I remember there having been some reveals around Age of Ultron's release about what kind asshole of an person he is. Amazing he has managed to keep his career this long, he needs to go away.
Not as far as I know but she has replied to Charisma's Instagram post with the five heart emojis. Her character arc was strange because she was supposed to die at the end of Season 5 but was brought back for the final two seasons.
Not that I'm aware of.
But she did just comment in support of Carpenter on Instagram.
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also the same guy that made the same "joke" with flash and wonder woman in justice league
I haven't watched JL but isn't there an exact same scene w Flash and Diana
Did the exact same thing with flash and wonder woman in justice League.
Scratch a vocal self-proclaimed male feminist and find a misogynist. It's a never ending pattern.
Hope this means his career is finally over.
Hope this means his career is finally over.
Oh fuck that was him as well! Yeah! What the hell is wrong with this guy!?
He sucks, but most characters not Buffy also suck if you take them seriously. And even Buffy has her moments. Still, there's people who hate him the most, which I get, he's "real", vampires aren't.
Sorry to hear about all of this from Charisma, some stuff we had already heard about, she was fired in a very crappy way, but all the rest, oof.
Guess you need to be a star already if you want to work with Whedon and not get shit.
I still hate a lot of the buffy fandom for how Charisma was treated during Angel. The loser shippers bullied her because of the romance between her and Angel while the Whedon fans defended and excused the way she was written off as being "her fault for getting pregnant without telling Joss" and calling her a drug addict. There was a group of fans that knew he was punishing her for getting pregnant and defended her. I remember she kind of spoke up about it at the time but then retracted for obvious career reasons.
Also the way he treated her about gaining weight is so fucked when you look at David Boreanaz gaining a shit ton of weight during the final seasons of Angel and yet not a word about it. Whedon is just pure sexist trash.
Like I mentioned in my other post, You're Welcome was a wonderful episode that was actually true to her character despite the sad ending but looking back at her comments it's fucking evil that she asked Whedon not to kill Cordelia and he lied saying he wouldn't only to do it anyway.
Also the way he treated her about gaining weight is so fucked when you look at David Boreanaz gaining a shit ton of weight during the final seasons of Angel and yet not a word about it. Whedon is just pure sexist trash.
Like I mentioned in my other post, You're Welcome was a wonderful episode that was actually true to her character despite the sad ending but looking back at her comments it's fucking evil that she asked Whedon not to kill Cordelia and he lied saying he wouldn't only to do it anyway.
I used to love Xander but rewatching the series and it's very clear he is a whiny sexist entitled asshole throughout the show. He is awful to so many women and it connects with Joss Whedons views.
This is not the take away.
She is speaking out because Warner killed the story and moved on without holding anyone accountable and discrediting the victims that spoke out.
Yes, and Whedon was so insistent on the gag that he filmed it with a body double when Gal Godot refused to shoot the scene.
wild that joss whedon was once celebrated online for being like a hollywood good guy and "ally", dude always came off as a weirdo to me
The Red Room (the organization you are referring to) has been a thing for a long time in the comics and involves biochemical enhancements in order to create super soldiers. I cannot quite remember if sterilization was a part of that from comics or not, since its been awhile since I've read that story arc.
So that might not have been from Whedon at all.
With that said: HOW it was written, shot and everything else is absolutely on him, and that was more so the problem with those scenes.
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Xander is by far the worst outside of Willow season 6
And Xander is only not worse than that because he never got power.
Give him Willow's power and you'd see how bad Xander really is
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To me, the point of that scene was not that Natasha is a monster because she cannot have kids, but that the ability to have kids was taken from her in the Red Room's molding of her into a monster (i.e. assassin). She brings it up to empathize with Banner, who starts the convo by calling himself a monster and acknowledging that his monstrousness makes him unable to have a future as a romantic partner, including the ability to have kids. So the "Black Widow is a monster because she can't get pregnant" stuff always struck me as an overblown and wrong way to read that scene. But obviously how he treated Carpenter regarding her pregnancy certainly colors that story beat differently. Dude clearly has some possessive hang-up about pregnant women.
