Characters Who Writers Want You To Sympathize With/Root For (and fail)

[FFNB]

"Look what you made me do by not telling me information im not entitled to" is certainly a take.

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Lol right?

I really liked how Rian exposes the "hotshot maverick who defies his superiors because he's high on his own supply" archetype for how dangerous it actually is. As audiences, we're conditioned to idolize that type of brash recklessness, but he had literally just gotten dozens of soldiers killed, and lost them vital ships that they couldn't just replace like it was nothing. He cost them dearly because of his actions, got demoted, then caused even more loss by creating a mini-mutiny.

I really like Poe, and I loved his arc in TLJ. In any other movie/show, his actions would have been framed as being right, and he was a hero. He wasn't entitled to an explanation. It was his job to follow orders and respect that his commanding officers knew what they were doing.

 

[rashbeep]

Mandalorian and every side character

 

[sirap]

Everyone in Pocahontas 2.

 

[Ithil]

Lol really? I feel just the opposite. Never understood how they can't just TALK about their plans and because of that it leads to Poe doing what he did.

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Why was he entitled to know the plans of his bosses instead of following orders? Put aside that he's a main character and imagine if it was just some random captain who just got demoted for ignoring orders and costing dozens of lives. Would you be demanding they be let in on the loop of the leaders?

 

[Ithil]

Mandalorian and every side character

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Lots of side characters in the show are villains, not intended to be even slightly sympathetic. You're going to have to be more specific.

 

[TyraZaurus]

If you're going to explore the idea that Megatron could be redeemed, you have to leave the possibility open, and part of that is giving the impression that the mutineers are irrational or bad, even though their actions are clearly rational and entirely understandable. But the end of the story clearly indicates the answer is "no." Even the supposedly sympathetic panel of the blue flowers isn't that. It's not to make you feel sorry for Megatron. It's to dramatically present the impossibility of what Megatron wants. Roberts is doing a lot of subtle stuff with Megatron's arc in MTMTE, to the point that it's easily and regularly misinterpreted. Megatron is not redeemable, but that doesn't mean a story exploring the idea that he could be is somehow impossible to tell. But if you think Roberts believes Megatron is worthy of redemption you haven't read the ending correctly.

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I'm not really convinced, and telling me it's "subtle" and "you read it wrong" isn't exactly gonna encourage me to consider your viewpoint and implies there's only a single correct way to read a text. I'm not the only person whose had this reaction, either, so to a point, it's the writer's responsibility whether he effectively conveyed his viewpoints or not.

Regardless, the majority of anti-Megatron sentiment is embodied in Getaway, who is a groomer and a selfish lying asshole who is shown to use a combination of manipulation, dishonesty, and MIND control to get people on his side. That's not just "presenting the possibility" they're wrong, it's reducing the majority of the crew to ciphers and giving any substantial argument that Megatron Is Bad to the lying, murderous, Tailgate-grooming guy who quotes Trump and Tories; Megatron's crimes are talked about, but never given the same kind of impact present day events have, because they fall into the area of ancient history or "a million is a statistic".

 

[Beren]

Lana Lang from Smallville, for a few different reasons.

The first was that the creators absolutely loved the character they created (they auditioned actresses for the role before auditioning for Clark Kent), and then loved the actress they cast, so they wanted her to do interesting things no matter what. This led to Lana being everywhere and doing things she'd never done before just to have her around. Over the course of the show she was: head cheerleader, barista (which she failed at, leading to...), managing a coffee shop as a sophomore, artist, equestrian, witch, Charity Foundation founder and CEO, corporate schemer, thief, and finally toxic superhero. She also ended up making out with three Superman supervillains, and was in relationships with two of them. She was consistently shown to be a terrible judge of character, and after a few seasons most of the audience just wanted her gone. But the creators loved her and refused to write her off. When the actress left the show, the creators immediately announced they were leaving, too. It was fucking bizarre.

Also, Chloe Sullivan from the same show towards the end. She got more and more violent and manipulative, and we were supposed to root for her. After a certain point it just became near impossible.

 

[rashbeep]

Lots of side characters in the show are villains, not intended to be even slightly sympathetic. You're going to have to be more specific.

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Ok the robot and the ugnaught come to mind

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Ok the robot and the ugnaught come to mind

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How dare you

 

[Sean C.]

Lol right?

I really liked how Rian exposes the "hotshot maverick who defies his superiors because he's high on his own supply" archetype for how dangerous it actually is. As audiences, we're conditioned to idolize that type of brash recklessness, but he had literally just gotten dozens of soldiers killed, and lost them vital ships that they couldn't just replace like it was nothing. He cost them dearly because of his actions, got demoted, then caused even more loss by creating a mini-mutiny.

I really like Poe, and I loved his arc in TLJ. In any other movie/show, his actions would have been framed as being right, and he was a hero. He wasn't entitled to an explanation. It was his job to follow orders and respect that his commanding officers knew what they were doing.

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The problem with that arc is that Poe then faces no consequences for his actions, and in fact is basically promoted by the end of it; nor does the scale of the losses he's responsible for ever really come home in the narrative, probably precisely because it would make any future role for him in the movies unworkable. So you've got an arc that requires you to assume the Rebellion runs like a "real military", but with an ending that requires the opposite (and also hinges on supposedly demonstrating character growth that doesn't actually square with the scenario, but that's an unrelated issue).

 

[djinn]

Oh man. Lol

For me, he was like that since the first book and never got better, and it was such a turn off for me. I think it's fine to have a character like that, but it seemed clear to me that the readers were supposed to root for him and cheer him on, but he was I sufferable me.

Like, in You, Joe is an awful person, and you aren't supposed to like him or root for him. Empathize in some ways, sure, but he's not hero or lovelorn tragic figure. He's a manipulative sociopath.

I initially felt that way about Walter White, and I couldn't stand him. Then I realized we weren't supposed to be rooting for him to succeed, and he was truly a villain, not a hero. Then I got sucked into the show. That was an initial error on my part, but to be fair, I didn't start watching it until it was on streaming, and everyone was saying how awesome he was, and how they wanted him to win. I felt like I was watching a different show. Lol. I was like, "you're rooting for this guy? He's a monster!"

Such a great show, and I think it executed the "good" guy gone bad archetype incredibly well.

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Oof, fair enough 😂

 

[Mendrox]

That's exactly it, their deaths were entirely on his pride. Seta is a jackass.

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Well that is the point. The whole thing about Japanese and their pride (which was even worse in WWII, people throwing themselves over cliffs and all because they thought they would get captured by the enemies for example).

 

[BebopCola]

The problem with that arc is that Poe then faces no consequences for his actions, and in fact is basically promoted by the end of it; nor does the scale of the losses he's responsible for ever really come home in the narrative, probably precisely because it would make any future role for him in the movies unworkable. So you've got an arc that requires you to assume the Rebellion runs like a "real military", but with an ending that requires the opposite (and also hinges on supposedly demonstrating character growth that doesn't actually square with the scenario, but that's an unrelated issue).

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Poe graduated from the Zapp Brannigan OCS where you get promoted after enough superiors die, no matter how many of your own men die in the carpet bombing of Eden 7

 

[Alice]

Well that is the point. The whole thing about Japanese and their pride (which was even worse in WWII, people throwing themselves over cliffs and all because they thought they would get captured by the enemies for example).

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The point was also to make you feel sorry for Seta, which failed for me, which is why I listed it in this thread. <shrug>

 

[Maledict]

Lol right?

I really liked how Rian exposes the "hotshot maverick who defies his superiors because he's high on his own supply" archetype for how dangerous it actually is. As audiences, we're conditioned to idolize that type of brash recklessness, but he had literally just gotten dozens of soldiers killed, and lost them vital ships that they couldn't just replace like it was nothing. He cost them dearly because of his actions, got demoted, then caused even more loss by creating a mini-mutiny.

I really like Poe, and I loved his arc in TLJ. In any other movie/show, his actions would have been framed as being right, and he was a hero. He wasn't entitled to an explanation. It was his job to follow orders and respect that his commanding officers knew what they were doing.

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Which would have been a great and interesting take, if they hadn't ended on exactly the opposite message. His arc was fab right up until that point, at which it suddenly turned tail and ran terrified.

seriously, he's directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people and there's not a hint of remorse from him, and his commanders comment on how much they are growing to like him.

 

[Sephzilla]

Vic Van Lier in NBA 2k16

 

[Mendrox]

The point was also to make you feel sorry for Seta, which failed for me, which is why I listed it in this thread. <shrug>

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I mean the movie was made with that intend that Seiiiita (btw.) is at fault for his sisters death. The book was also written because of that. The author regrets it himself so there is that too, but that doesn't mean that we are suppose to root for him at all?

Isao Takahata said that he was compelled to film the short story after seeing how the main character, Seita, "was a unique wartime ninth grader." Takahata explained that any wartime story, whether animated or not animated, "tends to be moving and tear-jerking," and that young people develop an "inferiority complex" where they perceive people in wartime eras as being more noble and more able than they are, and therefore the audience believes that the story has nothing to do with them.

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I mean yes he made some stupid decisions and because of you I rewatched the first half of the movie and also noticed that the aunt uses both of them too. Also with the aunt there are a few moments while the children are living with their aunt which you see the aunt nibbling extra rice of the side or eating the rice at the bottom of the pot. She also appears to just using Seita for the rations he is able to get. It makes her appear to be an ungenuine considering she spends a lot of time talking about the scarcity of food.

I don't know, I don't think he counts as a jackass.

 

[Saikyo]

Reminder that the problem is not with Shinji, it's with you

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But Shinji is a asshole...

Spoiler

fine, wrong shinji...

 

[HardRojo]

Mikasa in SnK. She's given a tragic background and she's always suffering, but I can't bring myself to giving a single shit about her because she's such a one dimensional character, with no personality whatsoever who simply was given plot armor and fighting capabilities for no reason, and not only that, there's her bloodline too, but I won't get into spoiler territory.

 

[Lagamorph]

Reminder that the problem is not with Shinji, it's with you

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So Shinji wanks one out over a girl in a coma after ripping open her shirt but somehow I'm the one with the problem?