Characters Who Writers Want You To Sympathize With/Root For (and fail)

[Alice]

It's not fair when the OP ends the thread in his own post.

I guess I'll add Seta from Hotaru no Haka/Grave of the Fireflies. He's just an asshole who gets his sister killed. Not to mention that the novel version of him was an even worse person. Yet we're supposed to feel sad for what happens to him.

 

[Motorcycle Dork]

Curious on your reasoning

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Too lazy to write a huge passage of text, so I sum up the main reasons.

• Overpowered character that underutilise her abilities and brain.
• Passive-aggressive, stirs up drama, egoistical etc. Humans are not flawless but Korra is just a terrible being in general. There is no ounce of self-reflection of her bad traits. Book 3 onwards don't count as she relapses, and her self-reflection is just a sympathy bucket for her self-loathing, "why can't I be a good avatar".
• Lousy character development, actually where was the development? All throughout she continues to commit stupid mistakes again and again. And when things go sour, somewhere or somehow she is gifted deus ex machinas to 'save the day'!

There ya go

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

Too lazy to write a huge passage of text, so I sum up the main reasons.

• Overpowered character that underutilise her abilities and brain.
• Passive-aggressive, stirs up drama, egoistical etc. Humans are not flawless but Korra is just a terrible being in general. There is no ounce of self-reflection of her bad traits. Book 3 onwards don't count as she relapses, and her self-reflection is just a sympathy bucket for her self-loathing, "why can't I be a good avatar".
• Lousy character development, actually where was the development? All throughout she continues to commit stupid mistakes again and again. And when things go sour, somewhere or somehow she is gifted deus ex machinas to 'save the day'!

There ya go

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My mistake, i was referring to the Phantom Theives

 

[spineduke]

I guess I'll add Seta from Hotaru no Haka/Grave of the Fireflies. He's just an asshole who gets his sister killed. Not to mention that the novel version of him was an even worse person. Yet we're supposed to feel sad for what happens to him.

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This doesn't make much sense, what do you mean he's an asshole? Talking about the movie version.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

If Riku in Kingdom Hearts didn't exist I might agree, but Riku is pretty clearly what they were trying to go for and they fucked it up

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I don't think that's what Kishimoto was going for though. Riku spends most of his story as a hero. Sasuke spends most of his story as a villain.

He literally gets off with all the bad shit he did at the end because he's mates with both Kakashi and Naruto. The fact the series is mostly shown from Naruto's perspective of the world means that the fact that Naruto constantly stands by the idea that he just needs to fight/talk to Sasuke and everything will be fine and dandy and this then literally becomes reality absolutely makes it clear that Naruto's naive view about his friend who was basically a straight up super villian was actually still a good dude deep down is the one we are meant to believe

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Sasuke didn't really do that many bad things. The worst things he did were against were kill some samurai guards which is peanuts compared to what the Raikage did which is literally murder Neji's father and try to kidnap Hinata.

Everything else is Sasuke attempting to murder Kakashi, Sakura and Naruto but they love him so much that they don't care.

Besides, he still saved the world and did way more good than bad overall.

Like...if Oro and Kabuto get to go free then I don't have an issue with Sasuke going free especially since he's trying to atone especially by willfully choosing not to replace his arm.

 

[skeezx]

These two fuckers from season 1 of The Man in the High Castle.

She completely ruins her boyfriend's life because she's horny for the nazi spy. The entire season is nonstop selfish acts from those two and then it ends with the showrunners thinking I'd be sympathetic for them and would wish to see them succeed in season 2. No, fuck them. They're awful people.

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damn, i didn't expect such a hard agree as one of the first responses (rather than combing through 5 pages of anime stuff)

i don't think i ever gave up on an otherwise okay-ish show for sheer characterization, but i just couldn't stomach my way past season 3

 

[Protoman200X]

Why am I supposed to root for this abusive fuckwit and heavily implied rapist who tortured his own family for decades because he suddenly decided one day he wants to be a good father.

Say what you want about Bakugou, and I'm not going to defend the shitty slapstick or Deku being buddy-buddy with him so fast, but, like, he's a 16 year-old kid with genuine anger and anxiety issues who never got the help he needed because he was talented and smart so the adults around him ignored his mental health and reenforced his problematic behaviour. Which is...kind of what happens in real life. And, while you might not sympathize with that, it at least makes logical sense to rehabilitate at-risk youth through positive reinforcement rather than punishing them for being a dick in middle school.

Endeavour is much more of a spotlight stealing creator's pet. Deku growth as a character has been completely sidelined since the Gentle arc outside a pointless power-up just so the manga can focus on Endeavour, his family, and Shouto having zero personality outside his relationship to him.

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Agreed with you on your thoughts about Bakugou & especially Endeavour.

Even if he utters sincere words of apology (filled with regret, self-reflection, & sorrow) for reconciliation what he did to Shoto and the rest of his strained family, he cannot be redeemed. Endeavour didn't just burn bridges, he incinerated them (ironic) with his single-minded goal of being the superior hero to All Might. The domestic violence, the physical and mental abuse, all the things he did to his family aren't something that can be taken back so easily, & it's a case of being too little too late.

Whatever Endeavor does will never undo the damage. If anything, he will eventually pay for his mistakes, whether that is with his life or in another fashion that will ruin his career I don't know. What I do know is I doubt he'll ever manage to fully make amends.

In any case, a happy ending for Endeavor's story seems unlikely.

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

1. "Everymen" characters who are are very sleazy, sexist and don't do much but yet we're expected like them, want to "get the girl" and save the day, this is especially more infurriating when the the women is way more qualified then them and should logically be the hero but because of BS prophesies, circumstance and just bad writing, they aren't and become damselled usually.
2. For villains/Bullies that never actually try to do right on their victims, never actually try to even apologies but automatically expects people to forget what they did and never call them out because "They change". This is especially hurtful when the victims is vilified for not forgiving them or becomes evil to justify the former villains/Bullies actions. This is flat out dangerous writing because of real world implication and what it encourages.

How many times have we seen women called out for being worried around someone with a history of abusing women, or victims of assault (physical and sexual) and heavy bullying vilified for not accepting their abusers apology or accepting "they changed"? Tons it happens all the time. These type of characters in fiction encourage real world victim blaming and it's a trope I flat out depise and should be called whenever it happens, I want writes flat asked WHY they feel the need to do and asked if they ever think of the real implications of what their writing.

3. I really do not like him (a reminder that he tried to hit on his students when he was at the university at the beginning):

 

[Persephone]

Dean Winchester and Lucifer in Supernatural.

Dean is a "good guy" who's a misogynistic creep, a hypocrite, and verbally and physically abusive to the people he supposedly cares about, yet the show presents him as the ultimate arbiter of moral authority who is righteous and pure and can do no wrong. He tricks his brother into getting possessed by an angel despite knowing Sam would never agree to that, completely violating his free will and bodily autonomy (and this in turn leads to the death of one of their friends) then refuses to take responsibility for it, just crying self-pityingly about how he's "poison". Sam is presented as being in the wrong for not forgiving Dean. He murders a kid's mother for being a "monster" in front of the kid. He verbally beats down Sam to the point of being suicidal in season 8, blaming him for every bad thing that's ever happened, including things that couldn't possibly be Sam's fault, then acts baffled that Sam thinks Dean hates him and wants to die. He threatens to kill Jack to the point of Jack self-harming by stabbing himself repeatedly, but then we're told he's "done more for Jack than anyone else" despite Sam and Castiel being the ones who've actually cared for the kid to the point where Jack refers to Castiel as his father.

Lucifer meanwhile started as a fairly compelling villain, until the writers decided that attempting to redeem the guy who tortured and raped one of the main characters for over a hundred years was a great idea. Also Mark Pellegrino is a piece of shit and I hate his stupid face.

 

[Vitet]

Poe in TLJ

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Lol really? I feel just the opposite. Never understood how they can't just TALK about their plans and because of that it leads to Poe doing what he did.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

I know some pepole may disagree but a lot of charcters voiced by Chris Pratt. I know Chris Patt is a good actor but a lot of the charcters he voices/acts are just not likeable

 

[Jimnymebob]

It's not fair when the OP ends the thread in his own post.

I guess I'll add Seta from Hotaru no Haka/Grave of the Fireflies. He's just an asshole who gets his sister killed. Not to mention that the novel version of him was an even worse person. Yet we're supposed to feel sad for what happens to him.

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Thank you!
That's the main reason Grave of the Fireflies never really got to me that much, because I couldn't sympathize with Seita.

 

[Aine]

Hard to find anyone on RWBY who's sympathetic and still living.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Lol really? I feel just the opposite. Never understood how they can't just TALK about their plans and because of that it leads to Poe doing what he did.

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"Look what you made me do by not telling me information im not entitled to" is certainly a take.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

Hard to find anyone on RWBY who's sympathetic and still living.

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Do you consider General Ironwood to be symphathetic?

 

[Yata]

I think nothing can beat Akechi from Persona 5 and Chloe from Life is Strange in this.

 

[caliph95]

Star and Marco from Star vs the Forces of Evil after a point

They're shitty people and given the finale is framed around them getting together as a couple (after teasing this development for like 3 seasons) it was hard to really give a shit for them when it involved performing mass genocide and leaving everyone in the worst situation possible (which is unambiguously framed as a good thing)

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Somehow the lesson isn't that magic shouldn't be monopolized to one family but instead no one should get it and fuck the people who were created by magic Hekapoo says she doesn't care

 

[Motorcycle Dork]

Curious on your reasoning

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Oh crap, I missed out the Phantom Thieves in bold.

Ahhhhh, it will be a long rant. So I try to sum it up.

They're poorly written characters! Simple as that.

Spoiler

Yusuke and Haru are an exception, but I feel Haru dumb down when Akechi arrived, like fuck that guy.

I did sympathise for the PTs in the very start of the game, but after the 1st palace most of them became so unlikable. Like Ruyji is a mix bag. He has commendable traits, being a courageous and self-less bro, but there's nothing going on for him further. It's as if his sole purpose was to be the butt of a joke.

He has a sympathetic backstory that many could relate to (abusive father, single mother, delinquent stigma). Nothing is explored there. No it's just him "Waaa adults bad waaa". After halfway through the story he becomes really toxic, deluded with fame and ego, wasted opportunity that he should've been the one to leave the PTs and become the "rival character", considering how he is constantly mistreated and has a better motive. similar to Korra, he acknowledges the damage but relapses. His confidant arc is great but compare himself in the main story, they're like two different people.

Then you have Makoto which I can't see the appeal of if I am being honest. I couldn't sympathise for her issues because I mostly think they're minor. I don't understand how she fits in with the PTs, she doesn't seem outcasted to me. What did society do wrong for her?

And Akechi is well...Akechi. Pretty much what others had stated. Sure he had a shit childhood, but does it give him the right to murder innocent people? Compare him to the likes of Reiji Kandori who shares a similar backstory, he ain't psycho. Overall Akechi is bland and predictable.

Can't be asked to talk about the rest. It be too long.

Moving forward to meta reasons to why I dislike the PTs.

They're self-righteous morons. They think they're doing greater good for society but in actuality they impose their own ideology of justice. Isn't it a contradiction how Makoto utters "Having the freedom to not make your own decisions only means that someone else is controlling you! "...wow you don't say? Like what have you guys been doing all this time?

Then there's a lack of originality. Nearly all of the Phantom Thieves are copied and pasted versions of characters from older Atlus games who cares about the old games they don't exist I'mma right? Inspiration is one thing but rehashing is another.

Honestly, I don't think the creators had young people's interests at heart. To me, they did the whole "address society injustice" as a selling point to get the gold.

 

[Punchline]

Somehow the lesson isn't that magic shouldn't be monopolized to one family but instead no one should get it and fuck the people who were created by magic Hekapoo says she doesn't care

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Aint that great tho? Star and Marco got together for a grand total of like 35 minutes :)
</s>
I have sincerely no idea how anyone could like that ending. It's such a bizarre downer and while i wasnt attached to Star or Marco by the end, the rest of the cast was good so to see it fall so low is sad.

 

[Alice]

This doesn't make much sense, what do you mean he's an asshole? Talking about the movie version.

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You're seriously asking that? Declining all help and safe shelter from adults over his fucking pride, and secluding himself and his sister in their "own little world", eventually leading to both of them dying miserably? Seta is an absolute shithead.

And in the novel he has sexual feelings for his kid sister.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

1st season, yes I sympathised with her. 2nd season where she's just a psycho? nope.

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Yep. She sucks now.

This clown, Goro Akechi, from Persona 5. Some people actually sympathize with this fool but I can't stand him. Murders the father of one of your companions, tries to expose and murder the Phantom Thieves, and does a bunch of other stuff behind the scenes. His reason? He just wanted to be acknowledged by his deadbeat dad.

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And fuck this piece of shit too.

 

[TheMango55]

Lol really? I feel just the opposite. Never understood how they can't just TALK about their plans and because of that it leads to Poe doing what he did.

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As far as anyone in the Resistance knew, tracking someone through hyperspace was impossible.

They probably deemed it likely there was a mole.

 

[Volimar]

In Jeepers Creepers I found the brother and sister insufferable. I was cheering for the demon to kill them both.

Also Mark Pellegrino is a piece of shit and I hate his stupid face.

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Why is he a piece of shit?

 

[Kain]

Kvothe from the Name of the Wind series.

Prick.

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I liked him well enough in the first book but by the end of the second I couldn't care less what his famous "reason" for turning the way he is now, he's a douche. Fuck Kvothe

 

[spineduke]

You're seriously asking that? Declining all help and safe shelter from adults over his fucking pride, and secluding himself and his sister in their "own little world", eventually leading to both of them dying miserably? Seta is an absolute shithead.

And in the novel he has sexual feelings for his kid sister.

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I don't remember the events that well, but I do remember that awful aunt that they were staying at.

And he is still just a kid. He'll make bad decisions, not fully understand the impact of his actions and so on. Naive and not forward thinking perhaps, a shithead? ehhh

 

[Alice]

I don't remember the events that well, but I do remember that awful aunt that they were staying at.

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She wasn't awful. It was Seta who was awful and absolutely unreasonable. It was Seta, who in times of absolute crisis, always put himself to the upmost priority, and he drove his sister to death with his self important attitude.

 

[spineduke]

She wasn't awful. It was Seta who was awful and absolutely unreasonable. It was Seta, who in times of absolute crisis, always put himself to the upmost priority, and he drove his sister to death with his self important attitude.

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I should rewatch the film. That said, the film makes no pretense to the failings of Seita. I find it hard to think of him as some asshole though - at the end he's still a child who has limited understanding of the machinations of the world. So I can be frustrated and sympathetic to their plight at the same time.

 

[Lagamorph]

I know the OP mentions her, but Chloe from Life is Strange. Fuck that bitch.

The instant she wanted me to take the blame for her drug use in her house to her step father I stopped giving a shit about her whatsoever and couldn't understand why Max wanted anything more to do with her.

Sacrificing her for the town was a no brainer and the easiest decision in that game, there wasn't even a moments hesitation on that one.

 

[Alice]

I should rewatch the film. That said, the film makes no pretense to the failings of Seita. I find it hard to think of him as some asshole though - at the end he's still a child who has limited understanding of the machinations of the world. So I can be frustrated and sympathetic to their plight at the same time.

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He's a child who drove his kid sister to death because he's too far up his own ass to actually listen to grownups for once. He's not at all sympathetic. The novel makes this a lot clearer since there's a lot of incestual and possessive subtext from him about his sister. The movie fortunately just kept the assholish pigheadedness.

 

[____]

Nacho is great :/

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I don't mind Michael Mando's acting in the show, but I never root for Nacho the character. It's like for whatever reason, I can only imagine him being a backstabbing snake that can't be trusted. The only empathy I have for him is I wish they would leave his poor papa alone, but man I can't stand Nacho himself. I look at it as a testament to his acting prowess; however, I feel completely opposite about Tom Haverford. I hate everything about the character and the actor's portrayal of him.

 

[Deleted member 4353]

Chloe from Life is Strange. She can seriously go screw herself as she's so freaking terrible. I sympathized more with freaking Nathan that douche than Chloe.

 

[spineduke]

He's a child who drove his kid sister to death because he's too far up his own ass to actually listen to grownups for once. He's not at all sympathetic. The novel makes this a lot clearer since there's a lot of incestual and possessive subtext from him about his sister. The movie fortunately just kept the assholish pigheadedness.

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He's a child who had to grow up too quickly, without his parents. Even all the extra shit that the novel builds on sound very normal within the context of that. Noone to guide him on whats right or wrong, or how to let go of his teenage pride. Orphans are often the least emotionally equipped to negotiate and cope with the challenges of life. You see assholish behavior, I see a poor kid who never got the chance to learn how to grow up. Reminds me of a time I had to organize a frisbee game between two teams of kids, one of them orphans, the other from a school. You could immediately see how the orphans would argue and fight amongst themselves during the game. Doesn't make them more asshol-ish, they just never had the role models to guide them and teach them how to communicate and cope.

 

[Alice]

He's a child who had to grow up too quickly, without his parents. Even all the extra shit that the novel builds on sound very normal within the context of that. Noone to guide him on whats right or wrong, or how to let go of his teenage pride. Orphans are often the least emotionally equipped to negotiate and cope with the challenges of life. You see assholish behavior, I see a poor kid who never got the chance to learn how to grow up. Reminds me of a time I had to organize a frisbee game between two teams of kids, one of them orphans, the other from a school. You could immediately see how the orphans would argue and fight amongst themselves during the game. Doesn't make them more asshol-ish, they just never had the role models to guide them and teach them how to communicate and cope.

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That doesn't make him relatable at all. Especially not since he gets his sister killed. He didn't grow up at all. And he was goddamn old enough to be properly socialized. He's a teenager.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Chloe from Life is Strange. She can seriously go screw herself as she's so freaking terrible. I sympathized more with freaking Nathan that douche than Chloe.

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Yeah, Chloe is terrible. She's also a walking Darwin Award.

3. I really do not like him (a reminder that he tried to hit on his students when he was at the university at the beginning):

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Venkman's the kind of asshole who brings Thorazine with him on a date.

 

[Rackham]

Crowley from Supernatural. Dude killed loads of people and the writers loved the actor so much they decided to keep him around by trying to make him sympathetic. The best part of his character was when they gave him some humanity back and he was forced to reflect on all his evil doings but they didn't keep that around for long. I hated when he became part of the main cast. I just never understood how the writers felt that would be ok. Dude snapped an innocent girls neck in front of everyone because Sam and Dean ran away.

hen he even gets a main part in the new BNHA movie 2 which I won't spoil but its dumb as shit imo.

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is the movie good? Thinking of seeing it tonight.

 

[RedHoodedOwl]

The Halliwell sisters from the original Charmed

 

[caliph95]

The Halliwell sisters from the original Charmed

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Sorry the innocents can go fuck themselves The charmed ones are looking for boyfriends

 

[RedHoodedOwl]

Sorry the innocents can go fuck themselves The charmed ones are looking for boyfriends

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The final season acknowledged that they're selfish and apathetic about saving lives.

 

[caliph95]

The final season acknowledged that they're selfish and apathetic about saving lives.

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I only watched Lupa recap but weren't they also scolding penny from big bang for caring too much

 

[Deleted member 42102]

 

[RedHoodedOwl]

I only watched Lupa recap but weren't they also scolding penny from big bang for caring too much

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Yup. They treated Billy like an intern.

 

[DPT120]

OP, you mentioned Sasuke already so I'm going to say Bakugo.

 

[Mendrox]

You're seriously asking that? Declining all help and safe shelter from adults over his fucking pride, and secluding himself and his sister in their "own little world", eventually leading to both of them dying miserably? Seta is an absolute shithead.

And in the novel he has sexual feelings for his kid sister.

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Eh I've read the german translated novel and don't remember that at all (but it was so long ago so could be that I just forgot). In regards to the movie, well he is just a kid and tries to hold up his dead fathers pride. Of course he could have stayed with his aunt at first, but her telling him that he should go to school even though the school is burned down or letting him go to the military even though he is too young...well and then you have the japanese pride which was a great showcase how that fucks people up at the end. Also is only 14 years old and has no way of guidance anymore.

The part where you can really get angry is him going swimming when they stayed at their aunts (and not doing other shit other than reading magazines) and the most baffling part...getting money only when his sister was at deaths door like wtf. He had the means to get food all the time and started when it was too late.

That doesn't make him relatable at all. Especially not since he gets his sister killed. He didn't grow up at all. And he was goddamn old enough to be properly socialized. He's a teenager.

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Yeah tell that to a 14 year old kid that lost everything.

 

[Deleted member 27246]

Rumple in Once Upon a Time is one of the most frustrating characters I've ever encountered.

Yes, he's mostly a villain, but the lengths he goes to are insane. He's killed hundreds, if not thousands. He's ruined the lives of hundreds. He's actively backstabbing his own friends and family constantly. He's a manipulative coward who cons his way into a dishonest, toxic marriage. He's always out for himself...

... Which is why it's frustrating that the main heroes KEEP GIVING HIM ANOTHER CHANCE, despite hundreds of years of history, both old and VERY recent, saying he really doesn't deserve it. The show paints him as an antagonist, but when it tries to make us sympathize with him time and again - his bad father, his strained marriage, his lost child, etc. - it never once feels like it succeeds at making the audience root for him - either to succeed or be redeemed.

I haven't finished the series, but I think I'm in the final season and he's still just as awful as he's always been, despite sad or sentimental music playing whenever he talks up wanting to reform.

Honestly, I wish they'd just let me love to hate him, because it never makes me hate to love him.

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Once Upon has this problem in general. Rumple is the worst, I agree.... but why is/was the Evil Queen forgiven? Or that green Witch?
That show is full with killers who don't even get a short jail sentence for all their crimes.

 

[Stinkles]

3. I really do not like him (a reminder that he tried to hit on his students when he was at the university at the beginning):

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That's unfair. Firstly, he was a pretty fraudulent professor so there's no real conflict of interest or power dynamic at play, intellectually and academically speaking.

Secondly, in the 1980s, hitting on students was extremely progressive and cool - so it's completely absurd to judge 20th century ethics with 21st century standards.

Thirdly, I got nothin.

 

[FFNB]

Yeah, arrogant!Rand is no fun but...

Spoiler: Rand's arc

by the point he starts acting like that he's genuinely insane. The glossary book notes that Rand's madness causes his arrogance and suspiciousness of others. He does get a whole lot better.

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Oh man. Lol

For me, he was like that since the first book and never got better, and it was such a turn off for me. I think it's fine to have a character like that, but it seemed clear to me that the readers were supposed to root for him and cheer him on, but he was I sufferable me.

Like, in You, Joe is an awful person, and you aren't supposed to like him or root for him. Empathize in some ways, sure, but he's not hero or lovelorn tragic figure. He's a manipulative sociopath.

I initially felt that way about Walter White, and I couldn't stand him. Then I realized we weren't supposed to be rooting for him to succeed, and he was truly a villain, not a hero. Then I got sucked into the show. That was an initial error on my part, but to be fair, I didn't start watching it until it was on streaming, and everyone was saying how awesome he was, and how they wanted him to win. I felt like I was watching a different show. Lol. I was like, "you're rooting for this guy? He's a monster!"

Such a great show, and I think it executed the "good" guy gone bad archetype incredibly well.

 

[Bigwombat]

3. I really do not like him (a reminder that he tried to hit on his students when he was at the university at the beginning):

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Guess you don't like this guy then:

Not liking Venkman? Sorry but go to exile Island.

 

[Alice]

Eh I've read the german translated novel and don't remember that at all (but it was so long ago so could be that I just forgot). In regards to the movie, well he is just a kid and tries to hold up his dead fathers pride. Of course he could have stayed with his aunt at first, but her telling him that he should go to school even though the school is burned down or letting him go to the military even though he is too young...well and then you have the japanese pride which was a great showcase how that fucks people up at the end. Also is only 14 years old and has no way of guidance anymore.

The part where you can really get angry is him going swimming when they stayed at their aunts (and not doing other shit other than reading magazines) and the most baffling part...getting money only when his sister was at deaths door like wtf. He had the means to get food all the time and started when it was too late.

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That's exactly it, their deaths were entirely on his pride. Seta is a jackass.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

Deckard in Blade Runner basically raping Rachel but being treated like a legend (especially in 2049) anyway comes to mind

 

[SugarNoodles]

Lol really? I feel just the opposite. Never understood how they can't just TALK about their plans and because of that it leads to Poe doing what he did.

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That was also silly but Poe disobeying orders and getting a bunch of people killed multiple times throughout the movie and then being rewarded with a leadership position because he had an idea to follow some crystal space foxes to safety really grated on me.