Changing the Republican Party

[RadzPrower]

The only way to change it is to excise the cancerous parts. You cannot convert. You cannot convince.

The only route to even a modicum of Republican redemption is a major fracture of the party.

 

[Pwnz]

I'm afraid it will take them failing to recapture trumpism for it to be dead.

If they care about long term, it's obvious they need to work on Hispanics and target Ohio and the old midwest blue wall states.

 

[Metallix87]

The only way to change it is to excise the cancerous parts. You cannot convert. You cannot convince.

The only route to even a modicum of Republican redemption is a major fracture of the party.

Click to shrink...

Essentially, that's what I am proposing. I'm saying there is now evidence that it would work, as well.

 

[Alucrid]

 

[Gwenpoolshark]

They are going to build their entire ideology on missing Trump in the same way that the democrats are identified with missing Obama. Nothing and no one is going to give them the feeling that Trump gave them. The GOP no longer cares about anything other than the affective economy that Trumpism circulates in.

 

[Nepenthe]

Just say straight out that you're for everyone's rights and freedoms

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Congrats, you automatically lost the Republican primary, because Republicans don't believe that black and brown people should have the same rights and freedoms that they enjoy.

 

[Deleted member 50374]

Watch as Trump runs as a third party and tries to manipulate voters from GOP to vote for him, fracturing it and essentially giving the dems power for the next 20 years

 

[Watchtower]

I definitely get the sentiment, that more people especially in center don't actually vibe with Republican policies but are simply on "the Republican team", but I don't know how you fix that. If that was actually a problem for them they wouldn't have voted for Trump this year in the droves that they did. That sort of change requires a slow bottom-up fixing, and while you're talking about sneaking progressives into the party said party is promoting Qanon supporters and internet trolls. Leadership's adapted, leadership is fine with this current direction and has doubled-down. How do you suppose you overcome that? You think the voters are that stupid that they can't spot a RINO?

 

[Elandyll]

We don't just need it to change in its current incarnation.
It needs to die.

The party of small government, fiscal responsibility and "freedom" / "anyone can make it here" has over the years been taken over by

- special interests focusing on profit at all cost, with "trickle down" pretense
- neocon warmongers
- racists & alt right
- xenophobes
- mysoginists
- anti poor
- evangelical extremists & apocalyptic extremists
- anti lgbtq
- anti science
- ...

This did not start under Trump, but he was the "sign", the almost prophet that all that had finally congealed and was now acceptable in its most disgusting forms.

The GOP needs to die and perhaps be reborn in some form as what it was originally intended to be, advocating State rights vs Federal gov, fiscal responsibility, and be pro small business and personal acountability rather than Wall Street and big biz.

Until then, while it is owned by the top .1%, evangelical extremists and Nazis, there is (should be) no hope for them.

 

[Metallix87]

Congrats, you automatically lost the Republican primary, because Republicans don't believe that black and brown people should have the same rights and freedoms that they enjoy.

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Again, as I stated to you or someone else earlier, you're boiling this down to "just give up". I'm not saying it's easy, or that success is guaranteed. I'm saying that this is the best path forward with regards to healing America as a country. If you want to be negative or pessimistic, I get that sentiment, but we have plenty of threads for that.

I definitely get the sentiment, that more people especially in center don't actually vibe with Republican policies but are simply on "the Republican team", but I don't know how you fix that. If that was actually a problem for them they wouldn't have voted for Trump this year in the droves that they did. That sort of change requires a slow bottom-up fixing, and while you're talking about sneaking progressives into the party said party is promoting Qanon supporters and internet trolls. Leadership's adapted, leadership is fine with this current direction and has doubled-down. How do you suppose you overcome that? You think the voters are that stupid that they can't spot a RINO?

Click to shrink...

I think it's likely easier for a RINO to win in a red state than an outright Democrat, even if the Democrat is more conservative / centrist than said RINO. I don't think it's a matter of the voters being stupid, I think they are likely open to some or most progressive ideals, but still want to vote Republican anyway.

 

[BossAttack]

No. Literally I am saying, just run as both a social AND economic progressive, but run as a Republican.

Again, we have, at the very least, some evidence from this election suggesting my thesis is correct. So no, there is no "Period".

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We don't. You have isolated economic policies, such as a minimum wage increase, and are using that to extrapolate that Republicans are just secret progressives but just don't like voting for the other team. It's nonsense, pure ridiculousness.

These people don't want abortion rights, LGBTQ equality, higher taxes on the wealthy, racial equality, environmental reform, etc. Instead, there are small economic issues that would primarily benefit them that they are willing to vote for on a state by state basis.

 

[daveo42]

To heal The US and "improve" the GOP, you have to root out systemic racism, educate those with racist tendencies on not only how racism has permeated through this country since before its founding, but the steps taking to maintain white supremacy and those long-term impacts of this ingrained racism, and you have to remove the mouthpieces propping up these racist, white nationalist agendas.

You also need to change the view on universal healthcare, free college, and major tax reform while removing the stigma of the term "socialism" from the minds of a massive portion of the population. Then there's how closely tied religion is into our political system and how that has driven people to the GOP in an effort of stripping rights from women and the LGBTQ+ community.

When 70mil+ people would vote for tyranny, there is no easy fix and I wish Biden godspeed on unification, that doesn't work if the other side doesn't want actually unify.

 

[Barzul]

Only thing I see coming out from this is you will see more embrace of black and hispanic candidates, they won't ditch Trumpism completely, although their hands may be forced. Trump may not play ball.

 

[RadzPrower]

- evangelical extremists

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I feel if you could excise this group from the Republican party, a lot of these other issues would whither and die. Not entirely and not all directly related to this group, but the domino effect could likely impact many or most of these issues.

I say this as someone who is still religious but did grow up in that sort of environment. This group is the one that is behind a number of the issues, but they're also heavily groomed to be sheep and will follow as well. Remove the sheep following blindly and it might mean the other issues cannot survive.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'm saying that this is the best path forward with regards to healing America as a country.

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You're the one making a claim, so prove it then.

Show me five Republicans that have ran on leftist/progressive ideals in a heavily red district between 2008 and 2020 and won.

If you can't find this modicum of proof, you can't claim your idea is the best idea.

 

[spookyduzt]

A positive change for the Republican Party would solely involve them all fucking off into the Sun.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

rder to heal America, we need to bring positive change to the Republican party.

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No we don't. I'm sorry but fuck them and fuck this shitty reach across the aisle bullshit.

 

[Thordinson]

Again, as I stated to you or someone else earlier, you're boiling this down to "just give up". I'm not saying it's easy, or that success is guaranteed. I'm saying that this is the best path forward with regards to healing America as a country. If you want to be negative or pessimistic, I get that sentiment, but we have plenty of threads for that.

Click to shrink...

You can't heal people who don't want to be healed. Changing the Republican party isn't feasible. You have to get to younger voters before them and get younger voters to turn out. You have to reach out to communities of color, actually help them, and stop voter suppression. That's it. Republicans and most of white America don't care about the lives of people of color. You can't get them to suddenly care.

 

[Servbot24]

Texas has very large cities and is still red.

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Texas is huge though. There are a LOT of small red counties that are 100% red, while the big cities are only 60-75% blue.

 

[excelsiorlef]

No. Literally I am saying, just run as both a social AND economic progressive, but run as a Republican.

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And that's going to work how

 

[YuriLowell]

A positive change for the Republican Party would solely involve them all fucking off into the Sun.

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This. There is no positive outreach for that toxic non-inclusive party. They need to be left to rot.

 

[Gentlemen]

Don't. Just say straight out that you're for everyone's rights and freedoms, and that you don't believe the party should support toxic ideology. And yeah, that's me saying I don't believe it's outright required to have those views to run as a Republican.

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Ah, the 'all rights matter' angle. Totally not a poisoned ideological well or anything.

 

[Htown]

yo why do we spend so much time trying to figure out how to save the republican party

do we think their success is because of how much time they spend trying to appeal to democrats? fuck no.

 

[Rocket Man]

70+ million people looked at the insanity of the last 4 years and said "yes, I'll have more of that". These people are brainwashed, and yes they do see it as sports. They are a cult. You need a complete and utter tear down of the education system, social media and news media and build it from the ground up.

The Republican party will most likely double down on Trumpism, and if they dont, theyll either be primaried by Trump/Qanon nutjobs or Trump will start his own party and TV network

 

[Contramann]

This sort of thing has happened for years now within the Democratic Party, so it's not unheard of. There are conservative, moderate, and liberal Democrats. There is no reason the Republican party can't expand to include progressive candidates, especially given the greater history of the party, and doubly so because of the popularity of progressive ideas within their voting ranks.

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Well here's the issue. Yes, it's a thing that has happened but you have to either figure out the lightning in a bottle way to make a candidate at the top change everything on the bottom but that's so so rare to get your one guy to the top to change everything else behind him. The other and more likely one is sloooooooooooooow. The other is basically the AOC method where you start at the bottom and try to change the party that way and we can currently see how that's going. Basically, slow gradual change is real fucking hard and fast change even worse.

Basically, I think the Republican party is not worth changing and would rather is just destroy itself and something new is made. Unless you see something really worth salvaging in the party I wouldn't bother trying to save/change it.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

No. Literally I am saying, just run as both a social AND economic progressive, but run as a Republican.

Click to shrink...

Socially & economically progressive platform is just putting up this guise of "progressive" policies hidden by a layer of capitalism.

 

[Alucrid]

And that's going to work how

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there's some economic and social issues you can't even run on as a democrat. i don't know how they don't get this

 

[acheron_xl]

No. Literally I am saying, just run as both a social AND economic progressive, but run as a Republican.

Click to shrink...

And when someone, be it a voter, a player in the party (that would theoretically have to stump for you), or any other Republican asks why you're a Republican what would you tell them?

 

[Tuorom]

People still aren't over the Civil War. It's been 155 years! How are you supposed to make meaningful change when people still have ideologies and problems that fucking old.
America has broken up but stayed in the same house with it's ex, who's toxic. America needs to move on and until then will not find change.

 

[Gentlemen]

You don't reform something that has been actively bigoted for the entirety of living memory. You don't use the name, you don't pretend you're "Republican and all the irredeemable things that implies, but incrementally better!"

You kill it. You break it up. You rob it of all its power and appeal. You dismantle the tools it has used over the last century to keep its disproportionate grasp on power. The Republican party doesn't deserve to exist. It lost the popular fight ages ago and clings to life via structurally unfair rules it wrote.

I see no merit in trying to 'fix' it.

 

[ash32121]

The heck, if you want to have a progressive party that worries more about small business and state etc etc. Destroy the Republican party, then prop up a new one, that shit is way easier than trying to "reform" them, like how the fuck can you think about uprooting the establishment Republican.

 

[Metallix87]

We don't. You have isolated economic policies, such as a minimum wage increase, and are using that to extrapolate that Republicans are just secret progressives but just don't like voting for the other team. It's nonsense, pure ridiculousness.

These people don't want abortion rights, LGBTQ equality, higher taxes on the wealthy, racial equality, environmental reform, etc. Instead, there are small economic issues that would primarily benefit them that they are willing to vote for on a state by state basis.

Click to shrink...

I pointed out that it's more than just isolated economic policies. We've seen polling data from conservative sources over the past several months suggesting other progressive policies and ideas are taking root among "Republicans".

We can look at it through individual issues you've mentioned:

1.) Abortion Rights:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...cans-dont-agree-with-their-party-on-abortion/

We are seeing a shift with younger (under the age of 50) Republicans who support abortion rights. There's admittedly work still to do in this regard, but things are slowly changing.

2.) LGBTQ equality:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/311672/support-sex-marriage-matches-record-high.aspx

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...states-favor-lgbtq-rights-poll-finds-n1243238

Support for gay marriage has increased to 49% of the party. 60% of Republican voters polled were in favor of trans rights. Things are changing in this front.

3.) Higher taxes on the wealthy:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...on-very-rich-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z9141

The majority (53%) of Republicans support wealth taxes on the uber rich.

4.) Racial equality:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...isan-gap-in-how-americans-see-discrimination/

It was tougher to find recent polling data on this subject, but this is clearly an area where Republicans are still way behind the times, though the data does suggest that, like with abortion rights, we are seeing progress with regards to younger Republicans.

5.) Environmental reform:

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2019/11/25/u-s-public-views-on-climate-and-energy/

Again, we see evidence that things are changing with the younger generation, as around 52% of young Republicans believe the federal government needs to do more to combat climate change.

Sorry it took so long to get this reply together, I had to do some quick research to make sure I wasn't just spewing shit out of my ass.

 

[Watchtower]

I think it's likely easier for a RINO to win in a red state than an outright Democrat, even if the Democrat is more conservative / centrist than said RINO. I don't think it's a matter of the voters being stupid, I think they are likely open to some or most progressive ideals, but still want to vote Republican anyway.

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You're right only in that a Democrat would not even be considered, but that doesn't mean it's an easy walk for a RINO. Tommy Tuberville beat Jeff Sessions because Alabamians couldn't forgive Sessions for "betraying" Trump, Larry Hogan is shit on despite being a bog-standard Republican because he's not a Trumper, and beloved John Kasich couldn't do shit to win over Ohio.

Any progressive RINO is going at the very least denounce socialism wholesale, ignore and outright denounce BLM and any sort of identity politics, would have to be provenly Christian, and would probably need some performative Trumpism including shitting on Democrats. And either they'll be progressive enough to be outed as a "fake" and eventually removed, or they'll not be anywhere as progressive as you'd like.

 

[Metallix87]

By the way, I'm not responding to the people who are suggesting "burn the Republican party to the ground, make a new party" because, quite frankly, I think that's much more unrealistic than what I'm proposing.

 

[Replicant]

It's up to Republicans to fix their party. They have to go hard to reject Trumpism and extremism. The fact that even long time Republican Party Senators and leaders are silent right now tells me they have zero intention of changing.

I don't see that happening.

 

[Mar Tuuk]

Many considered the Republican Party would be destroyed with defeat but Trump opening new demographics proves they can become a strong force.
Trump getting the most Non-White vote for any Republican President in the past 60 years shows they have paths forward.
Trumpism is here to stay because there are Non-Whites who agree with it. This election showed that.

 

[StuKen]

No. Literally I am saying, just run as both a social AND economic progressive, but run as a Republican.

Click to shrink...

What you're arguing is asking a black man to joing the KKK to make a positive change from within. Its an absurdity to ask a hate group whose entire identy is defined by that hatred of you to listen as you ask them to do a bit better.

There is a demographic shift coming in the next 20 years and that is the only thing that will change it. External forces. The majority of white peple have accepted that the last 4 years were fine. Until that shift occurs and minority votes outweight those fascist enablers it's containment and long bloody slog of attrition holding republican policies at bay.

 

[g23]

Conservative parties in other nations acknowledge climate change and are on board with green energy. If the GOP wants to survive they are going to need to do the same and get with the times.

 

[Ser_Luke]

I don't know if the Republican Party can be salvaged I think the only hope would be for some of the few reasonable republicans like Romney would be to split off and form a third party that in time might have a chance of growing and even replacing the Republican Party.

 

[ChrisD]

Texas has very large cities and is still red.

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Heck, Dallas is one of THE largest cities, and it was blue this year nearly 2/1. Dallas is always blue. Doesn't change the State as a whole despite also being magnitudes more populated.

 

[Ser_Luke]

Texas has very large cities and is still red.

Click to shrink...

I'm in Texas and voted for Biden and as did most of my county, the problem is Texas has a lot of rural areas combined with oil and gas people.

 

[BossAttack]

I pointed out that it's more than just isolated economic policies. We've seen polling data from conservative sources over the past several months suggesting other progressive policies and ideas are taking root among "Republicans".

We can look at it through individual issues you've mentioned:

1.) Abortion Rights:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...cans-dont-agree-with-their-party-on-abortion/

We are seeing a shift with younger (under the age of 50) Republicans who support abortion rights. There's admittedly work still to do in this regard, but things are slowly changing.

2.) LGBTQ equality:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/311672/support-sex-marriage-matches-record-high.aspx

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...states-favor-lgbtq-rights-poll-finds-n1243238

Support for gay marriage has increased to 49% of the party. 60% of Republican voters polled were in favor of trans rights. Things are changing in this front.

3.) Higher taxes on the wealthy:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...on-very-rich-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1Z9141

The majority (53%) of Republicans support wealth taxes on the uber rich.

4.) Racial equality:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...isan-gap-in-how-americans-see-discrimination/

It was tougher to find recent polling data on this subject, but this is clearly an area where Republicans are still way behind the times, though the data does suggest that, like with abortion rights, we are seeing progress with regards to younger Republicans.

5.) Environmental reform:

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2019/11/25/u-s-public-views-on-climate-and-energy/

Again, we see evidence that things are changing with the younger generation, as around 52% of young Republicans believe the federal government needs to do more to combat climate change.

Sorry it took so long to get this reply together, I had to do some quick research to make sure I wasn't just spewing shit out of my ass.

Click to shrink...

Never. Trust. Polls.

 

[NinjaScooter]

The Republican Party were down this road long before Trump. This is who they want to be. This is who the people they represent want them to be. Getting rid of Trump isn't going to magically change this. Trump wasn't the disease, he was a symptom. Reagan's racist policies predate Trump. Bush Jr.'s pandering to religious wackjobs and radical evangelicals predates Trump. McCain legitimatizing the Tea Party (which has a through line to the conspiracy theory crazed arm of the GOP we are seeing now) by putting Palin on his ticket predates Trump. The 8 years of using blatant, open racism to mobilize their base during Obama's presidency predates Trump. Trump was just continuing the long standing tradition and putting his own cult of personality spin on it. The Republican Party is THIS. They are racist. They are bigoted. They are anti-science. This is who they are and what the people they represent are.

 

[Metallix87]

Never. Trust. Polls.

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"Present data"

Okay.

"Never trust data"

Okay.

 

[Kito]

Not going to happen. The Trump party is more popular and devoted then ever. Nothing will change and Trump might win in 2024.

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What about all the tens of millions of young adults who will be casting their first ballots in 2024? You don't think they'll vote overwhelmingly blue? That potential, coupled with the fact that many old die-hard Republicans will pass away by then I think will create an even stronger push against a Republican candidate.

 

[Regulus Tera]

They're very likely to retain the Senate, gained seats in the House in a year when they ran one of the most unpopular incumbent presidents ever, and now have a Supermajority of SCOTUS appointees. The Republican Party is not gonna change in the near future. Either they have to be crushed electorally (increasingly looking unlikely with the way they've become so reliant on minoritarian vote) or a progressive movement has to spring up from the inside.

 

[BossAttack]

"Present data"

Okay.

"Never trust data"

Okay.

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If that data could be trusted you would see that translated into votes, turns out people can poll for supporting one thing while voting for the complete opposite.

 

[Enduin]

GOP has always been cancer, but Trump's brand is beyond accelerated and indiscriminate. Best case scenario is that Trump and his diehards attack their own over the perceived slights against him and his losing the election and the party fractures. This won't make the anti-Trumpers any better, but it might at least pitch the two sides against each other with competing candidates thus splitting the Rep vote and give the Dems a leg up.

Trumps is a real cult of personality and he's not going to let up once he's out of office. He's going to continue the grift, attack anyone and do anything to profit and stay in the spotlight. He could easily turn on the GOP out of spite for how they've abandoned him with this election and go after Fox with his own network and just cause chaos within the party. Problem is that Anti-Trump Republicans have already shown they're willing to debase themselves and do anything so long as it helps them win. So they'll just do whatever the Trumpers want to maintain control.

 

[Metallix87]

If that data could be trusted you would see that translated into votes, turns out people can poll for supporting one thing while voting for the complete opposite.

Click to shrink...

Again, the thrust of this thread is that people vote for their team, regardless of their beliefs.

 

[PAFenix]

I get what you're trying to say OP. I truly am. I have many talks with my parents over things like healthcare and education. They agree with me, to my surprise, about how ludicrous it costs for both. How SOMETHING needs to change. They are so close, I can taste it.

But they won't change from their stances. Offering a public healthcare option for everyone and suddenly their tune changes to death panels and socialism not being the way. Better access to higher education and suddenly degrees are useless.

And the only reason they'll even talk about these two particular issues is because it personally effects them. They won't even entertain any other issues. Racism doesn't exist thanks to MLK and everything is fine now that gay people can marry.