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Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
The election is over. It saw record turnout on both sides. Joe Biden is now President-Elect of the United States. Joe Biden has called for a healing process in America, and to stop seeing political opponents as enemies. Something something something, we're all Americans. In a sense, I agree with what he has to say in this regard, and do think it's time to mend the divide in the country, but I wanted to make this topic to present something outright that I've been suggesting for a couple of months now in various threads.

In order to heal America, we need to bring positive change to the Republican party.

I've had the running theory for a while now that people in America just treat politics as basic team sports, and don't put much thought to it beyond that. I think one key example of that is the election results from Florida. The increased minimum wage secured a decisive victory, despite Trump winning the state in the election. We've seen Fox News polling results linked here support several progressive ideas as being popular among their viewership, as well. So what gives?

A lot of people vote Republican because they identify as Republican, and less so because of an affinity for all or even most Republican ideology.

I believe, as a result of this, that moderate and progressive individuals can likely run as Republicans in red states, cities, and districts and essentially bring some amount of progressive ideology to the party, and gradually begin changing the Republican party as we move forward. I'm sure I'll get a lot of responses to this idea calling it or me stupid for suggesting it, but it's a better path forward than pretending the Republicans don't exist or will somehow magically go away. 2020 proved their numbers, with regards to voting populace, has increased since 2016. There will eventually be another Republican President, be it in 2024 or 2028 or beyond, and it's better for us to work to "restore" the Republican party to a progressive party, as it was about 120 years ago, the last time we had such a record percentage of the population come out to vote.

The Republican party has been on this path roughly since Nixon and the Southern Strategy, and it's time to put an end to Nixon's legacy on the party.
 

MasterYoshi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,037
They just got the second highest number of votes in American history. More votes than even Barrack Obama in 2008. This will triple down on Trumpism.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
The ones that need to change main-stream republicans are main-stream republicans. They won't, though.
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
We need to set up cities in these red states. Then we can turn them blue.
I think what I'm proposing is likely much easier to accomplish than convincing hundreds of thousands of people to move to a small city in Kentucky and build it up.
The ones that need to change main-stream republicans are main-stream republicans. They won't, though.
Why would they? The politicians believe in what they believe in. The idea is to bring outside views and ideas into the party gradually, and thus bring about positive change.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,695
Push policies over teams and ask for good faith input from the grass roots of the opposition party rather than their agenda-riddled political leadership.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Why would they? The politicians believe in what they believe in. The idea is to bring outside views and ideas into the party gradually, and thus bring about positive change.
Attempts to bring outside views into a cult are usually shunned and cause a doubling down on the cult's ideals, and a cult is what the Republican party is now.
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,061
I can believe this. If the GOPigs actually listen and propose said progressive policies, then that can cause the Dems to stop shying away from even more progressive policies.
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,643
Republican will continue to be Republican. Biden will try but will be ignored and put all their energy to stifle postal votes next time around.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
You can't just declare yourself a Republican candidate you have to win primaries, no one you're suggesting survives a Republican primary let alone wins it
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Push policies over teams and ask for good faith input from the grass roots of the opposition party rather than their agenda-riddled political leadership.
I think eliminating the "team sports" aspect of politics in America is a tough ask.
Attempts to bring outside views into a cult are usually shunned and cause a doubling down on the cult's ideals, and a cult is what the Republican party is now.
"Don't try". Got it.
You can't just declare yourself a Republican candidate you have to win primaries, no one you're suggesting survives a Republican primary let alone wins it
How many are you aware of that have tried and failed?
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,433
good luck trying to astroturf those elections. even if you do win you're toast on your reelection bid.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
I was reading a post on reddit a few days ago saying that in Hawaii the GOP is so soured that anyone running under it is basically guaranteed to lose, so everybody just runs as a democrat (which means you have progressives, liberals, and conservatives all running under that umbrella). Not sure how true it is, but I don't think it's too crazy.

Personally I think we need to reign in on "entertainment" masquerading as news (ie: Fox), bring back the fairness doctrine, and as a teacher, pressure school systems to allow for discussions that are necessary, even if they're uncomfortable or against certain beliefs (especially in high schools where students should be old enough to start to handle those discussions) while also heavily promoting fact checking and identifying the quality of resources. By the time students graduate from high school, they should be educated enough to not fall for (or at the very least, question) blatant propaganda.

Texas has very large cities and is still red.

Texan here, can confirm.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
"Don't try". Got it.
No, I'm only stating that without the cult's leadership leading any change in direction, the cult will continue to be a cult. If it's gonna happen, perception of outside influence would only make it harder.

Edit:
Bottomline: Give the cult leaders a reason to change. The best way to do that is to beat them into submission electorally until they figure out they need a change in direction.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,433
I was reading a post on reddit a few days ago saying that in Hawaii the GOP is so soured that anyone running under it is basically guaranteed to lose, so everybody just runs as a democrat (which means you have progressives, liberals, and conservatives all running under that umbrella). Not sure how true it is, but I don't think it's too crazy.

Personally I think we need to reign in on "entertainment" masquerading as news (ie: Fox), bring back the fairness doctrine, and as a teacher, pressure school systems to allow for discussions that are necessary, even if they're uncomfortable or against certain beliefs (especially in high schools where students should be old enough to start to handle those discussions) while also heavily promoting fact checking and identifying the quality of resources. By the time students graduate from high school, they should be educated enough to not fall for blatant propaganda.

no it's true. that's how we got tulsi gabbard. of course now that the mask is off, where is she in politics?
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
No, I'm only stating that without the cult's leadership leading any change in direction, the cult will continue to be a cult. If it's gonna happen, perception of outside influence would only make it harder.
I'm unsure if that's true. Again, we have seen some progressive ideology show up as popular with Republicans. The idea of bringing those to the forefront with progressive or even moderate candidates isn't something that I think would be seen as outside influence. Maybe a few in some southern states. Florida, though? Texas? I think those states have room to have their Republican party shift leftward a bit with more progressive candidates, as a start. Arguably, blue states would benefit from having an opposition party that isn't outright out to muck things up for them, as well.

Go for it.

Let us know how it goes

While you fight to be the economic progressive Republican please do promise you won't sell out women's rights, immigration, lgbt rights, black lives matter, etc... eh?
So... you can't name a single one? Cool. Thanks for sharing.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,699
Republicans campaigning on progressive ideals won't be elected in red districts. People who vote for Republicans hate leftists despite liking our ideas.
 

MechDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,687
Texas has very large cities and is still red.


That "spine" includes Dallas, Austin and San Antonio. You have Houston on the east side of the state and El Paso on the west. Texas Dems have to reach out to the Rio Grande Valley more. I keep seeing it mentioned that is how they got large Arizona turn out
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Republicans campaigning on progressive ideals won't be elected in red districts. People who vote for Republicans hate leftists despite liking our ideas.
Again, I haven't seen any proof that this is true. I can't think of a single Republican running on outright progressive ideas.

I just said you go for it.

Try it.
I live in a hard blue state. It is not withing my ability to affect major change. If I ran as a Republican here, it would likely help a tiny bit if I were to win, but to affect real change, it's about the hard red states and the purple states.
 

Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,405
You can't just declare yourself a Republican candidate you have to win primaries, no one you're suggesting survives a Republican primary let alone wins it
Yeah this essentially. What is being proposed here is basically figuring out a candidate that wins the Republican Primary that is somehow moderate and the complete opposite of the message the Republicans have been peddling for years now.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,862
They're not gonna change for the better. They doubled down on their shittiness after Romney loss.
 

bixente

Member
Jan 27, 2019
2,256
Politics as a team sports doesn't seem unique to me from a Republican viewpoint. There was a thread where a minority of posters pointed out Obama's poor record with drone strikes, but these posts were largely ignored.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
I live in a hard blue state. It is not withing my ability to affect major change. If I ran as a Republican here, it would likely help a tiny bit if I were to win, but to affect real change, it's about the hard red states and the purple states.

And how do you propose getting around the whole white supremacy misogynistic transphobic homophobic bigoted thing that's required
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
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Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Yeah this essentially. What is being proposed here is basically figuring out a candidate that wins the Republican Primary that is somehow moderate and the complete opposite of the message the Republicans have been peddling for years now.
This sort of thing has happened for years now within the Democratic Party, so it's not unheard of. There are conservative, moderate, and liberal Democrats. There is no reason the Republican party can't expand to include progressive candidates, especially given the greater history of the party, and doubly so because of the popularity of progressive ideas within their voting ranks.

And how do you propose getting around the whole white supremacy misogynistic transphobic homophobic bigoted thing that's required
Don't. Just say straight out that you're for everyone's rights and freedoms, and that you don't believe the party should support toxic ideology. And yeah, that's me saying I don't believe it's outright required to have those views to run as a Republican.
 

Ouroboros

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,012
United States
my friend's sister, who is deep red posted on facebook that after hearing Biden's speech last night she is no longer "afraid" that he will take away "freedom of religion" and is ready to keep an open mind and heal the country.

might be complete bull shit, but i see it as a positive.
 

YuriLowell

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,551
The Republican Party is funded by right wing think tanks. It will never ever fucking change.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,081


That "spine" includes Dallas, Austin and San Antonio. You have Houston on the east side of the state and El Paso on the west. Texas Dems have to reach out to the Rio Grande Valley more. I keep seeing it mentioned that is how they got large Arizona turn out


I live in that spine. I agree that people need to go to the Valley more to get more voter turnout but I'm not sure that's enough.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,865
Not going to happen. The Trump party is more popular and devoted then ever. Nothing will change and Trump might win in 2024.
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
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Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Not going to happen. The Trump party is more popular and devoted then ever. Nothing will change and Trump might win in 2024.
The Republicans aren't going to change. They like the way they are.
The current Republican lawmakers? Sure, absolutely. Again, the evidence we've seen, from polling and from the actual results in Florida, suggest that progressive ideology is gaining in popularity within their party.

Cool, how do you propose those sitting Republicans lose their party support when the registered Republicans overwhelmingly approve of their message?
The thesis I've presented is that the registered Republicans overwhelmingly just vote for their team. That's it. They're not married to the message that the current Republican party politicians are pushing. Thus, if presented with an alternative that is still Republican, many of them would likely be swayed.
 

StuKen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
260
This same conversation was had in 2008 and 2012 and both times the party doubled down on the extreme fringes of the party. That got us to where a trump was inevitable. They wont change, they will just keep getting more and more extreme and get the bulk of what they want as democrats attempt to bridge that gap. Republicans have changed the rules of the game yet the leadership of the democratic party don't see this or don't want to accept that any attempt at bipartisan compromise inevitably backfires. A hard line must be drawn and a clear differentiation must be drawn between them and the gop otherwise all that they can offer is a more inept implementation of the same gop platform.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,620
I propose changing it by dropping all Republicans into an active volcano
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
This same conversation was had in 2008 and 2012 and both times the party doubled down on the extreme fringes of the party. That got us to where a trump was inevitable. They wont change, they will just keep getting more and more extreme and get the bulk of what they want as democrats attempt to bridge that gap. Republicans have changed the rules of the game yet the leadership of the democratic party don't see this or don't want to accept that any attempt at bipartisan compromise inevitably backfires. A hard line must be drawn and a clear differentiation must be drawn between them and the gop otherwise all that they can offer is a more inept implementation of the same gop platform.
We may have had these same conversations back then, but candidates did not emerge to affect positive change.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,699
I can't think of a single Republican running on outright progressive ideas.
Because staunch Republican politicians don't believe in progressive ideas.

It's like getting me to run as a Democrat on some anti-LGBT, hyper religious, pro-police bullshit in the middle of Atlanta to try and turn it back red. Do you think Atlantans would vote for me simply because I'm a black Democrat and thus they'd be tricked?

This is not how any of this works.
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
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Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Because staunch Republican politicians don't believe in progressive ideas.

It's like getting me to run as a Democrat on some anti-LGBT, hyper religious, pro-police bullshit in the middle of Atlanta to try and turn it back red. Do you think Atlantans would vote for me simply because I'm a black Democrat and thus they'd be tricked?

This is not how any of this works.
I mean, it clearly is, since we've seen numerous elected Democrats that would be billed as conservative by users on here, including the current President-Elect, despite moving more to the Left with this election.

The wording often used is "big tent" party, I believe.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,004
The thesis I've presented is that the registered Republicans overwhelmingly just vote for their team. That's it. They're not married to the message that the current Republican party politicians are pushing. Thus, if presented with an alternative that is still Republican, many of them would likely be swayed.

Except what you are stating is not true. Period.
 

kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
California
I'm sure I'll get a lot of responses to this idea calling it or me stupid for suggesting it, but it's a better path forward than pretending the Republicans don't exist or will somehow magically go away.
Yeah, it's irritating to me that people are content with the Republican party being so horrible. People laughed Trump off in the primaries leading up to the 2016 elections, and look at what that got us. Even worse, while a lot of people seem to be elated by the fact that Biden won the election, I have to say that Trump's victory in 2016 ultimately lowered the bar as far as even Democratic candidates were concerned. That isn't the way to keep people like Trump out of office. The fact that the 2020 election was so close despite everything Trump did being so fresh in everyone's mind is scary. Imagine how it'll be in four years after everyone eases into the mindset that the system works simply because the worst of the two candidates didn't get re-elected in 2020. The country's standards are shot, yet people are still okay with one of the two main parties having trash candidates because of this delusion that people are always going to vote blue.
 
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Metallix87

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
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Nov 1, 2017
10,533
So are you suggesting progressives keep quiet about social issues, abandon the Democratic party to run as economic progressives in Republican primaries
No. Literally I am saying, just run as both a social AND economic progressive, but run as a Republican.
Except what you are stating is not true. Period.
Again, we have, at the very least, some evidence from this election suggesting my thesis is correct. So no, there is no "Period".