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Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
As did a lot of people, which is directly why games got more obviously linear since then, as Masuda said in an Iwata's Asks
"More obviously linear" is a bit of an understatement. Over time, they've almost completely excised anything that even resembles exploration.
I never said they didn't?
My point is, that spin-offs often aren't given all that much space to themselves. There was even one case where a spin-off intentionally launched the exact same day as a mainline game (Pokémon Dream Radar).
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,125
"More obviously linear" is a bit of an understatement. Over time, they've almost completely excised anything that even resembles exploration.

My point is, that spin-offs often aren't given all that much space to themselves. There was even one case where a spin-off intentionally launched the exact same day as a mainline game (Pokémon Dream Radar).
Pokémon Dream Radar was literally designed as a 3DS boost for B2W2 to encourage 3DS players to get B2W2...on its own Dream Radar is barely a game, it was 100% designed as a companion for B2W2
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
Pokémon Dream Radar was literally designed as a 3DS boost for B2W2 to encourage 3DS players to get B2W2...on its own Dream Radar is barely a game, it was 100% designed as a companion for B2W2
While it was definitely a tie-in, it's about as much a game as Pokémon Dash, or literally anything released on the Pokémon mini.
 

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,981
Cornfields
-No Distortion World
-No Battle Frontier
-No Gym Leader rematches
-"The Battle Zone Project has started!"
-Less total pokemon available than in gen 4
-DP gym designs
-DP level curve
-Forced exp share
-Dawn/Lucas now show up constantly to tell you where to go
-Platinum Episode where you get to backtrack to previous Galactic bases, fight generic Galactic grunts with lvl 50 wurmples and glameow, and then finish by going to reversal cave which is now just a linear hallway full of exposition and at the end you catch Giratina.

Please be excited.
:(
 

Rockets

Member
Sep 12, 2018
3,011
My point is, that spin-offs often aren't given all that much space to themselves. There was even one case where a spin-off intentionally launched the exact same day as a mainline game (Pokémon Dream Radar).
Dream Radar was a $3 tie-in for for BW2. Pokemon Snap is a $60 follow up to a fan-favorite classic. Not the same thing at all. Personally I just don't see why they'd announce Gen 4 remakes next month when Snap is so close to release and when remakes have a history of being announced in May.

HGSS was announced in May 2009
ORAS was announced in May 2014
Lets Go was announced in May 2018

DP remakes will most likely be announced in May 2021
 

IzzyRX

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,816
-No Distortion World
-No Battle Frontier
-No Gym Leader rematches
-"The Battle Zone Project has started!"
-Less total pokemon available than in gen 4
-DP gym designs
-DP level curve
-Forced exp share
-Dawn/Lucas now show up constantly to tell you where to go
-Platinum Episode where you get to backtrack to previous Galactic bases, fight generic Galactic grunts with lvl 50 wurmples and glameow, and then finish by going to reversal cave which is now just a linear hallway full of exposition and at the end you catch Giratina.

Please be excited.
tenor.gif
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
Dream Radar was a $3 tie-in for for BW2. Pokemon Snap is a $60 follow up to a fan-favorite classic. Not the same thing at all. Personally I just don't see why they'd announce Gen 4 remakes next month when Snap is so close to release and when remakes have a history of being announced in May.

HGSS was announced in May 2009
ORAS was announced in May 2014
Lets Go was announced in May 2018

DP remakes will most likely be announced in May 2021
I don't disagree that May is the most likely unless it gets pushed up to February by the anniversary. My only point of contention is that I don't think Snap has anything to do with that.
 

Deleted member 31092

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
10,783
-No Distortion World
-No Battle Frontier
-No Gym Leader rematches
-"The Battle Zone Project has started!"
-Less total pokemon available than in gen 4
-DP gym designs
-DP level curve
-Forced exp share
-Dawn/Lucas now show up constantly to tell you where to go
-Platinum Episode where you get to backtrack to previous Galactic bases, fight generic Galactic grunts with lvl 50 wurmples and glameow, and then finish by going to reversal cave which is now just a linear hallway full of exposition and at the end you catch Giratina.

Please be excited.

This hurts because it's almost surely how they will remake it
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,109
-No Distortion World
-No Battle Frontier
-No Gym Leader rematches
-"The Battle Zone Project has started!"
-Less total pokemon available than in gen 4
-DP gym designs
-DP level curve
-Forced exp share
-Dawn/Lucas now show up constantly to tell you where to go
-Platinum Episode where you get to backtrack to previous Galactic bases, fight generic Galactic grunts with lvl 50 wurmples and glameow, and then finish by going to reversal cave which is now just a linear hallway full of exposition and at the end you catch Giratina.

Please be excited.
Okay I get this is supposed to be a shitpost talking about how GF is gonna screw up the remakes but I don't see how there will be less Pokémon in the remakes than the original DP.

They already have all the Pokémon in Sword and Shield that will likely already work in the framework for the remakes. Even Let's Go another game that intentionally paired back to the original 151 for nostalgia still had the Meltan line, Alolan forms, and Mega evolutions so in essence Let's Go def had more Pokémon available compared to Red and Blue. So all things considered there will likely be more Pokémon available here than the original games but I could see a small handful of Pokémon that could be cut and were accessible in DPPt but not the remakes due to the way the cuts work
 
Jun 20, 2018
1,269
Other than Sword and Shield (no Switch yet), these are now the only mainline games I've not finished. I played the heck out of Red/Blue back in the day, then didn't touch a Pokemon game until Diamond and Pearl. I couldn't believe how little the game had moved on in almost 10 years and gave up quite early, not touching Pokemon for almost another 10 years. Since 2016 I've played through Leaf Green, Heart Gold, Omega Ruby, White 2, X and Ultra Moon. Ideally I'd have bought a Switch for Christmas but just can't do it with these iteration rumours hanging over it.
 

Aether

Member
Jan 6, 2018
4,421
That's basically what I'm thinking of when I say I think Pokémon should learn a few things from Xenoblade. That would require them to actually figure out how to do trainer battles in the wild area style maps, though, so I don't think it's realistic to expect that from remakes.
DQXI's maps aren't as wide as Xenoblade, so placing trainers in those kinds of maps wouldn't be an issue.

I know, comparisons with BotW are old and cheap, but...
markers for how "hidden" you are? like how monsters find you easyer when you are loud and its bright.
So increase the ares trainers can se, make it a cone, but also give the player indicators and options to sneak around them.
When where at that...use that as a mechanic for a suprise attack on wild pokemon (1 aditional turn at the beginning, or higher captchure chances)... those are oldschool jrpg mechanics, butt i thtink they would work quite well.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,554
I used to navigate the rock tunnel in the dark because I didn't want to lose a slot with Flash when I was 9. People being lost in DPPt is honestly a very poor excuse that is also very on brand for Game Freak, to justify putting a lot less effort in designing the games.

Same as BW selling slightly less than other games in the franchise and they conveniently reducing the number of new Pokémon in next games because, somehow, their conclusion was that people don't actually like new Pokémon.
 
Last edited:

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I know, comparisons with BotW are old and cheap, but...
markers for how "hidden" you are? like how monsters find you easyer when you are loud and its bright.
So increase the ares trainers can se, make it a cone, but also give the player indicators and options to sneak around them.
When where at that...use that as a mechanic for a suprise attack on wild pokemon (1 aditional turn at the beginning, or higher captchure chances)... those are oldschool jrpg mechanics, butt i thtink they would work quite well.
Sneaking around trainers doesn't make much sense given the sportiness of pokemon battles, hence why I think an accept/decline option is overdue. Maybe if you're sneaking around the evil team's base, but this only works if there's a reason not to fight them, but there never is
 

Aether

Member
Jan 6, 2018
4,421
Sneaking around trainers doesn't make much sense given the sportiness of pokemon battles, hence why I think an accept/decline option is overdue. Maybe if you're sneaking around the evil team's base, but this only works if there's a reason not to fight them, but there never is
if you look at tit from an adult perspective that you can just decline when you are challenged... =P
from a "this makes sense in the real world" view, shure. From a gameplay shure just being able to decline kinda breaks a lot.
A "not declining because of honor" explanation, where "as long as he does not see me he cant challenge me" would be enough for me.
Hex, explain that that your trainer rank sinks if you dont take challenges. (couple tthat twith item buy limits or other perks)
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,554
I know, comparisons with BotW are old and cheap, but...
markers for how "hidden" you are? like how monsters find you easyer when you are loud and its bright.
So increase the ares trainers can se, make it a cone, but also give the player indicators and options to sneak around them.
When where at that...use that as a mechanic for a suprise attack on wild pokemon (1 aditional turn at the beginning, or higher captchure chances)... those are oldschool jrpg mechanics, butt i thtink they would work quite well.

These are already good enough ideas on how to innovate on the games formula that you probably made up in like 2 minutes, imagine if GF actually had brainstorming sessions on how to improve, modernize and shake things up in the franchise (like most devs have when they are designing a new game) besides "hmm this is too complicated, let's completely remove it" or "well, it's been 20 years, let's let players access the box storage from anywhere now".
 

Aether

Member
Jan 6, 2018
4,421
These are already good enough ideas on how to innovate on the games formula that you probably made up in like 2 minutes, imagine if GF actually had brainstorming sessions on how to improve, modernize and shake things up in the franchise (like most devs have when they are designing a new game) besides "hmm this is too complicated, let's completely remove it" or "well, it's been 20 years, let's let players access the box storage from anywhere now".
Yeah. GF are not the problem, the conservative save mindset of the higher ups is the problem. Inovation is to them slaping a superficial mechanic (Mega, Z-Moves, Gigantamax,...) onto the game (they viewed smartphone games and gatcha games as their competition in some way)
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,766
Okay I get this is supposed to be a shitpost talking about how GF is gonna screw up the remakes but I don't see how there will be less Pokémon in the remakes than the original DP.

They already have all the Pokémon in Sword and Shield that will likely already work in the framework for the remakes. Even Let's Go another game that intentionally paired back to the original 151 for nostalgia still had the Meltan line, Alolan forms, and Mega evolutions so in essence Let's Go def had more Pokémon available compared to Red and Blue. So all things considered there will likely be more Pokémon available here than the original games but I could see a small handful of Pokémon that could be cut and were accessible in DPPt but not the remakes due to the way the cuts work

There were 493 pokemon available in gen 4, in total. I expect any remakes going forward will be like Let's Go and only have the pokemon originally available within the region, national dex excluded. And since I don't think they'd be dumb enough to revert to the godawful DP sinnoh dex, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they'll use the Platinum sinnoh dex, plus the gen 4 legends/mythicals outside of it, which puts this game at a likely 217 pokemon total. Even if they include a few extras, there's a long way to go from 217 to 493.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
-No Distortion World
-No Battle Frontier
-No Gym Leader rematches
-"The Battle Zone Project has started!"
-Less total pokemon available than in gen 4
-DP gym designs
-DP level curve
-Forced exp share
-Dawn/Lucas now show up constantly to tell you where to go
-Platinum Episode where you get to backtrack to previous Galactic bases, fight generic Galactic grunts with lvl 50 wurmples and glameow, and then finish by going to reversal cave which is now just a linear hallway full of exposition and at the end you catch Giratina.

Please be excited.
The Battle Frontier makes sense as DLC considering it actually is a niche feature that mainly hardcore fans want, but I'm expecting the rest of Platinum's additions to be in. And in general, Platinum improved existing stuff rather than adding new things on top of the old ones so there's less room for cuts.
Also gym designs aren't even the same in remakes, ORAS had some all new designs for some of them
 

Banamy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,402
Dream Radar was a $3 tie-in for for BW2. Pokemon Snap is a $60 follow up to a fan-favorite classic. Not the same thing at all. Personally I just don't see why they'd announce Gen 4 remakes next month when Snap is so close to release and when remakes have a history of being announced in May.

HGSS was announced in May 2009
ORAS was announced in May 2014
Lets Go was announced in May 2018

DP remakes will most likely be announced in May 2021
Not likely to be announced in May. Kind of a special year... with a special day that has a history of announcements
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,193
The Battle Frontier makes sense as DLC considering it actually is a niche feature that mainly hardcore fans want, but I'm expecting the rest of Platinum's additions to be in. And in general, Platinum improved existing stuff rather than adding new things on top of the old ones so there's less room for cuts.
Also gym designs aren't even the same in remakes, ORAS had some all new designs for some of them
To be honest if it's DLC they would need to add more to it otherwise people will complain
 
Jun 6, 2018
782
Thing people don't realise

Diamond & Pearl is responsible for the current state. Based on their research they found people getting frustrated and lost too much due to the (albeit linear) windiness through the region, especially Mt. Coronet. It's similar why they stopped event tickets etc., because they found people often just had the item and never went forward to get the Pokémon.

It does make me wonder how they'll approach it should remakes come

D/P/Pt are my favourite games so I hope they stay faithful to them and don't simplify them too much
 

Nilou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,715
Remember when Defog was an HM, Pepperidge Farm remembers...

I won't miss it either, at least with forced flash hm you could brute force your way as most caves were smaller and linear and made the limited visibility a bit more manageable but defog areas were usually larger, layered and just a pain without defog.

I also have nightmares of this, by far the biggest issue with the originals



Really hoping unlike Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire that they base this off Platinum and not completely cut out the enhancements and extra activities.

I hope these rumors are true i need these remakes so badly. I adore gen 4.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
There were 493 pokemon available in gen 4, in total. I expect any remakes going forward will be like Let's Go and only have the pokemon originally available within the region, national dex excluded. And since I don't think they'd be dumb enough to revert to the godawful DP sinnoh dex, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they'll use the Platinum sinnoh dex, plus the gen 4 legends/mythicals outside of it, which puts this game at a likely 217 pokemon total. Even if they include a few extras, there's a long way to go from 217 to 493.
Unless Game Freak are actively trying to court controversy (to be fair, with how they've been acting lately, they very well might be), there's no reason for them not to reuse all the Pokémon that have already been fully implemented into Sword and Shield. With all those, they're basically at the point where they could realistically have most, if not all of the missing ones ready for launch.
 

Deleted member 9330

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,990
Unless Game Freak are actively trying to court controversy (to be fair, with how they've been acting lately, they very well might be), there's no reason for them not to reuse all the Pokémon that have already been fully implemented into Sword and Shield. With all those, they're basically at the point where they could realistically have most, if not all of the missing ones ready for launch.

There's 682* in SwSh+DLC, I'd say over 800 is an easy get.

*This includes regional forms
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,062
Melbourne, Australia
-No Distortion World
-No Battle Frontier
-No Gym Leader rematches
-"The Battle Zone Project has started!"
-Less total pokemon available than in gen 4
-DP gym designs
-DP level curve
-Forced exp share
-Dawn/Lucas now show up constantly to tell you where to go
-Platinum Episode where you get to backtrack to previous Galactic bases, fight generic Galactic grunts with lvl 50 wurmples and glameow, and then finish by going to reversal cave which is now just a linear hallway full of exposition and at the end you catch Giratina.

Please be excited.
lmao its sad how true this will be
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I wouldn't mind DLC if it meant Gen 9 gets another year in the oven, but I worry it could mean that some Platinum content would be turned into DLC
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,766
The Battle Frontier makes sense as DLC considering it actually is a niche feature that mainly hardcore fans want, but I'm expecting the rest of Platinum's additions to be in. And in general, Platinum improved existing stuff rather than adding new things on top of the old ones so there's less room for cuts.
Also gym designs aren't even the same in remakes, ORAS had some all new designs for some of them

I really don't expect them to add a Battle Frontier at all. People have been begging since ORAS, it's been 6 years and they've had plenty of chances to give us one. It ain't happening. For DLC I wouldn't be surprised if they turn the whole postgame island (Battle Zone, Survival Area, Stark Mountain, etc) into DLC considering how stingy they've been with postgame recently. But maybe I'll be surprised.

And yea you're right about the gyms.

Unless Game Freak are actively trying to court controversy (to be fair, with how they've been acting lately, they very well might be), there's no reason for them not to reuse all the Pokémon that have already been fully implemented into Sword and Shield. With all those, they're basically at the point where they could realistically have most, if not all of the missing ones ready for launch.

They had no reason not to include all Kanto pokemon in SwSh yet didn't. They could be backtracking on their dexit stance after getting spooked by the backlash (that they added more old mons to swsh at all does suggest this as a possibility), but I'm not gonna count on it until I see it.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Which of the mainline 3DS Pokémon games are worth playing for someone who hasn't played one since Pokémon Gold?
Sun/Moon has a better story, but UltraSun/UltraMoon has gameplay enhancements. XY is...ok. be warned the level design and progression of all of these aren't very good, but XY is better here
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,632
Before Crown Tundra I'd have been pessimistic about these games, but crown tundra kicks arse so I'm optimistic they can replicate that going forward.
 

Fnnrqwin

Member
Sep 19, 2019
2,298
Which of the mainline 3DS Pokémon games are worth playing for someone who hasn't played one since Pokémon Gold?
Since you don't seem concerned with playing the most current game I'd go for Sun and Moon. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon have some gameplay enhancements but their pacing is awful and the story in Sun and Moon is great. The best games of the 3D era in general.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
They had no reason not to include all Kanto pokemon in SwSh yet didn't. They could be backtracking on their dexit stance after getting spooked by the backlash (that they added more old mons to swsh at all does suggest this as a possibility), but I'm not gonna count on it until I see it.
Not only was the backlash not in full force yet, but Let's Go used very different (worse) shading on all the Pokémon from how the mainline games have looked since the transition to full 3D.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
controversial opinion time

I was ok with dexit. it made the competitive metagame interesting. uber tier mons suck tho
 

doodlebob

Member
Mar 11, 2018
1,401
This is quite possibly the worst kind of game modern Game Freak could make in my opinion. Sinnoh felt like a culmination of the region/map design and exploration they built from Gens 1 - 4, and everything since has felt more and more like a departure.

Even in terms of remakes, HGSS was a better remake for GSC then ORAS was for RSE. I felt like HGSS were better games overall too.

I hope it's awesome, but I'm sorta dreading the reveal already lol.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
Which of the mainline 3DS Pokémon games are worth playing for someone who hasn't played one since Pokémon Gold?
Sun and Moon or UltraSun and UltraMoon, the former if you care about story (I LOVE Sun and Moon's story) and the latter if you care about more content and difficulty

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire afterwards, great game too.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,730
-No Distortion World
-No Battle Frontier
-No Gym Leader rematches
-"The Battle Zone Project has started!"
-Less total pokemon available than in gen 4
-DP gym designs
-DP level curve
-Forced exp share
-Dawn/Lucas now show up constantly to tell you where to go
-Platinum Episode where you get to backtrack to previous Galactic bases, fight generic Galactic grunts with lvl 50 wurmples and glameow, and then finish by going to reversal cave which is now just a linear hallway full of exposition and at the end you catch Giratina.

Please be excited.

This is probably going to be pretty accurate, especially the part about some character showing up every 5 minutes telling you exactly where to go and what to do.
 

Ultratech

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,385
Which of the mainline 3DS Pokémon games are worth playing for someone who hasn't played one since Pokémon Gold?

Having played all of them recently, here's my thoughts:
  • X/Y: Probably the weakest of the bunch. The Region/Story isn't exactly memorable (and the Story isn't great), but the overall difficulty is a joke thanks to Exp. Share's implementation. Online functionality (along with ORAS which use the same thing) is unmatched though.

  • OR/AS: Remakes of Ruby/Sapphire. These were actually pretty decent. Probably my favorites of the bunch. It builds on from stuff added in X/Y along with some brand new stuff like DexNav (which I'm now forever pissed will never be in another game) and Soaring which basically lets you Fly anywhere lategame without needing a dedicated mon. Also has a Postgame Episode which while annoying for most of it, has a pretty cool climax. Sadly, it doesn't have some extra stuff that was in Emerald, so that sucks.

  • Sun/Moon/Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon: If you're gonna play one, may as well get one of the US/UM games. The Ultra Versions change up some stuff from the originals and add a few extra things, but largely covers most of the same ground. That said, prepare yourself for LOTS of cutscenes (especially early on). Also, the Ultra Versions also have another Postgame Episode, which is a neat throwback to previous games. For me, they kinda sit in the middle of the spectrum.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
This is quite possibly the worst kind of game modern Game Freak could make in my opinion. Sinnoh felt like a culmination of the region/map design and exploration they built from Gens 1 - 4, and everything since has felt more and more like a departure.

Even in terms of remakes, HGSS was a better remake for GSC then ORAS was for RSE. I felt like HGSS were better games overall too.

I hope it's awesome, but I'm sorta dreading the reveal already lol.
HGSS was a much safer remake even though that ended up making it very polished, but ORAS had higher highs with the liberties it took. Huge upgrades to characters, story, lore, Mauville City and Sea Mauville, and it crowned everyone's childhood dream of flying to space and fighting Deoxys
Also DexNav, Mirage Islands and Soaring, online Secret Bases... it had so much cool shit. Very underrated game imo