CDPR's response over The Witcher 3's lack of diversity rings more hollow after the Netflix series

[Deleted member 35653]

The argument 'this is based on Medieval Poland' doesn't stand to me. When you include fantasy elements like mutations, elves, space-time magic and what not you can as well take the freedom to 'inject' some diversity in the cast. They didn't but I don't feel like criticizing them.

 

[Deleted member 58846]

Are the many interactions between Geralt and Ciri, who is supposed to be like a daughter to him, but always lean on flirting, not enough? Even Philippa makes a comment about it ingame for crying out loud.

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What

 

[Mobyduck]

I imagine the leading team behind the games is mostly, if not completely, made up of cisgender white men. This means that, during creation, lack of diversity didn't even cross their mind. Afterwards, they, or their fans, came up with excuses as to why the games lack diversity. That's why the people creating games need to be more diverse.

 

[skipgo]

You're telling fantastical stories with monsters and magic but writing people of color is "unrealistic".

There is NO valid excuse for lack of diversity, if you cite historical reasons that only means you are erasing different people's existance at whatever point in time.

 

[tuxfool]

Are the many interactions between Geralt and Ciri, who is supposed to be like a daughter to him, but always lean on flirting, not enough?

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I think that is your own perversion colouring your point of view.

 

[misho8723]

Yea, plus the games are full of creative liberties as they are set after the books. Meanwhile the show is meant to be a faithful adaption of the books, and it achieves so.

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Ha, so far the show is nowhere near being a faithful adaptation .. Witcher games when it comes to the lore, is more faintful to the books than the show

 

[Deleted member 8196]

Are the many interactions between Geralt and Ciri, who is supposed to be like a daughter to him, but always lean on flirting, not enough? Even Philippa makes a comment about it ingame for crying out loud.

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Like i said, you are just reaching, because i challenge you to find someone that can say, with a straight face, that Ciri and Geralt are flirting in the game, because they are not lol

This is like if someone watched Cavill and Freya Allan eyes contact and jumped quickly to say that they are actually flirting.

 

[Sabretooth]

But hey it's not like there's a hot new Witcher adaptation out there that managed to become a mega hit all while featuring PoC in its slavic-mythology-inspired setting.

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So can we expect similar arguments about the inclusion of other races being made regarding Sekiro, Devotion, and Ghost of Tsushima? Or does this only selectively apply to ethnic-inspired properties from countries considered white?

 

[AllChan7]

I can only speak for myself as a POC, but the Witcher 3 lack of diversity never bothered me that much because the game was so engrossing. After I had played it I did think to myself about the lack of diversity and how they could have gone about adding a more diverse cast in the game. Doesn't take away from my appreciation of the game but the show definitely did a great job in thay regard. CDPR are working hard to make CP2077 a diverse game so I'd say they've learned their lesson going forward and took that feedback to heart

 

[Common Knowledge]

Are the many interactions between Geralt and Ciri, who is supposed to be like a daughter to him, but always lean on flirting, not enough? Even Philippa makes a comment about it ingame for crying out loud.

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…..I...think that's just you. I never once got that impression on their relationship with each other.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

Reading the description in the OP, I'm honestly satisfied with it.

Yeah, magic means you *can* change other aspects of the story, but if people grew up in a vastly mono-racial society, I see no problem with accurately representing that in their work. Having to justify reflecting a real-life condition doesn't make sense to me, although I get why people want more diversity and I'm not complaining the show's more diverse.

 

[LastCupOfBullets]

Asking Polish devs why their adaptation of a Polish book based on Western mythology why there aren't many PoC in their game seems like an effort in futility. Of course they wouldn't think about that when making the game, they're going to make it based on how they interpreted the books, which is unlikely to include many PoC if they haven't interacted with many in their lives.

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Nailed it.

 

[Spedfrom]

Like i said, you are just reaching, because i challenge you to find someone that can say, with a straight face, that Ciri and Geralt are flirting in the game, because they are not lol

This is like if someone watched Cavill and Freya Allan eyes contact and jumped quickly to say that they are actually flirting.

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We'll have to agree to disagree then. I was icked out almost every time they were on screen together.

 

[SunBroDave]

Are the many interactions between Geralt and Ciri, who is supposed to be like a daughter to him, but always lean on flirting, not enough? Even Philippa makes a comment about it ingame for crying out loud.

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[Jessie]

Are the many interactions between Geralt and Ciri, who is supposed to be like a daughter to him, but always lean on flirting, not enough? Even Philippa makes a comment about it ingame for crying out loud.

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I'm gonna vomit on my keyboard

 

[tuxfool]

Reading the description in the OP, I'm honestly satisfied with it.

Yeah, magic means you *can* change other aspects of the story, but if people grew up in a vastly mono-racial society, I see no problem with accurately representing that in their work. Having to justify reflecting a real-life condition doesn't make sense to me, although I get why people want more diversity and I'm not complaining the show's more diverse.

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This is where I stand on it too. I'm not going to grind on people for making the mistake of not thinking beyond their experience, especially if they also then demonstrate that they have learned from it.

 

[FF Seraphim]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I was icked out almost every time they were on screen together.

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I am doing a deep dive on my memory to even remember any part of Witcher 3 where they can be considered flirting with each other. Can you give us an example?

 

[His Majesty]

this the scene you talking about? if so, lol

 

[misho8723]

So now all the movies that are from Europe and only have white people in them taking place in their countries or even fictional - let's say fairy tales ones- are racist?

 

[Shelbyville Milhouse]

Are the many interactions between Geralt and Ciri, who is supposed to be like a daughter to him, but always lean on flirting, not enough? Even Philippa makes a comment about it ingame for crying out loud.

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This says a lot more about you than the game lmao

 

[Jessie]

So can we expect similar arguments about the inclusion of other races being made regarding Sekiro, Devotion, and Ghost of Tsushima? Or does this only selectively apply to ethnic-inspired properties from countries considered white?

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Sekiro and Tsushima take place in an alternate historical Japan. The Witcher takes place in a fantasy world with universe hopping elves.

 

[Gunslinger]

On one hand I understand why people are criticizing lack of diversity but studios shouldn't be forced to anything they dont want. People should be allowed to make a game they envision. Diversity for the sake of diversity is never good. If anything more studios should focus on story that actually have diverse characters not just changing the look of the characters because they have to. Feels very forced and unwanted. But as long as we dont get garbage like Mr Wayne playing Genghis Khan or other whitewashing from early hollywood days.

 

[Sabretooth]

Sekiro and Tsushima take place in an alternate historical Japan. The Witcher takes place in a fantasy world with universe hopping elves.

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My mistake, I forgot about the high-tech prosthetics and skyscraper-sized snakes found in historical Japan, it was an honest mistake.

 

[Prine]

That Cyberpunk trailer with a Sikh taxi cab driver was pretty bad. Hope they've made the appropriate changes.

 

[Jessie]

My mistake, I forgot about the high-tech prosthetics and enormous snakes found in historical Japan, it was an honest mistake.

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I knew you'd say that, which is why I put "alternate." It's clearly an inspiration.

 

[MonsterMech]

Asking Polish devs why their adaptation of a Polish book based on Western mythology why there aren't many PoC in their game seems like an effort in futility. Of course they wouldn't think about that when making the game, they're going to make it based on how they interpreted the books, which is unlikely to include many PoC if they haven't interacted with many in their lives.

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I disagree with this, because they don't expect their customers and fans to just be Polish white guys.

 

[Ikuu]

I knew you'd say that, which is why I put "alternate." It's clearly an inspiration.

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And how is that different from The Witcher?

 

[Damn Silly]

God, there were so many pissbabies after a Polygon article that pointed out the lack of diversity. Couldn't handle even the slightest criticism of their favourite game.

CD Projekt -- to their credit, at least -- seemed to take the critique on board, and added PoC. But yeah, the Netflix show does a good job on that front from the off.

 

[Principate]

If CDPR did a faithful adaptation of the books then you can't blame them, you have to blame the author.

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It's not faithful at all because the games are non-canon fanfiction in the litteral sense.

 

[Mobyduck]

So now all the movies that are from Europe and only have white people in them taking place in their countries or even fictional - let's say fairy tales ones- are racist?

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They show the lack of a diverse industry responsible for the creation of those works. There are a lot of non-white people in that entire continent, believe it or not.

 

[Sabretooth]

I knew you'd say that, which is why I put "alternate." It's clearly an inspiration.

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So you're telling me that they could imagine alternate history Japan could have gigantic snakes and reincarnation, but they couldn't imagine black or brown people in it?

 

[Jessie]

And how is that different from The Witcher?

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The Witcher doesn't take place in Poland. It takes place in a massive continent with dozens of diverse countries. Then, once you get into Ciri's plotline, she can hop between worlds where elves fight sentient unicorns.

At that point, saying skin color matters for historical accuracy is lunacy.

 

[Sargerus]

If CDPR did a faithful adaptation of the books then you can't blame them, you have to blame the author.

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The books don't have monsters prowling in every inch of the world. If anything monsters are nearly extinct in the books.

 

[misho8723]

The Witcher 3 is a straight white male game's wet dream come true and I'm convinced that's a huge reason for it's success. Because that gameplay is fucking atrocious and the characters interactions are often ridiculous and immensely cringe worthy, especially when the long cast of perfectly beautiful women *hint hint* is involved.

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Man, you're just wrong.. there are thousands and thousands, maybe even milions people who have different opinion as you have and there are even writen pieces that are opposite of yours with countless examples of the fact that what you're saying is wrong, then that just means you're wrong .. easy as that

 

[KillerMan91]

I think even without any backslash CP2077 would had been way more diverse because the setting alone demands it. Witcher games are made by white polish devs adopting book from white polish man and those books are mix of fantasy and medieval eastern europe. I mean it was obviously going to be very white because they didn't probably even think about diversity. CP2077 is takes place in far future in american megacity. Of course even white devs are going to make it diverse.

 

[Paul]

Witcher trilogy and the books are amazingly diverse. You have humans, elves, gnomes, dwarfes, godlings, dryads, intelligent dragons..
And both deal with racism very well, through this allegory, even if they do not feature different human ethnicities and skin colors (until HoS). Why? Because they are made by Poles, and Poland was a country stuck behind iron curtain that also happens to be nearly completely homogenous and Poles do not have a guilty conscience over african slavery to feel the need to include africans (or asians, or eskymos). "Write what you know". Of course, now that they know some americans will call them racist because of it, I am sure they learned that lesson.

 

[HK-47]

Sekiro and Tsushima take place in an alternate historical Japan. The Witcher takes place in a fantasy world with universe hopping elves.

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Yeah the alt japan with hate demons and sword wielding apes

 

[Jessie]

So you're telling me that they could imagine alternate history Japan could have gigantic snakes and reincarnation, but they couldn't imagine black or brown people in it?

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They could have. Nioh imagined it with white dudes as main characters. But clearly, having Japanese characters was important to telling a historic Japanese story (Japan was notoriously closed off during the Sengoku era), even if they took on a fantasy slant.

 

[Ninjician-]

I was really disappointed that Sekiro wasn't more racially diverse.

Can't even customize my character.

Let's hope Ghost of Tsushima makes better choices.

 

[PBalfredo]

Definitely no outsiders have ever trampled through Poland, so naturally fantasy Poland is 100% white.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

Sekiro and Tsushima take place in an alternate historical Japan. The Witcher takes place in a fantasy world with universe hopping elves.

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NiOh is alternate historical Japan and they had a black samurai.

Fantasy or alternate historical Japan means shit, you can have black people if you want to

 

[HK-47]

Witcher trilogy and the books are amazingly diverse. You have humans, elves, gnomes, dwarfes, godlings, dryads, intelligent dragons..
And both deal with racism very well, through this allegory, even if they do not feature different human ethnicities and skin colors (until HoS). Why? Because they are made by Poles, and Poland was a country stuck behind iron curtain that also happens to be nearly completely homogenous and Poles do not have a guilty conscience over african slavery to feel the need to include africans (or asians, or eskymos). Of course, now that they know some americans will call them racist because of it, I am sure they learned that lesson.

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Fantastical diversity doesn't really matter compared to diversity for people that actually exist.

 

[Greywaren]

I feel like this has been said a lot, but if someone honestly believes having a person with a different skin color than theirs is "ruining their immersion" in a fantasy world, they are an asshat.

I'm very happy with the diversity in the Netflix show and hopefully we'll see more diversity in any form of media in the future. It's always good and it hurts nobody.

 

[Sabretooth]

But clearly, having Japanese characters was important to telling a historic Japanese story (Japan was notoriously closed off during the Sengoku era), even if they took on a fantasy slant.

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You'll have to explain that one to me. What exactly could have been lost by making the protagonist of Sekiro a black or Indian man?

Edit: And if you do want to take "It was the Sengoku era" route - why specifically set it in the Sengoku era, and why retain that element of historical accuracy that the Sengoku era is still closed off to foreigners?

Whichever way you cut it, you are not applying the same standards to Sekiro as you are to The Witcher. The problem doesn't seem to be so much about diversity as it is about seeing too many white people.

 

[Paul]

Fantastical diversity doesn't really matter compared to diversity for people that actually exist.

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Many people are perfectly capable of enjoying things and empathizing with them even if the characters in them do not look like them. I would say most, even.

 

[HK-47]

They could have. Nioh imagined it with white dudes as main characters. But clearly, having Japanese characters was important to telling a historic Japanese story (Japan was notoriously closed off during the Sengoku era), even if they took on a fantasy slant.

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Sounds like bullshit. Why not an alternate historical japan that wasn't closed off? Too fantasy for you?

 

[Ninjician-]

They could have. Nioh imagined it with white dudes as main characters. But clearly, having Japanese characters was important to telling a historic Japanese story (Japan was notoriously closed off during the Sengoku era), even if they took on a fantasy slant.

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Have you read Shogun? William Adams is a real person.

 

[Jessie]

You'll have to explain that one to me. What exactly could have been lost by making the protagonist of Sekiro a black or Indian man?

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Nothing could have been lost. Nioh did it. The point is that Japan is the real world and Sengoku Japan was not diverse. The Witcher is not the real world and is extremely diverse, in universe.

 

[Sargerus]

I was really disappointed that Sekiro wasn't more racially diverse.

Can't even customize my character.

Let's hope Ghost of Tsushima makes better choices.

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The game that actually is inspired by historical Japan is your choice for more racial diverse? At best you will see some Mongols besides the Japanese.

 

[K Samedi]

I disagree with this, because they don't expect their customers and fans to just be Polish white guys.

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That doesn't mean they can't export Polish culture to the world. I like it when a dev just does it's own thing, from its own perspective, instead of adding things they don't understand.