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StoveOven

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
It seems to me like a big part of the problem is the mods are trying to bolt trans awareness onto the hype train and don't realize that the hype train being allowed to exist in the first place is where a lot of the problems on this forum stem from. You can't have your cake and eat it to. You could have discussion of the game and still have respect for trans members, but you can't have the unrelenting, unthinking hype where a thread is just 50 pages of people drooling over the color yellow and expect anything productive in regards to trans issues or really anything
 
OP
OP
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,006
www.resetera.com

RobinGaming: The Naughty Dog "Agenda" - An Honest, Open Conversation

I saw this in my YouTube feed tonight and I decided to watch it. What's on display here is very interesting. The points that he brings up are valid in the casual discussion sense; but he keeps tap dancing through the minefield in such a way that I question why he even made this video in the...

Like, I do not know how you can look at this users post history and think they are doing anything that would be in good faith. They post mostly in offical threads, and when they do comment on controversial topics is nothing but handwaving and comments along the line of "people take things too seriously." Actions should never, ever be judged in a vacuum like the moderation team has done in this situation.
Well.. between this and the former ban a year before that for saying people are just 'finding things to get upset over' when it came to representation in RDR2, it certainly goes a way to explaining why they responded to my PM – which was an incredibly polite heads up on advocating for trans and LGBTQ+ issues – with saying I wanted to intentionally derail their thread. Spending the rest of the message explaining how they're not a CDPR fanboy and all of the trans concerns around CDPR was misinformation.

I once again question why we're persistently talked down to because of how he's interacted with staff. Makes this feel even worse when it was there was disappointment in us for how we reacted to them skirting the question from Beth for no reason whatsoever. All this user has been is dismissive of concerns yet because he's the hype man for Cyberpunk 2077 – not exactly a problem free game – somehow he gets to go decide what form moderation against him takes.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,239
I do get what you mean but my issue is that while we both know those posters are being gas lighty as shit, those posters once banned will very easily turn around and get people defending them, and they become martrys and it's an entire shitstorm. It's not easy to mod, at least not without causing a firestorm which would probably end up putting a giant target on the back of trans era. Maybe I am being too cautionary but I've seen that shit before and there are too many in ther gaming community that don't understand what being gas lit is like and are much more willing to show empathy to the gas lightees than the victims. That's not me saying not to mod just that because of that it would make me hesitate on what to do if I was a mod because I know how much of a crap shot it could cause to members. I guess my main anger goes to the community than the mods? Sometimes I feel like the community that keeps doing these stuff keeps hding beind it being the mods fault and that it's only a few bad apple posters when it's not and that these posters wouldn't do what they are doing if they didn't think that most of the community would have their backs on it - does that make sense?

Two parts of my response here, going to address the bit from the end first.

It's not inappropriate to assign some blame to the community, but key to this is understanding that you're going to have shitty people in any community, and removing the trouble those shitty people cause is the core rationale for moderators in the first place. You can put some blame on the bad members of the community, but if there's a consistent pattern of shitty people causing problems that aren't cleaned up and learned from, that's a moderation failure on top of shitty community members. And trying to assign the host of the blame to the inevitable shitty folks that moderators exist to deal with in the first place feels like an attempt to shift blame off of where it belongs.

To some of that, but more the first part, I want to say that I'm very much reminded of a twitter thread from the summer about a bartender kicking a nazi out of a bar:



What you're describing is the situation that happens when you fail to purge the bar of nazis and let the one solo nazi invite all his nazi buddies. Particularly if you have bartenders who want to shut down kicking out nazis because "hey, they're being quiet and keeping to themselves, what's the problem?"

Now there's too many of them around, and if you try to do anything to any of them you have A Problem. That sucks, but the root of the problem comes from the failure to give them the boot before they were able to establish critical mass. The only way to solve the problem once you've reached that stage is going to cause strife, and that sucks, but it's the only way to resolve it without just shrugging and saying "well, I guess we're just a nazi bar now, what are you gonna do?"
 

Slash

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Sep 12, 2018
9,859
www.resetera.com

RobinGaming: The Naughty Dog "Agenda" - An Honest, Open Conversation

I saw this in my YouTube feed tonight and I decided to watch it. What's on display here is very interesting. The points that he brings up are valid in the casual discussion sense; but he keeps tap dancing through the minefield in such a way that I question why he even made this video in the...

What. The. Fuck. So this guy was banned in the past for posting a homophobic video for "enlightened discussion" (because apparently including LGBT characters = SJW trash), and yet the mods take him at his word that he is totally sorry for the hurtful things he's caused the Trans community here? Please, mods, let someone else do the OT. What is even going on?
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,254
www.resetera.com

RobinGaming: The Naughty Dog "Agenda" - An Honest, Open Conversation

I saw this in my YouTube feed tonight and I decided to watch it. What's on display here is very interesting. The points that he brings up are valid in the casual discussion sense; but he keeps tap dancing through the minefield in such a way that I question why he even made this video in the...

Like, I do not know how you can look at this users post history and think they are doing anything that would be in good faith. They post mostly in offical threads, and when they do comment on controversial topics is nothing but handwaving and comments along the line of "people take things too seriously." Actions should never, ever be judged in a vacuum like the moderation team has done in this situation.

that's suspicious.... that's weird.
 

RugoUniverse

Member
May 15, 2018
1,006
www.resetera.com

RobinGaming: The Naughty Dog "Agenda" - An Honest, Open Conversation

I saw this in my YouTube feed tonight and I decided to watch it. What's on display here is very interesting. The points that he brings up are valid in the casual discussion sense; but he keeps tap dancing through the minefield in such a way that I question why he even made this video in the...

Like, I do not know how you can look at this users post history and think they are doing anything that would be in good faith. They post mostly in offical threads, and when they do comment on controversial topics is nothing but handwaving and comments along the line of "people take things too seriously." Actions should never, ever be judged in a vacuum like the moderation team has done in this situation.

Fucking hell
 

Mzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
578
Portugal
www.resetera.com

RobinGaming: The Naughty Dog "Agenda" - An Honest, Open Conversation

I saw this in my YouTube feed tonight and I decided to watch it. What's on display here is very interesting. The points that he brings up are valid in the casual discussion sense; but he keeps tap dancing through the minefield in such a way that I question why he even made this video in the...

Like, I do not know how you can look at this users post history and think they are doing anything that would be in good faith. They post mostly in offical threads, and when they do comment on controversial topics is nothing but handwaving and comments along the line of "people take things too seriously." Actions should never, ever be judged in a vacuum like the moderation team has done in this situation.
Fucking hell... Alright, I initially supported the mods decision, despite finding the ban decision pretty awkward-sounding, but this... I think the Era Staff owes us some in-depth explanations now, it's impossible they didn't know about this shit.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,140
Zero words. Absolute zero words. Completely harmless threads have been closed on seemingly the thinnest of whims, but anything involving this game and everyone acts like it's a fucking minefield that requires the topmost diplomacy and peace offers to a fucking videogame OT. Fucking hell.
 

TheMrPliskin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,564
Yeah that's really not the sort of person that should've been given control of the OT for Cyberpunk.

It also just makes me further question the handling of the current situation. His apparent support towards raising awareness of the issue surrounding the game were already made hollow by his actual recent actions, but when you throw that previous ban into the mix it doesn't hold up at all.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
www.resetera.com

RobinGaming: The Naughty Dog "Agenda" - An Honest, Open Conversation

I saw this in my YouTube feed tonight and I decided to watch it. What's on display here is very interesting. The points that he brings up are valid in the casual discussion sense; but he keeps tap dancing through the minefield in such a way that I question why he even made this video in the...

Like, I do not know how you can look at this users post history and think they are doing anything that would be in good faith. They post mostly in offical threads, and when they do comment on controversial topics is nothing but handwaving and comments along the line of "people take things too seriously." Actions should never, ever be judged in a vacuum like the moderation team has done in this situation.

Were they sorry for this too?

Mod team, we do not hate you. We don't think you're the villains. We just need to see y'all own up to this.

This is not okay. This is not what ERA is meant to be.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
www.resetera.com

RobinGaming: The Naughty Dog "Agenda" - An Honest, Open Conversation

I saw this in my YouTube feed tonight and I decided to watch it. What's on display here is very interesting. The points that he brings up are valid in the casual discussion sense; but he keeps tap dancing through the minefield in such a way that I question why he even made this video in the...
just uck, so uck
Two parts of my response here, going to address the bit from the end first.

It's not inappropriate to assign some blame to the community, but key to this is understanding that you're going to have shitty people in any community, and removing the trouble those shitty people cause is the core rationale for moderators in the first place. You can put some blame on the bad members of the community, but if there's a consistent pattern of shitty people causing problems that aren't cleaned up and learned from, that's a moderation failure on top of shitty community members. And trying to assign the host of the blame to the inevitable shitty folks that moderators exist to deal with in the first place feels like an attempt to shift blame off of where it belongs.

To some of that, but more the first part, I want to say that I'm very much reminded of a twitter thread from the summer about a bartender kicking a nazi out of a bar:



What you're describing is the situation that happens when you fail to purge the bar of nazis and let the one solo nazi invite all his nazi buddies. Particularly if you have bartenders who want to shut down kicking out nazis because "hey, they're being quiet and keeping to themselves, what's the problem?"

Now there's too many of them around, and if you try to do anything to any of them you have A Problem. That sucks, but the root of the problem comes from the failure to give them the boot before they were able to establish critical mass. The only way to solve the problem once you've reached that stage is going to cause strife, and that sucks, but it's the only way to resolve it without just shrugging and saying "well, I guess we're just a nazi bar now, what are you gonna do?"

oh I'm all for giving the boot, it's the one's that are very good at blending in that's the problem, and one I don't think there's an easy solution to. Maybe I just wish the community at large cared more tbh.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,800
www.resetera.com

RobinGaming: The Naughty Dog "Agenda" - An Honest, Open Conversation

I saw this in my YouTube feed tonight and I decided to watch it. What's on display here is very interesting. The points that he brings up are valid in the casual discussion sense; but he keeps tap dancing through the minefield in such a way that I question why he even made this video in the...

Like, I do not know how you can look at this users post history and think they are doing anything that would be in good faith. They post mostly in offical threads, and when they do comment on controversial topics is nothing but handwaving and comments along the line of "people take things too seriously." Actions should never, ever be judged in a vacuum like the moderation team has done in this situation.
Wow. Either the staff stopped checking his history or they're just spineless.

I'm sure his intentions "were never to hurt anyone".
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
Official Staff Communication
We're temporarily locking both threads pertaining to Cyberpunk as things are getting out of hand and generating an enormous number of reports that need to be processed.

As for the state of any Cyberpunk OTs, I will be taking over the responsibilities and will create a text-only thread in consultation with trans individuals.

The reason we're featuring an OT for this game is because marginalized members of the forum, including trans members, have expressed a desire in public and private for a space where they can discuss the game and its contents in an environment where bigotry is not tolerated. We would hope that all members of the site would be willing to give them that space and commensurate consideration and kindness.

As an update: Black Chamber has been permanently banned now that we've seen proof that he has not been sincere in his conversations with the staff.
 
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B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
Official Staff Communication
Thread reopened. In light of recent events we'll be reviewing recent bans issued in Cyberpunk threads, and changing how we vet members who handle controversial OTs in the future.

To address the elephant in the room, yes, we were fooled by Black Chamber. When staff reached out to him with concerns about Cyberpunk 2077 we expected confrontation, but in every conversation he was more cooperative than we had have hoped for. He put on a very good impression of a well-meaning idiot. The recurring accusations against him were that he was a shill; to our knowledge nobody had ever suggested he was a Trumper. I can't understate how devastating it is to learn the truth.

If you suspect that another member might be a troll or a Trumper please raise the concern through a report, a ticket, or a private message. If you have proof, we absolutely want to see it.
 

Slash

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Sep 12, 2018
9,859
Official Staff Communication
Thread reopened. In light of recent events we'll be reviewing recent bans issued in Cyberpunk threads, and changing how we vet members who handle controversial OTs in the future.

To address the elephant in the room, yes, we were fooled by Black Chamber. When staff reached out to him with concerns about Cyberpunk 2077 we expected confrontation, but in every conversation he was more cooperative than we had have hoped for. He put on a very good impression of a well-meaning idiot. The recurring accusations against him were that he was a shill; to our knowledge nobody had ever suggested he was a Trumper. I can't understate how devastating it is to learn the truth.

If you suspect that another member might be a troll or a Trumper please raise the concern through a report, a ticket, or a private message. If you have proof, we absolutely want to see it.

Can I ask why you didn't use his prior ban of posting a homophobic video for "enlightened discussion" to guide your thinking? I'm just a bit baffled here, but maybe I am missing some context.
 
OP
OP
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,006
Finding out that the person who ignored and dismissed minority concerns on this forum over the course of years, through to this past week, is an alt-right moron is like the least revelatory thing I can think of.
 

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
Can I ask why you didn't use his prior ban of posting a homophobic video for "enlightened discussion" to guide your thinking? I'm just a bit baffled here, but maybe I am missing some context.

Dude acted like he was ignorant and didn't know any better.

Expressing kindness is such a double-edged sword.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
Homie already found a new home anyway
(you can guess where)
Though it may be tough to fit after having openly shat on that same place a few years ago
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
0p6sJF.jpg


Just FYI, he has received a heroes welcome there now, too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,553
So the end result happened because someone dug up things he tweeted? And obviously he had a prior ban here? Is that the summation of everything or did I miss something. I am just trying to get a clearer picture here.
 

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
Quick psa if any of you joined that cyberpunk era discord chambers letting in gaf members bail immediately and hurry. Spread this around.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Is there any way to get in contact with the members who requested temp bans?
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
What a god damn embarrassment from the top down. I feel horrible for members within the trans community who have felt abandoned here on ERA. You all deserve better.
 

Lamptramp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,397
Germany
Official Staff Communication
Thread reopened. In light of recent events we'll be reviewing recent bans issued in Cyberpunk threads, and changing how we vet members who handle controversial OTs in the future.

To address the elephant in the room, yes, we were fooled by Black Chamber. When staff reached out to him with concerns about Cyberpunk 2077 we expected confrontation, but in every conversation he was more cooperative than we had have hoped for. He put on a very good impression of a well-meaning idiot. The recurring accusations against him were that he was a shill; to our knowledge nobody had ever suggested he was a Trumper. I can't understate how devastating it is to learn the truth.

If you suspect that another member might be a troll or a Trumper please raise the concern through a report, a ticket, or a private message. If you have proof, we absolutely want to see it.

I have to say, it was very hurtful for the staff to go so loudly and clearly to "bat" for Black Chamber over and above an entire community, based on their action in the last two days alone "Trumper" or no.
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
JFC I feel like i owe a huge apology for giving him the benefit of the doubt. :S

granted i never followed the interpersonal conversation stuff but holy fuck. What an asshole.
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,502
I find it highly concerning that mods were so easily fooled by Black Chamber. Moderators have the ability to pull up a users entire ban history in seconds. During this entire conflict, no one on modstaff reviewed his moderation history and couldn't put together he was an alt right stooge? We don't have the ability to view a users infraction history, it's one of the reasons people find banner messages with "history of infractions" dubious.

It's so frustrating to say the least that TransEra is consistently treated as acting in bad faith or that we're agents that are intentionally causing harm to the site. Like, guys, we just want a chill place to post and not have to deal with this crap day after day. Do you see how silly it looks now, previous staff communications where administration is finger waving about how disappointed you are in all of us, us being an entire minority group when we're just trying to be heard, as we always have been.
 

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,722
I find it a little concerning that mods were so easily fooled by Black Chamber. Moderators have the ability to pull up a users entire ban history in seconds. During this entire conflict, no one on modstaff reviewed his moderation history and couldn't put together he was an alt right stooge? We don't have the ability to view a users infraction history, it's one of the reasons people find banner messages with "history of infractions" dubious. It's frustrating to say the least that TransEra is consistently treated as acting in bad faith or that we're agents that are intentionally causing harm to the site. Like, guys, we just want a chill place to post and not have to deal with this crap day after day.

Yeah, this really perplexes me. Like, the ban was right there! Was there no mod vetting before this? We've known CDPR has been transphobic for years, I would have thought they would have taken greater care with the OT
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,496
Boy, I stepped away for a bit to watch a movie, and the receipts on Black Chamber came fast and heavy. My goodness.

I was watching Bake-Off with my family and BOOM. I can't even remember who was Star Baker in the last episode we were watching because everything was just one after the other.

What a mess. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend "Oh I knew Black Chamber was shit all along" because I honestly legitimately had no idea who the hell he even was beyond "the Cyberpunk viral marketing guy", but the staff had to have seen that previous ban combined with a consistent history of not addressing trans concerns and seen SOME smoke. How it had to get this far is beyond me.

The fact he immediately bolted and ran to the other site as soon as he was banned, despite having been previously banned there TOO, is just...
 

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
8,197
I still have questions. While I agree with the text-only approach to an OT (since banning the game is out of the question), what is to stop anyone posting in that thread from creating their own makeshift OT by spamming media posts?

Why wasn't the prior ban for "homophobia, etc." reviewed when negotiating (that's another question, why was he allowed to negotiate the terms of a ban in the first place) his ban terms?

Why did the site bend over backwards in support for this person and throw an entire community under the bus in the process of doing so? Clearly, you must have seen the multiple users asking for self-bans, so why continue to defend that person?
 
May 26, 2018
23,999
Devastating.

Feel like we nearly lost the trans community over a fascist in disguise. Maybe we still have in some way; up to those who left to feel comfortable reaching out to the rest of us... and that's if we even BEGIN to open up to them in a way that would welcome them again, give them trust...

We're gonna be licking our wounds, but we can come out strong, I think...


...I hope.
 
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Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,800
That he turned out to be a massive alt-righter is the least shocking outcome I could've expected from this. That he fooled the staff, however, that I didn't expect. Hopefully things will improve after this. I hope at least part of the staff will be looking at this as a lesson to be taken. The way this was handled was a complete mess.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,786
How in gods name did this get by you guys? Did you not find his actions on the site to be the faintest bit suspicious? What could "cooperative" with the staff possibly mean when he wasn't even cooperative in doing something as simple as saying "Listen to TransEra" in his elaborate OP posts?
 

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
Official Staff Communication
Thread reopened. In light of recent events we'll be reviewing recent bans issued in Cyberpunk threads, and changing how we vet members who handle controversial OTs in the future.

To address the elephant in the room, yes, we were fooled by Black Chamber. When staff reached out to him with concerns about Cyberpunk 2077 we expected confrontation, but in every conversation he was more cooperative than we had have hoped for. He put on a very good impression of a well-meaning idiot. The recurring accusations against him were that he was a shill; to our knowledge nobody had ever suggested he was a Trumper. I can't understate how devastating it is to learn the truth.

If you suspect that another member might be a troll or a Trumper please raise the concern through a report, a ticket, or a private message. If you have proof, we absolutely want to see it.
I think you guys might want to look into the other guy too just to make sure he isn't an alt right troll either. I really don't want him coming back if he is.
 

PaperSparrow

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,020
Wow, got to say, when I saw people going to bat for him, I figured they had context on his wider character. This is embarrassing. Guy was already given more leeway than he deserved.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,167
If I did sommit shitty i wouldn't want mods coming up to me and saying "hey, maybe we could ban you for a bit?" and i SURE AS HELL wouldn't approach the mod team and say "hey just ban me for a month, then everything will be fine"

if I did sommit shitty id just expect to get banned

but even in this odd situation, if BC is offering to be banned, then why isn't that ban starting today?

Because clearly his amazing and special multiple-OT spanning story absolutely MUST be finished first.