CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.

[deepFlaw]

I know mods don't like when we question bans in posts, but since the ban is on a few pages ago and various people may wonder the same, I want to ask: if vestan had to be banned, and considering the reason they were, why only three days? It feels like the only thing this accomplishes is making them avoid posting here moving forward because they won't want to get banned again, and can simply be ready to talk about the game when it releases, as the ban will be lifted by then.

I don't know, I'll let the trans members say something about it, but it doesn't seem to help the community that needs to be heard.

Click to shrink...

...yeah, while we're talking bans that happened in here, not even just the length of it but also the reasoning- is "Too defensive for such a sensitive thread." really the angle to be taking on this post? I do not know if that's the problem I'd point to about a post where someone accuses trans people of being out to get them and claims that they need to understand how the OT creators feel (as if it wasn't an entirely voluntary position), while very clearly showing how little effort they've put into understanding trans users' feelings. What they said would be dismissive and insulting - and proof that after months, they still don't understand the situation they've very willingly put themselves in - in any thread.

Like mod action at all on that is certainly appreciated. I hope that's obvious. But I don't think that quite covers what down here, and it certainly did the opposite of reassuring me personally that the OT will be handled well if these 2 users are still involved. Not that I ever thought it would, but... y'know.

 

[Zellia]

Shiron's post was fire and speaks to the anger many of us feel here. Solidarity.

Shiron said what needed to be said.

Vestal only getting three days is pretty laughable because they'll still be around for the game release. "Between a rock and a hard place" for creating an OT. Oh woe is them.

Click to shrink...

This. Lemme find a nano-violin for this poor person trying to hype a video game that has repeatedly denigrated trans people in its marketing and advertised content. Does his being involved with the OT have any influence on his ban length, I wonder?

 

[Bufbaf]

Also jumping in in solidarity to Shiron. The post was worded out of line, but please make it a non-permament ban. They were angry and overstepped in the insult department, but I'm sure the post was very understandable in its entirety. This is all, I rest my case.

 

[MondoMega]

Also jumping in in solidarity to Shiron. The post was worded out of line, but please make it a non-permament ban. They were angry and overstepped in the insult department, but I'm sure the post was very understandable in its entirety. This is all, I rest my case.

Click to shrink...

Absolutely agree with this; solidarity to Shiron.

 

[Woodbeam]

Solidarity to Shiron.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Yeah, gotta stand with everyone here. Shiron eats a ban, sure, they accepted that and made the post. Let them come back though.

 

[HockeyBird]

At the very least, I think those who were making the Cyberpunk OT shouldn't be making it anymore. Have someone else do it or just have the moderation team make a simple one. There is a fine line between being an enthusiastic fan sharing the latest news and trailer and being someone who gives the appearance of a paid promoter. I think that line has been crossed. There was absolutely no reason to get into with the trans community here. It was something that could have easily been avoided but it's clear to me that some people here see criticisms of the game (which isn't even out yet) as personal attacks against them.

Give the OT to someone who isn't so personally and emotionally invested into the success of the game.

 

[anariel]

Yeah, not really thrilled about what happened with Shiron. They had every right to be as upset as they were in their post.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Also posting in support of Shiron. It needed to be said. It was hostile, but that hostility was fully earned by vestan.

 

[Pancoar]

It's like nothing was learned from the beginning of the community feedback thread, or why that thread even came to be.

 

[Lamptramp]

Shiron's tone may have been too much for some, but the content was passion, it was frustration, it was sadness and anger. The content was perfect and I stand with them too.

Conversely Vestans tone may have been "polite" (hint it wasn't) but the content was dreck, insulting and tone deaf, and yet one is a slap on the wrist the other is "to be decided".

"It would do some of you wonders to assume we aren't coming into this with ill intentions. We've been caught between a rock and a hard place and dealing with it the best we can. This is our spare time after all, and people have lives to lead. "

Then you have done a piss poor job of dealing with the only thing that truly matters, empathy with your fellow community members, lurking here, not engaging, and your co author refusing to answer a simple question. Doubtless there are tens if not hundreds of hours making it look shiny and PR enough.

 

[MinusTydus]

At the very least, I think those who were making the Cyberpunk OT shouldn't be making it anymore. Have someone else do it or just have the moderation team make a simple one. There is a fine line between being an enthusiastic fan sharing the latest news and trailer and being someone who gives the appearance of a paid promoter. I think that line has been crossed. There was absolutely no reason to get into with the trans community here. It was something that could have easily been avoided but it's clear to me that some people here see criticisms of the game (which isn't even out yet) as personal attacks against them.

Give the OT to someone who isn't so personally and emotionally invested into the success of the game.

Click to shrink...

Co-signed.

Have a moderator assemble the OT instead of a fan who's going to obviously be biased against anything that could paint the game into a bad light.

 

[timedesk]

Yeah, going to join the support of Shiron. Their anger was understandable and honestly needed to be expressed. Vestan's post was dismissive and the mods recognized it was more interested in dismissing the issue then actually addressing the problems the trans community here were having.

 

[GSR]

if I were running a gaming forum predicated on being a progressive and safe space for people I would simply not bend over backwards in every possible way to ensure we could have a massive PR-styled official thread for a game that has repeatedly shown to dehumanize transgender people

 

[ArgyleReptile]

Posting in solidarity for Shiron. I'm extremely disappointed that the powers that be are constantly dropping the ball in regards to our trans members. Their well being and comfort should come before people's excitement for a game or a company.

 

[Lamptramp]

At the very least, I think those who were making the Cyberpunk OT shouldn't be making it anymore. Have someone else do it or just have the moderation team make a simple one. There is a fine line between being an enthusiastic fan sharing the latest news and trailer and being someone who gives the appearance of a paid promoter. I think that line has been crossed. There was absolutely no reason to get into with the trans community here. It was something that could have easily been avoided but it's clear to me that some people here see criticisms of the game (which isn't even out yet) as personal attacks against them.

Give the OT to someone who isn't so personally and emotionally invested into the success of the game.

Click to shrink...

You know what, yeah. In fact that should have been the compromise made long ago... Fine your transphobic companies game can have an OT, but its not going to be a massive unpaid marketing thread. It bare bones, just to talk about it. The fact we have had "5 OT's" before its even released is sickeningly "Influencer" enough before we get into the companies behaviour.

 

[Kyuuji]

I hope it's just a coincidence and we're not actually factoring game release dates into ban lengths for people talking down to the trans community.

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Throwing my support in there that Shiron's ban shouldn't be a permanent one.

I also gave the length and reason for Vestan's ban a side eye as it's incredibly hard to not see it as a ban that'll be lifted before the OT goes up. His post threw the legitimate concerns raised by trans people aside and instead tried to paint those concerns as an excuse to start arguments.

 

[Lamptramp]

I hope it's just a coincidence and we're not actually factoring game release dates into ban lengths for people talking down to the trans community.

Click to shrink...

Sure..

 

[Bufbaf]

I hope it's just a coincidence and we're not actually factoring game release dates into ban lengths for people talking down to the trans community.

Click to shrink...

I honestly didn't even think of this.
It makes way too much sense.

 

[Jaychrome91]

Throwing my support in there that Shiron's ban shouldn't be a permanent one.

I also gave the length and reason for Vestan's ban a side eye as it's incredibly hard to not see it as a ban that'll be lifted before the OT goes up. His post threw the legitimate concerns raised by trans people aside and instead tried to paint those concerns as an excuse to start arguments.

Click to shrink...

Shiron was banned for 2 weeks.

 

[deepFlaw]

Shirin was banned for 2 weeks.

Click to shrink...

It was originally duration pending, which often means permanent and can take weeks to be decided. I am glad to see that was not the case here in either way.

 

[Pancoar]

Shirin was banned for 2 weeks.

Click to shrink...

Ah, seems they added a duration to it, it was pending just moments ago. Glad it's not a "Duration Pending ---> Permanent" like so many others have been.

Also I agree, the OT should just be barebones created by someone who is not so invested in the success of the game, we don't need a huge OT with pretty graphics and just pure hype.

 

[MinusTydus]

Shiron was banned for 2 weeks.

Click to shrink...

Then Vestan's ban should equal that. The passive-aggressive ☮ should have earned them a harsher ban than 3 days alone, not even getting into the text of their post.

Good for Shiron, though. That is if they even wish to return. I could understand if they didn't.

 

[AliceAmber]

Shiron will be taking a two week ban, as his post was in violation of the thread rules in addition to being an escalation on previous priors. By his own admission he knew he was breaking the rules and knew he would be banned.

Vestan's duration has nothing to do with the OT's release date (he will still be banned when the OT goes up).

 

[ody]

Clown shoes
A slap on the wrist for someone who would rather look "neutral" than back up basic human rights? And two weeks for the person calling them out on their bullshit behavior? Staff definitely have their priorities straight.

Fuck Vestan and fuck Black Chamber

 

[Muffin]

I sure hope this isn't going to go like back in the situation which led to the Constructive Community Discussion thread being made. Where the ones refusing to acknowledge the issues minorities on this site run into get a slap on the wrist and the people actually targeted or calling it out got duration pending bans that end up being longer.

And with that I mean I very much think that's how it's going to go in the long run, would be pleasantly surprised if not. It's astounding to me how much Asian, Muslim, and now Trans Communities have to endure on here given that this forum is supposed to be a safe space.

 

[Xaszatm]

Thank you Hobbes for answering our questions!

For those curious here. I don't know how to quote it exactly so it's post 951

As far as main story and what I've experienced, the game does not address the transphobia or manticore stuff aside from the manticore posters just existing as ads. There seems to be no characters in the main story line that I can remember encountering that were openly or alluded to being trans or anything but male / female.
Racial stereotyping - I'm not sure. I had previously read that the Voodoo Boys, their accents, dialect etc was very authentic towards Haitian culture, so I can only really say it seems like it.
Most of the "political" aspects of the game are more focused on class than anything else. That's very apparent in pacifica.

Click to shrink...

So...yeah, as far as Hobbes can tell (he hasn't played all the side quests yet so maybe it's addressed there) all that transphobia was just there.

 

[ClickyCal']

So per Hobbes

• As far as main story and what I've experienced, the game does not address the transphobia or manticore stuff aside from the manticore posters just existing as ads. There seems to be no characters in the main story line that I can remember encountering that were openly or alluded to being trans or anything but male / female.
• Racial stereotyping - I'm not sure. I had previously read that the Voodoo Boys, their accents, dialect etc was very authentic towards Haitian culture, so I can only really say it seems like it.
• Most of the "political" aspects of the game are more focused on class than anything else. That's very apparent in pacifica.

Click to shrink...

 

[Arm Van Dam]

Shiron's 2 week ban is bullshit and Vestan's 3 day slap in the wrist ban is even more bullshit

 

[Beth Cyra]

Thank you all for asking and getting answers.

Hobbes thank you for all the honest impressions! Sucks it's not addressed but ya know what, I'll take it over negative characters as well.

 

[Adulfzen]

only 3 days for someone who decided to take a big shit in a thread regarding transphobia is a bad look
I feel sorry for all the marginalized groups on this website who have to walk on eggshells around bigots because they'll get punished as much if not more as evidenced in this thread.

 

[timedesk]

Thank you Hobbes for answering our questions!

For those curious here. I don't know how to quote it exactly so it's post 951



So...yeah, as far as Hobbes can tell (he hasn't played all the side quests yet so maybe it's addressed there) all that transphobia was just there.

Click to shrink...

Of course. Just some casual transphobia for flavor, and no positive representation to even attempt to challenge or counter it. Sounds like what everyone expected/feared.

 

[Zellia]

Vestan's duration has nothing to do with the OT's release date (he will still be banned when the OT goes up).

Click to shrink...

Oh thank goodness, I was really concerned that his being involved in the OT was the reason for the short ban. Turns out it's just because coming into a thread about trans issues to paint yourself as the real victim is only worth a slap on the wrist instead. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Scarface]

This. Lemme find a nano-violin for this poor person trying to hype a video game that has repeatedly denigrated trans people in its marketing and advertised content. Does his being involved with the OT have any influence on his ban length, I wonder?

Click to shrink...

Of course it did. Just in time to come back and finalize the OT for the game. How convenient.

 

[Lamptramp]

Oh thank goodness, I was really concerned that his being involved in the OT was the reason for the short ban. Turns out it's just because coming into a thread about trans issues to paint yourself as the real victim is only worth a slap on the wrist instead. Thanks for the clarification.

Click to shrink...

 

[Salarians]

I don't even know what to say anymore

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Of course. Just some casual transphobia for flavor, and no positive representation to even attempt to challenge or counter it. Sounds like what everyone expected/feared.

Click to shrink...

I want to be absolutely clear here - I have not played all there is to play.

I have no idea if side missions are more positive in their representations of trans people.

 

[Catvoca]

So if the inclusion of trans representation in the OT was planned the whole time (per the mod post in that thread), then Black Chamber needlessly prodded the trans community with dismissive non answers to the simple question because????

 

[Beth Cyra]

I want to be absolutely clear here - I have not played all there is to play.

I have no idea if side missions are more positive in their representations of trans people.

Click to shrink...

Fair point and there is a small chance they may still have something.

Granted very doubtful and I feel it takes away from the message if it's side content but it is still possible.

 

[Slash]

I haven't been commenting in this thread yet, but I've been reading though and wanted to say that I support Shiron- that statement doesn't deserve a two week ban while Vestan gets a minor slap on the back and a three day ban for being dismissive to the whole community.

 

[Christmastree55]

I just wanna hop in to thank the people in this thread and Era's trans community in helping me understand how transphobia manifests itself in different ways. I've always considered myself to be in favor of trans rights, but interacting with the trans community here has made me see that both my knowledge regarding the subject and my support of trans people have been lacking.

Reading the discussion surrounding the issues with the game made me decide to skip the game. More recently I've learned a lot from all of you awesome people by reading this thread and I wanna keep listening and learning, so I joined my local trans non-profit organization as a monetary supporter (without any say in the organizations decision making since I'm a cishet man). I will keep donating, learning and voting to help the trans people of my country in any way I can.

The recent situation has also made me dissapointed in the forum's handling of the game's OT. Especially since a disclaimer about the issues surrounding the game sounds like a pretty simple thing to do.

Click to shrink...

Good shit. Great job my man.

So if the inclusion of trans representation in the OT was planned the whole time (per the mod post in that thread), then Black Chamber needlessly prodded the trans community with dismissive non answers to the simple question because????

Click to shrink...

For kicks. For laughs. Because it gets himself hard. Does it really fucking matter?

 

[anariel]

So if the inclusion of trans representation in the OT was planned the whole time (per the mod post in that thread), then Black Chamber needlessly prodded the trans community with dismissive non answers to the simple question because????

Click to shrink...

Because we had the gall to take issue with the game in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 24149]

So if the inclusion of trans representation in the OT was planned the whole time (per the mod post in that thread), then Black Chamber needlessly prodded the trans community with dismissive non answers to the simple question because????

Click to shrink...

I'm really confused on this as well. Black Chamber's back and forth with Beth wasn't cool especially if this was set in stone as far back as october.

 

[timedesk]

I want to be absolutely clear here - I have not played all there is to play.

I have no idea if side missions are more positive in their representations of trans people.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for sharing what you've seen so far. I recognize my post is jumping the gun a bit. I hope is some solid representation in the side content, and if there is that will truly be great. I am pretty pessimistic, but will be happy to be wrong. Thanks again for playing through and sharing.

 

[rras1994]

So if the inclusion of trans representation in the OT was planned the whole time (per the mod post in that thread), then Black Chamber needlessly prodded the trans community with dismissive non answers to the simple question because????

Click to shrink...

I would really want to know BlackChamber's response is why he through multiple posts of people asking him to confirm if it would be in the OT, why despite trans members get more upset did he consistantly be vague? It was through multiple posts

 

[Scarface]

I am also in solidarity of Shiron and everyone here. That post was filled with emotion and frustration and we all know why. It is through TransEra that i have learned so much valuable information and insight. A short time ago, I would have considered myself someone ignorant to these issues but i have spent time educating myself and trying to be a good ally and a better person overall and I aim to work on that every day, as I am far from perfect, but I am trying. Most of this was due to the wonderful people on this forum. Your thoughts and contributions are incredibly appreciated even though it may not seem it at times. You are my friends and you deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. Your voices need to be heard, they matter. Just as much as anyone's on this planet. This goes beyond a fucking video game.

I just wanted to say that you are wanted here and i am very disappointed with the way things have been handled the past few days. You are amazing people who deserve all the best in life and the constant hand-waving around here frustrates me to no end. I cant imagine how you all must feel. Such a shame.

Thank you all.

 

[Lamptramp]

I want to be absolutely clear here - I have not played all there is to play.

I have no idea if side missions are more positive in their representations of trans people.

Click to shrink...

Well clearly not important enough to put in the content everyone will play. Perhaps a note on a table may have a trans flag drawn on it for some positive representation. A table in a locked room, behind a sign saying beware of the leopard in a cellar with no lights or stairs.


Thanks for the notes Hobbes.

So if the inclusion of trans representation in the OT was planned the whole time (per the mod post in that thread), then Black Chamber needlessly prodded the trans community with dismissive non answers to the simple question because????

Click to shrink...

Because reasons, the Trans community are a tricky lot, show them even a moments regard for their feelings or empathise with them and they will turn on you and attack! EVERYTHING YOU LOVE WILL BE TAKEN AWAY! Nononono, far better to treat them mean and keep them underfoot with evasiveness and empty words.

 

[deepFlaw]

So if the inclusion of trans representation in the OT was planned the whole time (per the mod post in that thread), then Black Chamber needlessly prodded the trans community with dismissive non answers to the simple question because????

Click to shrink...

I am worried that this will come across as attacking them. But I think the following is the most kind interpretation I can give, so I hope it's acceptable to post.

They were so dedicated to their posting gimmick, the use of emojis and 💯 specifically, that they completely and utterly failed to recognize how incredibly inappropriate it was in that situation rather than giving a serious reply to reasonable requests. Despite months and months of seeing people upset and knowing things like this would be asked of them, as someone who willingly positioned themself as a representative of this game.

That's... the best I can offer.

 

[Pancoar]

Because we had the gall to take issue with the game in the first place.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. He wanted EVERYONE TO ENJOY CYBERPUNK 💯