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deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,488
Always fun to write a lengthy effort-post only for a thread to be closed. We'll see, I guess.

Had we proudly announced that we would be acknowleding the transphobia in the OT of this game, we probably would have been accused of being performatively woke or something as at the end of the day, we're still working on the OT of this game.

Considering I haven't said anything on this particular topic until now, in my opinion it would have rung more genuine if you saw the OT and what we have been doing behind the scenes but it is what it is.

I've been lurking this thread ever since it went up, Android Sophia knows how I feel about all of this and Black Chamber has reiterated his support for this community over multiple posts. Sorry if this is a little bit blunt, but I can understand Black Chamber not wanting to engage both certain posts and certain posters after the way he's been treated. I don't log into Era every day to be interrogated about x, y, or z and I'm sure you don't either.

Black Chamber's comment of everyone being welcome makes perfect sense in the context of what we've been doing and that includes the Trans community. The fact that someone attempted to twist that into some All Lives Matter shite pissed me the fuck off, and I say that as someone who's Black.

It would do some of you wonders to assume we aren't coming into this with ill intentions. We've been caught between a rock and a hard place and dealing with it the best we can. This is our spare time after all, and people have lives to lead.

Peace ☮

People were just asking for a "yes" or even a "no" response to a question, and things could be discussed from there; I feel that want was very clearly stated by a lot of people? Assuming people would attack you over doing that and specifically that this makes it not worth doing is what is actually dismissive; even if some people may have said that (and frankly - fair enough?), it is clear that many others just wanted clarification on this point. I think if you engaged further with trans people here, or even just took in their posts on this, you would see you're really not stuck in quite the situation you think you are.

Regarding the bit about Black Chamber, with all due respect to them: if I were someone who did not want to become engaged with the issues around Cyberpunk, I would simply not post Cyberpunk threads while sporting a Cyberpunk avatar, and become known for doing the former? Because to my understanding, literally the entire reason that Cyberpunk threads are still around here is to keep discussion of its issues alive. So while they are free to talk about the game itself, I think they should absolutely be expected to regularly engage with that if they want to be in those threads, let alone making those threads. Constantly interrogated, obviously not, but I would the best solution would be to make your stances pretty damn clear, even bluntly so, and that's all people wanted from them.
 
Jun 20, 2019
2,638
No one needs to hear "all are welcome!" in a game with transphobic elements. Cis white guys (like me!) have internalized that they're accepted and welcomed wherever we want to go. We don't need to hear it repeated. It's the marginalized communities who can't expect to be safe and welcome who need to have their dignity acknowledged.

Trans folk must be welcome to participate. Watering that down to "everyone is welcome" is performative bullshit.
 
Sep 10, 2020
668
Had we proudly announced that we would be acknowleding the transphobia in the OT of this game, we probably would have been accused of being performatively woke or something as at the end of the day, we're still working on the OT of this game.

Considering I haven't said anything on this particular topic until now, in my opinion it would have rung more genuine if you saw the OT and what we have been doing behind the scenes but it is what it is.

I've been lurking this thread ever since it went up, Android Sophia knows how I feel about all of this and Black Chamber has reiterated his support for this community over multiple posts. Sorry if this is a little bit blunt, but I can understand Black Chamber not wanting to engage both certain posts and certain posters after the way he's been treated. I don't log into Era every day to be interrogated about x, y, or z and I'm sure you don't either.

Black Chamber's comment of everyone being welcome makes perfect sense in the context of what we've been doing and that includes the Trans community. The fact that someone attempted to twist that into some All Lives Matter shite pissed me the fuck off, and I say that as someone who's Black.

It would do some of you wonders to assume we aren't coming into this with ill intentions. We've been caught between a rock and a hard place and dealing with it the best we can. This is our spare time after all, and people have lives to lead.

Peace ☮
Have you even tried to comprehend what trans posters were saying? Jeez, I'm so sorry you and poor Black Chamber are in such a tough spot. Hmmm, I wonder which group of people have had suggestions about how to handle this part of the OT...surely not the trans community, which has been disrespected and denigrated constantly since this thread went up... Oh wait, yeah, it has been the trans community!

I really am baffled that you tried to dismiss those concerns with some straw man shit in this thread. No shit "everyone is welcome" in the thread. No one's been thread banned from something that hasn't even gone up yet. That was an absolute nothing response because he didn't want to have to deal with actual concerns from trans users. Quit defending yourself with shit that doesn't even make sense.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
Had we proudly announced that we would be acknowleding the transphobia in the OT of this game, we probably would have been accused of being performatively woke or something as at the end of the day, we're still working on the OT of this game.

Considering I haven't said anything on this particular topic until now, in my opinion it would have rung more genuine if you saw the OT and what we have been doing behind the scenes but it is what it is.

I've been lurking this thread ever since it went up, Android Sophia knows how I feel about all of this and Black Chamber has reiterated his support for this community over multiple posts. Sorry if this is a little bit blunt, but I can understand Black Chamber not wanting to engage both certain posts and certain posters after the way he's been treated. I don't log into Era every day to be interrogated about x, y, or z and I'm sure you don't either.

Black Chamber's comment of everyone being welcome makes perfect sense in the context of what we've been doing and that includes the Trans community. The fact that someone attempted to twist that into some All Lives Matter shite pissed me the fuck off, and I say that as someone who's Black.

It would do some of you wonders to assume we aren't coming into this with ill intentions. We've been caught between a rock and a hard place and dealing with it the best we can. This is our spare time after all, and people have lives to lead.

Peace ☮
4p4f0j.png
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,238
What nonsense... Given CDPR's history and their consistent refusal to do even the most bare-minimum-completely-full-of-shit-but-at-least-pretends-to-be-genuine apology over their transphobia, nothing short of a boycott is acceptable.

This game should've been banned on this forum, and I'm pretty sure if it was any other company, any other game, it would've been. But I guess it's been decided that CDPR is beyond reproach and keeping the traffic generated from discussing the game is more important than the trans community of this site.

Who cares how exciting that game looks? Why are you giving them your money if you know they're such shits and claim to not like that they are such shits?

I'm just sorry y'all have had to keep dealing with this bullshit.
Eh, I should probably shut up I guess before I get myself in trouble.
 

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,405
Had we proudly announced that we would be acknowleding the transphobia in the OT of this game, we probably would have been accused of being performatively woke or something as at the end of the day, we're still working on the OT of this game.

Considering I haven't said anything on this particular topic until now, in my opinion it would have rung more genuine if you saw the OT and what we have been doing behind the scenes but it is what it is.

I've been lurking this thread ever since it went up, Android Sophia knows how I feel about all of this and Black Chamber has reiterated his support for this community over multiple posts. Sorry if this is a little bit blunt, but I can understand Black Chamber not wanting to engage both certain posts and certain posters after the way he's been treated. I don't log into Era every day to be interrogated about x, y, or z and I'm sure you don't either.

Black Chamber's comment of everyone being welcome makes perfect sense in the context of what we've been doing and that includes the Trans community. The fact that someone attempted to twist that into some All Lives Matter shite pissed me the fuck off, and I say that as someone who's Black.

It would do some of you wonders to assume we aren't coming into this with ill intentions. We've been caught between a rock and a hard place and dealing with it the best we can. This is our spare time after all, and people have lives to lead.

Peace ☮

those nasty sjws oppressing us by...asking for the bare minimum of acknowledging cdpr's transphobia lmao. what an embarrassing post. Peace ☮
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,621
Hamburg, Germany
Yeah that post wasn't exactly the best way to go lol. Everything I thought of has already been said since it was posted so I'll leave it at that.
 

RugoUniverse

Member
May 15, 2018
1,006
What a wildly disappointing day on Era as so many of you have reiterated. The fact that the CP thread was locked instead of just given a mod message and thus shutting down discussion and subsequently redirecting the negativity *once again* to this thread is baffling and more than a bit pathetic. It blows my mind that an OT is even still happening but I guess that's the real Era isn't it?
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
Apologies, but wouldn't having the eventual paragraph written by one of you (i think Kiuujy would be the chosen one) be a pretty fireproof way to ensure everything is presented in the best and most comprehensive way?

I think the "show of support" is in the inclusion of the paragraph itself.
This is kinda confusing :s
Gabe the game these people they are hyping used us to sell this damn product. This thread and all its hype is partly built on Trans imagery, these are facts.

also facts this Imagery has been largely damaging to us and all we are asking is for the community on Era to recognize what has happened, that a supposed Ally at least take the time to realize that yes they love the game, yes they love the company, yes they are hype...but we are still people and they care enough to say they want us there after we hurt and used.

y'all got to remember they where answering things about their OT already. Between that and Kyuuji showing kindness I asked if they would say something to us.

Neither now nor then did I want to dictate the content of said blurb with links or posts or whatever. I wanted a basic blurb that showed real support to us on Era, not to come in here and say how they feel for us...not *here is one charity money so I can play the game* or *I never thought about these things before, thank you for sharing.*

One of the single hardest and most painful aspects I've learned being a Minority is that we don't get help unless we demand it and force a place for it, I gave our CisAllies a chance to say a simple yes.

If there ends up being one great, however the idea that I or we as a community asked to much from our CisAllies can fuck right off.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 52442

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
10,774
What a wildly disappointing day on Era as so many of you have reiterated. The fact that the CP thread was locked instead of just given a mod message and thus shutting down discussion and subsequently redirecting the negativity *once again* to this thread is baffling and more than a bit pathetic. It blows my mind that an OT is even still happening but I guess that's the real Era isn't it?


It would take some real courage for ERA to straight up not allow an OT
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
Had we proudly announced that we would be acknowleding the transphobia in the OT of this game, we probably would have been accused of being performatively woke or something as at the end of the day, we're still working on the OT of this game.

Considering I haven't said anything on this particular topic until now, in my opinion it would have rung more genuine if you saw the OT and what we have been doing behind the scenes but it is what it is.

I've been lurking this thread ever since it went up, Android Sophia knows how I feel about all of this and Black Chamber has reiterated his support for this community over multiple posts. Sorry if this is a little bit blunt, but I can understand Black Chamber not wanting to engage both certain posts and certain posters after the way he's been treated. I don't log into Era every day to be interrogated about x, y, or z and I'm sure you don't either.

Black Chamber's comment of everyone being welcome makes perfect sense in the context of what we've been doing and that includes the Trans community. The fact that someone attempted to twist that into some All Lives Matter shite pissed me the fuck off, and I say that as someone who's Black.

It would do some of you wonders to assume we aren't coming into this with ill intentions. We've been caught between a rock and a hard place and dealing with it the best we can. This is our spare time after all, and people have lives to lead.

Peace ☮
Y'know what? I'll eat the ban for this.

Go to fucking hell. You fucking coward.

"Rock and a hard place by foot."

All people wanted was fucking acknowledgment. A yes or no answer.

Neither you or Black Chamber are the fucking victims here and FUCK YOU for even slightly, even having to gall to present yourselves as such in even the slyest of ways.

Black Chamber in particular was given every chance, every fucking chance, and refused every one of them.

All Black Chamber had to do was just post something akin to what Android Sophia locked the thread with:
www.resetera.com

Cyberpunk 2077 Night City WIRE: Episode 5 |OT| Time moves in one direction, memory in another [Media Impressions, Console Footage & Discussion] OT

We're temporarily locking this thread due to the number of reports that it's generating. However... I can confirm that Black Chamber and vestan have been working with me on this, and that they've always intended to include something. I reached back out to them in early-to-mid October in...
I can confirm that Black Chamber and vestan have been working with me on this, and that they've always intended to include something. I reached back out to them in early-to-mid October in regards to the thread lock and staff post, and they've been nothing but fully supportive. They've even proposed some fantastic ideas of their own of their own volition, which we intend to incorporate.

Safe to say, I'm a little bit disappointed to wake up and see how this thread has gone. We'll be re-opening it after we've reviewed the reports extensively.

If this is what Black Chamber had said TO FUCKING BEGIN WITH, THERE WOULD BE NO FUCKING ISSUE.

Instead, they dodged, beat around the bush, refused to say fuck all but "everyone is welcome."

If that's indeed how Black Chamber feels, why couldn't they have just said what Android Sophia said?

Why was that so easy for her to say, but so hard for him?

Like I said, trust is a very, VERY hard thing to regain once you've lost it, and Black Chambers' post history in that thread vs. Android Sophia's said it all. Or put another way, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first goddamn time, and Black Chamber had plenty of opportunities to show who he is, and well, it's no one's fault but his that I'm taking him at his word based on what he fucking showed. Don't want people to think of you that way? Show a better side of it. Definitely don't show a terrible side and expect people to understand you're really good or to believe you later. Nope, just like Maya Angelou, I'll believe you the first time, thank you very much, as there's no reason not to be genuine from the start if that was the intent.

If that's indeed the game plan, as Android Sophia said, then why was it so hard for Black Chamber to say the same thing to begin with? Why couldn't he have said that? Why did he burn every bridge and opportunity instead of just saying the same goddamn thing from step one?

Fuck him and his nonsense. Like, Android Sophia is one thing and I might be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

But Black Chamber?

Nuh uh.

Not happening.

Zip. Zero. Zilch. Going there. He can get fucked.

As that's something I can't wrap my head around, not in any any way that begins to be defensible.

Why was it so easy for Sophia to say that, but Black Chamber? Refused at every opportunity.

No matter what Sophia may say, that in no way justifies Black Chambers only behavior, which makes no sense and is not justifiable no matter how you slice it, especially, ESPEICALLY as Sophia claims, if that was indeed the plan to begin with, Black Chamber HAD EVEN LESS REASON to be so cagey about whether that's something he'd do or not.

According to her side of the story, that was indeed the plan to begin with?

SO WHY COULDN'T BLACK CHAMBER HIMSELF FUCKING SAY THAT? THAT GIVES HIM EVEN LESS REASON TO BE CAGEY, AND MAKES HIS BEHAVIOR AND POSTS IN THE THREAD ALL THE MORE BAFFLING, NOT LESS!

WHAT REASON IS THERE TO HIDE THAT, IF THAT WAS INDEED THE PLAN, OTHER THAN TO DELIBERATELY MAKE PEOPLE MORE HOSTILE LIKE THIS?

WHAT POSSIBLE REASON IS THERE AT ALL?

Assuming what Sophia is saying is true, which I have no particular reason to doubt I suppose, that just makes everything that much more confusing, because indeed, if that was the intent all along regardless, why string people along like a decision hadn't been made or in any way deliberately not be clear at all?

If a decision had been made, but he pretended like one hasn't, despite how that was increasing tensions among everyone, and that being very visible, and doing it anyway, despite the actual decision already being made... well, that sounds pretty much like the definition of trolling to me (fully planning to put what was requested in the OP and just not saying it for whatever goddamn reason and letting tensions get enflamed instead), and is in no way worthy of respect or really worthy of anything less than a ban for playing such a stupid pathetic fucking game instead of just being honest about something he had no reason, none, to not be honest about to begin with.

And like I said, don't give me any "between a rock and a hard place" stuff because a.) you ain't the victims here and b.) the existence of Android Sophia's post, which closed the thread, and is all that needed to be said to begin with, completely contradicts that regardless.

Trans Rights motherfuckers, and I know I'll get banned for this post, and it will be worth every fucking second of it, because fuck the nonsense Black Chamber was pulling in the thread, fuck any defense of it, and I am with the transgender members of this site all the way and will happily eat a ban to speak my mind on this, which is that this is all complete garbage which there is no defense for, which should have never happened, and fuck anyone who says otherwise.

Trans. Motherfucking. Rights.

Whoo, that felt good to let that all out. See you guys on the other side whenever I see you I guess, and yeah, just know that I'm happy to eat a ban for you guys anyday, even if I shouldn't have to at all.

Lot of love, and you're all awesome. <3

#TransRights
 
Last edited:

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Honestly don't like the implication that trans members would have still been aggressive and found something to be mad with even if Black Chamber had said there would be a paragraph on the issue, that's really unfair to imply. The replies from Black Chamber were shitty, they just were. Maybe at first he wouldn't understand why people would be upset and was trying to do a wink nudge thing but afterall the replies could he not tell that trans members were genuinely worried it was going to be swept under the carpet? I really don't understand why he was doing what he was doing at all?
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
Y'know what? I'll eat the ban for this.

Go to fucking hell. You fucking coward.

"Rock and a hard place by foot."

All people wanted was fucking acknowledgment. A yes or no answer.

Neither you or Black Chamber are the fucking victims here and FUCK YOU for even slightly, even having to gall to present yourselves as such in even the slyest of ways.

Black Chamber in particular was given every chance, every fucking chance, and refused every one of them.

All Black Chamber had to do was just post something akin to what Android Sophia locked the thread with:
www.resetera.com

Cyberpunk 2077 Night City WIRE: Episode 5 |OT| Time moves in one direction, memory in another [Media Impressions, Console Footage & Discussion] OT

We're temporarily locking this thread due to the number of reports that it's generating. However... I can confirm that Black Chamber and vestan have been working with me on this, and that they've always intended to include something. I reached back out to them in early-to-mid October in...


If this is what Black Chamber had said TO FUCKING BEGIN WITH, THERE WOULD BE NO FUCKING ISSUE.

Instead, they dodged, beat around the bush, refused to say fuck all but "everyone is welcome."

If that's indeed how Black Chamber feels, why couldn't they have just said what Android Sophia said?

Why was that so easy for her to say, but so hard for him?

Like I said, trust is a very, VERY hard thing to regain once you've lost it, and Black Chambers' post history in that thread vs. Android Sophia's said it all. Or put another way, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first goddamn time, and Black Chamber had plenty of opportunities to show who he is, and well, it's no one's fault but his that I'm taking him at his word based on what he fucking showed. Don't want people to think of you that way? Show a better side of it. Definitely don't show a terrible side and expect people to understand you're really good or to believe you later. Nope, just like Maya Angelou, I'll believe you the first time, thank you very much, as there's no reason not to be genuine from the start if that was the intent.

If that's indeed the game plan, as Android Sophia said, then why was it so hard for Black Chamber to say the same thing to begin with? Why couldn't he have said that? Why did he burn every bridge and opportunity instead of just saying the same goddamn thing from step one?

Fuck him and his nonsense. Like, Android Sophia is one thing and I might be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

But Black Chamber?

Nuh uh.

Not happening.

Zip. Zero. Zilch. Going there. He can get fucked.

As that's something I can't wrap my head around, not in any any way that begins to be defensible.

Why was it so easy for Sophia to say that, but Black Chamber? Refused at every opportunity.

No matter what Sophia may say, that in no way justifies Black Chambers only behavior, which makes no sense and is not justifiable no matter how you slice it, especially, ESPEICALLY as Sophia claims, if that was indeed the plan to begin with, Black Chamber HAD EVEN LESS REASON to be so cagey about whether that's something he'd do or not.

According to her side of the story, that was indeed the plan to begin with?

SO WHY COULDN'T BLACK CHAMBER HIMSELF FUCKING SAY THAT? THAT GIVES HIM EVEN LESS REASON TO BE CAGEY, AND MAKES HIS BEHAVIOR AND POSTS IN THE THREAD ALL THE MORE BAFFLING, NOT LESS!

WHAT REASON IS THERE TO HIDE THAT, IF THAT WAS INDEED THE PLAN, OTHER THAN TO DELIBERATELY MAKE PEOPLE MORE HOSTILE LIKE THIS?

WHAT POSSIBLE REASON IS THERE AT ALL?

And like I said, don't give me any "between a rock and a hard place" stuff because a.) you ain't the victims here and b.) the existence of Android Sophia's post, which closed the thread, and is all that needed to be said to begin with, completely contradicts that regardless.

Trans Rights motherfuckers, and I know I'll get banned for this post, and it will be worth every fucking second of it, because fuck the nonsense Black Chamber was pulling in the thread, fuck any defense of it, and I am with the transgender members of this site all the way and will happily eat a ban to speak my mind on this, which is that this is all complete garbage which there is no defense for, which should have never happened, and fuck anyone who says otherwise.

Trans. Motherfucking. Rights.

Whoo, that felt good to let that all out. See you guys on the other side whenever I see you I guess, and yeah, just know that I'm happy to eat a ban for you guys anyday, even if I shouldn't have to at all.

Lot of love, and you're all awesome. <3

#TransRights
Love the passion good sir, and I'll join as what I'm gunna say will not be popular either.

Sophia's opinion on this doesn't mean Jack shit outside or Managerial. They are who and what they are, but they do not speak for the Trans Community, all this work they've done with these people are back ground, they may effect her but they do not effect this community publicly or help the Trans users that see these threads, that asks for a simple space to be acknowledged.

Is Sophia a good mod? Maybe so, don't really care as I tend to not trust authority. Is Sophia not realizing how much unrest there is? Doubtful they seem smart. Is Sophia out of line saying they are disappointed after going on a long rant about how these two people have only truly shown support in the shadows to them? Yes, yea they are.

They have a position of power, one we general Trans Era users don't have, and no matter how much these users are willing to help behind the scenes it isn't good enough when they won't do it publicly where the majority of us can see it.
 

anariel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
961
Y'know what? I'll eat the ban for this.

Go to fucking hell. You fucking coward.

"Rock and a hard place by foot."

All people wanted was fucking acknowledgment. A yes or no answer.

Neither you or Black Chamber are the fucking victims here and FUCK YOU for even slightly, even having to gall to present yourselves as such in even the slyest of ways.

Black Chamber in particular was given every chance, every fucking chance, and refused every one of them.

All Black Chamber had to do was just post something akin to what Android Sophia locked the thread with:
www.resetera.com

Cyberpunk 2077 Night City WIRE: Episode 5 |OT| Time moves in one direction, memory in another [Media Impressions, Console Footage & Discussion] OT

We're temporarily locking this thread due to the number of reports that it's generating. However... I can confirm that Black Chamber and vestan have been working with me on this, and that they've always intended to include something. I reached back out to them in early-to-mid October in...


If this is what Black Chamber had said TO FUCKING BEGIN WITH, THERE WOULD BE NO FUCKING ISSUE.

Instead, they dodged, beat around the bush, refused to say fuck all but "everyone is welcome."

If that's indeed how Black Chamber feels, why couldn't they have just said what Android Sophia said?

Why was that so easy for her to say, but so hard for him?

Like I said, trust is a very, VERY hard thing to regain once you've lost it, and Black Chambers' post history in that thread vs. Android Sophia's said it all. Or put another way, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first goddamn time, and Black Chamber had plenty of opportunities to show who he is, and well, it's no one's fault but his that I'm taking him at his word based on what he fucking showed. Don't want people to think of you that way? Show a better side of it. Definitely don't show a terrible side and expect people to understand you're really good or to believe you later. Nope, just like Maya Angelou, I'll believe you the first time, thank you very much, as there's no reason not to be genuine from the start if that was the intent.

If that's indeed the game plan, as Android Sophia said, then why was it so hard for Black Chamber to say the same thing to begin with? Why couldn't he have said that? Why did he burn every bridge and opportunity instead of just saying the same goddamn thing from step one?

Fuck him and his nonsense. Like, Android Sophia is one thing and I might be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

But Black Chamber?

Nuh uh.

Not happening.

Zip. Zero. Zilch. Going there. He can get fucked.

As that's something I can't wrap my head around, not in any any way that begins to be defensible.

Why was it so easy for Sophia to say that, but Black Chamber? Refused at every opportunity.

No matter what Sophia may say, that in no way justifies Black Chambers only behavior, which makes no sense and is not justifiable no matter how you slice it, especially, ESPEICALLY as Sophia claims, if that was indeed the plan to begin with, Black Chamber HAD EVEN LESS REASON to be so cagey about whether that's something he'd do or not.

According to her side of the story, that was indeed the plan to begin with?

SO WHY COULDN'T BLACK CHAMBER HIMSELF FUCKING SAY THAT? THAT GIVES HIM EVEN LESS REASON TO BE CAGEY, AND MAKES HIS BEHAVIOR AND POSTS IN THE THREAD ALL THE MORE BAFFLING, NOT LESS!

WHAT REASON IS THERE TO HIDE THAT, IF THAT WAS INDEED THE PLAN, OTHER THAN TO DELIBERATELY MAKE PEOPLE MORE HOSTILE LIKE THIS?

WHAT POSSIBLE REASON IS THERE AT ALL?

Assuming what Sophia is saying is true, which I have no particular reason to doubt I suppose, that just makes everything that much more confusing, because indeed, if that was the intent all along regardless, why string people along like a decision hadn't been made or in any way deliberately not be clear at all?

If a decision had been made, but he pretended like one hasn't, despite how that was increasing tensions among everyone, and that being very visible, and doing it anyway, despite the actual decision already being made... well, that sounds pretty much like the definition of trolling to me (fully planning to put what was requested in the OP and just not saying it for whatever goddamn reason and letting tensions get enflamed instead), and is in no way worthy of respect or really worthy of anything less than a ban for playing such a stupid pathetic fucking game instead of just being honest about something he had no reason, none, to not be honest about to begin with.

And like I said, don't give me any "between a rock and a hard place" stuff because a.) you ain't the victims here and b.) the existence of Android Sophia's post, which closed the thread, and is all that needed to be said to begin with, completely contradicts that regardless.

Trans Rights motherfuckers, and I know I'll get banned for this post, and it will be worth every fucking second of it, because fuck the nonsense Black Chamber was pulling in the thread, fuck any defense of it, and I am with the transgender members of this site all the way and will happily eat a ban to speak my mind on this, which is that this is all complete garbage which there is no defense for, which should have never happened, and fuck anyone who says otherwise.

Trans. Motherfucking. Rights.

Whoo, that felt good to let that all out. See you guys on the other side whenever I see you I guess, and yeah, just know that I'm happy to eat a ban for you guys anyday, even if I shouldn't have to at all.

Lot of love, and you're all awesome. <3

#TransRights
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,621
Hamburg, Germany
Probably wouldn't have said it like ShironRedshift did, but I agree that Chamber had a lot of chances to build trust on this, not only in this particular reply, but over the entirety of this thread and the gazillion of cyberpunk "OT" threads they created. I personally think they are ignoring the whole thing not out of actual malice but simple ignorance and maybe fear of saying something wrong, may it be wilfully or not. But, and on this you are absolutely one hundred percent right, they had literally months to say something, anything else than "everyone is welcome", because what the fuck is that even implying towards other threads.

Whole situation sucks and it's sad it came to this, but Era (by which I mean the people running the site, not users or even mods) needs to put up our shut up at this point and have a clear stance if they want this place to be truly inclusive. "Everyone is welcome" is literally the barest minimum and very likely not enough anymore.
 

purseowner

From the mirror universe
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,444
UK
It's his ignoring of a whole page worth's of thoughtful and empathetic posts on the issue asking him to add an acknowledgement to the OT, followed by an emoji response to my sarcastic joke post that rubs me up the wrong way. If Black Chamber is interacting in good faith, they can answer the question themselves.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
Love the passion good sir, and I'll join as what I'm gunna say will not be popular either.

Sophia's opinion on this doesn't mean Jack shit outside or Managerial. They are who and what they are, but they do not speak for the Trans Community, all this work they've done with these people are back ground, they may effect her but they do not effect this community publicly or help the Trans users that see these threads, that asks for a simple space to be acknowledged.

Is Sophia a good mod? Maybe so, don't really care as I tend to not trust authority. Is Sophia not realizing how much unrest there is? Doubtful they seem smart. Is Sophia out of line saying they are disappointed after going on a long rant about how these two people have only truly shown support in the shadows to them? Yes, yea they are.

They have a position of power, one we general Trans Era users don't have, and no matter how much these users are willing to help behind the scenes it isn't good enough when they won't do it publicly where the majority of us can see it.
Like honestly, yeah, now that you mad it, I'm getting mad at her to. Because she just decided to lock the thread so it can be reviewed while defending Black Chamber.

But if what she's saying is true, she herself should know that Black Chamber was full of it in that thread. As like I said, if that were indeed the plan all along, there was no reason for him to act like he did.

So why defend him at all? Why even give him the pretense of a defense?

His words and actions in that thread speak for themselves.

And if what she's saying is true, that only makes them that much worse if anything, because that means that he did indeed have an answer in mind, that he knew full well what he was doing, but still did it anyway, which only lead to heightened tensions and people getting upset for no reason when he could have been honest to begin with.

There's nothing to defend there, but from her post, it seems like she's trying to mount a defense anyway for reasons that are beyond me.

Because indeed, perhaps he is fully supportive "behind the scenes."

But that means nothing if he's not supportive in the open, and he was anything BUT supportive in that thread.

And if the plan was indeed to do what people requested all along, that makes him being cagey make even less sense and makes me able to see it as nothing other than trolling, so...?

So yeah, thinking about that gives me a lower opinion of her as well. As I can't speak for her reasons for defending that or trying to, but they don't speak well either, because however supportive he may be behind the scenes, he was the exact opposite of that in that thread, so that really doesn't make a difference to me, and insofar as it does make a difference, that just further seems to confirm his behavior as nothing short of trolling and banworthy in that case, and certainly not worthy of any defense, or at least that's how I feel.
 

Everill

Banned
Dec 2, 2018
401
Y'know what? I'll eat the ban for this.

Go to fucking hell. You fucking coward.

"Rock and a hard place by foot."

All people wanted was fucking acknowledgment. A yes or no answer.

Neither you or Black Chamber are the fucking victims here and FUCK YOU for even slightly, even having to gall to present yourselves as such in even the slyest of ways.

Black Chamber in particular was given every chance, every fucking chance, and refused every one of them.

All Black Chamber had to do was just post something akin to what Android Sophia locked the thread with:
www.resetera.com

Cyberpunk 2077 Night City WIRE: Episode 5 |OT| Time moves in one direction, memory in another [Media Impressions, Console Footage & Discussion] OT

We're temporarily locking this thread due to the number of reports that it's generating. However... I can confirm that Black Chamber and vestan have been working with me on this, and that they've always intended to include something. I reached back out to them in early-to-mid October in...


If this is what Black Chamber had said TO FUCKING BEGIN WITH, THERE WOULD BE NO FUCKING ISSUE.

Instead, they dodged, beat around the bush, refused to say fuck all but "everyone is welcome."

If that's indeed how Black Chamber feels, why couldn't they have just said what Android Sophia said?

Why was that so easy for her to say, but so hard for him?

Like I said, trust is a very, VERY hard thing to regain once you've lost it, and Black Chambers' post history in that thread vs. Android Sophia's said it all. Or put another way, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first goddamn time, and Black Chamber had plenty of opportunities to show who he is, and well, it's no one's fault but his that I'm taking him at his word based on what he fucking showed. Don't want people to think of you that way? Show a better side of it. Definitely don't show a terrible side and expect people to understand you're really good or to believe you later. Nope, just like Maya Angelou, I'll believe you the first time, thank you very much, as there's no reason not to be genuine from the start if that was the intent.

If that's indeed the game plan, as Android Sophia said, then why was it so hard for Black Chamber to say the same thing to begin with? Why couldn't he have said that? Why did he burn every bridge and opportunity instead of just saying the same goddamn thing from step one?

Fuck him and his nonsense. Like, Android Sophia is one thing and I might be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

But Black Chamber?

Nuh uh.

Not happening.

Zip. Zero. Zilch. Going there. He can get fucked.

As that's something I can't wrap my head around, not in any any way that begins to be defensible.

Why was it so easy for Sophia to say that, but Black Chamber? Refused at every opportunity.

No matter what Sophia may say, that in no way justifies Black Chambers only behavior, which makes no sense and is not justifiable no matter how you slice it, especially, ESPEICALLY as Sophia claims, if that was indeed the plan to begin with, Black Chamber HAD EVEN LESS REASON to be so cagey about whether that's something he'd do or not.

According to her side of the story, that was indeed the plan to begin with?

SO WHY COULDN'T BLACK CHAMBER HIMSELF FUCKING SAY THAT? THAT GIVES HIM EVEN LESS REASON TO BE CAGEY, AND MAKES HIS BEHAVIOR AND POSTS IN THE THREAD ALL THE MORE BAFFLING, NOT LESS!

WHAT REASON IS THERE TO HIDE THAT, IF THAT WAS INDEED THE PLAN, OTHER THAN TO DELIBERATELY MAKE PEOPLE MORE HOSTILE LIKE THIS?

WHAT POSSIBLE REASON IS THERE AT ALL?

Assuming what Sophia is saying is true, which I have no particular reason to doubt I suppose, that just makes everything that much more confusing, because indeed, if that was the intent all along regardless, why string people along like a decision hadn't been made or in any way deliberately not be clear at all?

If a decision had been made, but he pretended like one hasn't, despite how that was increasing tensions among everyone, and that being very visible, and doing it anyway, despite the actual decision already being made... well, that sounds pretty much like the definition of trolling to me (fully planning to put what was requested in the OP and just not saying it for whatever goddamn reason and letting tensions get enflamed instead), and is in no way worthy of respect or really worthy of anything less than a ban for playing such a stupid pathetic fucking game instead of just being honest about something he had no reason, none, to not be honest about to begin with.

And like I said, don't give me any "between a rock and a hard place" stuff because a.) you ain't the victims here and b.) the existence of Android Sophia's post, which closed the thread, and is all that needed to be said to begin with, completely contradicts that regardless.

Trans Rights motherfuckers, and I know I'll get banned for this post, and it will be worth every fucking second of it, because fuck the nonsense Black Chamber was pulling in the thread, fuck any defense of it, and I am with the transgender members of this site all the way and will happily eat a ban to speak my mind on this, which is that this is all complete garbage which there is no defense for, which should have never happened, and fuck anyone who says otherwise.

Trans. Motherfucking. Rights.

Whoo, that felt good to let that all out. See you guys on the other side whenever I see you I guess, and yeah, just know that I'm happy to eat a ban for you guys anyday, even if I shouldn't have to at all.

Lot of love, and you're all awesome. <3

#TransRights
Love the passion good sir, and I'll join as what I'm gunna say will not be popular either.

Sophia's opinion on this doesn't mean Jack shit outside or Managerial. They are who and what they are, but they do not speak for the Trans Community, all this work they've done with these people are back ground, they may effect her but they do not effect this community publicly or help the Trans users that see these threads, that asks for a simple space to be acknowledged.

Is Sophia a good mod? Maybe so, don't really care as I tend to not trust authority. Is Sophia not realizing how much unrest there is? Doubtful they seem smart. Is Sophia out of line saying they are disappointed after going on a long rant about how these two people have only truly shown support in the shadows to them? Yes, yea they are.

They have a position of power, one we general Trans Era users don't have, and no matter how much these users are willing to help behind the scenes it isn't good enough when they won't do it publicly where the majority of us can see it.
Thank you both for these two posts, I agree
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
Like honestly, yeah, now that you mad it, I'm getting mad at her to. Because she just decided to lock the thread so it can be reviewed while defending Black Chamber.

But if what she's saying is true, she herself should know that Black Chamber was full of it in that thread. As like I said, if that were indeed the plan all along, there was no reason for him to act like he did.

So why defend him at all? Why even give him the pretense of a defense?

His words and actions in that thread speak for themselves.

And if what she's saying is true, that only makes them that much worse if anything, because that means that he did indeed have an answer in mind, that he knew full well what he was doing, but still did it anyway, which only lead to heightened tensions and people getting upset for no reason when he could have been honest to begin with.

There's nothing to defend there, but from her post, it seems like she's trying to mount a defense anyway for reasons that are beyond me.

Because indeed, perhaps he is fully supportive "behind the scenes."

But that means nothing if he's not supportive in the open, and he was anything BUT supportive in that thread.

And if the plan was indeed to do what people requested all along, that makes him being cagey make even less sense and makes me able to see it as nothing other than trolling, so...?

So yeah, thinking about that gives me a lower opinion of her as well. As I can't speak for her reasons for defending that or trying to, but they don't speak well either, because however supportive he may be behind the scenes, he was the exact opposite of that in that thread, so that really doesn't make a difference to me, and insofar as it does make a difference, that just further seems to confirm his behavior as nothing short of trolling and banworthy in that case, and certainly not worthy of any defense, or at least that's how I feel.
As much as I agree and I do.

Don't be mad, be weary and always remember. Being mad leads you to be like me where you dislike and distrust almost everyone.

You seem like a good person with a good heart, and all I can say is if we eat bans your post has done more than the majority of posts outside of those by Trans Era and Hobbs to make me feel welcome and seen here by other members.
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
The thing is, if people want a place to discuss the game without talking about the transphobia, they have Reddit. ResetEra's mission statement includes being a safe space for marginalized groups, including the trans community, and so they should be able to discuss that openly. If people think it's tiring, they can ignore.

If Era's management has an issue with the trans community and its allies pressing Black Chamber for an answer, they should either reconsider their mission statement or understand why the community feels unwelcome in the OTs, as well as constantly hurt.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Love the passion good sir, and I'll join as what I'm gunna say will not be popular either.

Sophia's opinion on this doesn't mean Jack shit outside or Managerial. They are who and what they are, but they do not speak for the Trans Community, all this work they've done with these people are back ground, they may effect her but they do not effect this community publicly or help the Trans users that see these threads, that asks for a simple space to be acknowledged.

Is Sophia a good mod? Maybe so, don't really care as I tend to not trust authority. Is Sophia not realizing how much unrest there is? Doubtful they seem smart. Is Sophia out of line saying they are disappointed after going on a long rant about how these two people have only truly shown support in the shadows to them? Yes, yea they are.

They have a position of power, one we general Trans Era users don't have, and no matter how much these users are willing to help behind the scenes it isn't good enough when they won't do it publicly where the majority of us can see it.
Aren't Sophia's pronouns She/Her? It says it under her name unless I missed something?
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
You spent most of the time referring to her as They? Is that one of her pronouns as well?
Holy shit...they and them is a general way speaking English in regards to everyone.

It is specifically a non-gendered way of speaking of someone that does not carry negativity or malice.

Not to mention I don't like to only focus on a persons Gender if it isn't relevant. Sophia is who they are regardless of Gender and I was speaking to their actions NOT who they are..when again I called them a she. To much of our community is tied to binaries and while we should encourage the a bianry for people who want it, I like to talk so everyone is included.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Holy shit...they and them is a general way speaking English in regards to everyone.

It is specifically a non-gendered way of speaking of someone that does not carry negativity or malice.
I just found the change from her to they a bit jilting in the paragraph and wondered if it was a pronoun she used as well and I'd missed something? You don't usually use they in english if you know their pronoun or unless it is their specifed pronon of a person. Literally was just asking if she also used they.
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
Not
I just found the change from her to they a bit jilting in the paragraph and wondered if it was a pronoun she used as well and I'd missed something? You don't usually use they in english if you know their pronoun or unless it is their specifed pronon of a person. Literally was just asking if she also used they.
I just said I don't know them though, like I know nothing about this person.

Also not sure where your from but I call people they/them several times a day.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
You spent most of the time referring to her as They? Is that one of her pronouns as well?
Just to clear up this particular point in my case since it applies to me too because I've referred to Black Chamber as "they" just because "they" is a gender-neutral default I use when I'm not sure what pronouns someone wants and am to frustrated or busy or whatever to check, and use to play it safe, especially since singular they is very much a thing in English and has been for hundreds of years. Of course, I know all that could be cleared up by checking and really is no excuse and is why I've switched to male pronouns once I got a chance/calmed down a bit, but that's at least why I default to "they" a lot in these kind of situations. Because it just kinda is a default for me when I don't know and is a better-safe-than-sorry type of thing and my own way of showing respect when I don't know and is not something I mean any offense by.
 

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
But yeah if something isn't done I'll probably consider leaving era idk as much as I want to fight for a better forum I can only take so much losses for it to just not be worth it even if I stayed making silly threads. Like I'm sure alot of people feel pretty defeated after all of this I just dunno. I really don't want a second trans era exodus but I also just feel tired.
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois
Y'know what? I'll eat the ban for this.

Go to fucking hell. You fucking coward.

"Rock and a hard place by foot."

All people wanted was fucking acknowledgment. A yes or no answer.

Neither you or Black Chamber are the fucking victims here and FUCK YOU for even slightly, even having to gall to present yourselves as such in even the slyest of ways.

Black Chamber in particular was given every chance, every fucking chance, and refused every one of them.

All Black Chamber had to do was just post something akin to what Android Sophia locked the thread with:
www.resetera.com

Cyberpunk 2077 Night City WIRE: Episode 5 |OT| Time moves in one direction, memory in another [Media Impressions, Console Footage & Discussion] OT

We're temporarily locking this thread due to the number of reports that it's generating. However... I can confirm that Black Chamber and vestan have been working with me on this, and that they've always intended to include something. I reached back out to them in early-to-mid October in...


If this is what Black Chamber had said TO FUCKING BEGIN WITH, THERE WOULD BE NO FUCKING ISSUE.

Instead, they dodged, beat around the bush, refused to say fuck all but "everyone is welcome."

If that's indeed how Black Chamber feels, why couldn't they have just said what Android Sophia said?

Why was that so easy for her to say, but so hard for him?

Like I said, trust is a very, VERY hard thing to regain once you've lost it, and Black Chambers' post history in that thread vs. Android Sophia's said it all. Or put another way, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first goddamn time, and Black Chamber had plenty of opportunities to show who he is, and well, it's no one's fault but his that I'm taking him at his word based on what he fucking showed. Don't want people to think of you that way? Show a better side of it. Definitely don't show a terrible side and expect people to understand you're really good or to believe you later. Nope, just like Maya Angelou, I'll believe you the first time, thank you very much, as there's no reason not to be genuine from the start if that was the intent.

If that's indeed the game plan, as Android Sophia said, then why was it so hard for Black Chamber to say the same thing to begin with? Why couldn't he have said that? Why did he burn every bridge and opportunity instead of just saying the same goddamn thing from step one?

Fuck him and his nonsense. Like, Android Sophia is one thing and I might be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

But Black Chamber?

Nuh uh.

Not happening.

Zip. Zero. Zilch. Going there. He can get fucked.

As that's something I can't wrap my head around, not in any any way that begins to be defensible.

Why was it so easy for Sophia to say that, but Black Chamber? Refused at every opportunity.

No matter what Sophia may say, that in no way justifies Black Chambers only behavior, which makes no sense and is not justifiable no matter how you slice it, especially, ESPEICALLY as Sophia claims, if that was indeed the plan to begin with, Black Chamber HAD EVEN LESS REASON to be so cagey about whether that's something he'd do or not.

According to her side of the story, that was indeed the plan to begin with?

SO WHY COULDN'T BLACK CHAMBER HIMSELF FUCKING SAY THAT? THAT GIVES HIM EVEN LESS REASON TO BE CAGEY, AND MAKES HIS BEHAVIOR AND POSTS IN THE THREAD ALL THE MORE BAFFLING, NOT LESS!

WHAT REASON IS THERE TO HIDE THAT, IF THAT WAS INDEED THE PLAN, OTHER THAN TO DELIBERATELY MAKE PEOPLE MORE HOSTILE LIKE THIS?

WHAT POSSIBLE REASON IS THERE AT ALL?

Assuming what Sophia is saying is true, which I have no particular reason to doubt I suppose, that just makes everything that much more confusing, because indeed, if that was the intent all along regardless, why string people along like a decision hadn't been made or in any way deliberately not be clear at all?

If a decision had been made, but he pretended like one hasn't, despite how that was increasing tensions among everyone, and that being very visible, and doing it anyway, despite the actual decision already being made... well, that sounds pretty much like the definition of trolling to me (fully planning to put what was requested in the OP and just not saying it for whatever goddamn reason and letting tensions get enflamed instead), and is in no way worthy of respect or really worthy of anything less than a ban for playing such a stupid pathetic fucking game instead of just being honest about something he had no reason, none, to not be honest about to begin with.

And like I said, don't give me any "between a rock and a hard place" stuff because a.) you ain't the victims here and b.) the existence of Android Sophia's post, which closed the thread, and is all that needed to be said to begin with, completely contradicts that regardless.

Trans Rights motherfuckers, and I know I'll get banned for this post, and it will be worth every fucking second of it, because fuck the nonsense Black Chamber was pulling in the thread, fuck any defense of it, and I am with the transgender members of this site all the way and will happily eat a ban to speak my mind on this, which is that this is all complete garbage which there is no defense for, which should have never happened, and fuck anyone who says otherwise.

Trans. Motherfucking. Rights.

Whoo, that felt good to let that all out. See you guys on the other side whenever I see you I guess, and yeah, just know that I'm happy to eat a ban for you guys anyday, even if I shouldn't have to at all.

Lot of love, and you're all awesome. <3

#TransRights
This all the way through
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Not

I just said I don't know them though, like I know nothing about this person.

Also not sure where your from but I call people they/them several times a day.
Yeah sorry for the confusion, I was just wondering if I had the wrong pronouns for Sophia, get what ya mean, sorry for the derail. My brain is very very slow today.
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
Yeah sorry for the confusion, I was just wondering if I had the wrong pronouns for Sophia, get what ya mean, sorry for the derail
Ya know what to be fair maybe it isn't.

I aint above reproach. I have my reasons and I think several women in power will understand when I say highlighting over and over that a person is a woman can come across as an attack or lead to attacks on said female.

However if we have members who have been insulted or offended when I shift between He/They or She/They, well that is on me and I fucked up and no amount of excuses will change that.
 

Thorakai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,233
As someone who has no interest in Cyberpunk and had for some reason decided to click the thread last night, Black Chamber's responses were no doubt condescending and and reeked of the same All Lives Matter and sugary rainbow bullshit "lets all get along" lines that people throw out when called on their bigotry. I have zero familiarity with that poster, but in a vacuum those posts did not instill any confidence that the main OP and the thread itself would work to be as welcoming to the trans community as the "💯 welcome" replies supposedly represent. If that poster is indeed genuine and mods have a strong relationship to them to discern that they are acting in good faith, they need to step back and look at the posts for themselves and the strong reaction to them to process that this particular instance was a huge mis-step. It was an easy situation to complete address: say "yes" we are stating this in the OP. That is it. Additionally, whatever "interrogations" or "accusations" cis-gender posters excited about their video game are concerned about having to deal with here is probably a drop in the bucket compared to what trans posters go through on every single corner of the internet. Honestly, if you want to foster a community that is welcoming to minorities, then you better accept that a high-level of communication and continuous re-affirmation will be the norm to make that a reality. Don't slyly complain about that responsibility.

I haven't posted here at all but have been reading and following this thread very closely. I was so dumbstruck about the handling of the Cyberpunk media thread that I felt the need to throw my 2cents to support transera. For what its worth, this cis-gendered poster supports you all.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,877
Montreal
I just want to say that its tiresome watching person after person enter threads, even threads with plenty of threadmarks or guidance to come to threads like this one, and repeatedly "just ask questions" or require an explanation of why something is gross/bullshit/offensive from a minority community over and over again.

Its turning into Groundhog Day.
 

Kyrona

Member
Jul 9, 2020
509
Alright I wasn't expecting a blowup in my sleep lol. A few things:


They/them is totally useable, it is one of the only sets of non-gendered pronouns we have.

That suggestion of the post in the 2077 OT sounds like a terrible thing to ask while the other statements are being made, especially if it is being done to stifle discussion.


And finally, there is a pervasive belief through the forums that we should continue to place all of the pressure of the trans community on Kyuuji any time an issue comes up. That she should have to be the one writing everything. And, quite frankly, that many users see trans opinions as a bit empty until she chimes in.

I love Kyuuji dearly. She has done everything possible to give us all a voice, and supports and encourages all of us in our endeavors. And she will always have my support as well. But she is not the only one willing or capable of speaking on these things. She has expressed discomfort in the past at being seen as one of 'the good ones', and more and more it becomes apparent that people within the forums view her as such. Choosing to see the rest of us as just troublemakers. If she ever wants to collaborate and work with people on anything at all, she is absolutely welcome to. None of us here would ever judge her for doing anything on our behalf, because we know how wonderful she is.

But I'm finding the undertones of trying to use Kyuuji for other messaging, in all honesty, rather wretched. It is absolutely not fair to thrust such things onto her. And, honestly, it upsets me to no small end that people would attempt to use her kindness as a means to try to quell the intensity the arguments that she herself fights for- in the sake of making them more palatable to those tired of hearing of them.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
But I don't want to see anyone of you getting banned though.
So please don't. Thanks.
Indeed. Like, I'll be honest. I don't want to be banned. Of course that's not what I actually want.

It's just a frustrating thing.

Because I'm seen so many people trying their hardest to get through by being civil. Trying that time, and time and time again, with nothing changing.

And seeing that, it's hard not to let the frustration boil through.

And I know that frustration doesn't solve anything either.

But when being civil and politely and calmly explaining things doesn't seem to work, no matter how many times it's tried or how many people try it, even though hostility obviously isn't the answer either, when so many people try their hardest to be civil and for it not to work either, it's just hard not to get swept up in it.

And when civility doesn't seem to work, and obviously being outright hostile doesn't work or change anything either... well, at that point, it feels like a case of learned helplessness, and well, almost anything can feel better than giving into that, even hostility, as the sense of depression and, well, helplessness that learned helplessness causes is... not pleasant, to say the least.

Not that that's an excuse. But it's just a case of feeling like there aren't any winning options and not knowing what in the world to do, how to feel, how to react, or how to well, anything, in these situations, which really is the worst feeling of all. The wanting to just help, the wanting to do right, and at the same time, the both wanting to be left alone personally and wanting other people who have done nothing wrong to be left alone and respected, and just having no clue how to achieve that when nothing seems to work.

It's just feels like an awful no-win situation no matter which approach is employed and I have no clue what to do. Which is why sometimes, despite it being no excuse, it's frustration that boils over to avoid feeling nothing at all or feeling depression or other such emotions, but well, yeah. It just feels like there's no winning, and that just sucks, and I hate it.

Especially since on top of it all, I'm someone who struggles with tremendous social anxiety, and one of the largest triggers for my particular social anxiety is just that, not knowing how to handle a situation at all and not knowing what is the right or wrong answer or being in a situation where there really may not be such a thing at all but feeling compelled to say something regardless due to, even if I don't know what to say exactly, knowing the current situation is wrong and needs to be remedied in some way, even if I have no clue what in the world that remedy is.

Again, not that that is any excuse either. But when you put all of that together... That's why I get like that sometimes. It's no excuse for such behavior and doesn't make it any better or fix anything or anything, but nonetheless I just felt like explaining where all those feelings are coming from and why I reacted so strongly and harshly like I did. It's no excuse for any of it, but I just want to throw all that out there just so it's, well, out there I guess, because yeah, that's it and I really don't know what else to say.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
Imagine describing making an OT for a fucking videogame as being trapped between a rock and a hard place in a thread about raising awareness for combating transphobia/treating trans people as humans

Agree and I want to say so much more but it would involve@'ing certain people, which would probably derail.

I would just ask the mods or anyone to stop patting fans of a video game on the back when it comes to talking about how shitty CDPR is. People shouldn't need to be coddled, their approval should not need to be given in any way, shape, or form for such a discussion to take place over a video game when the discussion concerns human rights issues . Come on