-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.
- Thread starter Kyuuji
- Start date
User banned (3 days, 1 week threadban): hostility; ignoring staff post
Oh, it was a thread by the most persistent and clueless tech shitposter I've ever seen, marzoo. No wonder I didn't see the thread yall were talking about. Sometimes I dislike the way ignoring users also hides their threads, but every now and then it all works out perfectly.
Priviliged people don't think about these issues. For most people, for example, transphobia is literally and only HATE towards trans people. And they don't see that in the game.
I would just like to apologise for my ignorance when trying to get my point across earlier in the thread, my intention was not to tone police and I'm sorry for talking over folks (also not my intention at all). Sometimes I overcommit in trying to move a topic in a new direction for good and I steer myself down a rabbit hole. I was quite disappointed in myself and will learn from it.
Great to see this thread stickied, I may not have much to contribute but I will be keeping up to date with what's going on. Keep on fighting the good fight.
Great to see this thread stickied, I may not have much to contribute but I will be keeping up to date with what's going on. Keep on fighting the good fight.
Bit weird that flooding the forum with hype threads is fine but "hostility" to people being willfully obtuse is what warrants a ban. Kind of reinforces my point I made in this thread, really. This entire thread is full of trans people feeling genuinely unwelcome because of the blind hype surrounding some AAA game but you call someone a bootlicker for hammering in on suvivorship bias and redefining "preservation" to the point of meaninglessness and that's just too much.
Banning "hostility" is just a way to tone police in a professional way. The fact there was apparently *another* hype thread again makes it clear that the mods here favor band-aid solutions against "bad actors" over tackling the more "silent" issues that cause way more damage. What a joke.
The annoying part is that most of us don't want to be aggressive or hostile. But when we approach in a docile fashion we just get ignored, so we have to push harder. It's lose-lose for us because when we want to be heard we have to be so confrontational, which then just gives bad actors firepower because 'lol sjw's'.
Marzoo spending the best part of ten posts complaining that ara "insulted them" while not once engaging with any post explaining why their thread was likely closed and ignoring everyone who tried to explain why contextually "well game X gets a video thread" is worthless. Not to mention ignoring every reply where I asked them a question, Is infuriating. and yet who would cop a warning? Shall we wager?
I'm falling for the bait a little too, but I kinda feel compelled to not turn thee other cheek quite so easily since coming out. We're not arguing over which version of a game is better, or which console is better, but about real things which affect lives.
It is wild looking at the conversations in the 2077 threads, and how they either attack you all for having the gall to have concerns about the transphobia in the game... and the sheer willful ignorance where they just step over you.
The deliberate ignoring to replies has really, really upset me more than anything else TBH.
I just wanted to pop in and say that I'm sorry to hear how difficult it has been to discuss these issues on this board.
I must have missed this last night but I'll just be honest with you with an extremely short and to the point sentence.
I'm not surprised.
Cyberpunk is possibly the most hyped game I can remember. CDPR have not only their pedigree of critical acclaim, their "for the players" ethos, but they're also making a game in a genre that has a LOT of appeal across the board. Cyberpunk has always been something people wanted more of, as a genre itself.
I think the number of threads are natural given all of the above, gamers are salivating over this game for myriad reasons. CDPR have managed to build this up to their advantage, greatly. Were it not for the shitty parts, I would be celebrating this game and adding to that hype right now.
This game has become a perfect metaphor for the state of gaming, and possibly even the world, when it comes to systemic issues of bigotry. NOw, I say this next part not to paint CDPR in a great light, but to contextualize why they are perceived the way they are by so many gamers. CDPR were the beloved savours of gaming: they helped show how games could be legitimate story telling devices, they helped show how open world games could be meaningful didn't need to be cynically bloated check points, they helped lead the charge against exploiting consumers with DLC costs and MTs, they did so much to garner positive feedback that they became champions of the industry.
They always had their issues, though. For those who cared to look at them, there was overt sexualization and objectification, misogyny, massive lack of diversity, all things they defended and made excuses for... but still showed elements of growth with subsequent entries and actions. From collecting women as literal sexual conquest playing cards to Thronebreaker with their female characters with actual agency front and centre, one of the saddest parts here is exposed, and the reason for my claim they're a metaphor: that so many people who are seemingly making progress, listening, growing, seemingly at least trying... draw the line of their understanding at the feet of trans people.
(And all of this is said without even noting their issues toward their treatment of their own staff, which is a whole other topic in-itself and simply further exposes how flimsy their awarded honours are).
We see this everywhere. JK Rowling being a "champion" of left leaning virtue, suddenly grinding to a halt and exposing full on bigotry toward trans people. The Guardian newspaper in the UK for years being one of the main avenues of progress in our media giving rise to TERF legitimacy. People on this very forum who pop up in various threads to shout for progressive justice only to casually post in Cyberpunk threads and silently ignore threads like these.
The anti-trans sentiment festers at the heart of left-wing progressivism, from overt hostility to silent support of systems that create environments that allow hostility to grow, and failure to stand and use their privilege to take action.
CDPR have created possibly the most hyped game I've ever seen, and it honestly feels inevitable that it exposes the very thing that we see all around us: empathy, understanding, willingness to self-reflect and confront personal bias and ignorance, it all stops here. And CDPR's refusal to directly confront this, their dismissal of concerns and careful wording around responses to apologize for "offence" is helping normalize the notion that trans rights and advocacy of them is something to be swept aside as virtue signal bullshit at best, and fuelling overt hate and ignorance towards trans lives at worst.
CDPR had a huge platform here, they had the PERFECT injection system into the heart of gaming culture with an IP that gives so much incredible potential to explore positive, meaningful conversations surrounding trans identity, gender fluidity, and a host of other progressive ideas. The fact that they blundered so hard into the wall of their own ignorance and bias and doubled down on all of it when confronted is the perfect metaphor for the current state of left-wing progressivism, and a stark reminder of where the lines are drawn.
I think the number of threads are natural given all of the above, gamers are salivating over this game for myriad reasons. CDPR have managed to build this up to their advantage, greatly. Were it not for the shitty parts, I would be celebrating this game and adding to that hype right now.
This game has become a perfect metaphor for the state of gaming, and possibly even the world, when it comes to systemic issues of bigotry. NOw, I say this next part not to paint CDPR in a great light, but to contextualize why they are perceived the way they are by so many gamers. CDPR were the beloved savours of gaming: they helped show how games could be legitimate story telling devices, they helped show how open world games could be meaningful didn't need to be cynically bloated check points, they helped lead the charge against exploiting consumers with DLC costs and MTs, they did so much to garner positive feedback that they became champions of the industry.
They always had their issues, though. For those who cared to look at them, there was overt sexualization and objectification, misogyny, massive lack of diversity, all things they defended and made excuses for... but still showed elements of growth with subsequent entries and actions. From collecting women as literal sexual conquest playing cards to Thronebreaker with their female characters with actual agency front and centre, one of the saddest parts here is exposed, and the reason for my claim they're a metaphor: that so many people who are seemingly making progress, listening, growing, seemingly at least trying... draw the line of their understanding at the feet of trans people.
(And all of this is said without even noting their issues toward their treatment of their own staff, which is a whole other topic in-itself and simply further exposes how flimsy their awarded honours are).
We see this everywhere. JK Rowling being a "champion" of left leaning virtue, suddenly grinding to a halt and exposing full on bigotry toward trans people. The Guardian newspaper in the UK for years being one of the main avenues of progress in our media giving rise to TERF legitimacy. People on this very forum who pop up in various threads to shout for progressive justice only to casually post in Cyberpunk threads and silently ignore threads like these.
The anti-trans sentiment festers at the heart of left-wing progressivism, from overt hostility to silent support of systems that create environments that allow hostility to grow, and failure to stand and use their privilege to take action.
CDPR have created possibly the most hyped game I've ever seen, and it honestly feels inevitable that it exposes the very thing that we see all around us: empathy, understanding, willingness to self-reflect and confront personal bias and ignorance, it all stops here. And CDPR's refusal to directly confront this, their dismissal of concerns and careful wording around responses to apologize for "offence" is helping normalize the notion that trans rights and advocacy of them is something to be swept aside as virtue signal bullshit at best, and fuelling overt hate and ignorance towards trans lives at worst.
CDPR had a huge platform here, they had the PERFECT injection system into the heart of gaming culture with an IP that gives so much incredible potential to explore positive, meaningful conversations surrounding trans identity, gender fluidity, and a host of other progressive ideas. The fact that they blundered so hard into the wall of their own ignorance and bias and doubled down on all of it when confronted is the perfect metaphor for the current state of left-wing progressivism, and a stark reminder of where the lines are drawn.
era claims to be a progressive haven on the internet but it's transphobic, racist, misogynistic and ableist as fuck lmao
I started brainstorming something this morning that I wanted to share with the trans community here.
Could it be a good idea for someone to make a thread (and it could be pinned, depending on how you feel about that) containing info about games with important trans characters (protagonists or not), as well as the ones that a trans person was heavily involved? Examples would be Tell Me Why for the former and Celeste for the latter. It could also feature links to OTs for games already released, serving as a hub to them, and reliable trans charities to donate whenever possible. Obviously, it could also feature links to threads such as this and the ones about Trans Awareness Week.
The idea is to give more visibility than ever on ReseEra to everything related to trans people and games. It could help educate cis people who are willing to learn and play more games featured or made by trans folx, as well as provide another safe space to the trans community to discuss everything that is posted there.
What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Something that could be used as a base for something else?
Could it be a good idea for someone to make a thread (and it could be pinned, depending on how you feel about that) containing info about games with important trans characters (protagonists or not), as well as the ones that a trans person was heavily involved? Examples would be Tell Me Why for the former and Celeste for the latter. It could also feature links to OTs for games already released, serving as a hub to them, and reliable trans charities to donate whenever possible. Obviously, it could also feature links to threads such as this and the ones about Trans Awareness Week.
The idea is to give more visibility than ever on ReseEra to everything related to trans people and games. It could help educate cis people who are willing to learn and play more games featured or made by trans folx, as well as provide another safe space to the trans community to discuss everything that is posted there.
What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Something that could be used as a base for something else?
yeah, I understand that it's expected nowadays, but a handful of important people to the site have been LGBT. it just seems backwards (in addition to the obvious, that it's wrong and horrible everywhere)
edit: sorry I mis-@-ed from checking if someone was banned earlier, my b
Seems like with so many posters who don't give a toss to the point of ignoring Kyuuji, this thread (and clearly myself, despite me being lovely :P) people would use the "ignore thread" button with abandon. So they can continue playing their super important games and making yet a 6th hype thread.
Its meta, by them ignoring all the examples of that happening in the previous 4 pages it actually proves them correct. :)
I can only imaging one specific poster refusing to reply to me despite me never addressing them prior (or being this "militant" until today) comes down to them being a coward, a whining asinine coward, or just ignoring people they don't want to hear.
Realistically I assume that most games journalists rank among the working poor. They couldn't afford to alienate their career or company by getting black-listed by the company doing one of the biggest releases of the year.
But even more realistically, none of the good, critical investigation of this whole situation will be done by any of them aside from a footnote and maybe a few op-eds. Going to have to wait for the more in-depth independent video creators to bother. And I don't really know that any of super big video game essayists really have much to offer on this front. Maybe like, Hbomb, but it'd be nice to get a more personal and trans lens on it once the dust has settled.
Yeah, I have no doubt that's been happenin. But do you think it could benefit the trans community itself, as well as true cis allies?
Before this afternoons shambles in the CDPR thread I would have said of course, it certainly wouldn't hurt. Now though I'm almost too exhausted to bother :)
i appreciate the idea in theory, but in practice i'm not really convinced it'd do much. on top of what Lamptramp said, i think it'd be tricky to even just narrow down which games "deserve" a place on that thread and the discussion would risk devolving into discussing that instead. the state of trans representation in video games is enough of a mess that a lot of us don't completely agree on what counts as "good" examples, because there's so few trans characters written by trans people (and even that doesn't guarantee people not writing harmful views).
the charities have this issue slightly less, but even then not everyone agrees on which ones are worth donating to.
That makes sense. Sorry, I have that thread on my ignore list so I didn't see what was happening.
That makes sense, too! Thanks for your input.
you're welcome! and thank you for all the support in this thread, honestly. i know i complain a lot about how frustrated i am about the people who don't take this stuff seriously and it honestly often feels like that's just Everyone, but it's been really heartening seeing the regulars in this thread.
As a cis person I would appreciate this a lot, a positive and constructive thread around this would be nice. Would be nice to highlight those people/games/companies that are progressing here.
That being said, might have to be careful when creating the thread as to not have it seem "reactionary" given the current state of things.
I mean I'm going to be honest, I'd have a hard time even needing the second hand to count any trans men in gaming, let alone good ones. Trans women have slightly better representation, but not by much.
Honestly, I'd think that a majority of Americans wouldn't be able to name one trans person even outside of games, besides Jenner.
A thread like that would be nice for awareness, but we need more representation to make it substantial.
Honestly, I'd think that a majority of Americans wouldn't be able to name one trans person even outside of games, besides Jenner.
A thread like that would be nice for awareness, but we need more representation to make it substantial.
When people have gone as far as to put prominent trans members here on ignore just saying something like that is beyond hilarious, like, I don't know how anybody here could say something like that with a straight face.
Of course. The trans community here is incredible, and it sucks seeing you hurting so much. I'm here to listen and give support.
For the record, if something comes out of this, it shouldn't be me. It belongs first and foremost to the trans community. I gave the idea so it can be discussed, and changed if accepted in any way. I'd be willing to help by doing research and finding possible information for the thread, but it should be created by a trans member, not a cis one like myself. And that's only if they agree it's a good thing.
I respect and validate the ones who are saying it's not a good idea for the reasons they listed, and I hope to take a proactive role in whatever they decide it's best for their community on this forum.
User banned (2 weeks): disingenuous concern trolling https://www.resetera.com/goto/post?id=52283432
Serious question: when you say CDPR is transphobic, who exactly do you mean? All of the 1100+ employees? All of management? Some people in management? Only the two founders? The Twitter guys? Only CD Project Red, or the whole CD project company?
I think it's important when we call people transphobic (or racistic or..) to not generalize, and really blame the right people.
I think it's important when we call people transphobic (or racistic or..) to not generalize, and really blame the right people.
CDPR are a transphobic company because transphobic bigotry is allowed to fester and calls against it are brushed aside.
That isn't saying "every person who works for them is transphobic" and never has.
OP
OP
I'm not calling people transphobic, I'm calling the company transphobic for their consistent output, boosting of and tolerance for transphobia.
Here's the reality, I think: there will be no slurs used. This alone will be used as a defense against criticism. Passive-aggressive bigotry is the norm and will continue to be so.
Where a poster sums up this thread with the words
"The sticky thread is legit post after post of people running back to that thread to say "geez can you believe these idiots on this website???""
You know whats important? Its not beating about the bush when it comes to bigotry, its about no mealy mouthed footnotes its about being clear. The company has an issue with Transphobia, The Company CDPR is Transphobic.
Did you read the OP? Read the OP and then try this question again lol
You're not wrong. the bar of what the general audience considers discrimination ends at exact words 🤷
Even that's not really enough, the ads already show NPC's calling female V things like Bitch and c-word, bring up that maybe not good to have such gendered insults going towards the female protag that male players don't have to deal with you will get a lot of posters defending it as them just showing how horrible the world is and that it's fine and totally needed. Actually I think the time I brought that up as something not to do, I got it inferred by a poster that I had a mental illness and that it was for me to deal with my issues .Seriously, there could be trans slurs in game and you would still get posters defending it as "it's just CDPR showing it's bad!". There's a lot of people that will defend anything from CDPR. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of journalists worried about making even the mildest criticism with regards to how Cyberpunk handles marginalised groups because given what's happened in the past with games like this that are already so beloved before they come out, there will be harassment and death threats for anyone who doesn't glowingly praise.
I'm sorry another community of people on this forum is treated poorly because people would rather play a game and get to say "my privileges allow me to not give a damn about your struggles or discrimination so please fuck off while I consume a game and not give 2 shits about your community because reasons" -_- my gaming rights > actual people's rights ... am I right
OP
OP
Always a giggle to be reduced as a whole down to "politics" and a suggestion made that we sit at another table to the people that like games.
It's one thing to begrudgingly play a game you know is wrong, it's another to change your avatar to advertise the game and act like you opened an early Christmas present with every promotion or marketing piece.
The shameless and callous disregard for trans rights has been incredible to witness.
The shameless and callous disregard for trans rights has been incredible to witness.
User banned (permanent): Troll account
Oh my god TELL me about it. I almost never comment on here because of all the hate I get for trans (demi-two spirit, but more fluid), and just today alone i cried so much i stained my brand new sequined Bebe top and matching school girl skirt.😢
And then my older brother keeps calling me for money, mind you this same POS molested me as a child and got away it.
I JUST...CANT EVEN TODAY.
The thing is I really don't remember other games getting this many threads for such meaningless stuff, it's like if someone on CDPR sneezed there's a new thread. And I find it hard to believe that the more hardcore posters didn';t know that mods were trying to limit the number of threads as well :/ Being excited doesn't mean you should just ignore the feelings of others, there was nothing stopping them being excited in the existing threads.
OP
OP
I know you already banned, but really dude? Go troll somewhere else.
All of you putting up with all the excuses, whataboutism, slippery slopes, and other nonsense to paint us as the ones taking it too far in the main Cyberpunk threads, and continuing to raise awareness in there after so many posters have gone out of their way to ignore everything, are doing gods work. I took a look and I'm already second-hand exhausted, that amount of confrontation would sap my daily mental energy in like 30 minutes.