Only in name :-)
But I hope the message will reach more of ERA to begin with. I know I have a lot of learning to do still.
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CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.
- Thread starter Kyuuji
- Start date
Only in name :-)
But I hope the message will reach more of ERA to begin with. I know I have a lot of learning to do still.
I don't know if it's the same as what you mean but there is already a staff thing that happens in every thread regarding the woman who wrote some wizard books now.
I'm sorry I can't say her name, it upsets me.
I was thinking more like the front page. Where this thread and its title is always linked as being the thread above any CDPR thread. People often skim past the OP much less any links therein, and if recent months have shown anything it seems people can easily "ignore" the staff comms above "Post".
However this thread and its title perpetually being the thread above the OT or review threads is harder to ignore even if you don't enter the thread, much less the common trope of neighbour threads in forums being often amusing juxtapositions to each other, it would be much harder to miss.
I would mockup something in Photoshop, but I'm hanging the washing, gimme 10 :)
Thank you for creating the topic. It corresponds with my own views.
For me people dressing up as trans for fun is like people in Holland wearing blackface because of their version of Santa uses "happy slaves". Completely tone deaf and absolutely disgusting.
While I love seeing genitals mixed, not as a fetish but as a species: Like what if somebody who was born with a penis feels more human by heaving breasts?
Society,even those sympathetic to trans people, will still want to force the person into a role.You cannot have your penis removed in my country without being forced to take hormones and undergo a complete transition.
The chromanticore is bringing negative attention towards people who want to live non binary externally. So that ciswoman with her glowing penis can use said glowing penis to go .... herself
as for CDPR I actually believe they are the most qualified out of all developers to create a respectful trans game. By designing it, and then doing the complete opposite of what they were planning.
CDPR are currently the perfect example on how NOT to tackle trans issues
For me people dressing up as trans for fun is like people in Holland wearing blackface because of their version of Santa uses "happy slaves". Completely tone deaf and absolutely disgusting.
While I love seeing genitals mixed, not as a fetish but as a species: Like what if somebody who was born with a penis feels more human by heaving breasts?
Society,even those sympathetic to trans people, will still want to force the person into a role.You cannot have your penis removed in my country without being forced to take hormones and undergo a complete transition.
The chromanticore is bringing negative attention towards people who want to live non binary externally. So that ciswoman with her glowing penis can use said glowing penis to go .... herself
as for CDPR I actually believe they are the most qualified out of all developers to create a respectful trans game. By designing it, and then doing the complete opposite of what they were planning.
CDPR are currently the perfect example on how NOT to tackle trans issues
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I believe its been covered many times already, Certainly many languages miss a gender neutral singular noun and its a shame.
However while CDPR can't redefine a handful of languages they have complete power over their own fantasy world, even within the bounds of the source material which is over 20 years old as I recall. If they had given any thought or cared at all about how to address such questions during the design stage they could have reached out to communities for help and developed their own twist on how a futuristic society could and would deal with this.
They could have ensured that the PC would not be referred to in the script at all as just "he or she" and only by name or from a list of audible nicknames like Forza Horizon 4 has for example.
Creating an in universe "patois" (or adding to a current one) where people are referred to using a different cultures diminutives appropriate for He/She/they which they don't even after translate or find an appropriate translation for, or even creating one from scratch etc. People are more than happy to have writers create their own profanities and or have other languages be part of the script in science fiction without being dissonant, yet it seems typically not in this case.
This is after all a work of fiction and does not in any way *have to adhere to the "rules" of our time, and should, as something set in the future show exactly how a future society has dealt with these questions, or a way they have tried to. Even this alone would show some compassion and show an attempt at understanding people.
I think the answer to your question would be:
"It could work very easily if CDPR had cared enough to give it more than a passing thought".
That they didn't shows a staggering lack of creativity even without their further actions. They are darlings of the medium, they have a great deal of money and though (to my recollection) the Cyberpunk genre never started specifically with being trans as a major theme, it's totally in keeping with its broader thematic strokes. I fell in love with the genre initially partly because of its potential to address LGBTQ+ (and for me specifically trans) themes.
That this didn't occur to them as something to put effort into addressing makes you think it was just a case of "oo Cyberpunk, you can swap arms and stuff, thats good for RPG'S, also neon and half naked women with blades for arms look cool and sexy".
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Sorry for the double post, I just finished this, to illustrate what I mean.
Regardless of when this thread, (as an example), was last posted in it would always appear above the OT or similar thread on the main page so whether you read the contents or not it is always there front and centre showing that it is always as important as the main thread, locked to it like a surtitle. Much more visible to visitors and even non members.
With apologies to Raigor, no intent to shame the example thread or its creation, it was just the first thread I saw which could act as a proxy OT.
Of course I have literally no idea if it would work, I was simply thinking aloud for something much more "visible" if it seems agreed that such companies are fair game for conversation.
I have already talked about this, since it would be a problem in German too, they just need to record some stuff twice, which should be no problem for a company like CDPR.
CDPR could have easily done it, but pronouns aren't the real problem, which they should know, since they speak polish, which is as I understand, genders a lot more then just pronouns. English is pretty great when it comes to gendering, since for example here in Germany we gender every noun, which is quite stupid and is big problem when it comes to gender equality in language and non binary people have it even worse here.
But you are right, this shouldn't have been a problem for CDPR, since they have the money to record more VO or as you said at least do some planning ahead during the writing and translation, but they don't care about it.
The best thing would be reform a lot of languages. There are some half assed attempts here in Germany, which mostly only work in writing and we still don't have a pronoun all non binary people feel comfortable using or gender neutral forms of nouns.
I hope it doesn't feel like I derail the thread with my posts, so fuck CDPR. It was really hard listening to the last episode of the easy allies podcast, when they talked about the Cyberpunk delay. Atleast one German podcast I listen to dragged CDPR super hard, so if you are reading this, thank you for that Robin.
Good point about the reform of languages.
Imagine a game showing us how language has adapted to fluid identities...
Like why hasn't language reacted to the reality in Cyberpunk 2077?
If in-world characters can "mix it up", language would have needed to adapt to that possibility.
For scifi authors/writers that kind of speculative fiction, where you have to bend language itself and propose a new grammar and semiotics, is an amazing area to be creative within.
Yet for Cyberpunk 2077 it's just another red flag for me regarding the narrative scope and ambition of that game.
Imagine a game showing us how language has adapted to fluid identities...
Like why hasn't language reacted to the reality in Cyberpunk 2077?
If in-world characters can "mix it up", language would have needed to adapt to that possibility.
For scifi authors/writers that kind of speculative fiction, where you have to bend language itself and propose a new grammar and semiotics, is an amazing area to be creative within.
Yet for Cyberpunk 2077 it's just another red flag for me regarding the narrative scope and ambition of that game.
Y'all talking about CDPR showing how different languages could be shaped in a cyberpunk future when they couldn't get "right" (as in the direction, instead of being correct) right in portuguese and tried to play it off as intentional. They bragged about using google translate for that.
They don't care.
They don't care.
They did, umh..? Mind throwing some link about that as I'm curious, knowing they have full localization teams for each language.
And one day after everybody was like "uh that is incorrect dude":
Even though in the replies originally he went "oh hm yeah actually"
I mean... the original tweet did use a sarcastic meme format that's used to highlight incompetence or lack of preparation. Unless he's 12, chances are very low that he's actually describing his, uh, creative process.
If you say so. I have yet to met a single portuguese speaker that bought that it was intentional and they were going for "correct body" from the start, and it doesn't help that automatic translators EN->PT will spit out "right" as "certo".
Y'see, what you understand as a obviously ironic joke even to explain how awesome they are at using foreign languages, I as a native speaker of said language see as a perfectly obvious demonstration of how much they care about anything other than their familiar environment. And if you check the responses of both brazilian and portuguese people at the time, you will find that nobody is laughing at the "joke".
I didn't say it was a good joke, or appropriate in any way. I just don't think they simply feed their script into google translate and call it a day.
Character names aren't script - and it doesn't explain the obvious mistranslation being played it off as intentional - but I'll also stop this to not derail the thread.
Yep exactly, whether or not language x proves a problem to translate is a moot point.
They are masters of their own creation, they can't reform languages but just maybe they could have spent a moment thinking how they highlight such issues in their futuristic sci fi role playing game, where making a bespoke character is part of the design ethos. I mean that alone creates any number of quest content and flavour text. They do not care in the least to embrace the genre and to expand it using contemporary events as a spingboard.
Yeah totally, as I mentioned above content just writes itself, it could lead to more intelligent and natural dialogue where the player needs to take a moment to try and understand "new" or appropriated words being used based on theme and context. Like you say, absolutely no ambition to expand the subject.
And lest I forget the important points, thats how terrible it would be from an inclusivity PoV even if CDPR weren't strutting about proudly wearing transphobia on their sleeves.
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I want to give more context to what WarRock's concern is. Let's say that it all turned out a happy accident - the writers were looking into translations for "Left" and "Right," and liked what came up in Portuguese. Ideally, they should've reached out to their Portuguese Localization Team to make sure they got the correct words before moving forward with it. Except that they didn't. This would've shown up sometime during localization anyway, but what if it was too late to fix in English because the voice acting was already recorded by then? What if this "happy accident" simply couldn't happen, if it was with more "serious" characters?
This reminds me of how the Overwatch map Dorado was supposed to be based on a Mexican city. The developers were looking for inspirations on Google Images and found this beautiful, colorful town they thought was from Mexico. Except that it was Manarola, Italy.
Sometimes these accidents turn out great, but sometimes they really don't. The other day I was watching the movie Yesterday with closed captions, and at some point, they showed a reporter, with CC saying "[speaking Portuguese]." I have no idea what they were speaking, but it certainly wasn't Portuguese. The movie Signs had a scene supposedly set in Brazil with a young Portuguese (not Brazilian) boy saying "está atrás da garagem, está atrás dali! It's behind!" The first part in Portuguese from Portugal for some reason, and then shouting in English for another bizarre reason. The boy was supposed to be panicking, so why the hell would he worry about speaking in English? It was so bad they redubbed the whole thing from scratch in the Brazilian dubbed version.
At the very least, CDPR should've checked with their Localization Team before greenlighting these names. This oversight worked out in the end, but it's an exception to the rule.
This reminds me of how the Overwatch map Dorado was supposed to be based on a Mexican city. The developers were looking for inspirations on Google Images and found this beautiful, colorful town they thought was from Mexico. Except that it was Manarola, Italy.
Sometimes these accidents turn out great, but sometimes they really don't. The other day I was watching the movie Yesterday with closed captions, and at some point, they showed a reporter, with CC saying "[speaking Portuguese]." I have no idea what they were speaking, but it certainly wasn't Portuguese. The movie Signs had a scene supposedly set in Brazil with a young Portuguese (not Brazilian) boy saying "está atrás da garagem, está atrás dali! It's behind!" The first part in Portuguese from Portugal for some reason, and then shouting in English for another bizarre reason. The boy was supposed to be panicking, so why the hell would he worry about speaking in English? It was so bad they redubbed the whole thing from scratch in the Brazilian dubbed version.
At the very least, CDPR should've checked with their Localization Team before greenlighting these names. This oversight worked out in the end, but it's an exception to the rule.
As a reminder to any not aware, Transgender Awareness week is coming up starting on Friday. If you haven't already, please take the time to tell a friend or two about issues such as the ones contained in this thread regarding CDPR, and spread awareness as much as possible.
Something that the mods could do is have a subheading in the 2077 OT thread, like it has happened in the Nintendo thread. A lot of people will overlook the staff communication in any thread. It's just how our mind works with blocking out adverts and other similar things. But if the OT title had "Cyberpunk 2077 |OT| Stop hatred against trans" - who can ignore that?
OP
OP
Good bump. Will be making a thread for it Etc. side so will link it here as well when it goes up.
OP
OP
Boop ~ it's Transgender Awareness Week 2020! ~
If you've been interested in understanding more of the issues here, you might find some useful information in the thread on it 💜
www.resetera.com
If you've been interested in understanding more of the issues here, you might find some useful information in the thread on it 💜
Transgender Awareness Week 2020! (13th ~ 20th Nov.) OT
Please note: For each image block you can click through for more information on the topic or person. I will also be adding blocks over the course of the week including more trans creators. Thank you for visiting the thread, and happy Trans Awareness Week 2020!
www.resetera.com
Great thread!Boop ~ it's Transgender Awareness Week 2020! ~
If you've been interested in understanding more of the issues here, you might find some useful information in the thread on it 💜
Transgender Awareness Week 2020! (13th ~ 20th Nov.) OT
Please note: For each image block you can click through for more information on the topic or person. I will also be adding blocks over the course of the week including more trans creators. Thank you for visiting the thread, and happy Trans Awareness Week 2020!
Thanks for the link!Boop ~ it's Transgender Awareness Week 2020! ~
If you've been interested in understanding more of the issues here, you might find some useful information in the thread on it 💜
Transgender Awareness Week 2020! (13th ~ 20th Nov.) OT
Please note: For each image block you can click through for more information on the topic or person. I will also be adding blocks over the course of the week including more trans creators. Thank you for visiting the thread, and happy Trans Awareness Week 2020!
Boop ~ it's Transgender Awareness Week 2020! ~
If you've been interested in understanding more of the issues here, you might find some useful information in the thread on it 💜
Transgender Awareness Week 2020! (13th ~ 20th Nov.) OT
Please note: For each image block you can click through for more information on the topic or person. I will also be adding blocks over the course of the week including more trans creators. Thank you for visiting the thread, and happy Trans Awareness Week 2020!
Ho it's a week, thought it was just a day.
Thanks for the head's up, and may you have a happy week you all !
Boop ~ it's Transgender Awareness Week 2020! ~
If you've been interested in understanding more of the issues here, you might find some useful information in the thread on it 💜
Transgender Awareness Week 2020! (13th ~ 20th Nov.) OT
Please note: For each image block you can click through for more information on the topic or person. I will also be adding blocks over the course of the week including more trans creators. Thank you for visiting the thread, and happy Trans Awareness Week 2020!
Yay Kyuuji & yay to being transgender ❤
This is an important thread and so to keep it visible during this lull in Cyberpunk discussion, we're sticking it to the top of the page for the rest of November.
Just noticed, and I'm delighted this has been stickied.
Would be nice if it remained so when Cyberpunk discussion heats up again.
It would be nice to also have the thread stickied during launch day/week.
Nice to come to gaming side and seeing this as a pinned thread during awareness week. And if it's really up until months end even better. For all the issues I have had, and some I do still have for the first time in awhile I feel on the upswing about how things are here, at least from the mod/admin/site side.
For those with issues not saying it's perfect but it felt oppressive at one point earlier this year and now I am actually pretty happy here even when trans issues pop up.
Though some of that may be the community, the trans community here is the best.
For those with issues not saying it's perfect but it felt oppressive at one point earlier this year and now I am actually pretty happy here even when trans issues pop up.
Though some of that may be the community, the trans community here is the best.
Very nice seeing this pinned! Thanks, mods!
Light and love to everyone! Let's keep this topic front and center.
Light and love to everyone! Let's keep this topic front and center.
User Banned (Permanent): Trolling in a sensitive thread; dismissing transphobia; account in junior phase.
I am not sure if i got lost in translation, but i see lots of intolerance in the lgbti+ community (i am part of it), towards the rest of the society we belong.
It is like we fight for being included as part of the society and when we are, then we get offended only if they are not part of the lgbti+.
How many times a lgbti+, calls by disrispectful words another member of the their community and it is OK. But when an straight uses the same words we use between ourselves, then we get offended.
Thats when we separate ourselves of the society as a whole and we begin to form like a guetto. We segregate ourselves from the society.
I am not saying we must allow insults, but a joke? "You gotta laught when you are the joke".
We used to love back in the 90s and 00s when there was a representation of the Lgbti+ community. But now everyone is offended by everything.
How about Will and Grace? Two gay guys, many stereotypes, jokes and I might continue, but no body got offended by them back then and instead we were happy to see a visibilization of our community.
I am not sure if I Will be banned by this, but take we must stop satanizing everything as a "fobia", "hate", etc, etc. specially when we practice the same behavior inside our community, but we expect the rest of the world behaves different.
It is like we fight for being included as part of the society and when we are, then we get offended only if they are not part of the lgbti+.
How many times a lgbti+, calls by disrispectful words another member of the their community and it is OK. But when an straight uses the same words we use between ourselves, then we get offended.
Thats when we separate ourselves of the society as a whole and we begin to form like a guetto. We segregate ourselves from the society.
I am not saying we must allow insults, but a joke? "You gotta laught when you are the joke".
We used to love back in the 90s and 00s when there was a representation of the Lgbti+ community. But now everyone is offended by everything.
How about Will and Grace? Two gay guys, many stereotypes, jokes and I might continue, but no body got offended by them back then and instead we were happy to see a visibilization of our community.
I am not sure if I Will be banned by this, but take we must stop satanizing everything as a "fobia", "hate", etc, etc. specially when we practice the same behavior inside our community, but we expect the rest of the world behaves different.
Nah, this ain't it. Jokes about trans people get trans people killed. Your post sounds like some "if we have to let them hate us to get accepted we should" and fuck that. Not getting into the other letters but when my trans sisters and brothers have higher mortality rates, and when my sisters of color lead homicide rates when sampled for population I won't give an inch. And we can reclaim it not reclaim any word we want that's an internal debate and off limits to cis people (and I for one don't use reclaimed slurs so know your audience).
And you don't know me or anyone else from Adam or our experiences so you have no need to tell people what to do, and I don't give a shit that you claim a letter you don't speak for all of us, or from what you posted most of us.
Only figured I reply so others can see since I bet you get your wish for a ban in what I assume is a low effort troll "hey guys I am queer and will probably get banned for this, but you should let people treat you like shit and just accept prejudice and hatred"
welcome to the 1950's, nah fuck that.
How? Do you think hummor helps to spread hate? Can you elaborate?
I am not saying that, where am i supporting hate? Are you trying to change my point and place words that i did not say?
I am saying that we should be more tolerant with our place in society once that we are being recognized as part of one.
We are going to be represented in many ways, many of them may be we wont like(the villain, the joked), but thats just an expresion that we have gained our place in the society.
It definitely does, it normalizes seeing minorities as the butt of the joke and punching down at people with less rights. It normalizes seeing people as less than people. And when that happens, some people feel like it's okay for them to be violent against said minorities, they feel backed by society in their hatred. So no, fuck what you're saying, it's just plain harmful.
When me and my best girl are throwing out *Bitch, you are fucking gay.* or *Can you be more lesbian?* or..... is absolutely different than a CisHet saying these words, they use them to attack us and they have no right saying this. Doesn't matter if it's 2020 or 1950.
This line of thinking is dangerously close to a white person expressing they should be allowed to say the N-word because the there are member of the Black Community uses a word that is remotely similar.
No white person ever has the right to say any version of the N Word
No CisHet has a right to use our words or make jokes when they've used those same things to attack and oppress us.
Also get out of here with that Will and Grace shit. Women have been used as fetish or Queer bait even further back then and we have been angry about it from the very start. The fact is we shouldn't have to be subtly hinted at when CisHets can be shown kissing or getting married.
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Like good that this is visible now but it feels bad that it goes away before the game comes out? why not keep it stickied when the game is about to come out and the first week, that is when people are looking for cyberpunk talk?
This all feels kinda empty when there are hype threads are still allowed?? and seeing it won't be stickied during the period when most will seek out cyberpunk discussions.
You all (mods/admins) keep saying it's an important discussion, but I don't feel it outside of those words?
Like the trans era thread is almost empty, most moved to discord communities or/and got perma banned? "I love trans era" from a mod feels like a kick in the gut.
It's the good old "we hear you" "we are listening" and then it's empty words when it counts. The last year especially has made this site feel hostile at points towards minorities, just look how the TransEra meet and the AsianEra meet went. I can't see an improved environment here?
and the cyberpunk discussions are a part of that, allowing hype threads etc. I don't want to know how it'll be for us when the review, OT, Spoiler threads starts popping up and the side threads from those. Just look how the latest HP game thread went, I certainly can't wait for the fun times on here when the trailer threads and hype threads starts showing up for that game! weee.
It's clearly stated here how CDPR is a transphobic company, the game contains transphobia. But sure, let's hype and gush about the game and the company on here. It would make a bigger splash outside of this niche forum if the site took a real stand on it.
This all feels kinda empty when there are hype threads are still allowed?? and seeing it won't be stickied during the period when most will seek out cyberpunk discussions.
You all (mods/admins) keep saying it's an important discussion, but I don't feel it outside of those words?
Like the trans era thread is almost empty, most moved to discord communities or/and got perma banned? "I love trans era" from a mod feels like a kick in the gut.
It's the good old "we hear you" "we are listening" and then it's empty words when it counts. The last year especially has made this site feel hostile at points towards minorities, just look how the TransEra meet and the AsianEra meet went. I can't see an improved environment here?
and the cyberpunk discussions are a part of that, allowing hype threads etc. I don't want to know how it'll be for us when the review, OT, Spoiler threads starts popping up and the side threads from those. Just look how the latest HP game thread went, I certainly can't wait for the fun times on here when the trailer threads and hype threads starts showing up for that game! weee.
It's clearly stated here how CDPR is a transphobic company, the game contains transphobia. But sure, let's hype and gush about the game and the company on here. It would make a bigger splash outside of this niche forum if the site took a real stand on it.
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Agreed. I think it would be great if it stayed up there from now until at least a week or two after launch, whenever that ends up being.