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Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
Yeah I agree that a blanket ban for this game should take place between the 19th and 21st of November. I feel that doing that will show this forum's solidarity with the trans community.
 

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,933
Cornfields
Does not generate clicks and no clicks = no revenue. Also people would leave for other places to discuss the game and may come back less often in the future..etc.
At least that's what I think.

i personally wish we would ban discussion of cyberpunk and the HP game 🤷
So profiting over transphobia.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,888
Yeah I agree that a blanket ban for this game should take place between the 19th and 21st of November. I feel that doing that will show this forum's solidarity with the trans community.
A token and pointless gesture that shows solidarity for 2 days and then back to supporting a transphobic company for every other day
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,090
Why not?
I want to add so much to this question in terms of what's more important, and who to support, but I recognize that the more I put on top of this, the more it DOES look like a gotcha. So, why is a blanket ban no real option here?
If we simply shut down all the Cyberpunk threads then the controversy about the game would die with them on this board. Having an OT and other news threads about the game provides a platform to raise awareness of the issue. Having no discussion doesn't really serve anyone at all.

We've also said this about other games but it's true for Cyberpunk as well; there are minority members who want to be able to talk about games like this in a space where trolling and bigoted posting isn't tolerated. We're doing our best to provide that space.

May I suggest maybe stopping or closing the game's OT during launch day for one day or two? Then reopen. That will show protest and solidarity. Will be more symbolic than a sticky thread and such.
I can't guarantee anything but we'll discuss this.
 

Deleted member 24021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,772
Jun was handled pretty decently in Persona 2 IMO, but other than that, yeah. Atlus (most Japanese devs, tbh) have been horrible at this. Even if Kanji's storyline in Persona 4 helped me accept my sexuality, I can still see how problematic it was, and the stuff in Persona 3 and Persona 5 is just awful.

Persona 3 had problematic things? It's been a long time since I last played it so I don't remember. But yeah I hope Atlus stops with the homophobic shit in the next Persona game.
 

LegendX48

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,072
Ooh, yay, good to see a full write up of their behavior up to now. Didn't even know about the cosplay thing prior to this, holy crap.
 

xVaalbarAx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
286
I've been on the fence about this game for a while. But after this? Yeah I'm good with other games right now. I don't feel comfortable giving C**R any of my income. Great OP by the way.
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,620
Hamburg, Germany
But ill just say that ERA not making a statement here is a statement.
I tend to agree, and if I remember correctly, it's not the first time, after countless "we promise to do better" posts in regards to minority parts of the community. I don't and will probably never understand why. edit: this sounds maybe harsher than I mean it.

I'm not even trans and even I can imagine the frustration our trans community must feel about these issues.

If we simply shut down all the Cyberpunk threads then the controversy about the game would die with them on this board. Having an OT and other news threads about the game provides a platform to raise awareness of the issue. Having no discussion doesn't really serve anyone at all.

I see where you're coming from, but I think I disagree. What's wrong about the controversy "dying", if keeping it alive means only misery and frustration for our trans people. Why "raising awareness" if it only is raised on the backs of affected community members? Why having "a discussion" about it?
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613
Lol nothing that has been suggested in this thread is "not feasible" and its nonsense to suggest so.

I'm gonna take a break from this thread for my own wellbeing because I've been posting here all damn day and I'm too worked up.

But ill just say that ERA not making a statement here is a statement.
I'll be taking a break too. Can't believe standing for vulnerable members of the community would be so hard for the admins.
*sigh*
 

mentok15

Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,279
Australia
I've preordered in a place that cant be cancelled. I was looking forward to this game but don't know how I feel now.

I'm a litt bi I thin, and while its clearly not the same, I can somewhat understand how the trans members here feel about this. It's shit.
 
Feb 3, 2019
157
this game seems to use the cyberpunk setting as a window dressing. there is certainly nothing punk about this type of behaviour. it is not criticising our current society, it is just enabling it. it's sad to me because this could've been something really good
 
Apr 21, 2018
6,969
I never really realized all of this until I saw this OP. Granted I havnt really been following the game.

I still want to play it, but I think I'll wait to get it used down the line so CDPR doesn't get my money.
 

Hu3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,574
I want to address all the folk suggesting that the ot is not created or closed on the release day.

I want to be respectful and address this in a manner that doesn't come off as diminishing or problematic.

cyber punk is the game right now like is the hot stuff (being problematic or not). A lot of people are anticipating this game, waiting for release day, waiting to talk about it. the release date will be a boon for this site.

resetera like manny web cites relies on add revenue, relies on traffic, relies in user activity, engagement.

All of that is used to keep the page afloat, to keep things running, and improving.

suggesting that the ot is closed or not made at all can be a blow for this place as it can lose a lot of traffic, and user activity.
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,090
Does not generate clicks and no clicks = no revenue. Also people would leave for other places to discuss the game and may come back less often in the future..etc. At least that's what I think. i personally wish we would ban discussion of cyberpunk and the HP game 🤷
My guess is because it brings lots of traffic. Crap like Galgun(?)can be banned(rightfully so), so I don't see why this couldn't get the same treatment.
I've said this before in other threads, and I'll say this again. Revenue plays no factor in moderation decisions. We're a completely volunteer staff here.

So profiting over transphobia.
Enough of this. We have several trans members on staff, myself included, and you are being extremely disrespectful as this discussion impacts us just as much as it does regular members.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
I want to address all the folk suggesting that the ot is not created or closed on the release day.

I want to be respectful and address this in a manner that doesn't come off as diminishing or problematic.

cyber punk is the game right now like is the hot stuff (being problematic or not). A lot of people are anticipating this game, waiting for release day, waiting to talk about it. the release date will be a boon for this site.

resetera like manny web cites relies on add revenue, relies on traffic, relies in user activity, engagement.

All of that is used to keep the page afloat, to keep things running, and improving.

suggesting that the ot is closed or not made at all can be a blow for this place as it can lose a lot of traffic, and user activity.
For 2 days? lol that's peanuts
They'll live, they can just circlejerk about it on reddit
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,773
Fully agreed. Nothing could compel me to buy this overproduced piece of shit
 

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
5,215
I want to address all the folk suggesting that the ot is not created or closed on the release day.

I want to be respectful and address this in a manner that doesn't come off as diminishing or problematic.

cyber punk is the game right now like is the hot stuff (being problematic or not). A lot of people are anticipating this game, waiting for release day, waiting to talk about it. the release date will be a boon for this site.

resetera like manny web cites relies on add revenue, relies on traffic, relies in user activity, engagement.

All of that is used to keep the page afloat, to keep things running, and improving.

suggesting that the ot is closed or not made at all can be a blow for this place as it can lose a lot of traffic, and user activity.

Supporting a cause is being willing to make some sacrifices.

"I support Trans community, but my revenue...."

That's the message you are giving, not Sophia (wanted to clarify)
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
If activision blizzard games (for their taiwan)/thq nordic(shoutout to mark on 8chan aka pedoville) /Quantic Dream(for all their dumbshit towards their employees and racist caricatures) games weren't banned for their shit, what makes you think that they'll ban cyberpunk. And if they do, it'll be a trickle down effect of oppression Olympics on "why was this banned and this wasnt... isn't X just as bad as transphobia". Note I think if something does happen, its needs to be on a big scale or be silent and don't and at least we know that answer.
Oh and I forgot kingdom come deliverance. Thats still allowed for discussion.
 
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ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
75,999
Providence, RI
So profiting over transphobia.

I think you're being a little too aggressive here.

You went into another Cyberpunk thread to link to this thread to shame people who are buying this, despite the thread guidelines listed in this thread.

There's a way to discuss this topic and take issue with moderation decisions without making wild accusations such as "profiting over transphobia" and trying to shame people who are buying the game.
 

linhost

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49
Guys is it possible for us to contact the owners of the Cyberpunk IP to convnce them to not let CDPR use the IP until they can make definitive proof they have changed their transphobic ways? CDPR may be a Polish company and not give a shit but I'm pretty sure the owners of Cyberpunk don't want their brand to be associated with transphobia. At least I hope.
Mike Pondsmith was asked about the chromanticore poster and basically said "I have trans friends" lmao he doesn't give a shit

I remember (maybe incorrectly) that CDPR bought some* portion of the Cyberpunk IP. Like, they bought something that gave them ownership of the content they are creating in "their" version of the Cyber"verse"?!?

***Also, a newbie question, but it seems like a lot of posters would have problems with the |OT| for the game. Is there a poll or something that can be posting asking posters if they were prefer NOT to see that |OT|?***
edit - I was only 5 pages in when I penned the above comment....after reading the other 9 pages I see it has already been touched on. I guess the easiest thing would be to ignore the thread at that point?
 

Kyrona

Member
Jul 9, 2020
509
We are literally only discussing it because someone created a thread to raise awareness of it.
Nah fam. The discussion doesn't mean shit if people literally ignore it to post 'cool things ' about 2077. These discussions seem to require trans people to constantly make lengthy posts listing grievances only to be ignored immediately within the ot. And multiple people on the last few pages can attest to that. Every time we post something and get ignored or our concerns dismissed it hurts. Yet we are the ones told to be responsible and have these discussions.


Keep in mind Kyuuji had to write a fucking dissertation with sources and everything to get half of the people in here to engage. Only to have people in this very thread, against mod warnings, still say "Fuck that, I don't care, give me my game you bullies". Is that an appropriate burden to force others to hold up?

Discussions can be good, but anyone thinking the ot would be safe for trans people to address their issues is kidding themselves.
 
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Deleted member 8166

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,075
I've said this before in other threads, and I'll say this again. Revenue plays no factor in moderation decisions. We're a completely volunteer staff here.


Enough of this. We have several trans members on staff, myself included,
Since you say "enough of this" I'll leave this thread after this answer.
I know that the staff volunteers. But that does not mean that era does not generate revenue for the website owner with the ads and "era clear ad removal" 🤷
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,888
Nah this is bullshit. Another thread of admins just ignoring questions and suggestions. I give up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,231
User banned (permanent): Hostility, recent 1 month ban, and a 2 month ban before that for ableism. Long and relentless history of infractions for hostility.
Mods continue to be bedfellows with transphobes. News at 11.
 

Combo

Banned
Jan 8, 2019
2,437
If activision blizzard games (for their taiwan)/thq nordic(shoutout to mark on 8chan aka pedoville) /Quantic Dream(for all their dumbshit towards their employees and racist caricatures) games weren't banned for their shit, what makes you think that they'll ban cyberpunk. And if they do, it'll be a trickle down effect of oppression Olympics on "why was this banned and this wasnt... isn't X just as bad as transphobia". Note I think if something does happen, its needs to be on a big scale or be silent and don't and at least we know that answer.
I know nothing about those games and about Persona 5 which someone else mentioned in this thread. Perhaps the things in those other games were less overt, hateful, or high profile than what 2077 is doing. And maybe that is why I don't know about the issues with those games.

However the point in asking for 2077 to be banned is twofold in my opinion:

1, You need to make an example. It's like being a teacher in a rowdy class (in a corrupt school) that has no hope of disciplining all the bad students, so they pick the worst one and hope it sends a message to the rest. Banning 2077 from Era will send a big message and it's worth a try rather than trying nothing. It's better to try and fail than never try at all.

2, In my own experience this particular game has been more overt and high profile in its offense than others. That may be my own ignorance but that's how I see it.

Adding a 3rd point:

I am not a trans person so I may be wrong in my analysis here. Correct me if I am wrong:

We are talking here about a tiny minority of people in society that don't have the big social groups to be able to seek comfort or brush aside mockery, hate and insults. This type of situation can affect a person's mental health. They have a hard enough time as it is, let's not make it worse for them. If someone mocked my ethic group I may be offended but there are 10s or 100s of millions of us and it wont affect me so badly. But in banning 2077 were are talking about protecting a smaller more vulnerable group.
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
May I suggest maybe stopping or closing the game's OT during launch day for one day or two? Then reopen. That will show protest and solidarity. Will be more symbolic than a sticky thread and such.
I think this is a good suggestion, especially as it corresponds with Trans awareness day, so I hope it's something that can be looked into.

Thank you for responding Sophia .
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
The representation of the Trans community has been and continues to be a very problematic issue. They have had numerous attempts to try and fix things such as the Pronoun tied to voice etc. CDPR deserves to be criticized and should be. That said banning discussion of their game or them opens a box that leads to a never-ending stream of banned topics.

Having this Thread receive proper placement during the launch period is the way to approach things.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
75,999
Providence, RI
Nah this is bullshit. Another thread of admins just ignoring questions and suggestions. I give up.

www.resetera.com

CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.

If we simply shut down all the Cyberpunk threads then the controversy about the game would die with them on this board. Having an OT and other news threads about the game provides a platform to raise awareness of the issue. Having no discussion doesn’t really serve anyone at all. We’ve also...

On this page, an admin said the staff would be discussing one of the suggestions.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,888
www.resetera.com

CDPR is a transphobic company. It's time we stop making excuses for them.

If we simply shut down all the Cyberpunk threads then the controversy about the game would die with them on this board. Having an OT and other news threads about the game provides a platform to raise awareness of the issue. Having no discussion doesn’t really serve anyone at all. We’ve also...

On this page, an admin said the staff would be discussing one of the suggestions.
The toothless and most pointless suggestion
 

Kyrona

Member
Jul 9, 2020
509
I would say Sophia is obviously upset and likely has her own opinions on this as well. maybe take it a bit easier on her. She is one of the only ones trying to reach out to us and have any form of interaction. I stand by my points, and agree with you that there is be a discussion to be had regarding those concerns about how era does or does not profit here, but she is still one of our own.

And Combo I appreciate that post and think you are rather accurate.
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
May I suggest maybe stopping or closing the game's OT during launch day for one day or two? Then reopen. That will show protest and solidarity. Will be more symbolic than a sticky thread and such.
This seems like a great idea or at the least should be the bare minimum done.
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,564
CDPR is a transphobic company.
*mic drop*
Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to type up and compile the whole everything on this topic into a single comprehensive yet succinct-feeling post. In the future whenever it's necessary to explain something related to this, one can just reference this post.

Is it ok if I copypaste parts (or possibly the entirety) of this post in replies to @CyberpunkGame tweets, comments of relevant articles and whatnot?

Oh and one possible correction.
In response, and to their credit, GOG fired the person involved who then went on to work for an alt-right website.
According to said person (quoted in an update for the article linked above) he was approached by and considered a job at an alt-right gaming site called Exclusively Games, but ultimately declined.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
Enough of this. We have several trans members on staff, myself included, and you are being extremely disrespectful as this discussion impacts us just as much as it does regular members.


With all due respect, how can you put forth any discussion without addressing the trans community as a whole? Why not do one of those threads that is exclusive members of a community, invite only. Make it private, public, whichever. You guys help run a COMMUNITY, I don't believe you can just handwave valid concerns like this.

I'm not trans, this isn't my place, obviously. I just know how uncomfortable it makes me and I'm also just echoing and supporting sentiments of members of Era who are trans. This should be something you gather the whole or as much of that community as you can, and form some sort of consensus and yeah, maybe even not host an OT or promotional threads about the game should the community at large decide that.

You really think thread warnings and little posts are going to ward people off?

Talk to the community.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,888
Okay.

I don't think attacking the moderation staff aggressively is the way to go about this.
I was definitely not attacking the moderation staff and never did, im just sick of having this discussion now over several threads and the issues raised just get handwaved away by the admins.

We got a "we can't do that" with no explanation why.

And they are looking into the one suggestion that is a totally non-commital and pointless gesture that does nothing to resolve the underlying issue.

I won't accept a 2 day ban on the OT as showing solidarity with the trans community when they have not done that for the past couple of YEARS in regards to this subject.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
75,999
Providence, RI
I was definitely not attacking the moderation staff and never did, im just sick of having this discussion now over several threads and the issues raised just get handwaved away by the admins.

We got a "we can't do that" with no explanation why.

And they are looking into the one suggestion that is a totally non-commital and pointless gesture that does nothing to resolve the underlying issue.

I won't accept a 2 day ban on the OT as showing solidarity with the trans community when they have not done that for the past couple of YEARS in regards to this subject.

It seems like the only acceptable answer to you would be to ban the OT completely. Is that correct or am I off base?
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,620
Hamburg, Germany
Yeah guys so


It sucks to directly attack the mods about this.

But it also sucks how people get banned over in the other CP2077 thread because of, what, getting mad about the thread purposefully ignoring transphobic issues, while they have to deal with a threat about Era ignoring transphobic issues? Yeah, it's not cool to do that, but it's also not cool to catch a one week ban for being upset about the behaviour. Especially while simultaneously fighting in this thread to get heard by Era and its members.

Like. Man, I don't know. Era administration is constantly claiming to be here for minorities and to be a safe space and to do whatever's necessary for this. But banning a clearly transphobic game is too much, because.. why? Because people who literally don't care want to talk about it? I see two people banned over in the other topic, and both were from the pro-trans side of the discussion. I see people in this thread, giving up on Moderators and Era and rather remove themselves from a discussion that should promote a safe space for them.

Is having a safe space for fans of the game, who don't want to be bothered about serious implications for minorities really such an important piece of freedom that must be defended over an actual safe space for the same minorities Era is usually so proud to shepherd? I don't know, this feels wrong, and it feels like it's not the first time at all.

The points for banning this game seem, to me, far more reasonable and fitting and helpful than any reason to NOT ban it. I guess that's just my opinion, but yeah.

Well that was some rambling. Back to your daily scheduled game discussions.
 

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
Yeah I don't think forming a consensus would work in favor of the trans community, given the results of those trash "would you still buy that HP game??" polls. Just putting it out there