Speaking personally, back when RDR2 came out I had similar thought processes about holding out... and I caved after three days. This time though, I think I'm determined to hold the line.
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As a dev myself, I often have conflicted feelings about crunch but I realize that it's also something that's been ingrained in me. Looking back at past experiences I remember a time where my dad was sick in the hospital and I couldn't even be there for him because I was working. The older I get the more I resent this culture. I'm glad Jason is speaking out against it and I hope it brings about change for these people because that's all I could hope for.
The posts are a few days old. Schreier's tweet is from today where he explicitly mentions speaking with the dev in question over the phone.
I will say that one of the things Jason messed a bit up with was he's original interview with the whole "trying to reduce crunch" and "no obligatory crunch" quotes , largely cus I've seen that article used again and again as defence for CDPR, CDPR were clearly using Jason for PR and even at the time I saw a lot of devs call it on Twitter as a meaningless statement and that this comment shows now that even then CDPR had devs in bad crunch so the statement was false at that stage. Just don't think the original interview was a good idea as I have seen a lot of people use it as defence of CDPR for that time, especially on this forum. I'm assuming that if Jason could go back he maybe change it a bit for that exact purpose.
You're the first person I've heard claim there's more supply than demand for programmers. Do you work in the industry?
85 hours a week is 12h/7 days a week or 14h/6 days.
No matter what work do you do and bonuses you get, this is absurd and absolutely unnecessary, especially for a video game lmao. What a bunch of morons CDPR management are.
No matter what work do you do and bonuses you get, this is absurd and absolutely unnecessary, especially for a video game lmao. What a bunch of morons CDPR management are.
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Your argument is about consistency in the face of the exploitation of labor. You think every situation is the same and that if you can't be consistent about all of them, it's meaningless. It's not. It's a fucking video game. Stop tying yourself in knots to justify it to yourself.
Yeah, I just went back the last few pages to read more of their posts, and you're right. I was mistaken.
The rest of my post still stands though. I don't think it's fair to judge the morality of someone based on whether they boycott it or not. You can consume a product while still recognizing and criticizing it's creation/creators. I don't think buying Cyberpunk inherently makes you a crunch apologist. I don't think buying Harry Potter makes you a transphobe. And I don't think buying an iPhone makes you an advocate for slave labor.
Again, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and people can't boycott everything. I do think it's hypocritical to judge others for not participating in the exact same boycotts as you. At the same time, using that as an excuse to criticize people who do choose to boycott certain things is really shitty too, and that seems to be what that user was doing now they I took a closer look.
Do you say this to everyone who boycotts video games / studios?
Actually this is better for healthcare as turnover of workers is a leading cause of errors and mishandling of patients. IT sucks, but most healthcare workers know this before getting into the field and are shown the issues as they learn. Also, the shifts are drastically different following a usual 4 day work week. OT is often frowned upon as well. While software development is different and crunch/normalizing OT is not ok for any professions, this is not a comparable example.
I understand that they weren't originally in contact with Jason for the article, but after those reddit posts Jason got into contact with them.
OP
OP
User Warned: Antagonizing other users
Nope, I just don't see many people standing by their word in all honesty. Do you try to pick fights with everyone in these types of threads?
Whoa what? Way to turn it up to 11 for no reason at all.
I NEVER suggested that and I only wrote my comment to get an honest opinion on what could be done.
I was NOT trying to pick a fight or troll people, much get accusation thrown around.
I am out. ERA seems too wound up to even have a conversation sometimes and this is one of those.
Edited, this comment was too hostile. Fuck defending these practices, and fuck game informer.
Also you're allowed to reflect and doubt your purchasing decisions. We all buy phones made in unethical conditions, doesn't mean we have to blindly defend those conditions.
Also you're allowed to reflect and doubt your purchasing decisions. We all buy phones made in unethical conditions, doesn't mean we have to blindly defend those conditions.
I totally understand you. I got excited by that very trailer, and was extremely excited until these last three or four months. As I've said in my first post, I know that I won't make a difference by not buying the game, I know how insignificant my individual action is, but I'm a member of the working class and, being pro-labor, it's impossible for me to buy a product of employee abuse and feel good about it. That said, I don't blame anyone for buying this game, regardless of their reasons for doing so. Different people like different things for different reasons, and as long as you're not supporting someone who spreads hate, you're fine in my book.
Jesus, it was playful comment. Can't make a joke anymore without people getting offended lol.
Yeah, this is the unfortunate truth of much of the industry (and among many other industries).
No, only when I find posts making weirdly agressive assumptions.
Totally respect your decision too my friend. Plenty of other great games coming out the same month it's insane.
First teaser was 2013 actually- this game was in pre production a long long time.
OK that makes sense, I was just going on wikipedia that made it seem like development "started" in 2017 and i felt like we knew about this longer
I hope some reputable media outlets will start reaching out to CDPR heads up asking them wtf is going on there. Media needs to talk about it and report it. I feel that's the only way they'll change.
It's more important for you to call people out for not following through on their word than calling out CDPR. Even though we have little evidence of the former since the game isn't out yet.
In the US atleast (dunno about EU/Poland), there's definitely more supply than demand for programmers. Which is why companies now have ridiculous job requirements and interview processes to filter out to only qualified programmers (another reason why "just getting another programming job" is not a good counterargument to crunch).
According that ex-CDPR dev games development kicked to the gear after B&W shipped so around H2 2016.
I did choose my words deliberately in that I said pre-production? There was defo some work done on the game prior to 2016.
Don't forget that Cyberpunk 2077 was announced in January 2013, so the notion that the studio spent a long time in pre-development is not far-fetched at all. That being said, they were also working on The Witcher 3 at the time. Which makes announcing the game so early pointless. This is just to add context to what is being shared in the OP.
So... Anyone expecting the GI folks to apologize, retract their statements, get rid of their free stuff? I personally don't think they will every do, because despite my positive nature (hah!), I am pretty cynical about that ever happening. They doubled down before, I can see them do it again tbh. Still, must feel bad, huh?
That said, I am now completely soured on the game. The way people were treated at the studio is terrible, and they've been doing it for peanuts. Management is going to walk away with fat bonuses, and the devs who worked insane hours a day get what, 500 Euros? It's not normal and stuff like that must change.
Also, how can you come here and actually try to deflect or defend practices like this? Are you that invested in a luxury item that you're willing to forego basic human decency? It's sick.
I'm not unfamiliar with overtime myself, but at least I got compensated fairly, and treated right. That's the power of being part of a union.
That said, I am now completely soured on the game. The way people were treated at the studio is terrible, and they've been doing it for peanuts. Management is going to walk away with fat bonuses, and the devs who worked insane hours a day get what, 500 Euros? It's not normal and stuff like that must change.
Also, how can you come here and actually try to deflect or defend practices like this? Are you that invested in a luxury item that you're willing to forego basic human decency? It's sick.
I'm not unfamiliar with overtime myself, but at least I got compensated fairly, and treated right. That's the power of being part of a union.
Alright, thanks for clarifying. Sorry about not noticing that part.
People getting assigned 85 hours work a week!!!!
Would love to be in their sprint planning meetings and story point sizing!!! GTFO with that shit
Would love to be in their sprint planning meetings and story point sizing!!! GTFO with that shit
This is how they put it on Reddit.
Q: How long was the game actually in development? You mentioned that CDPR spent a lot of time dicking around in pre-production.
A: The game was in development for far more than the ~2 years of production, it's tricky to say when it officially started as resources were moved often between projects, but you can take as a reference the release of BaW
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comm...?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some pre-production between original teaser and B&W shipping, but even then we are talking 4 years with re-reveal in 2018. Pre-production must have bled good ways towards that 2018 re-reveal, it was speculated to be very proof of concept slice.
If they really started full prod so late, I think the game will end up disappointing some gamers🤷♂️
Yep, even with Witcher 3 in mind it's a flimsy excuse in this case. This shit is indefensible and it's only the latest in a series of disgusting fuck ups out of CDPR.
i am not boycotting the game but i won't get it at release as these stories are a major turn off to spend on a product.
That said i do "boycott" other brands; specially if i have an alternative. As examples:
I don't usually pick any electronics with internal batteries -> less harm on the environment; i can use my own bateries.
Only change electronics when they either stop working or they can't do their function -> For example i have a gtx 1070 and won't upgrade until it either breaks down or can't run at all my games. My phone for example won't be upgraded unless it stop working as I only use it for calls/messages
If there is green/greener brand i'll try to pick if i can afford it. For example I drink coffee from capsule, so i pick nespresso which allows me to recycle the capsules.
I decreased my meat consumption and have increased the consumption of local products.
I'm just sad that most people here just ignore the wellfare of the evironment and their society easily. Just take a look at how many prefer internal batteries and don't give a fuck about BC. it is all about the shiny new thing.
Perspective from another game developer on the CDPR bonus relative to EA
"anyone can claim they're a cdpr dev!"
"lol I'm not trusting Jason's word on this he obv has an agenda!"
"jim sterling does too!"
Disappointing to still see a defense force for this crap. But I guess the paid influencers and the folks at Game Informer don't care much about it.
"lol I'm not trusting Jason's word on this he obv has an agenda!"
"jim sterling does too!"
Disappointing to still see a defense force for this crap. But I guess the paid influencers and the folks at Game Informer don't care much about it.