CDPR: Cyberpunk 2077 will still have "some very occasional" 3rd person cutscenes

Sankara · Sep 2, 2019

"I'm playing a video game, not a movie" is the most disingenuous argument against people who prefer third-person cinematography in their cutscenes. As if movies and games don't share similiarities with each another and as if they cannot compliment each other. Also good job discounting the work of thousands of artists who've made some amazing cutscenes over the history of video games.

I seriously don't get the hostility and willingness to argue against people who simply prefer cutscenes in third person (or third person gameplay)

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

Stygr said:
I guess Metro, Crysis and Half-life 2 didnt achieve this so called "artistic outcome" and they should've been in third person because apparently you can achieve this artistic outcome ONLY if you make third person cutscenes.

You are making me laugh so hard.

Yeah they should. All those silent protagonist games are cringe worthy af. And Crysis? Lol.

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Is Black Mirror Bandersnatch a video game?

It's an experience.

labx · Sep 2, 2019

Crossing Eden said:
Cutting the character creator would be ridiculous, not everyone wants to play as a V who with lighter skin tones. And also, you will be seeing the character. They've already said that they're doing creative things with the camera work since the setting allows it.

I see, I see. I don't think it is ridiculous if they are not going to show any of the character. I fail to said that maybe they should do like a character pool with a lot of options (if they don't want to invest in you watching your character in game that much). I dunno, I don't mind the change, I suck creating characters. I think you have a point if they are going to explore other ways of seeing the character.

Jake_brake · Sep 2, 2019

For those who believe this was "debunked" or something by the dev's response, don't get your hopes up. He emphasized full 100% and the "very occasionally" you'll see yourself is likely like that ripperdoc scene, but not actual third person like V getting up in the morning.

Basically we still need more clarification. Are there ANY scenes like this one, or is the literal only way to see yourself is reflections, inventory etc?

Arion · Sep 2, 2019

Stygr said:
The thread title is saying that cutscenes in TPP are still in and i dont understand what are you trying to accomplish right now.

Just saying that third person cutscenes can also be intractable.

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

Crossing Eden said:
It's an experience.

lol ok

Deleted member 8196 · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Yeah they should. All those silent protagonist games are cringe worthy af. And Crysis? Lol.

People showing their ignorance and pretending to be right. Nothing more to add and say.

Zephy · Sep 2, 2019

I don't agree with this logical shortcut of "first person = more immersion". Some of the most immersive games I've played are 3rd person. Either way, you're still looking at a monitor. And sitting far from the screen, it is more natural to see the action through a camera floating behind your character than having a 75-90° field of view from within the character's head.

So I don't really understand CDPR's obsession about making everything in first person in the name of immersion.

Firefly · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
There is a rule and standard that you don't compose scenes from one angle and perspective. The objective of a visual medium of storytelling is to capture the action and pertinent details in the frame. Putting things in first person does not achieve a good artistic outcome, and no it does not put you "in control" of the character.

Ever heard of a game called Half life 2?
And lets not forget the studio's previous game was Witcher 3. They are well aware of the rules and standards of cinematography.

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

Arion said:
Just saying that third person cutscenes can also be intractable.

Yes they can but the closest comparison we can make is CDPR's previous work because this is iterating on their design ideas in TW3.

skeezx · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
There is a rule and standard that you don't compose scenes from one angle and perspective. The objective of a visual medium of storytelling is to capture the action and pertinent details in the frame. Putting things in first person does not achieve a good artistic outcome, and no it does not put you "in control" of the character.

where does this "rule and standard" come from exactly?

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

Zephyriel said:
I don't agree with this logical shortcut of "first person = more immersion". Some of the most immersive games I've played are 3rd person. Either way, you're still looking at a monitor. And sitting far from the screen, it is more natural to see the action through a camera floating behind your character than having a 75-90° field of view from within the character's head.

So I don't really understand CDPR's obsession about making everything in first person in the name of immersion.

The truth is, they're making the game in all in first person because it's easier. It would be a much larger artistic undertaking to have to frame scenes, do quality performance capture, and actually plot the story line to be more than a cumulative fetch quest. Gamers love to ascribe artistic merit where there is none. Like trying to praise walking simulators as high art etc.

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

TIL this scene from Portal 2 did not achieve a good artistic outcome because it's in first person:

Or this scene from Resident Evil 7:

Or this scene from Bioshock Infinite:

Or this sequence from Arkham Knight:

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

Crossing Eden said:
TIL this scene from Portal 2 did not achieve a good artistic outcome because it's in first person:

Or this scene from Resident Evil 7:

Or this scene from Bioshock Infinite:

Or this sequence from Arkham Knight:

Yup all those games are 100% cringe, except Portal, but that's because the writing is funny. Man I really have always loathed Bioshock in particular. The way gamers eat Ken Levine's ass for his pretentious, tedious, narcolepsy inducing bullshit is the worst. Omg its a WITTLE GURWL,,, I have the feels!! I'm saving her!! lol no.

RPGam3r · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth is, they're making the game in all in first person because it's easier. It would be a much larger artistic undertaking to have to frame scenes, do quality performance capture, and actually plot the story line to be more than a cumulative fetch quest. Gamers love to ascribe artistic merit where there is none. Like trying to praise walking simulators as high art etc.

This is super insulting, damn.

Giever · Sep 2, 2019

I'm okay with the game having an almost entirely FPP, but I also think it's fine if you aren't and choose to voice that criticism. People are totally free to criticize a game for not being what they want, even if it's contrary to what the developers intended or want to produce.

Deleted member 29660 · Sep 2, 2019

AllChan7 said:
I don't consider this an issue so much as the dev's vision for the game. If you don't like 1st person view thats fine..but idk how long you've been following the game because we've known about this information for over a year.

Did you even read my post.

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth is, they're making the game in all in first person because it's easier.

Imagine unironically thinking this.

No42.05W70.2 said:
t would be a much larger artistic undertaking to have to frame scenes, do quality performance capture, and actually plot the story line to be more than a cumulative fetch quest.

Here's literally a BTS look at a sequence in a first person game featuring multiple actors with full performance capture.

No42.05W70.2 said:
Gamers love to ascribe artistic merit where there is none. Like trying to praise walking simulators as high art etc.

Gamers also love to talk say a LOOTTTTTTT of straight up, to put it as nicely as possible, misinformed things about game development and quite frankly you're doing an amazing job at demonstrating. 😄 Please stop. 😃

RPGam3r said:
This is super insulting, damn.

Like genuinely imagine literally being that level of ignorant about game production. Like I am genuinely laughing at how misinformed that post is.

skeezx · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Man I really have always loathed Bioshock in particular. The way gamers eat Ken Levine's ass for his pretentious, tedious, narcolepsy inducing bullshit is the worst. Omg its a WITTLE GURWL,,, I have the feels!! I'm saving her!! lol no.

so the writing's the issue, not the perspective?

Asriel · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth is, they're making the game in all in first person because it's easier. It would be a much larger artistic undertaking to have to frame scenes, do quality performance capture, and actually plot the story line to be more than a cumulative fetch quest. Gamers love to ascribe artistic merit where there is none. Like trying to praise walking simulators as high art etc.

I'm hoping this post is sarcastic.

rashbeep · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth is, they're making the game in all in first person because it's easier. It would be a much larger artistic undertaking to have to frame scenes, do quality performance capture, and actually plot the story line to be more than a cumulative fetch quest. Gamers love to ascribe artistic merit where there is none. Like trying to praise walking simulators as high art etc.

The truth is you havent the faintest idea what you're talking about, so please stop trying to pretend otherwise

Black Chamber · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
You're not controlling every action of someone's being in a video game.

Actually, you kind of do.

• Walking
• Running
• Standing
• Sitting
• Sleeping
• Clothing the character
• Feeding the character
• Making choices that affect the life of the character
• Progressing and leveling-up the character
• Healing the character
• Choosing romance options for the character
• Training the character
• Using the restroom [Death Stranding]
...and many more.

We control a lot regarding the characters we play as.

No42.05W70.2 said:
What is the difference between a dialogue sequence in a video game and a scene in a movie?

In the case of Cyberpunk 2077 - The first person cutscenes are interactive and appear seamlessly within the flow of the game.

No42.05W70.2 said:
There is a rule and standard that you don't compose scenes from one angle and perspective. The objective of a visual medium of storytelling is to capture the action and pertinent details in the frame. Putting things in first person does not achieve a good artistic outcome, and no it does not put you "in control" of the character.

That's nonsense.

There is no one set rule for how an artist can create a scene visually in either a movie or video game. It's up to the audience to decide whether they like it or not.

HK-47 · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Yup all those games are 100% cringe, except Portal, but that's because the writing is funny. Man I really have always loathed Bioshock in particular. The way gamers eat Ken Levine's ass for his pretentious, tedious, narcolepsy inducing bullshit is the worst. Omg its a WITTLE GURWL,,, I have the feels!! I'm saving her!! lol no.

You can't even keep your points straight

Deleted member 8196 · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Yup all those games are 100% cringe, except Portal, but that's because the writing is funny. Man I really have always loathed Bioshock in particular. The way gamers eat Ken Levine's ass for his pretentious, tedious, narcolepsy inducing bullshit is the worst. Omg its a WITTLE GURWL,,, I have the feels!! I'm saving her!! lol no.

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

Black Chamber said:
In the case of Cyberpunk 2077 - The first person cutscenes are interactive and appear seamless within the flow of the game.

Interactive to a point. You're choosing dialogue options and whether or not to shoot people. And oftentimes not even that. The point is, these sequences are meant to provide a structure and narrative to the game. They're not really there to be part of the play mechanics. So let's not pretend that they are.

bbq of doom · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth is, they're making the game in all in first person because it's easier. It would be a much larger artistic undertaking to have to frame scenes, do quality performance capture, and actually plot the story line to be more than a cumulative fetch quest. Gamers love to ascribe artistic merit where there is none. Like trying to praise walking simulators as high art etc.

I've seen some baseless posts in my day but this might be top 10. The moment we get into a pissing contest over something as subjective as "artistic merit" (whatever that means) is the moment we lose the plot.

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Interactive to a point. You're choosing dialogue options and whether or not to shoot people. And oftentimes not even that. The point is, these sequences are meant to provide a structure and narrative to the game. They're not really there to be part of the play mechanics.

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

Crossing Eden said:

The truth hurts man. Some of you are so wrapped up in the "choices" that "you made" in video games. When you just pressed the pause and play buttons on different canned sequences. You ascribe such depth of meaning to those play and pause buttons though. It is honestly very funny!

Zephy · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth is, they're making the game in all in first person because it's easier. It would be a much larger artistic undertaking to have to frame scenes, do quality performance capture, and actually plot the story line to be more than a cumulative fetch quest. Gamers love to ascribe artistic merit where there is none. Like trying to praise walking simulators as high art etc.

I think it's too early to judge those aspects of the game. You don't know that it will have uninteresting fetch quests. And even in first person, I'm sure there's room for plenty of performance capture for every character other than the player. While you are right that it probably makes the game easier to develop in some aspects, it doesn't automatically strip it of all artistic value and make it not ambitious. It's still one of the most ambitious games ever made, probably only topped by Rockstar games (maybe not even, who knows yet).

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

skeezx said:
so the writing's the issue, not the perspective?

No I'm saying Portal is entertaining the way a podcast is entertaining. Notice how Portal doesn't really have a storyline though? It is all constructed around that conceit that you are a test subject, and the dialogue is the robot carrying out the test. As soon as you try to introduce a deeper narrative into that conceit, it will fall apart.

Black Chamber · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Interactive to a point. You're choosing dialogue options and whether or not to shoot people. And oftentimes not even that. The point is, these sequences are meant to provide a structure and narrative to the game. They're not really there to be part of the play mechanics. So let's not pretend that they are.

Do you even know anything about Cyberpunk 2077? Have you been keeping up with it's development, watching all the interviews, things like that? If you had, you would not have written any of this because you would already know that what you're saying isn't correct. There's a lot more going on in the interactive cutscenes than just "Do I shoot this person or not?" They said that you can look around freely during them and for example, someone walking in the doorway can be mumbling something that you can bring into the conversation, or you can look at an item and bring it into the conversation.

There's a lot more to them than just choosing option A or option B.

bbq of doom · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth hurts man. Some of you are so wrapped up in the "choices" that "you made" in video games. When you just pressed the pause and play buttons on different canned sequences. You ascribe such depth of meaning to those play and pause buttons though. It is honestly very funny!

You just described every single video game ever created.

Jake_brake · Sep 2, 2019

Van Bur3n said:
They said there are going to be third person cutscenes. Why are folk still complaining. My issue with it is solved.

Thats the issue though, it's not clear enough. He did not say, "there will be third person cutscenes." But rather that very occasionally you will see your player in cutscenes. Like the ripperdoc, NOT like V getting up in the morning.

That's what it sounds like

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

Zephyriel said:
I think it's too early to judge those aspects of the game. You don't know that it will have uninteresting fetch quests. And even in first person, I'm sure there's room for plenty of performance capture for every character other than the player. While you are right that it probably makes the game easier to develop in some aspects, it doesn't automatically strip it of all artistic value and make it not ambitious. It's still one of the most ambitious games ever made, probably only topped by Rockstar games (maybe not even, who knows yet).

It doesn't strip the game of artistic merit. But we shouldn't act like they made some great artistic choice in doing it either. Piecing together actual cutscenes is expensive. It requires a lot of production work, and creative labor. Putting the camera on a stick (ie character) and writing a radio drama.. much more simple.

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth hurts man. Some of you are so wrapped up in the "choices" that "you made" in video games. When you just pressed the pause and play buttons on different canned sequences. You ascribe such depth of meaning to those play and pause buttons though. It is honestly very funny!

I genuinely can't imagine speaking like this when you unironically think making a first person game is easier and that performance capture is not involved in first person games.

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth hurts man. Some of you are so wrapped up in the "choices" that "you made" in video games. When you just pressed the pause and play buttons on different canned sequences. You ascribe such depth of meaning to those play and pause buttons though. It is honestly very funny!

It's time to stop posting lad. Please.

No42.05W70.2 said:
It doesn't strip the game of artistic merit. But we shouldn't act like they made some great artistic choice in doing it either. Piecing together actual cutscenes is expensive. It requires a lot of production work, and creative labor. Putting the camera on a stick (ie character) and writing a radio drama.. much more simple.

Actually wait, please lay out exactly how you think a cutscene is made in a first person game. 🤔

Deleted member 25117 · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
There is a rule and standard that you don't compose scenes from one angle and perspective. The objective of a visual medium of storytelling is to capture the action and pertinent details in the frame. Putting things in first person does not achieve a good artistic outcome, and no it does not put you "in control" of the character.

No42.05W70.2 said:
Is Black Mirror Bandersnatch a video game?

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth is, they're making the game in all in first person because it's easier. It would be a much larger artistic undertaking to have to frame scenes, do quality performance capture, and actually plot the story line to be more than a cumulative fetch quest. Gamers love to ascribe artistic merit where there is none. Like trying to praise walking simulators as high art etc.

Oh no not this shit again.

texhnolyze · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
It doesn't strip the game of artistic merit. But we shouldn't act like they made some great artistic choice in doing it either. Piecing together actual cutscenes is expensive. It requires a lot of production work, and creative labor. Putting the camera on a stick (ie character) and writing a radio drama.. much more simple.

So you're basically underestimating writing job in video games in favor of cinematic direction.

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

Ferris Bueller said:

Why wasn't Bandersnatch shot in first person guys? It's so much more immersive that way.

Zephy · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
It doesn't strip the game of artistic merit. But we shouldn't act like they made some great artistic choice in doing it either. Piecing together actual cutscenes is expensive. It requires a lot of production work, and creative labor. Putting the camera on a stick (ie character) and writing a radio drama.. much more simple.

Judging from your other posts in this thread, either you are extremely stubborn, or youbare arguing in bad faith. Either way, I don't see the point in engaging in this conversation further. Like someone else mentioned, it's time to stop posting.

HK-47 · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
The truth hurts man. Some of you are so wrapped up in the "choices" that "you made" in video games. When you just pressed the pause and play buttons on different canned sequences. You ascribe such depth of meaning to those play and pause buttons though. It is honestly very funny!

You've cracked the video game code

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Why wasn't Bandersnatch shot in first person guys? It's so much more immersive that way.

Explain how you think a first person cutscene is made in a modern AAA first person game. Like, genuinely lay out what you think goes into it.

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

texhnolyze said:
So you're basically underestimating writing job in video games in favor of cinematic direction.

I think video games are trying to cheat a visual medium when they do this gimmicky first person thing. Games are not books. You can't insert an omnipotent narrator into it. So therefore you must grapple with the fact that you're framing action, and you have to create the aesthetic of the world without expository description etc.

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

TIL first person is a gimmick. 😃

texhnolyze · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
I think video games are trying to cheat a visual medium when they do this gimmicky first person thing. Games are not books. You can't insert an omnipotent narrator into it. So therefore you must grapple with the fact that you're framing action, and you have to create the aesthetic of the world without expository description etc.

Why is that A should be better than B? When there are various genres in video games? Why should everything become homogeneous? How would that exactly benefit us as the consumers?

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

HK-47 said:
You've cracked the video game code

Some of us play video games to play. Not because we think we're master philosophers, and the game maker is giving us these "choices." You jump, run, shoot to win and level up. To achieve mastery. Not bc you're unlocking the meaning of life or whatever it is that Ken Levine fans think they're doing.

EVIL · Sep 2, 2019

Can someone explain to me what the big deal is because we now have a 33 page thread with people arguing back and forth. The game, from the earliest reveal was clearly shown to have some third person cut-scenes while the bulk of the story is delivered in a first person setting, I don't understand what the problem is. You customize your character for those moments and a sense of immersion, seeing your clothes from a first person view, or your face in a mirror and the full character in the scattered 3rd person cut-scenes, which I am sure will still carry weight.

What I dont understand is that it was already shown like this, where people hoping a bunch of story stuff was suddenly third person? where people having issues with first person story delivery when the first reveal came out?

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

EVIL said:
Can someone explain to me what the big deal is because we now have a 33 page thread with people arguing back and forth. The game, from the earliest reveal was clearly shown to have some third person cut-scenes while the bulk of the story is delivered in a first person setting, I don't understand what the problem is. You customize your character for those moments and a sense of immersion, seeing your clothes from a first person view, or your face in a mirror and the full character in the scattered 3rd person cut-scenes, which I am sure will still carry weight.

As I said before, some people genuinely can't come to terms with the fact that this is a first person RPG. And this is the discourse we can expect as a result:

bulletyen said:
I grew up playing 3rd person games forever and despite my recent efforts to get into 1st person my preference will always be what it is. I'll complain all day and all night as much as I want, I know it's not gonna change anything but it's my right to do

and then there's just the general toxicity that comes with either willful ignorance and people just genuinely not knowing what the actual fuck they're talking about.

No42.05W70.2 · Sep 2, 2019

texhnolyze said:
Why is that A should be better than B? When there are various genres in video games? Why should everything become homogeneous? How would that exactly benefit us as the consumers?

They shouldn't be homogenous. But to my eye, Cyberpunk is meant to be this sprawling big budget RPG, with the intention to emotionally involve the player.

Crossing Eden · Sep 2, 2019

No42.05W70.2 said:
Cyberpunk is meant to be this sprawling big budget RPG, with the intention to emotionally involve the player.

It already is? Do you think a first person perspective means this game that costs tens of millions of dollars to develop and market isn't a big budget RPG and that it won't invoke any feelings from the player when they're literally on record stating otherwise?

CDPR: Cyberpunk 2077 will still have "some very occasional" 3rd person cutscenes

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