CDPR Bosses in 2019: "No mandatory crunch." 2020: "Never mind, mandatory crunch."

[residentgrigo]

I once worked 56 hours a week (with only 40 of those being paid). I quit 3 months later and changed my profession. The smartest thing I ever did. Having the team now work for at least 6 days a week for 2 months as the minimum isn´t something you just shrug off. My body certainly didn´t. But TW3 was forged in an even worse environment so there is that. Progress?
Adam Kiciński is worth 1.05 billion btw. He and his company can afford to delay again by 1 or 2 months. They really can and it´s not like the staff will get an immediate break when the game goes gold. Especially if I consider CDPR´s past. At least the Next Gen versions will release later.

 

[Corralx]

If there any small silver lining to this it's that they are getting paid OT and 10% of annual profits split to members of the team. Bonuses should be pretty good as profits for CDP has been good with 77 going to spike them up running up to end of 2020 fiscal year.

Still money while nice to have and makes living easier wont buy you back all the hours spend in the office, and things missed etc. because of that.

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That's not really a silver lining, it's again smart PR to soothe the issue.
Developers will not only not see the money until late 2021/2022 most likely (because of how financial cycles work in the industry), but it's way less money that you might think.
Because it releases very late in the year, most of the profit will likely be accounted for in the 2021 fiscal year, so only a fraction of the 10% of the total revenue in 2020 will be actually split between all devs. They are not stupid, they've done the math before making such a statement.

 

[Noodle]

ITS their work, i got crunched a lot in my work and no one cries for me, why this must be a special case?

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That's an argument for more companies to be criticised, not fewer.

 

[Zelas]

Why are people arguing that devs are being compensated for this specific period of crunch? The statement says they're getting what they had always been entitled to every year. They were promised to get the 10% cut without having to crunch. The bosses at CDPR are responding to the broken promise with nothing but a shoulder shrug.

 

[javiergame4]

I crunch myself at work as well and get overtime.. it's nice to see they will split 10% profits to the employees. I just hope the game isn't too rushed to finish, either wise it is probably better to just delay it.

 

[Tovarisc]

That's not really a silver lining, it's again smart PR to soothe the issue.
Developers will not only not see the money until late 2021/2022 most likely (because of how financial cycles work in the industry), but it's way less money that you might think.
Because it releases very late in the year, most of the profit will likely be accounted for in the 2021 fiscal year, so only a fraction of the 10% of the total revenue in 2020 will be actually split between all devs. They are not stupid, they've done the math before making such a statement.

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Getting paid OT and bonus from company profits is small silver lining when you normally hear that all devs get for forced crunching that kills your soul is some riding crop so they crunch even more.

Also statement states that this 10% from profits as bonus goes back years so it isn't something they cooked up as somekind counter to Jason's story. So if that is the case then employees of CDP are looking at 10% share from 2021 profits too etc.

 

[TheZynster]

Getting paid OT and bonus from company profits is small silver lining when you normally hear that all devs get for forced crunching that kills your soul is some riding crop so they crunch even more.

Also statement states that this 10% from profits as bonus goes back years so it isn't something they cooked up as somekind counter to Jason's story. So if that is the case then employees of CDP are looking at 10% share from 2021 profits too etc.

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I mean most of these jobs are salary based aren't they? It's not like mine where I get paid OT. Jesus, if I didn't get paid OT I would have quit long ago.

been at my job 10 years but have almost worked 14 in terms of hours. Nearly 600 hours of OT every year since I started

 

[TheStebe]

Me personally this simply isnt good enough.

No amount of money can conpensate from crunch and the mental health damage it can do to a person... they need to do better

 

[LifeLine]

Studio Head put out a statement

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Thread title makes it sound like 10% is something new to compensate for crunch, but they've actually been doing 10% for a while even without crunch.

Misleading title.

 

[Noodle]

Thread title makes it sound like 10% is something new to compensate for crunch, but they've actually been doing 10% for a while even without crunch.

Misleading title.

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Yeah, you could add "Update: CDPR to give developers wages" and it would be as accurate. Employees aren't getting anything extra for this crunch.

 

[MrMysterio]

Wonder if the QA testers get that kind of percentage when crunching. Hahah, of course not.

 

[Razmos]

And they continue to be a shitty company who are completely unable to respond to criticism correctly just like before

 

[Corralx]

Getting paid OT and bonus from company profits is small silver lining when you normally hear that all devs get for forced crunching that kills your soul is some riding crop so they crunch even more.

Also statement states that this 10% from profits as bonus goes back years so it isn't something they cooked up as somekind counter to Jason's story. So if that is the case then employees of CDP are looking at 10% share from 2021 profits too etc.

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10% profit bonus on release year is not something new for CD Porject (and other companies do as well).
But you don't get 10% *every* year. Only on the year you release typically.
And the late release makes it so it's very likely revenues from holidays won't be accounted for until 2021 (which is a huge chunk of total revenues throughout a year) and therefor not given to devs as bonus, as I said.

 

[Kwyjibo]

From the other thread:



The dev team for Cyberpunk 2077 is around 500 people. 2 million / 500 = $4000. Does that sound like an appropriate compensation for crunching your brains out?

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4k for 6 days work?

Where do I sign up?

 

[CatAssTrophy]

Doesn't matter if they're paid more.

More money doesn't magically make those people able to withstand crunch mentally and physically.

 

[Deleted member 5491]

Are you going to buy/play the game?

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No, because I don't support companies who are willingly doing this because of their own incompetence/malice. Same with me not buying games with loot boxes in it, or mtx that have gameplay impact

 

[FullNelson]

4k for 6 days work?

Where do I sign up?

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The compensation is not because of the crunch. They are getting paid for the sixth day, but that compensation is a yearly bonus.

 

[F-Pina]

With the amount of studios and people working in the videogame industry in Poland, it's time for Unionization.

 

[WackoWambo]

I personally believe every gamer should split 10% of the yummy yum that comes out of CDPR devs when we give them their hourly blowjobs.

I'm glad Resetera solved crunch!

 

[bes.gen]

man, i can understand honesty of admitting not having the will power skip a game of this caliber, so indirectly feeding into this horrible cycle. (i am doing it too btw.)

but defending stuff like this with all sorts of whataboutisms, corporate boot licking drives me nuts.

shit i see Jason gets on twitter, for questioning basic humane work conditions at game development etc.

 

[Deleted member 2840]

From the other thread:



The dev team for Cyberpunk 2077 is around 500 people. 2 million / 500 = $4000. Does that sound like an appropriate compensation for crunching your brains out?

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Of course not but to be "fair", I kinda doubt that their profit in 2020 will be "only" 20 million dollars. I'd put it at at least 200 million. So, while crunch is still fucking terrible and has no place in our industry, a 40k bonus in Poland seems damn nice.

 

[jfkgoblue]

Yeah, I don't get what the issue is. Armed forces service should be totally likened to employment. Hell, the developers should be glad no one's shooting at them, you feel me?

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I was just relating a personal experience, but it is the same thing in countless other fields, product launches, customer projects, construction projects, these are examples of areas where some sort of mandatory overtime will occur. It's not fun, and it can be a very hard and grueling time, but it's only for a few weeks, it's not the worst thing to happen to them.

 

[Udreif]

Ah. So their either using an agile or scrum approach to managing their project. Good to see that 10% share.

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Which makes me wonder how they can still fuck up the managing so bad that they have to introduce a 6 week work day now. Like, the whole point of agile is being able to adjust to new circumstances, take a step back and reduce the work load if necessary. They literally saw that they didn't have enough time to complete all that they're trying to do before release, and instead of dropping some of it or delaying the game again to add a new, final sprint, they decided to make every worker have more hours per week instead.

 

[platocplx]

Which makes me wonder how they can still fuck up the managing so bad that they have to introduce a 6 week work day now. Like, the whole point of agile is being able to adjust to new circumstances, take a step back and reduce the work load if necessary. They literally saw that they didn't have enough time to complete all that they're trying to do before release, and instead of dropping some of it or delaying the game again to add a new, final sprint, they decided to make every worker have more hours per week instead.

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Yeah seems to me there is something not working with the approach if they arent working well enough in sprints, im curious to know now how long their cycles are.

 

[His Majesty]

I'm currently working 100 hours a week for 3 weeks. Can't imagine having to do that for months on end.

 

[Nintendo]

And they continue to be a shitty company who are completely unable to respond to criticism correctly just like before

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What have they done before?

 

[Weltall Zero]

Wait.. They tried to spin?

Statement literally says that 10% bonus is tradition going back years, they aren't even hiding it or trying to spin it. 10% of company revenue as bonus for employee every year, going back years.

If someone opts to tell themselves that 10% is for 1.5 months of overtime then that is on them, spinning themselves.

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They are mentioning this fact (one that employees should presumably already know) in the same email they tell people they have to work overtime. It's kind of disingenuous to say they don't intend one as compensation for the other in any way, shape or form.

In any case my point is that multiple people replied to my earlier post, saying they feel 4k is a good compensation "for 6 Saturdays", so yes, people absolutely interpreted it as such, whether you want to call it "spinning themselves" or whatever else.

4k for 6 days work?

Where do I sign up?

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Case in point.

 

[Nintendo]

Of course not but to be "fair", I kinda doubt that their profit in 2020 will be "only" 20 million dollars. I'd put it at at least 200 million. So, while crunch is still fucking terrible and has no place in our industry, a 40k bonus in Poland seems damn nice.

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What makes you think it will be equally divided? "Split directly among the team" could mean anything. Do CDPR usually split their profit equally among the devs? Because he said "like in recent years"

Unless I'm mistaken, the 10% could be 9% for the higher ups and 1% for the devs for all we know.

 

[Razmos]

What have they done before?

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The transphobic tweets, the transphobic ads in game, their terrible views on diversity etc

 

[Metalsnakezero]

The game will probably be good. But it not going to be crunching for years good. We're pass the point in game development where their doing this cause they lack funds.

 

[Deleted member 56803]

The transphobic tweets, the transphobic ads in game, their terrible views on diversity etc

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The sexism in their work too

 

[Udreif]

The sexism in their work too

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And that article where they implied that sexism in the videogame industry didn't exist anymore and that diversity is good as long as it doesn't lead to conflict

At this point I'm just waiting for the inevitable surfacing of shady things going on inside the company somewhere down the line so people can stop ignoring the obvious signs.

 

[Kyuuji]

And that article where they implied that sexism in the videogame industry didn't exist anymore and that diversity is good as long as it doesn't lead to conflict

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Plus the one where they spoke to the importance of the game reflecting a 'wide range of political sympathies' of their staff, while it uses diversity as a promo tool for the creator at the expense of trans identities and features transphobic caricatures and adverts. In a country that's actively rejecting trans people alongside the LGBTQ+ community in general.

 

[rras1994]

The transphobic tweets, the transphobic ads in game, their terrible views on diversity etc

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And even if you just stick to the crunch issue, this isn't the first time that they've been called out for crunch - Witcher 3 was known to have terrible crunch and I defo remember when a story about CDPR's crunch broke they made a comment saying something like if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen, which was very dismissive of the criticisms. I feel like this happens everytime with CDPR on basically any issue whether it's how they've treated minorities in their games, their blatant transphobia or their crunch practices - people always act like it's brand new information or an isolated one time event, but it keeps happening over and over again, and constantly having people acting surprised or downplay the issues.

Plus the one where they spoke to the importance of the game reflecting a 'wide range of political sympathies' of their staff, while it uses diversity as a promo tool for the creator at the expense of trans identities and features transphobic caricatures and adverts. In a country that's actively rejecting trans people alongside the LGBTQ+ community in general.

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And then there was the time they implied that they were representing minorities by featuring elves and dwarves in the Witcher series because it had themes that were based on racism. You know when they barely had any minorities in their games. That was a big ooph.

 

[julia crawford]

Gets easier and easier not to purchase their games to be honest. This is product development and programmed overtime is an obvious sign of poor scope and time management and mandated overtime is indefensible.

 

[Inyourprime]

What a stupid take. It's like saying "hey, your SO treats you bad? it's your fault cause you're not leaving them!". Jesus.

Stupid people do not understand that not everyone is alike. Not every employee is the same. People have different characters. Yes, some can handle stress, some can handle saying what they think out loud, but many aren't that "brave" and immune to bad working conditions.

"Just quite and find another job" is such a fucking awful take. What if I work at CDPR and I want to stay in Warsaw, not move to join another studio. What if other job won't pay as well. I'm staying because I need money, not because I'm fucking fine with crunch.

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Yup. No empathy at all. Just give me my fucking video game. Not even trying for a second to put themselves in their shoes or even try to imagine what it may feel like having to work 6 days straight for 9-10, or fuck even 12 hours a day. I've never had to experience that, thankfully.

 

[Deleted member 49535]

Just delay it again.

 

[mojo]

Just delay it again.

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They said there's no way the game doesn't come out this year while everything was being delayed because of covid so that would be another thing added to the pile of them being full of shit.

 

[RROCKMAN]

I brought the special Xbox cause I thought it looked cool so I'm unfortunately locked in

But yeah CD projeckt is riding that goofy train way too hard

 

[Friskykillface]

Crunch will always happen to most huge games unfortunately
I'll just buy it used

 

[LifeLine]

Of course not but to be "fair", I kinda doubt that their profit in 2020 will be "only" 20 million dollars. I'd put it at at least 200 million. So, while crunch is still fucking terrible and has no place in our industry, a 40k bonus in Poland seems damn nice.

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A bonus they were always going to get. They've had 10% (however that is divided) for a couple years, the crunch is new after being told the company doesn't believe in it.

 

[Apath]

.

 

[Tovarisc]

Crunch will always happen to most huge games unfortunately

I'll just buy it used

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I never have understood this.

Someone makes kinda moral choice of boycotting, in this case, game in order not to support studios practices. Then at same time slipping that second hand copy of said studios game to the shopping cart because they still want to enjoy fruits of that mistreated labor.

Always seemed bit two faced to me in a way.

 

[RROCKMAN]

I never have understood this.

Someone makes kinda moral choice of boycotting, in this case, game in order not to support studios practices. Then at same time slipping that second hand copy of said studios game to the shopping cart because they still want to enjoy fruits of that mistreated labor.

Always seemed bit two faced to me in a way.

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I honestly think it pisses off the suits much more than you simply not buying the game. With someone not buying you can just rationalize that they weren't into it in the first place but with a used game it is straight up a lost sale. Thats why they are trying so damn hard to get rid of the used game market and push online passes and season passes.


As a matter of fact this very game has already been making strives against that since the special edition of the console ties the game to the first account booted onto it instead of making it a code you could resell. If I had a code I would have sold my copy of the game at this news and put that money towards something else.

I dont have that option anymore. And they are now guaranteed a full price sale from someone interested as opposed to someone else getting that game from me and them losing the 60/70 dollars.

 

[Deleted member 15311]

Now that's just absurd now. Next you're going to tell me they should form a union.



The ND stuff is analogous to this because they also got shit on for LGBT issues as well, as has CDPR. They've had death threats sent to voice actors, etc. And their game was highly anticipated. Hard to measure the reactions to be honest so who knows but I don't think ND or CDPR are getting off easy compared to Ubisoft. Hell we can barely keep a thread on Ubisoft abuses on the front page for a week.

People don't care unless it affects them personally. That empathy only exists if it's a shared experience. Perhaps that's pessimistic but it's what I gather about these things.

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That is true, Ubisoft is getting away with a lot of crap lately and we're talking about borderline criminal stuff.ND got shit on and i criticized them as well for the crunch part as i will criticize any dev that does it.Like i said, one or two weeks i think it is acceptable, i do it sometimes at my job, more than that i just say, sorry but no. I do remember lots of people defending ND because "they make masterpieces" and to me that is not acceptable, just like CDPR does masterpieces and it is not acceptable to do this sort of deal to employees. It's just a videogame, is not the end of the world if it gets delayed a bit.

 

[TraderPoe]

From the other thread:



The dev team for Cyberpunk 2077 is around 500 people. 2 million / 500 = $4000. Does that sound like an appropriate compensation for crunching your brains out?

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Pre taxes too. So assuming they aren't getting a salary increase or daily bounuses for the extra day worked, they wont be getting properly compensated for the extra crunch hours.

Also for some people, its not about the money and instead about their livelihood. ~2k after taxes is nothing for the extra labor and life sacrifies they will have to make

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

Just delay it again.

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And miss next gen launch? Nah, they won't. They will crunch and maybe even release the game unfinished / buggy to maximize profits.

This is just business as usual. And the more ambitious and complex games situations will become even worse.

Maybe it's time to cut some of the ambition and make more streamlined/focused games again.

 

[slothrop]

I do think unionization is important. You can still work insane overtime if you are unionized and really want to. But there can be protection from it being exploitative. I don't know enough about polish labor laws and the general business environment there to really comment on this case without more research.

 

[Call me YHWH]

UNIONIZE.

 

[idioteque]

"Not a whole lot to do"
"Crunch time is fine"

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mmmm... okay? We're in a global pandemic, there's naff all to do. I'm not saying crunch is right by any stretch of the imagination, it sucks. But if there's ever a time to do it, it's now. In my opinion of course.