Capcom needs to include more women protagonists in Resident Evil sequels

RedSwirl · Jan 24, 2021

Chaos2Frozen said:
Erm, didn't RE6 have 3 playable female characters?

Helena, Sherry and Ada?

Het_Nkik said:
I played through RE6 co-op and I was Helena and Sherry in those respective campaigns so I didn't even realize this was a problem with this game. Does the game make you use the dudes only in single player?

SirKai said:
One of the silver linings, at least with RE7, is that even though it does have a male lead, you do still play as Mia for a pretty major chunk of the game, and RE7 has a LOT of very important female characters (RE8 looks to be similar in this regard).

Moira, as much as Sheva, deserves to return. She's the best RE character introduced in the series since probably RE2. Revelations 2 deserves a LOT more recognition and spotlight, and a lot more credit. It's hella low budget but is an absolute slam dunk.

And is better than all the RE games that have come out after it.

BloodRayne said:
Helena is a horrible character. Ada isn't much better after RE2.

Sherry was a nice surprise and I wish she would spearhead some sort of "new generation" along with Rebecca.

Sanox said:
Bit of a weird thing to say when

Re1 shared mc spot between Jill and Chris
Re2 shared mc spot between Claire and Leon and Ada as extra
Re3 had Jill as the mc with Carlos as extra
Re4 had Leon as mc with Ada as extra in her sidestory
Re5 had Chris and Sheva
Re6 had Leon/Helena, Jake/Sherry, Ada's solo story and only Chris/Piers as a all male duo
Revelations had Jill
Revelations 2 had Claire and later Barry each with someone tagging along
Re0 has Rebecca and Billy
Code Veronica has Claire

Re games without female characters weren't really a thing only Re4 really stands out with Ada only being a side character.. that is until now where for whatever reason its Ethan out of all characters to get to be the mc in 2 Re game back to back when it only happened before with Chris because Re6 had multiple teams in the story. Its so crazy to me that freaking Ethan out of all characters gets 2 solo games

Every single RE game has had at least one male and one female playable character, even if one of them is only briefly playable sometimes. I'm pretty sure this is intentional.

Still, you can definitely argue the emphasis waned after the PS1 games. Jill is very arguably the protagonist of RE1, and Claire just as much RE2, but from RE4 onward the women do seem to have smaller roles (depending on how you play RE6).

And there's still the Logan's Run problem so many Japanese game franchises have with their female characters.

NightShift · Jan 24, 2021

The Revelations games are pretty much mainline anyway and those are majority female. Capcom should still utilise their female characters more though. Like it frustrates me so much that we haven't seen Jill canonically since 2009.

ArgyleReptile · Jan 24, 2021

KillLaCam said:
Capcom needs to feature more anyone who isn't Ethan

Basically. Would've certainly preferred if Mia was the protag in RE8.

I also agree that there needs to be more black/brown heroes in the RE world as well.

Princess Bubblegum · Jan 24, 2021

RedSwirl said:
Every single RE game has had at least one male and one female playable character, even if one of them is only briefly playable sometimes. I'm pretty sure this is intentional.

Still, you can definitely argue the emphasis waned after the PS1 games. Jill is very arguably the protagonist of RE1, and Claire just as much RE2, but from RE4 onward the women do seem to have smaller roles (depending on how you play RE6).

And there's still the Logan's Run problem so many Japanese game franchises have with their female characters.

This is a good point. There isn't a single mainline game where you play as a woman from start to finish.

What's the "Logan's Run problem"? 🤔 Never actually seen that film. Edit: Nevermind, Google answered that for me.

NDA-Man · Jan 24, 2021

Also, while Jill is selectable, isn't it canon that Chris killed the Tyrant? Ergo, Jill was in a Cell for the entire game? Granted, I know what runthrough of RE1 doesn't actually line up with the future of the series--there's no actual playthrough in RE1 or Remake that lines up with everyone surviving and Wesker getting skewered so its sorta loosey-goosey both of them were active in the masnion, IIRC.

SapphiCine said:
This is a good point. There isn't a single mainline game where you play as a woman from start to finish.

What's the "Logan's Run problem"? 🤔 Never actually seen that film.

You get rid of any character who isn't young. Twenties at maximum.

Lord Fanny · Jan 24, 2021

Sanox said:
Bit of a weird thing to say when

Re1 shared mc spot between Jill and Chris
Re2 shared mc spot between Claire and Leon and Ada as extra
Re3 had Jill as the mc with Carlos as extra
Re4 had Leon as mc with Ada as extra in her sidestory
Re5 had Chris and Sheva
Re6 had Leon/Helena, Jake/Sherry, Ada's solo story and only Chris/Piers as a all male duo
Revelations had Jill
Revelations 2 had Claire and later Barry each with someone tagging along
Re0 has Rebecca and Billy
Code Veronica has Claire

Re games without female characters weren't really a thing only Re4 really stands out with Ada only being a side character.. that is until now where for whatever reason its Ethan out of all characters to get to be the mc in 2 Re game back to back when it only happened before with Chris in 5 and 6 because Re6 had multiple teams in the story. Its so crazy to me that freaking Ethan out of all characters gets 2 solo games

Well, I think the point the OP makes is that even if women are playable, their actual role in the narrative has been reduced since RE3. And I think that's fair. Think about how Jill and Claire split equal time in RE1 and 2, respectively, and then compare that to Sheeva or Helena is 5 and 6, respectively, who really don't have much of an arch and after a certain point just become along for the ride. I do think the OP did leave out a few key entries, as a I pointed out, but overall, they aren't wrong.

BloodRayne said:
To me Sherry was the main character in that story. She has motivation and moves the plot forward. Jake is a passive character, he doesn't have much going on.

You may feel that way personally, but Jake and his relationship to Wesker clearly becomes the focus as that story goes on. I agree, she ends up being more interesting, but it's very inaccurate to say Jake is a passive character as him finding out about his lineage is clearly what the game wants to be the focal point of his arc and, to some degree, the game as a whole.

Razgriz-Specter · Jan 24, 2021

0. Rebecca & Billy
1. Chris & Jill
2. Leon & Claire
3. Jill - Carlos sidekick
CV. Claire- Chris sidekick later on
4. All Leon show
5. Chris & Sheva
6. Jake & Sherry, Leon & Helena(Helena had more story than Leon who was along for the ride), Ada solo campaign
Rev1.Jill & Parker, Jill & Chris, Chris & Jessica
Rev2.Claire & Moira, Barry and Natalia
RE7. Etham - Mia kindasidekick
RE8. Ethan

Bathory · Jan 24, 2021

Richter1887 said:
Black/brown people too.

Jill is the one character out of every character in the series I want to see more of. Her final appearance is RE5 and they pretty much assassinated her character there. I want her to return and slay.

Yes, we need more black and brown people in Resident Evil and japanese games in general, I was so happy with the announcement of Projec Athia, seing a black woman in a game made by Square

Hours Left · Jan 24, 2021

Razgriz-Specter said:
0. Rebecca & Billy
1. Chris & Jill
2. Leon & Claire
3. Jill - Carlos sidekick
CV. Claire- Chris sidekick later on
4. All Leon show
5. Chris & Sheva
6. Jake & Sherry, Leon & Helena(Helena had more story than Leon who was along for the ride), Ada solo campaign
Rev1.Jill & Parker, Jill & Chris, Chris & Jessica
Rev2.Claire & Moira, Barry and Natalia
RE7. Etham - Mia kindasidekick
RE8. Ethan

Don't forget Chris & Piers for RE6.

Kinsei · Jan 24, 2021

Honestly I think RE deals with this far better than most series. Like Sherry is a pretty integral part of the Jake campaign of RE6 and Ada gets her own campaign. RE7 has multiple segments where you play as Mia and she's really important to the story. I'd also consider the Revelations games to be just as mainline as stuff like 0 and Code Veronica. That said a new game spearheaded by a female character would be great.

They absolutely need to bring back Sheva.

Also Josh Stone from RE5 needs a starring role.

4 Get! · Jan 24, 2021

I'd argue that we need more protagonists of color more. Resident evil had one black side protagonist who barely had an influence in the story she was in and was thrown to the wayside(for another blond haired white male) never to be heard from again after Chris got what he wanted, even though more B.O.W.s are out there.

They could easily give her and/or Josh Stone a game of their own

Screen-Shot-2020-04-14-at-12.20.38-PM.png

Aside from that, we had Luis(unplayable and killed), Ada(playable in only a side story in 4, small 6 campaign, and small segment in 2), and Carlos(Playable in a part of 3, unknown where he is).

Lord Fanny · Jan 24, 2021

SapphiCine said:
This is a good point. There isn't a single mainline game where you play as a woman from start to finish.

What's the "Logan's Run problem"? 🤔 Never actually seen that film.

RE6's Ada campaign is her from start to finish. If you just mean a single individual game, there is Zero. I think there is one time when Rebecca is knocked out of action, but I believe there is also once where Billy is, too, and the start of the game is Rebecca only. Zero would be the closest, but no, technically outside Ada's campaign in 6, there is no mainline title where you play as a sole man or woman all the way through.

NDA-Man said:
Also, while Jill is selectable, isn't it canon that Chris killed the Tyrant? Ergo, Jill was in a Cell for the entire game? Granted, I know what runthrough of RE1 doesn't actually line up with the future of the series--there's no actual playthrough in RE1 or Remake that lines up with everyone surviving and Wesker getting skewered so its sorta loosey-goosey both of them were active in the masnion, IIRC.

There is no real solid 'canon' for the first two games, at least not that I am aware of. I think the official stance has always been that the 'canon' events are a mixture of all the scenarios that happen. But the canon part is largely irrelevant, since the discussion is about the overall presentation itself.

Razgriz-Specter · Jan 24, 2021

Hours Left said:
Don't forget Chris & Piers for RE6.

I'll always say RE6 should have been Chris & Jill, especially considering Chris goes missing and freaking Piers is the one to find him over Claire, Jill, Barry or Rebecca.

FakePlasticTree · Jan 24, 2021

I agree, in fact I think I argued this point in another thread a while back. It feels like we are always going back to Chris or Leon and not Jill or Claire.

Princess Bubblegum · Jan 24, 2021

It sounds like I missed a lot by not playing 6 but I also don't want to play 6.

akilshohen · Jan 24, 2021

RedSwirl said:
Still, you can definitely argue the emphasis waned after the PS1 games. Jill is very arguably the protagonist of RE1, and Claire just as much RE2, but from RE4 onward the women do seem to have smaller roles (depending on how you play RE6).

I think you can argue for Ada in RE6 too... Especially after you finish her campaign.

BloodRayne · Jan 24, 2021

Lord Fanny said:
RE6's Ada campaign is her from start to finish. If you just mean a single individual game, there is Zero. I think there is one time when Rebecca is knocked out of action, but I believe there is also once where Billy is, too, and the start of the game is Rebecca only. Zero would be the closest, but no, technically outside Ada's campaign in 6, there is no mainline title where you play as a sole man or woman all the way through.

If I'm not mistaken, the only time when Rebecca is not playable is when she's grabbed by the bug boss.
Billy gets thrown from a ledge at some point and you have an entire section to play Rebecca alone (the best part of the game in fact)

SofNascimento · Jan 24, 2021

Lord Fanny said:
Jill was in the first game in the same capacity as the remake, and Claire and Leon were split evenly in the second game. So, no, this is nonsense.

Nah, it's quite correct:

Sometimes I feel Jill Valentine becoming such a legendary character was one happy accident

Let's go back to 1996 and the original Resident Evil: If you show the live action intro to someone and ask them who do you think the protagonist of the game is, odds are they will say Chris Redfield. He is the narrrator and gets "top billing". But as we know, RE1 have two protagonists, Chris...

www.resetera.com

I do feel RE2 was more balanced between the two leads, but Leon and Claire played very different in the franchise going foward.

Aurc · Jan 24, 2021

I seriously think Claire needs to be the star of another mainline title. She was fantastic in the RE2 remake. She's got that badass angle people appreciate, but without compromising her more warm, compassionate side. Breaks my heart that we don't appear to be getting a Code Veronica remake anytime soon.

I think RE3 remake ruined Jill for me, and I already didn't care for the character even before that. She's easily the worst of the main four, imo. Just kind of your average two-dimensional "badass" action heroine. They really could've done better on the writing, imo, since lines like "My turn, bitch!" or "Bitch can't even swim" (both in reference to Nemesis, a monster she should be afraid of) just came across as cringy. I felt none of the warmth from her that I got from Leon, Claire, and Carlos.

Hours Left · Jan 24, 2021

Razgriz-Specter said:
I'll always say RE6 should have been Chris & Jill, especially considering Chris goes missing and freaking Piers is the one to find him over Claire, Jill, Barry or Rebecca.

Well, I think they were trying to cement the bond that Chris has with Piers, considering that it's heavily implied they have romantic feelings for one another.

Richter1887 · Jan 24, 2021

In almost every RE game the ladies are way more interesting than the men. I just wish they could be the ones who actually leads the game.

RE5 as an example has two protagonists. Sheva and Chris but it was clear they wrote the story around Chris first. They should have done the opposite.

I am hoping Jill returns in 9 or 10 and and brings back the glory she had in RE3 and the remake.

Killmonger said:
Yes, we need more black and brown people in Resident Evil and japanese games in general, I was so happy with the announcement of Projec Athia, seing a black woman in a game made by Square

Yeah Project Athia became much more interesting once I learned that we have a black lady as the protagonist. I have been wanting a game like that for years.

Deleted member 17184 · Jan 24, 2021

Lord Fanny said:
Yeah, but Ada was just a side-story in RE4. Her campaign in RE6 was a full campaign as long as all the others. You did have to unlock it in the original release for story reasons, but they patched that relatively quickly and all later re-releases had it unlocked from the beginning.

And I'd also say that Ada's characterization in that game wasn't very good, either. If women are going to be the leads, they need to be well-written. I'd say the way they were handled in the remakes are good examples of what I'm hoping for in sequels.

NightShift said:
The Revelations games are pretty much mainline anyway and those are majority female. Capcom should still utilise their female characters more though. Like it frustrates me so much that we haven't seen Jill canonically since 2009.

They're definitely marketed as spin-off games. It's no wonder that RE8 was supposed to be Rev3 but was "upgraded" because it got a good reception internally. The Revelations series isn't intended to be the focus.

Aurc · Jan 24, 2021

Cerulean_skylark said:
Mia up here being Umbrella paramilitary and she's relegated to mom who gets a bullet to the head in the trailer. :S

She's literally a bioterrorist. She really doesn't deserve... well, anything, but a prison cell.

Bathory · Jan 24, 2021

Richter1887 said:
In almost every RE game the ladies are way more interesting than the men. I just wish they could be the ones who actually leads the game.

RE5 as an example has two protagonists. Sheva and Chris but it was clear they wrote the story around Chris first. They should have done the opposite.

I am hoping Jill returns in 9 or 10 and and brings back the glory she had in RE3 and the remake.

Yeah Project Athia became much more interesting once I learned that we have a black lady as the protagonist. I have been wanting a game like that for years.

Me too, is truly the game that I'm more excited right now and I hope it succeeds, so can inspire another japanese games. We need more black people, woman not being sexualized, LGBTQ characters in general, really glad to see I'm not the only one.

Lord Fanny · Jan 24, 2021

SofNascimento said:
Nah, it's quite correct:

Sometimes I feel Jill Valentine becoming such a legendary character was one happy accident

Let's go back to 1996 and the original Resident Evil: If you show the live action intro to someone and ask them who do you think the protagonist of the game is, odds are they will say Chris Redfield. He is the narrrator and gets "top billing". But as we know, RE1 have two protagonists, Chris...

www.resetera.com

I do feel RE2 was more balanced between the two leads, but Leon and Claire played very different in the franchise going foward.

Yeah, linking to your own thread doesn't mean anything to me. You were wrong then, and you're wrong now. I haven't been super thrilled with Jill's portrayal post-RE3, but tbh, I get pretty tired of you constantly pushing this take in multiple threads so I think it's pretty overdue that I put you on the ignore list.

Khrn said:
And I'd also say that Ada's characterization in that game wasn't very good, either. If women are going to be the leads, they need to be well-written. I'd say the way they were handled in the remakes are good examples of what I'm hoping for in sequels.

They're definitely marketed as spin-off games. It's no wonder that RE8 was supposed to be Rev3 but was "upgraded" because it got a good reception internally. The Revelations series isn't intended to be the focus.

Well, depends on which Ada you are talking about. I was fine with the real Ada, but I'm largely okay with the pivot to superspy. I understand what you mean, though.

SofNascimento · Jan 24, 2021

Aurc said:
She's literally a bioterrorist. She really doesn't deserve... well, anything, but a prison cell.

The BSAA name their guns after Wesker. I mean, Mia is probably a hero in their eyes.

Princess Bubblegum · Jan 24, 2021

Hours Left said:
Well, I think they were trying to cement the bond that Chris has with Piers, considering that it's heavily implied they have romantic feelings for one another.

Doesn't Piers literally only exist in 6?

Modest Dumpster · Jan 24, 2021

Sanox said:
Bit of a weird thing to say when

Re1 shared mc spot between Jill and Chris
Re2 shared mc spot between Claire and Leon and Ada as extra
Re3 had Jill as the mc with Carlos as extra
Re4 had Leon as mc with Ada as extra in her sidestory
Re5 had Chris and Sheva
Re6 had Leon/Helena, Jake/Sherry, Ada's solo story and only Chris/Piers as a all male duo
Revelations had Jill
Revelations 2 had Claire and later Barry each with someone tagging along
Re0 has Rebecca and Billy
Code Veronica has Claire

Re games without female characters weren't really a thing only Re4 really stands out with Ada only being a side character.. that is until now where for whatever reason its Ethan out of all characters to get to be the mc in 2 Re game back to back when it only happened before with Chris in 5 and 6 because Re6 had multiple teams in the story. Its so crazy to me that freaking Ethan out of all characters gets 2 solo games

I have to agree with this. RE has always been pretty balanced when it comes to playable characters. They're usually on equal footing too. Barry was really the only male character in Revelations 2, you had Claire, Moira and Natalia and even the main antagonist was female.

Richter1887 · Jan 24, 2021

Aurc said:
I seriously think Claire needs to be the star of another mainline title. She was fantastic in the RE2 remake. She's got that badass angle people appreciate, but without compromising her more warm, compassionate side. Breaks my heart that we don't appear to be getting a Code Veronica remake anytime soon.

I think RE3 remake ruined Jill for me, and I already didn't care for the character even before that. She's easily the worst of the main four, imo. Just kind of your average two-dimensional "badass" action heroine. They really could've done better on the writing, imo, since lines like "My turn, bitch!" or "Bitch can't even swim" (both in reference to Nemesis, a monster she should be afraid of) just came across as cringy. I felt none of the warmth from her that I got from Leon, Claire, and Carlos.

I feel like the issue with REmake 3 isn't Jill herself. It is Nemesis himself.

He is just dumbed down so hard that her not being afraid of him is due to that. He is a straight up loser who didn't even kill one STARS member.

The amount of time you kick his ass in the original made it clear she isn't afraid of him after the first couple of times she encounters him. By the point you encounter him in the restaurant she was fully capable of taking him down with ease.

Killmonger said:
Me too, is truly the game that I'm more excited right now and I hope it succeeds, so can inspire another japanese games. We need more black people, woman not being sexualized, LGBTQ characters in general, really glad to see I'm not the only one.

I feel you.

I really hope japan starts embracing it

leng jai · Jan 24, 2021

Richter1887 said:
I feel like the issue with REmake 3 isn't Jill herself. It is Nemesis himself.

He is just dumbed down so hard that her not being afraid of him is due to that. He is a straight up loser who didn't even kill one STARS member.

The amount of time you kick his ass in the original made it clear she isn't afraid of him after the first couple of times she encounters him. By the point you encounter him in the restaurant she was fully capable of taking him down with ease.

It's hard to take Nemesis seriously in 3 when he literally could have crushed your skull 2-3 times in the first 30 minutes but for some reason doesn't.

Bishop89 · Jan 24, 2021

#bringbacksheva

Hours Left · Jan 24, 2021

SapphiCine said:
Doesn't Piers literally only exist in 6?

Uh, yeah? He was introduced in that game.

Why?

SofNascimento · Jan 24, 2021

Lord Fanny said:
Yeah, linking to your own thread doesn't mean anything to me. You were wrong then, and you're wrong now. I haven't been super thrilled with Jill's portrayal post-RE3, but tbh, I get pretty tired of you constantly pushing this take in multiple threads so I think it's pretty overdue that I put you on the ignore list.

I mention it in the threads that it's relevant. You can always simply disagree.

Richter1887 · Jan 24, 2021

leng jai said:
It's hard to take Nemesis seriously in 3 in he literally could have crushed your skull 2-3 times in the first 30 minutes but for some reason doesn't.

Yeah

There are so many times that he has her in his arms yet throws her away for reasons I can't understand.

-In the intro where he comes inside yet walks slowly instead of just ending it.
-In the flamethrower fight where he lifts her from her head yet doesn't crush her. Instead he throws her aside and slowly points the flamethrower at her.
-The bazooka fight where he for some reason stopped knowing how to shoot straight.
-The ending fight where Jill and Carlos are talking to each other for like 20 seconds while Nemesis is staring.

This barely happened in the original. He just shows up and starts attacking you from the first second. He firsts targets brad and without hesitation he jumps and kills him. If it was remake Nemesis brad would have been alive for the first half of the game.

@Umbrella You bio weapons is bad and you should feel bad.

Lord Fanny · Jan 24, 2021

SapphiCine said:
Doesn't Piers literally only exist in 6?

Yeah, he was only featured in 6 and never before or after. I also don't think there was any real implied romance between the two, but I've never really understood where people think Chris is gay, so it might be just something that goes over my head.

leng jai · Jan 24, 2021

Jill or Claire definitely should be the main characters of 9 and 10 otherwise it's just a huge waste of all the work done in the 2 remakes.

Encephalon · Jan 24, 2021

It's ridiculous that we haven't had another female main lead outside of the remakes. Wtf Capcom.

Hours Left · Jan 24, 2021

Lord Fanny said:
Yeah, he was only featured in 6 and never before or after. I also don't think there was any real implied romance between the two, but I've never really understood where people think Chris is gay, so it might be just something that goes over my head.

There definitely was. Also, if you need more proof, just look at the letter Piers sends in Revelations 2.

The cowardice of Capcom to not confirm it outright is what leads to confusion like this.

Aurc · Jan 24, 2021

SofNascimento said:
The BSAA name their guns after Wesker. I mean, Mia is probably a hero in their eyes.

Yeah... that was a weird one, to be sure.

It's actually a bit surprising that Mia was allowed to go free after the events of RE7.

She was the handler for the bioweapon that killed the Baker family, and so many others. The game treats Mia like a victim, even tries to redeem her to a point, but I wasn't buying into it at all. I think she's evil.

Richter1887 said:
I feel like the issue with REmake 3 isn't Jill herself. It is Nemesis himself.

He is just dumbed down so hard that her not being afraid of him is due to that. He is a straight up loser who didn't even kill one STARS member.

The amount of time you kick his ass in the original made it clear she isn't afraid of him after the first couple of times she encounters him. By the point you encounter him in the restaurant she was fully capable of taking him down with ease.

Yeah, that's a valid point. It's still so unfortunate how much of a chump Nemesis was, to the point where he was overshadowed by Mr. X. They did not go anywhere near as hard as they should've with him.

Lord Fanny · Jan 24, 2021

Encephalon said:
It's ridiculous that we haven't had another female main lead outside of the remakes. Wtf Capcom.

In the mainline, there was Rebecca in Zero, Claire in Code Veronica and Ada in RE6, and in the Revelations we had Jill and Claire again. So that's not entirely accurate. Though I agree there should be more with more overall focus at some point.

Hours Left said:
There definitely was. Also, if you need more proof, just look at the letter Piers sends in the remake of RE2.

The cowardice of Capcom to not confirm it outright is what leads to confusion like this.

I honestly don't remember a letter from Piers in RE2R? What is it?

SofNascimento · Jan 24, 2021

leng jai said:
It's hard to take Nemesis seriously in 3 when he literally could have crushed your skull 2-3 times in the first 30 minutes but for some reason doesn't.

REmake 3 failed Nemesis baldly, but I don't think those are the reasons. I mean, how many other villains in fiction had moments where you can think "they could have won right there!"?

Nemesis fails because two reasons: One is gameplay... he was never the stalker he was in RE3, save for very few moments. You often feel like you're running from him in the same way that you may be running from an explosion in a action aventure game setpiece, and that's not good. The other one is that he is quickly turned into a mindless beast that lacks the human-like intelligence of the original. And that should only happen at the very end of the game.

Richter1887 · Jan 24, 2021

Aurc said:
Yeah, that's a valid point. It's still so unfortunate how much of a chump Nemesis was, to the point where he was overshadowed by Mr. X. They did not go anywhere near as hard as they should've with him.

It is basically this:

When they announced that Nemesis would have an "improved" Tyrant AI I was thinking the game will feel like hell (like it should have felt). Then the game comes out and a grenade knocks him down...

Richter1887 · Jan 24, 2021

SofNascimento said:
REmake 3 failed Nemesis baldly, but I don't think those are the reasons. I mean, how many other villains in fiction had moments where you can think "they could have won right there!"?

Nemesis fails because two reasons: One is gameplay... he was never the stalker he was in RE3, save for very few moments. You often feel like you're running from him in the same way that you may be running from an explosion in a action aventure game setpiece, and that's not good. The other one is that he is quickly turned into a mindless beast that lacks the human-like intelligence of the original. And that should only happen at the very end of the game.

Remember that part in the Dead Factory when he sees through your plan of burning him with acid? I was really excited to see this in the remake. Instead we got an ugly oversized puppy on crack.

Curufinwe · Jan 24, 2021

Hours Left said:
There definitely was. Also, if you need more proof, just look at the letter Piers sends in Revelations 2.

The cowardice of Capcom to not confirm it outright is what leads to confusion like this.

That's not proof of anything, lol. Don't be so desperate.

E-Mail from Piers to Claire

E-Mail from Piers to Claire is a file in Resident Evil Revelations 2. Unlocked when the Buggin' Out (Episode Three) record is acquired. (Find all of the insect larvae in Episode Three.) Tada, Takuji, ed (2015). BIOHAZARD REVELATIONS 2 ULTIMANIA. Square Enix.

residentevil.fandom.com

Hours Left · Jan 24, 2021

Lord Fanny said:
I honestly don't remember a letter from Piers in RE2R? What is it?

Sorry I'm mixing two things up. I meant Revelations 2. He writes Claire asking for a picture of Chris when he was younger.

The letter in the remake of RE2 is the one Claire finds from Chris where he wrote to STARS about these "hot babes" he was meeting up with, which Claire comments that his letter doesn't sound like Chris. (Which is because it was a coded letter for Barry about him spying on Umbrella, but Claire didn't know that.)

SofNascimento · Jan 24, 2021

Richter1887 said:
Remember that part in the Dead Factory when he sees through your plan of burning him with acid? I was really excited to see this in the remake. Instead we got an ugly oversized puppy on crack.

The tragedy is that I think the second fight with doggy Nemesis is pretty cool. It could have worked if he had turned right before the fight, not middle way through the game.

But I think the real, biggest tragedy of Nemesis in REmake 3 is that they actually came up with some cool mechanics for him. They managed to him more lethal and threatening than Mr. X, but also giving you tools to deal with him... but then, you don't really have a chance to see something like this:

Whelp, I just realized my favorite gif of Nemesis was deleted...

NDA-Man · Jan 24, 2021

SofNascimento said:
The tragedy is that I think the second fight with doggy Nemesis is pretty cool. It could have worked if he had turned right before the fight, not middle way through the game.

But I think the real, biggest tragedy of Nemesis in REmake 3 is that they actually came up with some cool mechanics for him. They managed to him more lethal and threatening than Mr. X, but also giving you tools to deal with him... but then, you don't really have a chance to see something like this:

Whelp, I just realized my favorite gif of Nemesis was deleted...

Was it the one where he flash-steps out of the way of a rocket launcher?

Hours Left said:
Sorry I'm mixing two things up. I meant Revelations 2. He writes Claire asking for a picture of Chris when he was younger.

The letter in the remake of RE2 is the one Claire finds from Chris where he wrote to STARS about these "hot babes" he was meeting up with, which Claire comments that his letter doesn't sound like Chris. (Which is because it was a coded letter for Barry about him spying on Umbrella, but Claire didn't know that.)

Yeah, but it is an incredibly stilted letter with a lot of weird focus on details--like Claire didn't mention "He said something about hot babes! It can't be Chris!" more like "huh, this is a weird letter.".

SofNascimento · Jan 24, 2021

NDA-Man said:
Was it the one where he flash-steps out of the way of a rocket launcher?

YES!

And runned right into Jill and then the creator edited a scene with a guy scared and hitting a glass of water.

Hours Left · Jan 24, 2021

NDA-Man said:
Yeah, but it is an incredibly stilted letter with a lot of weird focus on details--like Claire didn't mention "He said something about hot babes! It can't be Chris!" more like "huh, this is a weird letter.".

In context with everything else it's pretty obvious.

Is an explanation about the harmfulness of relegating queer storylines to subtext necessary?

Richter1887 · Jan 24, 2021

SofNascimento said:
The tragedy is that I think the second fight with doggy Nemesis is pretty cool. It could have worked if he had turned right before the fight, not middle way through the game.

But I think the real, biggest tragedy of Nemesis in REmake 3 is that they actually came up with some cool mechanics for him. They managed to him more lethal and threatening than Mr. X, but also giving you tools to deal with him... but then, you don't really have a chance to see something like this:

Whelp, I just realized my favorite gif of Nemesis was deleted...

I do understand what you mean.

Like his moveset is there and his new dog form is intimidating. The dog form in particular could have worked at the end of the game after the acid bath he gets. It basically functions the same as the last form in the original.

If Nemesis could just stalk you more and in the hospital or the sewers he could have been threatning in the gameplay (though still nerfed in the story and cutscenes).

I wish Capcom would let Jill shine for once :( Every time she returns she has issues it seems. They were really close with the remake but had to screw it up in other spots so she never shined.

Capcom needs to include more women protagonists in Resident Evil sequels

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