An engine with a feature set built entirely around RT will somehow not support any RT. What am I even reading...
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Capcom: DMC5SE supports ray tracing on Series X, not on Series S
- Thread starter Phendrift
- Start date
An engine with a feature set built entirely around RT will somehow not support any RT. What am I even reading...
Obviously. My point was that if a PS5 exclusive that isn't being made for PC is made with 1 or 2 specific parts of its lighting (like reflections or shadows) using RT, then they wouldn't need to do any development or testing for those specific parts with traditional lighting methods.
Though they might need to go back and do that later if they want to do a PC port, Horizon-style.
Ok, now I understand you. Sure would be more work, but the Series S won't hold Series X or PC RT back in any way as some users suggested. They'll just turn off RT, if optimisation aren't enough and call it a day imo. We are one generation (PS6, ...) away from getting games truly build with path tracing and then it would be hard to make such changes imo. But it's not the case with the XBOX series and PS5, because almost all games will use traditional methods and on top RT, whenever possible.
No, It was on Series X. I think if they cannot run it on Series S, they're probably never release it
You are probably right, I am not very knowledgeable about those things. I was interested by the premise of a cheap next gen console which would be targeting 1080p, as I consider it to be sufficient on my 32" screen; as long as resolution was the only thing impacted. We'll see what the future brings, but I'm going to wait at least a year before making a decision.
I hope this is just a Capcom thing (considering how they've handled post-launch support of their last few big releases) and not a more widespread thing.
Count me among those that expected it different. There are dozens of us
I expected 1080p30fps with RT on the Series S.
I expected 1080p30fps with RT on the Series S.
How shocking a 4TF GPU can't do raytracing when a 6TF Nvidia GPU that also from what we know have better RT per TF compared to AMD struggles with it...
This "I thought resolution would be the only difference" crowd are either being dumb or disingenuous.
MS doesn't control how each dev develop their games. We will never know if RT in DMC5SE would be possible on Series S, only that Capcom decided to not include it. Hard to know if 99% of games would skip ray tracing on Series S or if this is an isolated case. It's not even impossible for a dev to try reaching native 4k on Series S if they want, regardless of how stupid/hard it may look like.
Assuming that the series S target audience probably doesn't care for RT for starters, maybe devs wouldn't even try to include it on the Series S version of the game, regardless of the possibility.
But that's too early to tell. This is typical forum overreaction.
MS doesn't control how each dev develop their games. We will never know if RT in DMC5SE would be possible on Series S, only that Capcom decided to not include it. Hard to know if 99% of games would skip ray tracing on Series S or if this is an isolated case. It's not even impossible for a dev to try reaching native 4k on Series S if they want, regardless of how stupid/hard it may look like.
Assuming that the series S target audience probably doesn't care for RT for starters, maybe devs wouldn't even try to include it on the Series S version of the game, regardless of the possibility.
But that's too early to tell. This is typical forum overreaction.
Pretty much. We have seen watch dogs legion running on the Series S with RT and we have this game not using it. At the end of the day it will come down to what the devs prefer.
No lies detected. The overreacting is silly, because launch always had those odd stories due to developers not being familiar with the hardware or the tools being still in development. Then there is Covid, which seems to get ignored in all of this.
Yep, it's up to the developer and we know Watch Dogs among other games offer RT on Series S.
Of course it'll support hardware RT, that's not what I said; Having support for hardware acceleration later down the line isn't the same as being designed around it. Lumen specifically appears to be an evolution of SVOGI which has been supported by CryEngine during this generation well before the RTX cards dropped.
I'm basically agreeing with the many other people in this thread arguing that the bottlenecks for games designed around having hardware accelerated RT will be the lack of proliferation of RTX cards and weaknesses in the consoles across the board, not just the S specifically.
I totally agree with that. PS5 and XSX are in a weird limbo between GPU generations because AMD is so far behind the curve. But hey, maybe the XSS is the trigger that will force rapid optimizations of RT or voxel based lighting models. It could be a giant net profit for high fps gaming during this console gen. Or it could mean studios will remain on their old pipelines and just tack on effects. We'll see.
This is about what I've been expecting when it comes to third party games. It's a bummer, but I wouldn't personally buy a Series S as an all-around machine. Hopefully first party titles don't have the same sacrifices though. I think the existing studios will be fine, but the new acquisitions will worry me until we start seeing how games like Psychonauts 2, etc... run on Series S.
Checkerboarded from what resolution? 1080p was likely the only way Capcom could guarantee a solid 120fps in all game modes.
I own an RTX 2080. I can't hold a rock solid 120fps at 1440p.
It baffles me, how unrealistic some of you are about the power of these consoles.
Here is a opposite example.
Ubisoft On the Next Generation of Consoles – Get the Details
Ubisoft On the Next Generation of Consoles – Get the Details
news.ubisoft.com
Checkerboard would use exactly half the pixels, so that's a little more than 1440p. And no, the X1X version doesn't do rock-solid 60fps - gameplay sees occasional dips to the low 50s, and cutscenes are much lower, more in the 40s. The thing is though, that seems to have been fine with most people. Given the choice, I would prefer checkerboard 4K, even if gameplay was around 100-120fps and cutscenes dropped into the 80s. With a VRR TV and double the average number of frames, that approach would work even better than it did before.
I'm not being unrealistic, I'm just not demanding a perfect 120fps at all times. You're probably right that 1080p was needed to hold it flawlessly, but that's a big drop in image quality for a questionable return in performance - the checkerboard 4K in DMC5 was literally mistaken for native 4K initially by Digital Foundry.
I think Capcom might have been able to do 1080p at 30 fps with ray tracing. But now you're cutting into both image quality and performance and it just wasn't worth it.
DMC5 is also a high performance game. And putting in ray tracing might have dropped frames to sub 30 fps.
Ubisoft...as their track record shows, doesn't give a shit about frame rate targets on consoles which is why I'm sure they put ray tracing in for Watch Dog Legions on the Series S.
I don't think that's ever possible with how demanding RT is
Pretty much, people don't realize that they're paying $499 console.
Yep I expect drops on WD Legions
It is, pretty much why I expected no more than 30 fps. Maybe with dynamic res.
I guess we'll need to wait to see how it compares to other hardware in this regard. Series S is supposedly capable of RT
It technically can but it might be sub 30 which isn't good for a next gen console especially for marketing. I expect S to get worse or not much optimized as next gen progresses. It's just not a good investment if you're looking for next gen experience
This is something we really don't know anyway, can't know for sure. Series X and PS5 are absolute beasts, but also because they aim at 4K native resolutions, which are way more expensive than what the Series S aims for. I'm not saying that it's impossible that what you say is true, it is a possibility, but it may end being like the One S this year.
I think effects that scale at a fraction of base rendering resolution (like RT and some alpha effects) may end up looking rough as a result, but I would find it fascinating if the lower target resolution for the Series S ends up giving it slightly more stable performance where other games are GPU-limited.
I'm not sure I understand. Series S is the most GPU limited of the three consoles.
Oh definitely, but rendering with a ~1080p-1440p target would only need 1/4 to 1/3 the pixel output, if the other versions are going for 4K. Just based on my experience on PC, 4K tends to hit more pipeline snags than lower resolutions, even on otherwise capable hardware. I wouldn't expect meaningful differences, just potentially something to notice due to how rendering scales w/ res.
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I think Capcom could have done it at 30 fps at 1080p with some drops but people would find that unacceptable.
Also COVID could have affected dev time needed for a series S optimization.
Also COVID could have affected dev time needed for a series S optimization.
