Can't we all finally agree that the PC Gaming Market doesn't threaten the Console market?

[OnionPowder]

Consumers paid money for Xbox Live for dedicated online servers for games. You didn't need to pay for Xbox Live to download dlc.
They changed it over time but at the start that's how they did it.

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Did we use the same xbox live? Microsoft did not run dedicated servers for games. They didn't even offer that until the Xbox One

If a game on the 360 had dedicated servers it was on the developers to run and maintain the servers. Halo 2, 3, Reach and 4 all didn't have dedicated servers and were all strictly P2P for all modes, so they weren't even offering it for their own first party titles let alone host them for 3rd party devs.

 

[mikeys_legendary]

You're always going to have people who just prefer to open up a box, plug their device into a TV and just play. They don't want to worry about what their specs are, they just want to use what they bought. This tends to be the console folks.

You're always going to have people that want to squeeze every ounce of performance out of their device that they can by pushing it to the limit, buying new parts or installing software that lets them customize their experience.

PC doesn't threaten consoles and consoles don't threaten the PC market. It's kind of like iOS vs Android. Users are looking for two different experiences and there are options available to them offering just that.

 

[SnazzyNaz]

Consumers paid money for Xbox Live for dedicated online servers for games.

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Dedicated servers were a rarity. P2P, player-hosted matchmaking was the bulk of the 7th gen online experience.

 

[Oghuz]

Yeah, I think the people who buy a console just for the exclusives (as opposed to a PC, not another console) are in the minority. Most people buy consoles because they just want to enjoy games without thinking about anything else, aka casual gaming. You know, the people that buy the COD"s Fifa's and whatever else mainstream games you got.For the majority exclusives only influence the choice for a certain console you want to buy. PC gamers who buy consoles for exclusives are definitely in the minority.

So yeah, you could say that PC isn't much of a threat to consoles. The only question is: how big is the minority that buys consoles just for exclusives in addition to already having a PC? Forget Microsoft, can Sony afford to lose them? I wish we could've had the numbers for this.

 

[JimmyNeedles-TS]

Not yet... but with the new Xbox Series X and some rumours going around regarding modular components, thinks could get close!

 

[Deleted member 40102]

I definitely don't agree. I know a lot of people on twitch/close friends family moved to pc and never came back to console again.

 

[Deleted member 35071]

The hassle, if you're not already familiar with PC hardware, would be considerable to pick every part and get it setup, yes no doubt.

The cost though - for a system that would play the same games at equivalent res/settings if you're comparing X-enhanced titles? Around $750, that's for playing games at the same res/settings and performance if you're targetting ~4k at the same fps as the X.

You would still have the option though for pretty much all games to play them at 1080/1440p at 60fps, which is not a choice in every x-enhanced game, by far - and of course no comparison for games that weren't given X-enhanced patches. Going up to $900 and you could equip it with a 5700XT, for a system which absolutely dusts the X.

So yes, definitely more expensive and definitely more hassle, but the cost really isn't that stratospheric if you go DIY. I will say though that the X/Pro seem to have large discounts far, far more often in the US than Canada - $349 now for the X/Jedi Order bundle on Newegg.com is a hell of a deal. That's currently $650 cad right now (edit: just newegg, BestBuy has it for $450).

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is HDR a thing in PC gaming?? whenever i pay attention to pc gaming...it doesn't seem to be talked bout as much. The talk seems to more be ppl playing 1440p games at 60-120fps no hdr

 

[Jaxar]

I think there will always be a place for both.

 

[OnionPowder]

is HDR a thing in PC gaming?? whenever i pay attention to pc gaming...it doesn't seem to be talked bout as much. The talk seems to more be ppl playing 1440p games at 60-120fps no hdr

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HDR on PC from what I've heard is dookie.

Something about how Microsoft implemented it. HDR monitors are becoming more common though so maybe it's had improvements. I've never tried to set it up.

 

[SnazzyNaz]

is HDR a thing in PC gaming?? whenever i pay attention to pc gaming...it doesn't seem to be talked bout as much. The talk seems to more be ppl playing 1440p games at 60-120fps no hdr

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Yup.

List of games that support high dynamic range display (HDR) - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

 

[Conkerkid11]

Consumers paid money for Xbox Live for dedicated online servers for games. You didn't need to pay for Xbox Live to download dlc.
They changed it over time but at the start that's how they did it.

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lol, what games were using dedicated servers?

Don't try to justify console sub fees. They're there because console gamers are willing to pay for them and have no other choice.

HDR on PC from what I've heard is dookie.

Something about how Microsoft implemented it. HDR monitors are becoming more common though so maybe it's had improvements. I've never tried to set it up.

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I mean... What was the last console game that actually had good HDR? Every single game I've bought for my Xbox One X has had terrible HDR.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Did we use the same xbox live? Microsoft did not run dedicated servers for games. They didn't even offer that until the Xbox One

If a game on the 360 had dedicated servers it was on the developers to run and maintain the servers. Halo 2, 3, Reach and 4 all didn't have dedicated servers and were all strictly P2P for all modes, so they weren't even offering it for their own first party titles let alone host them for 3rd party devs.

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Lol. People don`t even know how their console gaming works and what they are paying for, and then they want to talk about how pc gaming is.

 

[OnionPowder]

lol, what games were using dedicated servers?

Don't try to justify console sub fees. They're there because console gamers are willing to pay for them and have no other choice.


I mean... What was the last console game that actually had good HDR? Every single game I've bought for my Xbox One X has had terrible HDR.

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I don't know. I don't use HDR as I mainly play on PC and my monitor doesn't have HDR. I've just heard that it isn't great on PC.

I did try HDR on Monster Hunter on PS4 and it looked like shit so I just stopped caring about HDR for now.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

is HDR a thing in PC gaming?? whenever i pay attention to pc gaming...it doesn't seem to be talked bout as much. The talk seems to more be ppl playing 1440p games at 60-120fps no hdr

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It can be a bit of a hassle - some games require you to turn on HDR in Windows settings which you'll have to turn off when you're done with the game as it makes your desktop look like crap. Other more sensible games just have the toggle in-game. I don't think it's as ubiquitous as console games though, there are definitely some console ports that have HDR while the PC version doesn't. Of course HDR implementations in games, PC or console, vary wildly. I rarely use it on my PS4 titles as my TV's implementation isn't that great.

List of PC games with HDR

 

[Deleted member 35071]

i have only known 2 types of PC gamers in my 30+ years of gaming.
super nerdy dudes who pretty much never played consoles growing up...and were either into strategy games or shooters. And who now only play like world of warcraft, some russian looking war shooters or Civilization or tropico.

and hot chicks that play league of legends.

ive yet to really see anything other than this so far

 

[Deleted member 13560]

I just played RE2 on PC with HDR. While HDR is nice, it doesn't come close to how nice 120+ FPS feels on that game. HDR is just a nice little bonus.

 

[aevanhoe]

This makes zero sense when all of your listed games were huge money makers on their own.

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It makes perfect sense when you realize these huge money makers are just a part of the combined profit. Do you think Sony earned more from God of War or from getting 30% cut from every transaction ever made on their store. 30% of every Call of Duty, every Fifa, every Fortnite purchase, every Destiny, etc.

They earn most of the money that way. They would lose a lot of money if they said "you know what - we could also sell games on PC, wht not?". This is why they will never do it. Otherwise - they would have been selling their games on PC for a while now. You don't actually think they are avoiding other platforms because they are fanboys or somethinng? :) They avoid it because this strategy brings them money.

 

[aevanhoe]

I just played RE2 on PC with HDR. While HDR is nice, it doesn't come close to how nice 120+ FPS feels on that game. HDR is just a nice little bonus.

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Depends on the TV. Having played both a PC version and the console version on my OLED, I'd say the difference is quite more than "just a nice little bonus". I'd take it over 120 fps personally, especially on a game like this where atmosphere is everything and twitch gameplay not so much.

 

[tuxfool]

i have only known 2 types of PC gamers in my 30+ years of gaming.
super nerdy dudes who pretty much never played consoles growing up...and were either into strategy games or shooters. And who now only play like world of warcraft, some russian looking war shooters or Civilization or tropico.

and hot chicks that play league of legends.

ive yet to really see anything other than this so far

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Uhuh.

And what is the point of this post? The only reason this would be worth mentioning if the implication was that "I've never seen otherwise, therefore it must not exist".

Get out more.

 

[shinobi602]

You definitely don't need a $1000 PC to match or overcome the difference in quality from consoles tbh and i also disagree that PC represents the high end segment to consoles.

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I have a pretty good PC with an RTX 2070, but even I can see that that's just not the case. The Xbox One X can be had for $350 or less nowadays. Hell I saw a deal going for $279.99 just recently. I'm sorry but it's just not possible to build a PC from scratch with comparable specs for that money.

 

[Trice]

PC+game pass and PS5 is all I need. I see no use for an Xbox in that equation.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony opened up a PC storefront for their older exclusives during the next decade. It would sell like hotcakes

 

[Omnistalgic]

To play devil's advocate, the price difference starts to disappear when you compare a good PC to the price of an Xbox + PlayStation. Depending on how much you spend, you can get similar (or better) performance, you get almost every Xbox game (since MS is putting their own 1st party & 2nd party games on the PC) and the vast majority of PS games (since even most Japanese 3rd party games these days are multi-platform) plus a ton of PC-only exclusives, you can get Game Pass (albeit with a different lineup), and a PC can be used for work and other purposes.

As someone who has a good excuse to have a good PC for work, I'm feeling less and less like I have a reason to own any of the game consoles except for the Switch (thanks to portability + Nintendo's strong 1st party lineup) since there are fewer and fewer exclusives on the MS & PS platforms and I'd rather play on my laptop than a TV anyway.

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this generation some of the most talked about games, critical darlings and just overall drivers of Ps hardware have been PS exclusives.

couldn't disagree more here man, Sony made it really appealing to own a PS this gen. And stuff like Persona 5 often take years to come to PC and you miss the discussion/community around it playing a late port.

to the OP point though PC is awesome and if anything compliments consoles.

 

[tuxfool]

Oops.

 

[AshenOne]

I have a pretty good PC with an RTX 2070, but even I can see that that's just not the case. The Xbox One X can be had for $350 or less nowadays. Hell I saw a deal going for $279.99 just recently. I'm sorry but it's just not possible to build a PC from scratch with comparable specs for that money.

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The argument was that one cannot build a PC thats under $1000 to compete with Xbox series X apparently while i previously thought that he meant Xbox One X and not a PC under $350 like you're assuming btw.

 

[Tangyn]

Seems like after 10 the pages the answer is......................................................

I guess not

 

[shinobi602]

The argument was that one cannot build PC thats under $1000 to compete with xbox series X apparently while i previously thought that he meant Xbox One X and not under $350 like you're assuming btw.

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I understand, but one of OP's main points is the value in terms of price when it comes to gaming for many people, and hence why PC gaming isn't going to suddenly make consoles go away. That audience is still huge. Which is great for everybody honestly.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I just played RE2 on PC with HDR. While HDR is nice, it doesn't come close to how nice 120+ FPS feels on that game. HDR is just a nice little bonus.

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Yeah I just picked that up and it's one of the few games that looks far better with HDR even on my set's limited capabilities. Doesn't require Windows HDR to be enabled as well, def one of the better implementations.

 

[z1ggy]

I understand, but one of OP's main points is the value in terms of price when it comes to gaming for many people, and hence why PC gaming isn't going to suddenly make consoles go away. That audience is still huge. Which is great for everybody honestly.

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Upfront cost sure. But thats it.

 

[OnionPowder]

I understand, but one of OP's main points is the value in terms of price when it comes to gaming for many people, and hence why PC gaming isn't going to suddenly make consoles go away. That audience is still huge. Which is great for everybody honestly.

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Yeah i'm even considering buying an Xbox Series X even with my PC because it looks like something the family would have fun with in the living room with our gamepass sub.

 

[AshenOne]

I understand, but one of OP's main points is the value in terms of price when it comes to gaming for many people, and hence why PC gaming isn't going to suddenly make consoles go away. That audience is still huge. Which is great for everybody honestly.

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Yes that will always be there. I've never argued upon this very point. I've never said or argued that PC will or will not make consoles go away but just that PC and Console crowd both have different aims and goals and don't overlap as much as some of the people in this thread think and make out PC as a threat to consoles big time. PC have always had and will always have big time customizability and user choice prioritized while consoles offer convenience but with paywalls.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Yeah i'm even considering buying an Xbox Series X even with my PC because it looks like something the family would have fun with in the living room with our gamepass sub.

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Yeah the game subscriptions, especially those that MS offers where there are versions that are cross-platform, make owning both a console and PC much more viable IMO. Even with the PS4, despite not playing it much I still renew my PSPlus subscription every year, largely just for the free games and the additional discounts on titles when they go on sale. I have a pretty large backlog that's waiting for the PS5 if/when I get it due just to this.

 

[shinobi602]

Yes that will always be there. I've never argued upon this very point. I've never said or argued that PC will or will not make consoles go away but just that PC and Console crowd both have different aims and goals and don't overlap as much as some of the people in this thread think and make out PC as a threat to consoles big time.

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Fair enough! I think our wires got crossed a bit. You'd mentioned building a PC under a grand which outperforms the X, which, sure that's definitely possible. But I think my main point was even if you got a PC built from scratch with specs comparable to the X, it still wouldn't come close to $350 or less. And the price:performance ratio is why many players gravitate towards consoles. There's a lot of bang for your buck there. I think we're on the same page anyway.

 

[leng jai]

If you just play at the same settings as console then what's the point lol

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Yeah because that's the only reason to play on PC lol

 

[werezompire]

this generation some of the most talked about games, critical darlings and just overall drivers of Ps hardware have been PS exclusives.

couldn't disagree more here man, Sony made it really appealing to own a PS this gen. And stuff like Persona 5 often take years to come to PC and you miss the discussion/community around it playing a late port.

to the OP point though PC is awesome and if anything compliments consoles.

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That's why I said "vast majority" of PS4 games and not all PS4 games. I pretty much only use my PS4 for DVDs, Persona 5, and the occasional Sony exclusive that interests me. Just about everything else is available on the Switch and/or PC, both platforms I'd rather play games on.

I will say that Atlus deciding that Persona 6 is exclusive to Sony would be the easiest way to make me want a PS5 besides extreme BC.

 

[AmFreak]

It makes perfect sense when you realize these huge money makers are just a part of the combined profit. Do you think Sony earned more from God of War or from getting 30% cut from every transaction ever made on their store. 30% of every Call of Duty, every Fifa, every Fortnite purchase, every Destiny, etc.

They earn most of the money that way. They would lose a lot of money if they said "you know what - we could also sell games on PC, wht not?". This is why they will never do it. Otherwise - they would have been selling their games on PC for a while now. You don't actually think they are avoiding other platforms because they are fanboys or somethinng? :) They avoid it because this strategy brings them money.

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You said these games only exists because of exclusivity and that's all i argued against.
Fact is all these games are huge sellers bringing far more money in than what they cost, there is simply no reason to stop making these games if Nintendo or Sony tomorrow would go 3rd party.
If going 3rd party would benefit them overall is a completely different subject/question.

 

[AmFreak]

Fair enough! I think our wires got crossed a bit. You'd mentioned building a PC under a grand which outperforms the X, which, sure that's definitely possible. But I think my main point was even if you got a PC built from scratch with specs comparable to the X, it still wouldn't come close to $350 or less. And the price:performance ratio is why many players gravitate towards consoles. There's a lot of bang for your buck there. I think we're on the same page anyway.

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The price/performance ratio for the OG One was absolutely awful. The PS4 could be outmatched with 400-500€ components, same is true for both mid-gen consoles.
The moment you add Live/+ over a gen the price/performance argument is over anyways.

 

[Nzyme32]

Console needs PC to exist
PC needs console to exist

Users are both unique and not
User desires and intentions from both console and PC, as well as audience mechanics, purchasing habits, marketplace and experimentation are widely different in each

 

[aevanhoe]

You said these games only exists because of exclusivity and that's all i argued against.
Fact is all these games are huge sellers bringing far more money in than what they cost, there is simply no reason to stop making these games if Nintendo or Sony tomorrow would go 3rd party.
If going 3rd party would benefit them overall is a completely different subject/question.

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I said they mainly exist because of exclusivity and if it weren't for that business model, this type of extra-premium, insane polished games probably wouldn't exist - and Sony would be just another big publisher making games like EA or Ubisoft. We would have God of War 11 by now and it would have microtransactions.

You have to understand, it's not how much the game sells, it's how much money it brings each quarter and how much value it brings to shareholders. These megacompanies work on a whole different level. It's either exclusivity (that brings huge profits indirectly by getting people on the platform) - or a new game from a popular franchise each year with map packs, cosmetics and "timesavers".

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

Delivered 4k60 for all games on it's library, that is also bigger than the pc library? sure

A billion problems? sure.

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Dude, too much Master race shit? I am talking about convenience, your petty fanboyism is unnecessary. I'm sorry to have sullied your holy PC platform by sharing problems that I had.

 

[psilocybe]

Two important questions:

How many people, who currently buys both exclusives and 3rd party games on consoles, would ditch consoles 100% ando go all PC.

And:
2. How much more would publishers earn with the extra sales from PC?

I would expect that the number from question 1 to be low. As OP pointed out, consoles are practical and have good cost/benefit. Most would keep their consoles. Even in this forum people still keep saying outdated things like "comfy couch", image then the non-enthusiast market.

 

[Moebius]

It's cheaper and easier to get 4k hdr with consoles than it is on pc right now. HDR on pc can still be troublesome. It's not great, not terrible.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Sony exclusives on PC wouldn't kill consoles, it would kill these awesome exclusives.

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What metric is this based on? You understand the reason why consoles even exist is because of convenience, no? Having the games be available on PC does not, in the long run, prevent growth of the Sony ecosystem, because PCs will ALWAYS have a barrier of entry that includes but is not limited to

• Perceived complexity of building a computer
• Perceived complexity of owning a computer
• CONVENIANCE

Let's be honest here. Building a gaming PC is easy assuming you know what you need and just look up a YouTube video. Owning a computer can be pretty simple too. But building it takes time, and troubleshooting issues you face also takes time. You also have to choose which platform you own the majority of games on, install that platform, set it up, and hope that shit don't break for you because of your particular configuration.

Consoles are - you buy it, you plug it in, you pay for game, play it. thats it.

The reason why PS4 Pro exists is to lure people in who are thinking of getting a PC for 4k gaming and say "hey, for $500 you can get this cheap and convenient almost 4k option"

At best, it would be a Sony owned game store, but even then this would not be a win for Sony unless they could magically block you from buying all other games on Steam.

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There are game stores that exist with games that aren't on Steam that plenty of people buy from. I don't get the point here.

 

[Ripcord]

I don't think the markets threaten one another. I always thought console gaming fed PC gaming a lot of the time. Kinda like phone games feeding consoles, or the gamer distinction of casual v. hardcore. Throughout the years I've seen a ton of console gamers upgrade or graduate to PC gaming because they wanted to go deeper into the hobby.

I figure there will always be a market for the people who are kinda into it and the people who are really into it.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

No issues with 4k60 HDR + 7.1 sound here. No fiddling required. Can't imagine what the issue was.

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And that's the thing about computers! They are complicated! When they aren't locked down like a console is, they can have a plethora of issues that in some cases require extensive troubleshooting and the root cause could range from anything like a cable to the operating system!

Disclaimer: I'm not platform warring, just making a point that PCs can have some really troublesome issues. It will always be a mileage may vary scenario with them, and if you're not interested in that, consoles provide end-users with a more stable experience.

 

[z1ggy]

ITT people talk like if PC gaming has issues all the time and you build a machine every night you come home

 

[Tortahegesztő]

I mean the success of the Switch alone demonstrates well enough that convenience trumps everything for the majority of people.
Tough it's equally silly when they say *insert upcoming console name here* will kill PC gaming. It never will, because a sizable group of people will always want to make their own compromises rather than leaving it up to the developers.

 

[z1ggy]

for the majority of people.

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Then why you have hundred of million of people playing with their PCs?

 

[rodrigolfp]

Dude, too much Master race shit? I am talking about convenience, your petty fanboyism is unnecessary. I'm sorry to have sullied your holy PC platform by sharing problems that I had.

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When run out of arguments comes the "master race" bullshit. I am waiting for the other 999.999.999 problems on the pc that is not even yours vs the zero problems with console gaming.

 

[JudgmentJay]

ITT people talk like if PC gaming has issues all the time and you build a machine every night you come home

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It's pretty amazing, but it's the status quo for a PC thread on ResetEra. Beyond the initial build I spend almost no time on maintenance. A GPU driver install a few times a year, a few minutes setting up a mod or two if a game calls for it... that kind of stuff. Also worth pointing out that I've had more crashes on consoles this generation than on PC, and consoles make up a small fraction of my overall playtime.

I just can't relate to all these people who claim that PC gaming is a huge hassle. It's just as convenient as consoles in my experience. After the initial build of course. That does take some effort.

 

[Csr]

I agree with the title but disagree on most of the arguments.

How can you say pc is representing the high end when the vast majority of pc gamers don't have a high end rig? We can see the stats on steam.

Benchmarks from Digital Foundry and others have also shown that with similar gpus you get similar performance as with consoles but they have low end cpus, we will see how better cpus in consoles changes the situation next gen.

I agree on the convenience part and i think this is on of the big reasons why the two platforms have different audiences, the gap has gotten smaller but consoles are still ahead there and the console audience just want as less hassle as possible.
The price is the other big reason and is still in favor of consoles for the upfront cost but the difference is exaggerated in the thread. Still people see the cost of a console and the cost of a pc and they choose console.