Can't we all finally agree that the PC Gaming Market doesn't threaten the Console market?

[Strings]

I think the thread title and content are sorta two different things. I can agree with the title, but don't see how the body really follows through, at least from a personal perspective.

I bought a 360 because of all the rad games that I wanted (Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Tales of Vesperia), and then some other stuff over the years because I had the console lying around and felt guilty about not using it. If those had been on another console or PC, I absolutely would not have bought the system, and those purchases wouldn't have happened.

Microsoft never built up enough exclusives to convince me to buy an Xbox One (I would have caved with just two). The two games they've sold me this generation both released on PC (Ori and Cuphead), so I just bought those two there and didn't bother with a system and whatever else eventually because I felt bad about not using the console. Similarly, they'll never reach a dam-bursting moment with the Series X where I have to buy their system and a couple of games I'm not super jazzed about out of obligation - they'll just sell me the games I want with a cut going to a vendor that isn't them.

So... They'll absolutely make less money from me. Where they'll make more money is the PC folks who never, ever would have bought an Xbox but are interested in a couple of the games. It just depends on where the math ends up there (less people spending more vs more people spending less).

What your body is really about, Xbox games being available on PC meaning nothing to console-only gamers, is self-evident, but nothing has changed there.

 

[Reckheim]

Who was even saying that? If anything its great for MS and will keep them in the game longer; they'll just end up selling less of their own proprietary consoles; which by all accounts they don't care about as much as subscription services and selling software.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

Xbox One X still has a relatively weak CPU though.

Check out this video when you have time. Its a $500 RTX PC that outputs better quality than an Xbox One X



Ofcourse you can add a bit more stuff into it to make it more reliable for the long term and not be a $1000 PC still.

If one has knowledge on how to build PC then you can definitely get more performance under $1000 that outperforms Xbox One X in quality and performance.



That player number was PROBABLY concurrent players and not the total number of players playing a game. It would be better if you could provide a source on that.

Click to shrink...

XSX != Xbox One X.

 

[Linus815]

Yes, you do. Good luck building a PC for under 1000$ that has the same specs as the XSX and that runs games in the same way on PC. Consoles are sold at a loss, PCs aren't. When you develop for consoles, you know exactly what you're targeting, so you can optimize the hell out of that machine, which isn't what's happening for PC games. On PCs, you just deal with a ton of overhead and you're throwing insane amounts of power at it to overcome that. All PC games could run a hell of a lot better on the given hardware if the games would actually be specifically made for that hardware. So even if your PC is on paper better than a console, in practice that often won't result in you having a comparable experience. And again, most people don't wanna deal with that shit.

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The XSX is a year away. And no one knows anything about its exact specs or price. A $1000 PC could easily exceed the XBX when that released, especially given the tablet tier cpu they are equipped with. And frankly, the "consoles are much better optimized, so they run faster than PC's with equal spec" arguement is getting rather tiring. There is some truth to it, but the difference is not that dramatic anymore. And that's completely disregarding the fact that with PC's you get the choice of going for 60 fps instead of higher resolution and 30 fps, something that majority of consolee titles currently can't support, due to the weak CPU's, even though the X gpu equavilent on PC (RX580) can do 60 fps in practically any game at 1080p, including RDR 2.

I was surprised last time when I saw in a thread people saying a game sold well on Steam because it had 42000 players. I mean, isn't that kinda low when a lot of console games are in the millions? When I see numbers like that I tend to think PC is a niche market compared to consoles. So, no, I don't think PC is a threat to consoles. Maybe on enthusiasts forum like here people says they don't need a console if the exclusives are on PC, but I think the vast majority of people who buy consoles will continue to buy consoles no matter what.

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You realize that people were most likely talking about concurrent player numbers, right?

 

[LewieP]

I was surprised last time when I saw in a thread people saying a game sold well on Steam because it had 42000 players. I mean, isn't that kinda low when a lot of console games are in the millions? When I see numbers like that I tend to think PC is a niche market compared to consoles. So, no, I don't think PC is a threat to consoles. Maybe on enthusiasts forum like here people says they don't need a console if the exclusives are on PC, but I think the vast majority of people who buy consoles will continue to buy consoles no matter what.

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Perhaps that was *concurrent* players, as in not the total sales, but the number of players playing at once. Realistically, the actual sales will be an order of magnitude larger. Also in general PC games tend to have a much longer tail than console games. Whereas (with some obvious exceptions) game sales are extremely front loaded on consoles, on PC a game that sells decently early on will likely go on to continue selling decently for quite some time on PC.

 

[Linus815]

XSX != Xbox One X.

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Yes, which is why original post was weird . Making arguements about how an XSX will outperform PC's or how much cheaper it will be when it's still a year away is pointless.

 

[Elephant]

PC is the most popular it's ever been, but it can't compete with consoles for the living room/bedroom comfort and as a family entertainment system. It also can't compete with the plug and play convenience.

When having these discussions PC players really need to switch off the thought process that just because they have the superior system in terms of power and customisation, that doesn't mean that it wins a popularity contest with the general public and frankly never will.

Just take a little step outside of your echo chamber for a bit of clarity. Gaming enthusiasts like us, who visit this forum and those like it, are a tiny percentage of people who play games worldwide.

Little Susie wants a Switch for Christmas.
Little Billy wants a PS4 for Fortnite.
Bob wants a Xbox to play COD with his mates after work.

These are the majority.

 

[Deleted member 29249]

Stadia shows the technology is there, but competing with companies that own many gaming studios is an uphill battle so not likely to be a real threat for a long time.

Seeing how PC's came easy before consoles shouldn't the title be reversed : p

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most casuals don't care if they can play every game, so missing the 1st party titles might not mean much. If they get there CoDs and Feetballs I'm sure that will be more then enough. Destiny 2 is on stadia and that's really all I play most of the time. Again gonna take time for these types of services to work for the normal users but I can see it happening in a few year, via stadia, xcloud or maybe what ever amazon is going to do.

 

[LewieP]

PC is the most popular it's ever been, but it can't compete with consoles for the living room/bedroom comfort and as a family entertainment system. It also can't compete with the plug and play convenience.

When having these discussions PC players really need to switch off the thought process that just because they have the superior system in terms of power and customisation, that doesn't mean that it wins a popularity contest with the general public and frankly never will.

Just take a little step outside of your echo chamber for a bit of clarity. Gaming enthusiasts like us, who visit this forum and those like it, are a tiny percentage of people who play games worldwide.

Little Susie wants a Switch for Christmas.
Little Billy wants a PS4 for Fortnite.
Bob wants a Xbox to play COD with his mates after work.

These are the majority.

Click to shrink...

There are advantages and disadvantages to each.

But a larger portion of games that are available on consoles also being available on PC, compared to the past, is an additional advantage to PC gaming where in the past (many games staying on consoles) was a disadvantage.

I don't think anyone could credibly argue that PC gaming will consume console gaming until there is nothing else left, but that doesn't mean that the balance can't shift in PC gaming's favour.

 

[Spark]

I was surprised last time when I saw in a thread people saying a game sold well on Steam because it had 42000 players. I mean, isn't that kinda low when a lot of console games are in the millions? When I see numbers like that I tend to think PC is a niche market compared to consoles. So, no, I don't think PC is a threat to consoles. Maybe on enthusiasts forum like here people says they don't need a console if the exclusives are on PC, but I think the vast majority of people who buy consoles will continue to buy consoles no matter what.

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Two things to consider. That was concurrent players numbers. Sales estimates are as high as 2M on Steam alone, nevermind PC Gamepass, for a port of a 9 year old game. Those are great results regardless of platform.

And there are lots of games with millions of concurrent players on PC, like LoL, WoW, PUBG, DOTA 2.

 

[AshenOne]

XSX != Xbox One X.

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Oh then I don't see the purpose of this thread if you're using Xbox Series X as a vital part of the argument here. We don't even know its confirmed specs lol. Also iam absolutely sure you can get a better performance at a cheaper rate even for Series X when it arrives. Its been done in the last gen with base and Pro, X versions. You cannot dismiss a cheaper option until we get the actual thing release in the first place.

 

[Kaim Argonar]

As a Tier 3 PC gaming fan I feel that a lot of PC gaming is on the low/medium, not high, end.

A PC that can play modern games isn't that expensive.

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You really liked the "tier 3 fan" from that disney thread didn't you.

I did.

 

[Sikamikanico]

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

Personally, I love being able to flit between a high-end PC experience and then the convenience of console. And certainly with Xbox, the majority of my games go with me.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

I'm not quite sure if I follow and understand the premise of your argument. Right now it feels like an strawman argument.

Yes, there are people saying they don't need an Xbox because they have a PC. But why is that... I don't know, worrying, or "wrong"? They don't say that an Xbox (or consoles in general) is a needless tech that shouldn't exist. No one says this. It's just that IF I have a beefy PC the statement is very true to these users.

And if it's about convenience, we genuinely had those discussion plenty of time within in the last few months. It's well-known that consoles are more convenient than a PC in some if not most regards but PC is catching up for the last few years and is still. It will probably never reach the same convenience due to it's nature and because consoles are specifically build for gaming on hardware AND software level while on PC you'll always have the Windows/software component that offers much much more options and with it a bit more fiddling. But again, this is no news and I'm not sure what exactly favors a re-evaluation of these arguments and discussions since I don't see anything new.

And to address your last paragraph I also think the PC crowd is the last who says games should only exist on PC or shouldn't be available anywhere else. Because PC is all about options and choice and its very spirit.

 

[Kalentan]

I feel this was maybe true awhile ago but more and more they're becoming in direct competition. While ERA is an enthusiast forum and not speaking for the majority of people, there is clearly evidence of people moving away from consoles if Exclusives start to become multi-platform.

Hell, If Halo had stayed Xbox only I would have bought the next Xbox but now that it's on PC, I''ll just play it there.

 

[NediarPT88]

I'd love if Sony and Nintendo exclusives were on PC.

I can understand why Microsoft put their games on PC looking at their business model right now. Question is should Sony and Nintendo do it too? Can they make more money that way (overall with their "ecosystem", not just talking software sales)? I don't know about that. I think there's definitely some competition there, though I agree it's not a "threat" as in the end of console gaming.

 

[Elephant]

There are advantages and disadvantages to each.

But a larger portion of games that are available on consoles also being available on PC, compared to the past, is an additional advantage to PC gaming where in the past (many games staying on consoles) was a disadvantage.

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Sure, which might be enough for people on here, and the alike, to make the investment. As I said PC gaming has never been more popular and will continue to grow. But as the title says, it's not a threat to the console business at all because the general public couldn't care less about PC gaming.

 

[Decarb]

As someone who bought a new Xbox at launch every time because of either Forza or Halo, I won't be doing that this time since hopefully I would've upgraded my PC by then.

 

[Duxxy3]

Normally I do both, but this generation was just bad. I was still using my PS3 up until 2015 as my main machine because there wasn't much on the new consoles. By the time they did get their shit together, the games were often sub native resolution and still ran poorly.

I'm hopeful that the next gen beast consoles will turn things around for me, because I'd really rather just use my PC for other things.

 

[Cordelia]

I wonder why all these people think that PC can only be used for gaming and only for enthusiast.

PC Gaming doesn't represents the high end alternative to consoles. Heck I believe that most PC gamer only play on underpowered school or work laptop.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

• A don't need a 1.000$ PC to match console gaming
• PC gaming isn't solely high end. I'd argue it's even more low-end in many cases than PS4/X1. Just look at all the games you can play on ancient PCs. And look how most of the biggest PC games look graphically - they aren't high end at all.
• All Microsoft games on PC Day 1 will eat away hardware sales. There is no doubt about that IMHO. So in a way, yes, it does harm the console. And I would harm Switch and PS4 sales if everything was available Day 1 on PC.

I am saying all this as a PC gamer and I would be glad if everything was on PC Day 1 in the future. And yes, I would just play everything on PC and not buy another console.

 

[rodrigolfp]

If there are people buying multiplatform games only on PC, than it is a direct competitor. Simple as that.

 

[LewieP]

I'd love if Sony and Nintendo exclusives were on PC.

I can understand why Microsoft put their games on PC looking at their business model right now. Question is should Sony and Nintendo do it too? Can they make more money that way (overall with their "ecosystem", not just talking software sales)? I don't know about that. I think there's definitely some competition there, though I agree it's not a "threat" as in the end of console gaming.

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Oh yeah, Nintendo especially. I love their games very much so, but I find their hardware to be kind of hit and miss. Not that their hardware is badly designed, but it is usually built to compromise between various different factors (price, simplicity, portability) that would not be a factor if they released games on PC.

Can't see it ever happening though.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Tell Sony that. I'd love to be able to play their games at a proper framerate.

I'd say the same for Nintendo. But emulators.

 

[Reckheim]

I wonder why all these people think that PC can only be used for gaming and only for enthusiast.

PC Gaming doesn't represents the high end alternative to consoles. Heck I believe that most PC gamer only play on underpowered school or work laptop.

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Hell most people still play on 1080p displays and have no clue about high refresh rates. To them a pc with a 1070 will last long into next generation.

 

[LewieP]

Sure, which might be enough for people on here, and the alike, to make the investment. As I said PC gaming has never been more popular and will continue to grow. But as the title says, it's not a threat to the console business at all because the general public couldn't care less about PC gaming.

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I think this is extremely condescending towards the "general public", and I'm curious who you think are making up the huge number of PC gamers out there if they are not members of the general public.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Depends on what tower he's using. Don't most PC gamers just have mid-towers?

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My tower is a NZXT H700 which is 19 inches long by 20 inches tall, and 9 inches deep. I could probably stack 4 to 5 XSX's inside my PC tower comfortably (I mean the PC tower completely empty with nothing inside it but just the XSX consoles)

PC's can be fairly big. I agree with everything with thomasmahler said though.

I preemptively build a new PC back in May to stay ahead of the curve for the entire next-gen.

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/m6fH99

 

[rodrigolfp]

Sure, which might be enough for people on here, and the alike, to make the investment. As I said PC gaming has never been more popular and will continue to grow. But as the title says, it's not a threat to the console business at all because the general public couldn't care less about PC gaming.

Click to shrink...

The millions playing LoL, DotA, PUBG, CS or WoW are very much included in the "general public".

 

[Kokoro]

Two things to consider. That was concurrent players numbers. Sales estimates are as high as 2M on Steam alone, nevermind PC Gamepass, for a port of a 9 year old game. Those are great results regardless of platform.

And there are lots of games with millions of concurrent players on PC, like LoL, WoW, PUBG, DOTA 2.

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Ho, ok, my bad, I tought it was the total number of players as in the total number of sales. I didn't know games sold in the millions on PC too. But I still think games tend to sell more on consoles when they are on both (except certain genre like RTS or isometric RPG that are more associated with PC).

 

[leng jai]

It's hilarious how this forum keeps trying to claim PC gaming is niche.

 

[Cordelia]

Hell most people still play on 1080p displays and have no clue about high refresh rates. To them a pc with a 1070 will last long into next generation.

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Indeed. PC gaming doesn't equal to high end gaming at all. They play on PC because they already had it either for school or work. The ceiling is a lot higher than console but the floor can also be lower than console although I believe that low spec PC/laptop these days is comparable to PS4.

What people doesn't seem to understand is that most PC gamer just play MOBA or FPS like CS:GO or Minecraft or MMO, just like most console player doesn't play first party AAA exclusive but sports and FPS games.

 

[Anomander]

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news..._main_competitor_isnt_the_Xbox_its_the_PC.php

Also i dont believe you have numbers to back up that it hasnt made a dent.

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Yup, I even bought PS4 Pro at lunch but wasn't satisfied and moved to PC. I haven't bought a single game on PS4 since more than a year ago.

Also you'd be surprised how many people on Steam are playing games on their potato PCs. In fact they're the vast majority.

 

[johancruijff]

donquixotting

(i don't know if it's a proper word, but still)

 

[thecaseace]

Look OP we can't have you round here making sense and points that destroy the opportunity for us to argue one platform is better than the other.

PC and Xbox can't co-exist one has to WIN.

And if there's elements such as convenience that differentiate the two we have to scrub those out of the conversation so we can argue about the elements that do matter.

/s

In all seriousness though, the points you make are blindingly obvious to those who live outside of forums like these PC gaming is a different market with it own requirements, pricing, preferences etc. And that's ok.

 

[AshenOne]

Sure, which might be enough for people on here, and the alike, to make the investment. As I said PC gaming has never been more popular and will continue to grow. But as the title says, it's not a threat to the console business at all because the general public couldn't care less about PC gaming.

Click to shrink...

Lmao general public does care about PC gaming thats why you see juggernauts like League of Legends, Fornite, CS:GO in the millions. PC crowd and console crowd game with different philosophies in general when it comes to customizability and convenience. I love how you dismissed the popularity of PC gaming among the general public though lol. The Audience for PC gaming has always kept the medium going forward and not getting shafted by the devs even during the most darkest of periods of it. Recently PC gaming is in its Golden age where the word 'Steam' and 'fortnite' is pretty well known among the general public.

 

[Elephant]

I think this is extremely condescending towards the "general public", and I'm curious who you think are making up the huge number of PC gamers out there if they are not members of the general public.

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Why on earth would that be condescending? The general public would rather game on a console than a PC. That's not speculation or "hating on the PC gamers", it's facts.

I'm not implying that no one wants to play PC at all, and I have to think you're deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying to defend your system of choice.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Oh then I don't see the purpose of this thread if you're using Xbox Series X as a vital part of the argument here. We don't even know its confirmed specs lol. Also iam absolutely sure you can get a better performance at a cheaper rate even for Series X when it arrives. Its been done in the last gen with base and Pro, X versions. You cannot dismiss a cheaper option until we get the actual thing release in the first place.

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If the XSX is indeed 12TFlops performance at RDNA levels, which is a 10% difference from Nvidia perf rates. Keep in mind the GPU in my PC the RTX 2080 is 11.5TFlops GPU and costs $700.

It's going to much harder to find PC spec to be cheaper than the performance of the XSX at the same cost at launch. Towards mid-gen when prices points go down, certainly but it's not going to as easy as it was simply due to the fact the Jaguar was already a weak chip even before it was announced to be used in the PS4 and XBO, same doesn't apply for a Zen 2 CPU at 8c/16t at the rumored 3.5Ghz perf.

 

[QuinchoOsito]

"You need at least $1,000 for a gaming PC" is the single most annoying talking point on this subject, and it's just not true.

 

[AshenOne]

If the XSX is indeed 12TFlops performance at RDNA levels, which is a 10% difference from Nvidia perf rates. Keep in mind the GPU in my PC the RTX 2080 is 11.5TFlops GPU and costs $700.

It's going to much harder to find PC spec to be cheaper than the performance of the XSX at the same cost at launch. Towards mid-gen when prices points go down, certainly but it's not going to as easy as it was simply due to the fact the Jaguar was already a weak chip even before it was announced to be used in the PS4 and XBO, same doesn't apply for a Zen 2 CPU at 8c/16t at the rumored 3.5Ghz perf.

Click to shrink...

First of all AMD and NVIDIA GPUs have a difference when it comes to efficiency. You cannot directly compare their models in terms of Teraflops and all we have right now are partial specs and rumors.

 

[Altair]

I mean this is kind of obvious. PC gaming has always been niche because it takes more investment than console gaming. Most people would rather not deal with the headache and price that comes with PC gaming despite the significant benefits over consoles. I play on a high-end PC, but I'd be crazy to say I don't miss the ease of the plug and play experience that consoles provide. That's not to say I miss 30 fps though and that's the biggest reason I decided to switch.

 

[thomasmahler]

PC is the most popular it's ever been, but it can't compete with consoles for the living room/bedroom comfort and as a family entertainment system. It also can't compete with the plug and play convenience.

When having these discussions PC players really need to switch off the thought process that just because they have the superior system in terms of power and customisation, that doesn't mean that it wins a popularity contest with the general public and frankly never will.

Just take a little step outside of your echo chamber for a bit of clarity. Gaming enthusiasts like us, who visit this forum and those like it, are a tiny percentage of people who play games worldwide.

Little Susie wants a Switch for Christmas.
Little Billy wants a PS4 for Fortnite.
Bob wants a Xbox to play COD with his mates after work.

These are the majority.

Click to shrink...

This.

 

[Bosch]

Sorry to disagree but to run games better than current consoles even a sub $500 can do that.

a ryzen5 3400g and a 5500XT will run games on par with a Xbox ONE X

 

[OldDirtyGamer]

Sorry to disagree but to run games better than current consoles even a sub $500 can do that.

a ryzen5 6400 and a 5500XT will run games on par with a Xbox ONE X

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Those pieces require the rest of a computer to work tho

 

[Altair]

Sorry to disagree but to run games better than current consoles even a sub $500 can do that.

a ryzen5 3400g and a 5500XT will run games on par with a Xbox ONE X

Click to shrink...

Why do people list off a CPU and/or GPU and think that's it? Those aren't the only components needed for a gaming PC.

 

[AshenOne]

This.

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PC can compete in both convenience and in plug n play but the fact is consoles do it better. Idk if you've been gaming on PC these days but its not the 90s where you need to tinker with every little thing to run a game. Just install steam, the game and the graphics drivers for the GPU. Steam installs all the required Directx and redistributables when you launch your game.

Even if you are having issues launching a game, sometimes a simple google does the the trick for you.

 

[OmegaDL50]

First of all AMD and NVIDIA GPUs have a difference when it comes to efficiency. You cannot directly compare their models in terms of Teraflops and all we have right now are partial specs and rumors.

Click to shrink...

This was the case when GCN was main factor for AMD GPUs, as of RNDA the gap is considerably much smaller. As stated around 10%

 

[gcwy]

Have you seen the Serious Sex? I don't exactly disagree with this point, but if the PS5 is anything like it, this is about to stop being relevant next year.

Click to shrink...

lmfao. Best one I've heard yet.

 

[JahIthBer]

I think the markets are both their own things, i always found it unfair when it comes to fanboy shitposting that Xbox games are not exclusive because they are on PC, Forza is still an Xbox console exclusive & in that market, the average joe doesn't give a shit it's on PC as he just wants a console for his TV.

The effect Consoles have on PC is the baseline driving up & the effect PC has on Consoles is the competition between AMD/Intel & Nvidia trickles down to better console performance, Ryzen would have never been so good if AMD didn't have to hire the legendary Jim Keller because Sandy Bridge embarrassed them so badly, i don't see either as a threat.

 

[statham]

Sorry to disagree but to run games better than current consoles even a sub $500 can do that.

a ryzen5 3400g and a 5500XT will run games on par with a Xbox ONE X

Click to shrink...

Xbox X is $349 right now. :P

 

[Deleted member 8784]

I've never understood the view that Microsoft are losing out because somebody is buying their game on a PC instead of buying an Xbox console, and then the game on top of that.

It's often the case that a company makes no money whatsoever (and sometimes even loses money) for every console that gets sold, especially at the start of a generation. They're taking that money off you without either or you or them needing to make any additional investment on a console.

I like how there can be a choice between the two now, and neither one has to miss out.