Why?
Same. Though I still find it VERY hard to give someone so casually dismissing (even a potentially terrible person's) identity the benefit of the doubt.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Canadian Human rights tribunal rules against Transgender woman over refusal of waxing services
- Thread starter MilesQ
- Start date
- Status
What authority do you have to decide a person's identity?
Like, I did just report your original post and move on, but now I'm actually curious if you're not trolling and really think you get to decide, and can't see the problem there.
You so absolutely would have been better off just saying nothing.
Ultimately the solution for waxing is simply to say they perform vaginal waxing only.
There's zero problem with that.
There's zero problem with that.
So you believe these beauticians should be forced to wax her penis and scrotum?
Yeah I think that's probably the best solution. Don't separate things into female/male here, just plainly advertise a particular service
How did you arrive at that? crowphoenix said nothing along those lines.
EDIT: They said that a womens genitals should be regarded as female genitalia, even if they have a penis. Now, this is a semantics thing, crowphoenix, I believe, is saying that this should be done in order to not to label a person as "woman with male genitalia". But that doesn't mean someone should be forced to touch anyone against their will. You're making a connection that isn't there.
I think they just advertised brazilian waxing as that is the most marketing friendly word and they're mostly not even native english speakers, and probably didn't anticipate this particular scenario.
Because then the beauticians are discriminating by refusing to service her female genitalia? I suppose the correct answer was already given, by just plainly defining it as vagina waxing services.
The lack of great English skills, which ties in to why they were targeted in the first place, complicates that a fair bit.
Official Staff Communication
Choosing whether or not to respect a trans person's pronouns is not a value judgement that will be permitted here and any such posts will be moderated accordingly.
No I know. I'm not blaming them. Just saying as a general rule that's the answer and frankly should be even if not directly stated the legal assumption.
Place the argument specifically rather than defaulting to gender binary.
We also dont know how many salons she went to they said sure she said nevermind cause she was 100% using predatory behavior on these owners
Maybe is what it is tho,
I'm not dismissing that poster I left it alone. And nah I'm not gonna be quiet on something but I'll be respectful about it
Absolutely, and that's a factor that shouldn't be ignored. It's natural to think of how things can be improved for people though to avoid issues, especially from bad faith actors like the woman in the OP
Please read my edit above. This is a semantics issue, you're conflating "vagina" and "female genitalia", which crowphoenix wasn't doing. I hope my rambling is somewhat understandable.
How so?
Genitalia are our reproductive organs. I don't think you can really separate them from their sexual nature, despite also being used to expel waste.
I also don't think there should ever be a situation in which one person insists another touch their genitals despite the other not wanting to that isn't seen as sexual assault.
Well I'm glad you won't be quiet about how other people view their genitals!
Just fyi I wouldn't say you're being respectful about my genitalia
Agreed, and also think that's fair. Nobody should be denied service for how they identify but if that service involves working on or around genitals then it's not so black and white anymore. And it is shitty because it looks like she targeted beauticians that she knew would deny her.
Because people avoid going to their women doctors with genital issues, which can lead to minor, but preventable shit being ignored.
Say, not letting your female dermatologist check discoloration on your dick. And then something minor turns into a major problem. I know, oddly specific.
Disagree, you can absolutely view reproductive organs not sexually. Why wouldn't you?
...okay? Thanks? Me too? That comment makes me think you didn't really understand what I meant.
Last edited:
User Banned (1 month): Transphobia, previous severe infraction for transphobic trolling
Ok what drugs are you on to come up with a statement like this?
a penis is LITERALLY male genitalia
I didnt speak on anyone's at all just a statement
I didnt say anything about just a disagreement but maybe I'm wrong I never said you were wrong. But again wasnt meaning to come off that way if I did disrespect you
Crowphoenix and another poster are conflating penis as female genitalia, which is the point of confusion, I think.
You can be a woman with male genitalia, assigned sex and real gender aren't the same thing. But a penis is still male genitalia and as with all genitals, no one should be forced to touch it if they don't want to.
They made the right call.
They made the right call.
No they aren't. They are saying a penis can be female genitalia, if it is part of a woman. It's not conflation, because it doesn't imply that all penises are female. You can disagree I guess, but don't put words into other posters mouths.
Your question:
...can be simply answered with "No, that's not what they are saying".
I believe that the penis and scrotum in question are female genitalia. As to how this situation should be handled, I do not claim to have the proper insight and would rather adhere to the guidance of an actual trans person.
Man this is fucked up. She absolutely sounds like an opportunist. Beauticians shouldn't be forced to work on genitalia they aren't trained on.
This reminds me of my surprise when I was out of town once. I went to get my haircut at a hair stylists, but no one there could shave my beard because they all lacked barbers licenses. It's a health issue. all my life, the barbers I'd been going to had licenses to do basically anything on the head and face, and I assumed that was universal.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shortage of Brazilian wax services for people with penis and scrotum. But that could be a demand issue as much as discrimination one.
This reminds me of my surprise when I was out of town once. I went to get my haircut at a hair stylists, but no one there could shave my beard because they all lacked barbers licenses. It's a health issue. all my life, the barbers I'd been going to had licenses to do basically anything on the head and face, and I assumed that was universal.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shortage of Brazilian wax services for people with penis and scrotum. But that could be a demand issue as much as discrimination one.
Correct, anatomical correct to be precise as anatomy books differentiates the sex of humans by their reproductive organs. It is what I was thought last semester.
I would assume they would simply see another doctor, though I can accept the possibility that their body issues would lead to them not discussing the issue at all.
Here in Australia it's not uncommon for doctors to ask their patient if they'd be more comfortable with a doctor of the same sex when it comes to particular issues.
You can look at a penis in a particular situation without thinking of it in a sexual way, but that doesn't stop the penis in general from being a sex organ. Genitals are the part of our body we use in sexual reproduction.
That was in response to this exchange:
-- Not really. If you don't want to touch a penis, you shouldn't have to touch a penis. Coercing someone into doing that is basically sexual assault.
-- But like I said in my rambling above, that's only if you see genitalia as something inherently sexual.
which I though was an odd response, even if I figured I knew what you were getting at. Responding to this is basically sexual assault with it wouldn't be if we though differently about our genitals is a bad take.
They are saying that genitals aren't male or female, because they don't decide your gender identity, which is the point of confusion, I think (for those catching bans in here).
Please don't lump this person in with the rest of the transgender community. This could have been a legitimate discussion but purpposely using fake profiles and pictures to trick people into waxing you is disgusting. There's enough evidence online to show Yaniv's psychopathic nature and ill intent.
You can have your Brazilian wax sign advertising outisde your spa without an issue. You start hanging vaginal wax signs and you are going to have problems depending on the neighborhood. Brazilian wax is an acceptable non-offensive term that let's people know what services are offered there without treading into lewd territory.
That's really the only take from this, yeah. I don't know how many pre-op trans women go for a Brazilian but you'd assume they stick with trans friendly places they know will do this sort of thing for them. By going to places that obviously aren't going to be prepared for a trans woman asking for penis waxing and then suing them if they don't do it, you're just starting trouble for the sake of drama and attention.
We do have to remember after all that trans issues are rapidly evolving and not everyone can keep up. It's still a relatively new concept that you don't need to pass as your gender identity (so no hormone therapy, no surgery, that sort of stuff) and a number of trans men and women don't even seem to want to, which also ties into trans men and women who don't want to get rid of their original genitals either.
It may well be we'll just have to get used to seeing women with penises wearing bikinis.
- Status