• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,428
We are the canary in the coal mine folks.

Elderly population, no steady or high wage work, high taxes, chronically underfunded by our provincial government, no family doctors, ambulances not running or available for hours at a time. 2 year waiting times to get mental health. The first responders here can't even get mental healthcare, after seeing people getting scraped off highways. The city is broke and fighting/suing the mainland provincial government every few years so that the bills get paid.

This is the story of a lot of rural Canada as well. The gap between the successful economies of Vancouver and Toronto and the stagnation of the rest of rural Canada keeps getting bigger and bigger. In my province of BC I've watched both the BC Liberals and BC NDP try and fail to address the core systemic issues of the secular decline in forestry. I don't think anyone really has the answer right now.

Without a doubt in my mind this is the future of rural Northern Alberta and BC once the oil and gas sector becomes unviable (which will happen at some point).

I noticed in an article earlier this year that the BC government in partnership with the Feds are building fibre all up the coast that is gonna connect very small, many of them indigenous, communities with high quality fibre internet connections. This isn't in itself a solution to anything, but providing funding for infrastructure is one of those things that the Feds are good at, and "increasing connectivity and education" is a reasonably good thing for the BC government to do when they're basically out of other ideas about how to improve the local rural economy. Maybe some policies like this would help in the rural Atlantic as well.

There hasn't been a lot of talk of rural Canada in this election so far. I noticed the NDP put forward a special 'Northern Ontario' platform which is probably because Northern Ontarian Charlie Angus is the #2 guy in the Fed Party. If the NDP accordingly does well in Northern Ontario maybe we'll see other parties follow suit, recognizing that the sort of promises that play well in the 905 may be a lot less relevant in rural Canada.

Federal government blame here from me falls on it being all Liberal here, in and out of government since 1980, a 4 year shot for a PC seat and NDP seat back in the 80s and 90s. All Liberal otherwise. 40 years of Liberals for most of what is now the one riding. 1 in 3 kids here are in poverty, drug addicts roam around and hustle in plain sight, there is no funding for any services.

I understand where you're coming from. After all, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity isn't it?

What are your neighbours thinking? Are they as fed up as you or sticking with the status quo?

Have the Green and NDP candidates been visible at all or offered any novel local policies or are they placeholder candidates with zero expectations?
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,796
ContraWars sorry i didn't see you weren't in Alberta my mistake... but some of it still applies... but some things are also on the whims of evolving world economy.

But I'd have to write out a whole other post in order to explain why conservatism is still bad for your area. It's a bit complicated.
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Banned
Feb 25, 2018
8,536
Oil has been great for humankind. Now it is poison.

I'm sorry for your jobs. But it's over soon. It must. I hope the transition is as quick as possible.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
That is some "oppression Olympics" kind of language there. Not to mention the fact that the NDP guy's comments were misogynistic rather than anti-indigenous.

Are you indigenous? I bet you won't even answer this question.

As an indigenous person myself who is offended by what is happening here with the NDP candidate I think I can interpret those words just fine for myself and my community.

Thanks for belittling me and for your opinion on how I should take the statement and actions.
 
We only vote in Liberals. They accomplish nothing. They killed our coal industry, replaced it with Paul Martin's own imports of coal. We followed Newfoundland that lost the fishery, to Alberta. Now Liberals are trying to kill Alberta too. If there was anything viable, go for it. In the mean time we need to worry about keeping people working here.
Uh, no, the Liberals did not kill Cape Breton's coal industry. Cape Breton's coal industry died because it was economically unsustainable -- much like every other North American coal mining outfit (see also, why the Trump Administration has been trying an endless series of Hail Mary's to save its donors from the Appalachian coal companies).

And the Liberals are certainly not trying to "kill Alberta". That's the most ludicrous Rebel Media framing imaginable.

There hasn't been a lot of talk of rural Canada in this election so far.
I'd agree there. Though some of that is because "rural Canada" is so different depending on what region you're in, in terms of voting patterns and economic specifics, that there's probably less ability to design a particular set of initiatives pertaining to all of them. Probably also because most of rural Canada is so CPC already that the other parties don't consider it prime terrain unless it's either in the Atlantic or in the parts of Northern Ontario and the prairies where there's a huge indigenous vote.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,806
Canada
Are you indigenous?

As an indigenous person myself who is offended by what is happening here with the NDP candidate I think I can interpret those words just fine for myself and my community.

Thanks for belittling me and for your opinion on how I should take the statement and actions.

It comes off as a little suspect because you accused Singh of having terrorist sympathies a few pages ago and said he needed to apologize, which is in itself an intensely racist thing to imply.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
It comes off as a little suspect because you accused Singh of having terrorist sympathies a few pages ago and said he needed to apologize, which is in itself an intensely racist thing to imply.
whataboutthis whataboutthat

Learn to compartmentalize and be objective.

Oh stick with victim blaming. You appear to think it wears well on you.

Are you indigenous? I bet you won't answer this question either.
Have you any idea of the systemic racism indigenous people encounter? How casual the racism is?

It's obvious the indigenous guy is being ingeniune because of this and this and this....
therefore the concern means nothing.

Just part of the racism encountered everyday in Canada by indigenous peoples.
 

ContraWars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Canada
or maybe you should try

i dunno

diversifying the economy instead of relying on oil?

you know what toronto did and why it's the biggest booming cities in the west? DIVERSIFYING. Toronto used to be THE industrial hub. that's it. 1950s the city was basically where edmonton is now. Industry started it's slow demise so what did they do? They specialized the local economy. Industry is still moving out but industry isn't what drives the city any more. They're now laying the groundwork for a tech district on old industrial land. The city used to be old and crummy and even in the 90s growth completely flatlined. By diversifying, you start creating increasing pressure on other industries to keep up. (because of growth)

Albertans identification as a people should not be oil. Be something greater. Get ahead of the curve and fix the issues in a dynamic environment and shield yourself from economic downturns. Toronto, the industrial city, hog town. Now a hotbed for software engineering, medical, bio engineering, artificial intelligence, finance and many different subcategories. Growth has led to incredibly high demand for trades.

That's why you don't go all in on one thing. You target every possible industry you can. You support it with strong colleges and universities to allow specialist training and then you make it appealing for specialists to stay.

Now as to your blame towards the liberals... the only reason Alberta is currently in dire straights lies solely at the feet of OPEC and Alberta's unwillingness to diversify and nobody else. Shale oil isn't profitable at current oil prices. Them flooding the market with oil made shale extraction unprofitable. Alberta being fucked because they keep doubling down on a single damn thing is their own fault.

Blaming the liberals for Alberta's issues is pretty much like blaming Obama because you spilled your drink because you were balancing it on your finger while the drink was being poured with everyone around you telling you it wasn't a good idea and you should stop.

I am from Nova Scotia and a Liberal stronghold bud.

We depend on Alberta's economy. Diversified or not, we go where the work is at. That used to be Toronto for a lot of us too.
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
Are you indigenous? I bet you won't even answer this question.

As an indigenous person myself who is offended by what is happening here with the NDP candidate I think I can interpret those words just fine for myself and my community.

Thanks for belittling me and for your opinion on how I should take the statement and actions.
No, I'm not indigenous, but tell me again how what was in that quote from the NDP guy anti-indigenous? They don't mention the lady's ethnicity nor would I be able to guess "indigenous" based on the picture shown, so again, how was that comment anti-indigenous? If anything, considering they're in Brampton, guessing that the lady was "white" would be more reasonable, since most people of colour are brown here and she definitiely does not look brown. It was entirely misogynistic and inappropriate, but anti-indigenous? Nope.

And no, you brought up the issue of people taking issue with anti-Muslim rhetoric without being prompted, implying that you hate that Muslims get the attention rather than Indigenous people while using an issue that is obviously misogynistic (the NDP guy's comments) as anti-indigenous rhetoric. You basically said that people care too much about anti-Muslim rhetoric, which is Islamophobic rhetoric to begin with.

And you've also been denigrating a Sikh minority and you've taken issue with the Sikh turban as it concerns bike riding when that should not be up to you to decide. It's really funny when you employ a double standard and then act outraged when people call you out for racism.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,087
Halifax, NS
Aren't you getting ship building contracts?

Those contracts are mostly scams used to funnel money into Irving by having them build ships 70% of the way, putting them into the harbour to sink, and forcing the government to dredge it up and repair it (aka finish it) on their dime. Irving maintains a contract workforce than they conveniently lay off at regular interval to avoid paying certain benefits or holiday pay, but maintain enough of them that losing it would be a massive hit to "jobs" so no one wants to see them disappear.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
No, I'm not indigenous, but tell me again how what was in that quote from the NDP guy anti-indigenous? They don't mention the lady's ethnicity nor would I be able to guess "indigenous" based on the picture shown, so again, how was that comment anti-indigenous? If anything, considering they're in Brampton, guessing that the lady was "white" would be more reasonable, since most people of colour are brown here and she definitiely does not look brown.

And no, you brought up the issue of people taking issue with anti-Muslim rhetoric without being prompted, implying that you hate that Muslims get the attention rather than Indigenous people while using an issue that is obviously misogynistic (the NDP guy's comments) as anti-indigenous rhetoric. You basically said that people care too much about anti-Muslim rhetoric, which is Islamophobic rhetoric to begin with.
I didn't imply I hate the Muslims getting attention. That is your interpretation and I'm not sure how you get to that place without intentionally trying to get there.

It was meant to mean that people diminish the importance or don't support as strong against indigenous racism in Canada. Except from those parties that want those votes during an election who haven't shown any caring previously. Unless it interferes with their party's grandstanding.

And keep trying to rationalize and justify the tweet. You aren't going to convince anyone to not take this seriously who hasn't drunk the Orange Koolaid and will justify and forgive anything for their own members.
That is exactly what I would expect from an NDP government.

And it's still horrible even under the conditions you describe and you're still justifying.
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
I didn't imply I hate the Muslims getting attention. That is your interpretation and I'm not sure how you get to that place without intentionally trying to get there.

It was meant to mean that people diminish the importance.

And keep trying to rationalize and justify the tweet. You aren't going to convince anyone to not take this seriously who hasn't drunk the Orange Koolaid and will justify and forgive anything for their own members.
That is exactly what I would expect from an NDP government.

And it's still horrible even under the conditions you describe and you're still justifying.
LOL and you brought the NDP into it. I didn't even vote for the NDP.

And no, it was not anti-indigenous and you failing to inform us how it was anti-indigenous also speaks to that fact.

Also, you were most definitely being Islamophobic and racist when you brought up anti-Muslim rhetoric being of more concern to people than Indigenous values, especially unprompted. It's like how some Hispanic Americans say that they take issue when Black Americans get all the attention, which is a very racist thing to say.

You don't get to diminish the experiences of one minority group to elevate another without being a racist.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
User banned (2 weeks): continuously aggressive and bad faith behaviour and inflammatory accusations towards other members over multiple posts in the thread + previous bans for disruptive behaviour
LOL and you brought the NDP into it. I didn't even vote for the NDP.

And no, it was not anti-indigenous and you failing to inform us how it was anti-indigenous also speaks to that fact.

Also, you were most definitely being Islamophobic and racist when you brought up anti-Muslim rhetoric being of more concern to people than Indigenous values, especially unprompted. It's like how some Hispanic Americans say that they take issue when Black Americans get all the attention, which is a very racist thing to say.
You're obviously playing games and trolling. Laughing over a serious matter like this.

The only racist in this conversation is you.
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
You're obviously playing games and trolling.

The only racist here is you.
LOL

You've already spoken against Sikhs and their turbans.

You've already spoken against Muslims getting sympathy for being targets of racism.

You've also failed to show how someone who appears white and has no mention of being Indigenous being attacked for being a woman is anti-Indigenous racism.

You seem to have an axe to grind against visible minority immigrants.

Many others have also called you out on your language here. Maybe take some time off the Internet and reflect?
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
LOL

You've already spoken against Sikhs and their turbans.

You've already spoken against Muslims getting sympathy for being targets of racism.

You've also failed to show how someone who appears white and has no mention of being Indigenous being attacked for being a woman is anti-Indigenous racism.

You seem to have an axe to grind against visible minority immigrants.
Still with the whataboutisms

Could you stop with your bickering and derailing.

If you want to discuss these matters separately then you should have done so.

Using them as tools to attack doesn't show you want to discuss the matter.
I provided receipts for all my claims.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,443
The tweet is bad enough that the candidate should quit to go home and be family man, but I guess at this late stage in the campaign you won't see that happen anymore.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
"whataboutism"

You brought up Muslims apropos of nothing. You keep bringing Singh in many discussions in this thread apropos of nothing, responding to people who are not even tangentially talking about the NDP or Singh.
not apropos of nothing.
Are you even into politics and following this election or just showing up to attack me?

The Quebec Greens were pushing for the fed Greens to kick out candidates who made Islamaphobic twitter posts. That is what that was in reference to.
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
If you want to discuss these matters separately then you should have done so.

Using them as tools to attack doesn't show you want to discuss the matter.
I provided receipts for all my claims.
No, you did not.

Again, show us how the guy's tweet was anti-Indigenous. It was definitely misogynistic and I want him removed for that, but anti-Indigenous?

Also, your anti-Muslim rhetoric and anti-Sikh rhetoric is not whataboutism. It's a double standard that you're failing to confront.
 

Deleted member 49179

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2018
4,140
I definitely support a healthy discussion around Bill 21, but please get your facts right... Too much fearmongering and erroneous statements in this debate already.

 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
No, you did not.

Again, show us how the guy's tweet was anti-Indigenous. It was definitely misogynistic and I want him removed for that, but anti-Indigenous?

Also, your anti-Muslim rhetoric and anti-Sikh rhetoric is not whataboutism. It's a double standard that you're failing to confront.
Then quote those posts and let's talk about them, pal. Because right now you're not talking about their veracity. You're just using them as a weapon hoping you don't get asked to discuss them on their own.

Plus I don't need to justify myself to you. Your hostile intention is clear.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,428
Speaking of rural issues, here's an interesting niche Northern issue.

Inuit artists call Elizabeth May 'hypocritical' for touting Indigenous rights but opposing seal hunt
Green Party leader says Inuit-harvested sealskins should be labelled

Two prominent Inuit artists say Green Party leader Elizabeth May is being "hypocritical" by claiming to support Indigenous rights while also opposing the commercial seal trade.

Inuk musician Tanya Tagaq and Inuk filmmaker Alethea Arnaquq-Baril say May's opposition to the commercial seal trade hurts Inuit communities who depend on the pelts for much needed revenue.

"If you are going to be an advocate for environmentalism, I think the worst way to do that is to believe in the propaganda machine that prevents Indigenous people from living and surviving and corners them into non-renewable resource development," said Tagaq, a Juno and Polaris Prize-winning musician.

"I just think it's incredibly hypocritical."

May has repeatedly stated her opposition to the commercial seal hunt over the years. In 2011, the Green Party's platform spelled out its opposition to the commercial seal hunt. In 2016, she was one of a handful of MPs that voted against a House of Commons motion to create a National Seal Products Day.

At the time, both Tagaq and Arnaquq-Baril challenged May's position on Twitter.

Tagaq said May never responded to their concerns and her office has never followed up to discuss the matter.

"I also found it very diminishing that she was completely disinterested in understanding the logic we were presenting to her," said Tagaq.

"As per typical, Indigenous women's voices were completely ignored, but there is nothing but logic coming from our side."

During a campaign stop on Vancouver Island Thursday, May responded to the criticism saying that she has reached out to Inuit communities and spoken to Natan Obed, president of Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, the national Inuit advocacy organization, about the issue.

May said that she doesn't oppose Inuit seal hunting. She said there should be a process to label Inuit-harvested seal pelts so they can get around seal product bans in the European Union.

"There is no hypocrisy. We are fully committed to recognizing the rights of the Inuit peoples to the circumpolar North within Canada," said May.

"The Greens believe that by working in partnership with the Inuit, with products that are sustainably harvested and labelled as such, as ethical and coming from Indigenous communities, we need to come up with a program and a policy that allows that to remain sustainable."

May said the bigger issue facing the Inuit homelands was climate change.

"If we ignore the climate crisis, that means the ways of life, the ways of hunting, everything about the ways of life for the circumpolar peoples comes to an end," she said.

Arnaquq-Baril, whose multi-award winning documentary Angry Inuk explored the impact of anti-sealing campaigns on the Inuit economy, said May has tried to create a "false distinction" between Inuit subsistence sealing and commercial sealing.

"In reality, the majority of commercial seal hunters are Inuit," she said.

"The Green Party falsely describes Inuit sealing as non-commercial. They imply that Inuit don't hunt commercially, that it's all subsistence, which is completely untrue."

In Nunavut, wildlife officers purchase sealskins from hunters across the territory and then sell them on the international market.

According to the film Angry Inuk, anti-sealing campaigns by environmental and animal rights groups in the 1970s and early 1980s led to a European Union ban of products that used skins from whitecoat harp seal pups. While the ban only targeted one type of sealskin, it caused the whole market to crash in the mid-1980s.

"It was our Great Depression," said Arnaquq-Baril in the film.

Filmmaker Alethea Arnaquq-Baril says the majority of commercial seal hunters are Inuit. (Travis Burke/CBC)
The European Union passed a ban on all sealskin products in 2009. However, since then, Nunavut, N.W.T. and Greenland have won exemptions for fur products of certified Inuit origin known as the "Inuit exemption."

Nunavut, N.W.T. and Greenland team up on European politicians to promote Inuit seal skin products
Arnaquq-Baril said the continuing campaign against commercial sealing directly impacts the economy and livelihood of Inuit who have depended on seal hunting to survive since time immemorial, and as a source of revenue for about a century.

"Since the beginning of the introduction of a wage economy in the North, the fur trade has been incredibly important to our communities," said Arnaquq-Baril.

"We were suddenly forced into working within the cash economy. It's either make money or die. When the main source of income is taken away, people go hungry, they live in poverty, and that is exactly what happened."
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
not apropos of nothing.
Are you even into politics and this election or just showing up to attack me?

The Quebec Greens were pushing for the fed Greens to kick out candidates who made Islamaphobic twitter posts. That is what that was in reference to.
No, it was apropos of nothing because your framing of using that to attack the NDP was entirely irrelevant, not to mention entirely inappropriate, as you basically said why do people care about anti-Muslim rhetoric so much. You don't diminish the experiences of racism of one group to elevate another.

Your hostile intention is clear.
Oh the irony.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
No, it was apropos of nothing because your framing of using that to attack the NDP was entirely irrelevant, not to mention entirely inappropriate, as you basically said why do people care about anti-Muslim rhetoric so much. You don't diminish the experiences of racism of one group to elevate another.

Then your problem was with the wording. Which I cleared up already. Hope it's clarified for you. If not, then tough shit. That's on you for that is the way it is.

Indigenous racism always gets buried and has to be justified for the racists down to the last point before they believe it happens.
Any wiggle room and they squirm and squirm and squirm.
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
Indigenous racism always gets buried and has to be justified for the racists down to the last point before they believe it happens.
Any wiggle room and they squirm and squirm and squirm.
Again, explain how that tweet was anti-Indigenous racism. The woman that he attacked did not look Indigenous especially in the context of Brampton and was not mentioned to be Indigenous. I live in Brampton, just like that guy. If I saw that woman here, I'd think she was white, particularly of Mediterranean descent because many women here who look like her are Canadians of Mediterranean descent.
 

ContraWars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Canada
Uh, no, the Liberals did not kill Cape Breton's coal industry. Cape Breton's coal industry died because it was economically unsustainable -- much like every other North American coal mining outfit (see also, why the Trump Administration has been trying an endless series of Hail Mary's to save its donors from the Appalachian coal companies).

And the Liberals are certainly not trying to "kill Alberta". That's the most ludicrous Rebel Media framing imaginable.


I'd agree there. Though some of that is because "rural Canada" is so different depending on what region you're in, in terms of voting patterns and economic specifics, that there's probably less ability to design a particular set of initiatives pertaining to all of them. Probably also because most of rural Canada is so CPC already that the other parties don't consider it prime terrain unless it's either in the Atlantic or in the parts of Northern Ontario and the prairies where there's a huge indigenous vote.

Liberals killed coal right when a wave of miners hired in the 70s were going to be eligible to retire. They had a mine prepped to ramp up. The politicians and management schmoozed overseas and bought 10m+ worth of mining equipment, and only wrote it off by burying it near the surface, because it wouldn't fit in the mine shafts to begin with. "Oops".

No wonder it was financially unsustainable. You think they would have let the miners retire with dignity after 20+ years. Ralph Goodale busted the union. Families broke up and had to leave for work. Labour broken and uneducated men in their late 40s and 50s told to fuck off and retrain for jobs that aren't even around.

Don't try to tell me Liberals didn't pull the pin here. They cut the lifeline, while Paul Martin's old family business shipped American coal in the harbor here for years to keep feeding the power plants.

The feds cut us loose and put people already dependent on a gong show government down as a burden to the provincial welfare. Miners couldn't get UI/EI either. Liberal austerity at the time.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Again, explain how that tweet was anti-Indigenous racism. The woman that he attacked did not look Indigenous especially in the context of Brampton and was not mentioned to be Indigenous. I live in Brampton, just like that guy. If I saw that woman here, I'd think she was white, particularly of Mediterranean descent because many women here who look like her are Canadians of Mediterranean descent.
I'd say that the hashtags calling her ugly and doubling down about her sex work probably held an extra racist intent behind it. You can't be a whiteguy calling a poc woman ugly, and especially making sexwork jokes at the expense of an indigenous woman ( #gottagetmesomeofthat #shejustmissedbeingpretty) given the ugly history and statistics that indigenous women are targeted for sexual assault at such a high rate compared to the general population. It will always have that extra layer, whether intentional or not.



As for the advanced polling, my gut tells me the Con vote is frontloaded and has no legs. I hope I'm right.
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,322
As for the advanced polling, my gut tells me the Con vote is frontloaded and has no legs. I hope I'm right.


yMbviIS.png
 
Status
Not open for further replies.