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Rocket Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,509
I'm trying to understand an Alberta exit....So a landlocked country with 4 million people in total wants to export its relatively dirty and expensive oil around the world. Its neighbor to the east and west don't want to build any new pipelines and nothing will change with the current status-quo with respect to its neighbor in the south. Sounds like a country that would be on the verge of economic collapse within a few years.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,443
I'm trying to understand an Alberta exit....So a landlocked country with 4 million people in total wants to export its relatively dirty and expensive oil around the world. Its neighbor to the east and west don't want to build any new pipelines and nothing will change with the current status-quo with respect to its neighbor in the south. Sounds like a country that would be on the verge of economic collapse within a few years.
Imagine looking at Brexit in 2019 and wanting to get in on the action.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,332
Separatism is still largely mocked in Alberta and proposed by some of the biggest fucking morons on the planet.
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,515
the moral of the story is don't pander to alberta cuz they'll vote conservative anyways
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,093
Looking at the regional gains and loses breakdown, the Liberals lost 6 seats in Quebec. It was off of the backs of the NDP that the Bloc surge was built from. I don't know if the BLQ can be blamed for preventing a Liberal majority. The Liberals lost more seats (7) in BC than in Quebec, they lost half as many (3) in Manitoba, and lost 4 in NB.

More like death from a thousand cuts, rather than the narrative that was on going (of which I too believed) that the BLQ spoiled the party for the liberals. The BLQ decimated the NDP, and that's how they received the vast majority of their seats. Quebec didn't ruin anything.
 
Looking at the regional gains and loses breakdown, the Liberals lost 6 seats in Quebec. It was off of the backs of the NDP that the Bloc surge was built from. I don't know if the BLQ can be blamed for preventing a Liberal majority. The Liberals lost more seats (7) in BC than in Quebec, they lost half as many (3) in Manitoba, and lost 4 in NB.

More like death from a thousand cuts, rather than the narrative that was on going (of which I too believed) that the BLQ spoiled the party for the liberals. The BLQ decimated the NDP, and that's how they received the vast majority of their seats. Quebec didn't ruin anything.
It's not a question of what seats the Bloc took from the Liberals, it's that prior to the Bloc surge the Liberals were on course to win a lot of the seats that the Bloc took from other parties.
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
I was expecting Scheer to resign yesterday evening. Oh well! It will be the CPC that will show him the door sooner or later (probably more sooner than later).

Also, there are serious rumors this morning that the phone call between Scheer and Trudeau before their speeches was... let's say less than friendly.
It almost explains why it took so long and Trudeau Obama'd Scheer.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,428
I know this is the NDP line today but "We weren't wiped out" is in no way a victory. They lost a bunch of seats, their Quebec stronghold is gone, they failed to get winnable seats in the GTA, and they're broker than I am. The NDP are never going to win elections if they view every defeat as a win. They need to learn from losses like this or in Ontario instead of grinning at "70% of the country voting progressive", as Olivia Chow is doing right now on TV.

I think the sense of optimism comes from what supporters saw from Jagmeet in the campaign and in the platform. There's a lot of positive signs for the future. If the NDP had seen this same declining seat count with a Mulcair-clone centrist as leader I'm sure sentiment would be a lot more grim.

Singh was an unknown with a deck stacked against him and he turned out to be a pleasant surprise on the campaign trail. He made supporters at least feel good about their vote useless as it may have felt to cast it. Singh's good performance also turned around media sentiment and apparently did result in an uptick in donations. For most of Singh's time as leader the media's only reporting on the NDP has been concern trolling so it's been nice to see a bit of a change.

Without a doubt the seat count is bad, and the "Singh Surge" that pollsters predicted at the last minute seemed to fizzle as voters in Ontario decided to stick with the safe bet to block the Conservatives. The most significant disappointment is in Toronto, where there was expectations that the NDP would take back Toronto seats and perhaps make a breakthrough in the 905. It's untenable for the NDP to be locked out of this region, and Singh was selected as leader in part because of the view that he could do better there than others.

As mentioned earlier the Quebec 'Stronghold' never was one. Mulcair and the Quebec MPs failed to solidify at all the gains Layton made and Quebec was essentially already a write-off before Singh even became leader.

In this new minority environment there's an opportunity if Singh plays it right to show Canadians that the NDP can deliver. The conditions are there for Singh to build on what he's established in this election.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
I mean, they won. Most were not expecting to win a majority at this point, many questioned whether they'd be stuck in a weak minority possibly even relying on the Bloc, or not in government at all. That's a far amount to be happy about.
At this point maybe, but a repeat Liberal majority was their plan from the beginning. It should have been a Liberal majority, but I don't think Trudeau had a good election and there are still trust and respect issues. The Liberals are not stronger today.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Some of my friends are very disappointed that the NDP surge wasn't as concrete as it felt.
So I wonder how the youth vote did turn out. Will be interesting to see the breakdowns and aftermath reports.

I didn't accurately predict how well the Bloc would perform or how miserable the PPC would, so that is a good cancellation lol. BC didn't really pull through for the NDP, but at least Ontario redeemed itself by turning away from the Cons enough to send a message.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,428
Fun Fact:



FPTP really on display as the garbage that it is this election.

Whole regions going an entire way and wildly distorted outcomes. Are we really to believe there are no Liberal or NDP supporters in Saskatchewan that deserve any representation? That there should be no representation for Conservatives in Toronto? The riding map is a disaster.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Liberals only lost 5 seats in Quebec, not too bad in a Bill 21 scenario

Legault is already complaining that the Federal will touch Bill 21, what a Caribou Pressé

Liberals beat the Bloc, 35 seats to 32
 

Sign

Member
Oct 31, 2017
425
I have been meaning to ask this for a while but how much push do you think Singh and the NDP will get from the increasing movements behind Bernie/AOC in the US, even if Bernie doesn't get the nomination he is bringing a lot of attention and discussion to the ideals? Obviously they are getting a lot more attention given the size of the US but I can't help but feel that as their message of progressiveness grows in the Millenial-Gen Z sphere we will see some of that translate up here with the NDP and even the Greens if they can broaden their platform.
 
At this point maybe, but a repeat Liberal majority was their plan from the beginning. It should have been a Liberal majority, but I don't think Trudeau had a good election and there are still trust and respect issues. The Liberals are not stronger today.
I mean, of course they wanted a majority, but for about a year now people have known that a majority was not likely in the cards, so that's not what people's expectations were. Of the range of possible outcomes, this is on the higher end of what was possible. Why wouldn't they be happy?
 

djkimothy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
I have been meaning to ask this for a while but how much push do you think Singh and the NDP will get from the increasing movements behind Bernie/AOC in the US, even if Bernie doesn't get the nomination he is bringing a lot of attention and discussion to the ideals? Obviously they are getting a lot more attention given the size of the US but I can't help but feel that as their message of progressiveness grows in the Millenial-Gen Z sphere we will see some of that translate up here with the NDP and even the Greens if they can broaden their platform.

The grievances that Bernie and AOC express in the US are not very present here. The stuff they fight for we have in some capacity. Asking for more is not a winning strategy in this country.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
I have been meaning to ask this for a while but how much push do you think Singh and the NDP will get from the increasing movements behind Bernie/AOC in the US, even if Bernie doesn't get the nomination he is bringing a lot of attention and discussion to the ideals? Obviously they are getting a lot more attention given the size of the US but I can't help but feel that as their message of progressiveness grows in the Millenial-Gen Z sphere we will see some of that translate up here with the NDP and even the Greens if they can broaden their platform.
stop using Bernie and AOC as crutches for your campaigning, NDP
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,332
Western seperatism involves a very, very, very few number of morons. Nobody in the west listens to them, and the rest of Canada shouldn't either. Don't give them a platform.
Absolutely, yet in here based on the comments you'd think it's some huge groundswell movement. It's not. Funnily enough the biggest advocates I've seen for it are redneck rig pig transplants from interior BC.
 

Deleted member 5582

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
118
I thought he deleted his account and he's blocked me anyways What does it say?
vvoHF61.png
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,889
Absolutely, yet in here based on the comments you'd think it's some huge groundswell movement. It's not.

The tweet I posted was more about politicians like Kenney promoting it rather than its popularity in AB

I know it's not popular but oil companies and politicians seem to be pouring gasoline on that fire regardless.
 

Sign

Member
Oct 31, 2017
425
The grievances that Bernie and AOC express in the US are not very present here. The stuff they fight for we have in some capacity. Asking for more is not a winning strategy in this country.
stop using Bernie and AOC as crutches for your campaigning, NDP

I am not talking about a 1:1 platform comparison because you are right, in a lot of instances the US is playing catch-up to what we already have. I was focused on their stances on wealth inequality, class disparity, etc since I see/hear a lot of similar grievances up here.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,201
I have been meaning to ask this for a while but how much push do you think Singh and the NDP will get from the increasing movements behind Bernie/AOC in the US, even if Bernie doesn't get the nomination he is bringing a lot of attention and discussion to the ideals? Obviously they are getting a lot more attention given the size of the US but I can't help but feel that as their message of progressiveness grows in the Millenial-Gen Z sphere we will see some of that translate up here with the NDP and even the Greens if they can broaden their platform.
Sanders and AOC are working to drag the Democrats left from their Obama/Clinton positions, which is not the dynamic here. You have to compare them to the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of Ralph Nader.

I would be fine if the NDP folded and infected the Liberals from within, but I expect that the selection process would mean that the party apparatus would just block any potential "extreme" candidates from the nomination process anyway.

I can't even imagine a Liberal rally where people started chanting "Tax the Rich". lol
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,889
I am not talking about a 1:1 platform comparison because you are right, in a lot of instances the US is playing catch-up to what we already have. I was focused on their stances on wealth inequality, class disparity, etc since I see/hear a lot of similar grievances up here.

Yes those are issues up here as well, the Millenial generation is largely fucked up here too.

People want an expansion of our public healthcare into pharmacare and dental as well as affordable housing as the large cities are unaffordable for most and that's where most jobs are.

People want to tax the fuck out of the rich here as well.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,332
The tweet I posted was more about politicians like Kenney promoting it rather than its popularity in AB

I know it's not popular but oil companies and politicians seem to be pouring gasoline on that fire regardless.
Kenney may be an idiot but he hasn't advocated separatism. He's said separate from Trudeau, which I guess fans the flames.

I don't know why oil companies would advocate for it either, the First Nations issue alone make it completely infeasible. You have a huge battle for land as soon as that is removed from Canadian control.

Literally no one of note is pouring gasoline on it, it's idiots on twitter and extreme right wing rags.

I get that it's fun to think that Albertans would rather shoot themselves than deal with Trudeau but you're talking PPC levels of support. It may as well not even exist.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
Scheer won't resign yet but I think the Knives will be coming out. He's a weak Federal Leader and Cons should know this. Maybe locking up Ford was a bad idea for them
He gone soon, or should be.

On the TV Rob Rae talked about Ford and how maybe they shouldn't have hid him. He was thinking Ford might have encouraged more conservative votes in Ontario. That's a scary thought, but I have a hard time believing that. Ontario has pretty much turned on Ford so I don't think he would have helped. I think if Doug Ford was involved, the Liberals would have won a majority.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755
I am not talking about a 1:1 platform comparison because you are right, in a lot of instances the US is playing catch-up to what we already have. I was focused on their stances on wealth inequality, class disparity, etc since I see/hear a lot of similar grievances up here.
It really depends on the messaging. The fact that they kind of copy the slogans of our southern leftists makes them seem out of touch.
Canada always wants to do little things like tax the wealthy a bit more, be nicer to the poor or undersupported, but the general "mood" of Canada is like "okay, but let's not get hasty!". We're not like the US in that we are not so into passionate and imflamed affect. We want to feel good, but not necessarily be angry.

I think the NDP will do better if they hammered in a "the Liberals think they are reasonable, but they are not and they are Quite Rude and Sloppy! We have good plans that are beneficial and healthy for our country. Let's Be Better."
As you can see, this is like.. not at all the tone of the US left and would be decried as liberal centrism or respectability politics, but I think it would play really well up here to push more progressive policies?

That's my thoughts though. Otherwise the NDP will have to go back to labour unions and working class stuff, which is very region-by-region and not conducive to big federal policies.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,823


CBC News Alerts @CBCAlerts

Jagmeet Singh says he hasn't spoken to Justin Trudeau about how the minority Parliament will work, but says he is open to anything. The NDP leader says he's not going to negotiate in the media, but says he has a duty to fight for the priorities he talked about in the campaign.​

12:30 PM - Oct 22, 2019
 
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