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DazzlerIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,760
We need to do more research on COVID immunity before throwing everyone out there to get it.

I haven't seen an article stating everyone is completely immune after getting it.

This is completely anecdotal but a podcast I listen to mentioned how they've been doing testing on monkeys to give them COVID. Once they recover, they're trying to infect them again and it's proved impossible so far

Here's a relevant link:

www.livescience.com

Macaque monkeys can't become reinfected with COVID-19, small study suggests.

What does this mean for humans?
 

shadowkat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,903
I am in a pessimistic mood but I think we need to define what good days are.

This virus can be stop, only staggered. Everyone is going to get it. I don't know how to fix Quebec's LTC issues & have no insights there

However, schools need to start reopening on May 4th. Start enlarging the contamination pool, so society can start building some immunity. No vaccine is coming in 6 weeks. Usually it's a 15 year process that can be reduce to 2 years but that still too long.
What? No. The whole point is not to overwhelm the healthcare system. Letting schools open means that the system will be overwhelmed because they will pass it on to their parents or teachers or school bus drivers.

Just because you get it doesn't mean there will be immunity. There are reports from South Korea that people have been re-infected. There is still quite a bit we don't know about this disease.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
Haven't gotten around to making a mask yet, but I do have some old dust masks. Are those good enough?
Yes.

Currently nothing short of an N95 mask will protect you from the virus.

But any mask will protect other people from you. Because this virus is sneaky, and you could have the virus without knowing it. Wearing a mask (any mask) will prevent you from "speaking moistly" (the mask will catch/block your spit), and will protect the people around you.

The benefits of wearing a mask have been known for some time, but doctors weren't recommending it initially because they didn't want people to develop a false sense of security. It's more effective to keep a social distance (2 meters or 6 feet), and to frequently wash your hands with ordinary soap (also, don't touch your face). But mask wearing is advisable now too, so long as you understand that it doesn't protect you, it keeps you contained, and protects everyone else.

Wearing a cloth mask that you made yourself is probably more comfortable than a dust mask, but you can totally wear a dust mask until you get around to making a cloth mask.
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
This is completely anecdotal but a podcast I listen to mentioned how they've been doing testing on monkeys to give them COVID. Once they recover, they're trying to infect them again and it's proved impossible so far

Here's a relevant link:

www.livescience.com

Macaque monkeys can't become reinfected with COVID-19, small study suggests.

What does this mean for humans?

That's interesting, even brings up the South Korea cases retesting positive because the virus lingers for a bit.

Here's hoping they study it in actual humans at some point, before opening the floodgates.
 
Mar 3, 2018
4,512
I am in a pessimistic mood but I think we need to define what good days are.

This virus can be stop, only staggered. Everyone is going to get it. I don't know how to fix Quebec's LTC issues & have no insights there

However, schools need to start reopening on May 4th. Start enlarging the contamination pool, so society can start building some immunity. No vaccine is coming in 6 weeks. Usually it's a 15 year process that can be reduce to 2 years but that still too long.

This is a terrible idea, as stated countless times. There are teachers, admin staff, custodial staff, bus drivers, etc etc etc so many adults that interacts with the kids or are in the same building for hours and hours everyday. And this isnt counting the kids close relatives and family that they will be near.

We can barely get enough PPE to healthcare workers right now, let alone equipping every schools and daycare with masks, gloves, sanitizers and so much more in the next three weeks to reopen in May. Let alone none of the staff having being trained what to do, having quarantine rooms setup etc.

I say this from experience as an educator in Toronto. I work in a private childcare facility, and one of our 5 locations volunteered to-provide childcare and teaching to the children of essential workers. The guidelines and rules sent by the ministry of health and ministry of education to our facility will take us two to three weeks to implement, and this is ONE location.You need to check temperatures routinely, keep kids separated in different tables for food and separate play areas, have a sealed and sterilized quarantine room, extra staffing, lower kids numbers, constant disinfecting anything they touch, even wiping light switches every hour etc etc it was pages and pages of how to proceed. This is just one building that is going to provide childcare for 24 kids. Can you even imagine what they have to implement if they were to ask kids to come back into a school that has 100, 200, 300 or more students?

There is no way schools will reopen before September. It will need tons of planning. Even if they announce next week that schools are reopening in may, pretty much every single staff member I know in all our facilities, which adds up to around 80, will not go to work as they have verbally already stated and the owner is completely OK with it and agrees. Same goes for all the public school teachers I know. I know this last part is anecdotal, but nobody feels safe right now. Risking so many lives for a few weeks of whats left of school is pointless and reckless. My classroom has 16 kids, and I already have confirmation from 12 of the parents that they will not be returning until september when new policies and guidelines are fully implemented by the city.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,940
Montreal
I am in a pessimistic mood but I think we need to define what good days are.

This virus can be stop, only staggered. Everyone is going to get it. I don't know how to fix Quebec's LTC issues & have no insights there

However, schools need to start reopening on May 4th. Start enlarging the contamination pool, so society can start building some immunity. No vaccine is coming in 6 weeks. Usually it's a 15 year process that can be reduce to 2 years but that still too long.

It's not that simple. Case in point: My wife works with 4 year old kids with special needs in the Quebec school system. Most people when they hear special needs they think the children need help with their mental health, but in my wife's case a lot of the kids she works with have physical health problems and many of them are immunocompromised.

You can say "Well, those kids should stay home" but it's a daisy chain. Even if my wife and those kids were to be kept in a strictest, most controlled environment in school, both her and I still have to go out and do groceries, buy dog food, etc. More people out means a higher possibility of getting the virus which means a higher risk for those who are immunocompromised.

And that's just young kids in a specialized environment. Take your average 6-10 year old, already a germ magnet, and put them in an environment with many other germ magnets, then send them home every day with some of them even taking public transportation. High risk things start to spread from there.

Not to mention that at least the kids my wife works with know they are immunocompromised and should be kept extra safe. Some people and children have not had that kind of diagnosis yet and would be devastated if they caught COVID-19.

I personally think anyone saying that we should reopen schools on May the 4th is being either extremely naive or extremely self-centered. This school year should be lost and we should make the best of that while also preparing for August and September. I find that a lot of people don't take COVID-19 seriously until either they get it or someone they love gets it, or even worse, dies from it.

It is way better to be extra cautious in this situation then deciding, as a society, that there will be acceptable levels of losses here.
 
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BY2K

Membero Americo
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
Québec, Canada
Did we really get almost a thousand new cases in Québec in a single day? Can someone explain this? Why is this not slowing down at all?
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,940
Montreal
Did we really get almost a thousand new cases in Québec in a single day? Can someone explain this? Why is this not slowing down at all?

Improved tracking. We might see another spike about 10-12 days from now if people ignored warnings and spent their days relaxing on social distancing measures for Easter.

Tracking this thing is not an exact science either. For instance, I had symptoms when this first started which went away after about 10-12 days. However, I was never tested and I chose to self-isolate, which means I'd never be counted if I did have it. However, there's also the chance that I didn't have it, so no way to know for sure.
 

Barnak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,059
Canada
Did we really get almost a thousand new cases in Québec in a single day? Can someone explain this? Why is this not slowing down at all?
Yeah, we've been taking all these precautions for a month(which felt like 6 months) and it feels like there is no improvement in sight. Just not really encouraging honestly. :(

I just want to see my parents and the rest of the family in person. Damn fucking virus. Thank god I have a girlfriend or all that isolation would suck terribly for my human interaction "needs".
 
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Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,479
Did we really get almost a thousand new cases in Québec in a single day? Can someone explain this? Why is this not slowing down at all?
Quebec does a lot of testing vs most other provinces, the death number is insane at this point but I don't think he mentioned how many were in the last 24 hours. ICU occupancy has gone down 2 days in a row

I feel so bad for long term home residents, here is another example: 70% infected with COVID-19
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,375
So the second period of CERB is up. Is it up to the people to decide when they apply for that period? Like you can get that second $2000 any time between now and May 9 depending on when you choose to apply? For some reason I thought it would be up later since the first one went up recently.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
Québec, Canada
Quebec does a lot of testing vs most other provinces, the death number is insane at this point but I don't think he mentioned how many were in the last 24 hours. ICU occupancy has gone down 2 days in a row

I feel so bad for long term home residents, here is another example: 70% infected with COVID-19

Oh yeah, what's happening with residences and CHSLDs is appalling. This whole thing has exposes some serious problems, which for the most part were problems we already knew we had, but didn't act on it, and now it's blowing up in our faces.
 
Mar 3, 2018
4,512
So the second period of CERB is up. Is it up to the people to decide when they apply for that period? Like you can get that second $2000 any time between now and May 9 depending on when you choose to apply? For some reason I thought it would be up later since the first one went up recently.

That is correct. You can apply anything during the period as far as I know.
 

A Grizzly Bear

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,096
Yes.

Currently nothing short of an N95 mask will protect you from the virus.

But any mask will protect other people from you. Because this virus is sneaky, and you could have the virus without knowing it. Wearing a mask (any mask) will prevent you from "speaking moistly" (the mask will catch/block your spit), and will protect the people around you.

The benefits of wearing a mask have been known for some time, but doctors weren't recommending it initially because they didn't want people to develop a false sense of security. It's more effective to keep a social distance (2 meters or 6 feet), and to frequently wash your hands with ordinary soap (also, don't touch your face). But mask wearing is advisable now too, so long as you understand that it doesn't protect you, it keeps you contained, and protects everyone else.

Wearing a cloth mask that you made yourself is probably more comfortable than a dust mask, but you can totally wear a dust mask until you get around to making a cloth mask.
Yeah, I've been keeping up to date and knew it was more for protecting others. Thanks for the reply!

Now I just have to figure out where the hell to find gloves.
 

Raydonn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
919
Just for the sake of clarity, and FYI : that's not the same criteria.

You still need to have earned 5000 $ of employment/self employment/maternal leave over the past 12 months or in 2019.

Previously you couldn't apply if you were still receiving income, even if it was severely impacted by COVID. Yesterday's announcement just made it so you can still earn up to 1000 $ per month from your employment and still be eligible for CERB.
Yeah, you're right. I don't know how I got that idea.
The whole CERB is so confusing. At this point why don't they just give it to everyone, except to have a claw back next year (high income = 100% claw back).
Because then there would be no incentive for people who are currently working to continue working. It's also not free income, so high income = claw back doesn't make sense. Everyone is repaying it as a form of tax in the future. What will people who don't work do to pay it back if they never had employment income to begin with?
So the second period of CERB is up. Is it up to the people to decide when they apply for that period? Like you can get that second $2000 any time between now and May 9 depending on when you choose to apply? For some reason I thought it would be up later since the first one went up recently.
If you applied through Service Canada or EI, you have to do the report every 2 weeks until you run out or are employed again.
If you applied through the CRA, you do it once every 4 weeks until you run out or are employed again.
 

Arthois

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,006
Do we even know that we're at a point to start building the "herd immunity" yet? Where is the data that says this is a good idea at this point in time? I'd love to be there too, but let's be realistic: we don't know.

I'd go with no, it's not. Time to start mass testing everyone. If quarantine is not working, how do we stop?
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,479
Oh yeah, what's happening with residences and CHSLDs is appalling. This whole thing has exposes some serious problems, which for the most part were problems we already knew we had, but didn't act on it, and now it's blowing up in our faces.
The level of pay that is offered was crazy low for the amount of expertise and workload.
 

dem

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
900
Only 1 new case and 14 more recovered in SK today..
82 active cases.

The positives of being a flyover province.
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,479
Do we even know that we're at a point to start building the "herd immunity" yet? Where is the data that says this is a good idea at this point in time? I'd love to be there too, but let's be realistic: we don't know.
Herd immunity is like 80% of the population I believe. We are not even a fraction of that and still do not know if we will develop long term immunity or resistance to covid-19.

Right now social distancing and testing is all we can do
 

Pyke Presco

Member
Dec 3, 2017
437
Pfft. We're at ~30000 confirmed cases, in a country of 37+ million people. That's like 0.08% of the population, and if herd immunity requires 80%, we would have to have another 1000 times the amount of people who have it now get infected. Let's assume that for every confirmed case, we have 50 people also infected that aren't symptomatic, didn't get tested, or just toughed it out at home and came out the other side (ie a 2% rate of people confirmed to people actually infected). That would still only put us at 4% of the population who had it or have it right now, and that's quite possibly overestimating the numbers. We would need to infect at least 20 times the amount of people that have it right now, possibly more, to get to 80% of the population and achieve the "herd immunity" that may or may not even work, because we simply don't know enough about this virus.

We are absolutely nowhere close to through the woods on this. It's insanity to think about deliberately infecting enough of the population to build herd immunity at this stage, especially considering that we don't know if it will work.

We just don't have enough information about this thing yet, we'll have to keep up the social distancing measures until we have enough testing capability to effectively test everyone on a regular basis. And we are nowhere near that capacity yet.
 

Shroki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,911
Just look at whatever Jason Kenney's approval rating is.

It's probably at least that high.

Well, without having access to a pandemic-era approval rating for Kenney, I would guess it's well down from the <50% it was before hand.

Anecdotally, a lot of these people actually do not like Trump. Like, I'm sure these turbo-morons who champion Wexit and wear yellow vests have raging MAGA envy, but many of these people in my family or that I come across on social media are happy to defend the UCP from one side of their mouth and talk shit about the US and Trump on the other. They reject the comparison. Which from my perspective is a lot like watching a Mormon question the credibility of the Scientology dogma; but they really can not see it.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
(Oops didn't mean to post this in Canada covid thread. Don't wanna give false data -- she's an American. Good luck my neighbors 👍)
 
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-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,375
That is correct. You can apply anything during the period as far as I know.
I guess this one came out so fast because the other was backdated...so it makes sense

My aunt died of COVID today. It was inevitable for her, she was in her 70s and in an assisted living facility for mental deterioration, and she contracted it on Monday, died today. She was DNR because of her mental deterioration, Boston area.

We were close when I was younger, less so when I was older because of a major falling out in our family, although my aunt and I kept good relations. We had a good experience together about 5 years ago and so I'm glad about that.

No need for sympathies though, i know that anybody who reads about loss it synpathizes already 👍
that really sucks
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,888
Anecdotally, a lot of these people actually do not like Trump. Like, I'm sure these turbo-morons who champion Wexit and wear yellow vests have raging MAGA envy, but many of these people in my family or that I come across on social media are happy to defend the UCP from one side of their mouth and talk shit about the US and Trump on the other. They reject the comparison. Which from my perspective is a lot like watching a Mormon question the credibility of the Scientology dogma; but they really can not see it.

Unbelievable.

The lack of self awareness is ...... something.
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,866
BC little update:

+14 new cases
+ 2 deaths
-120 hospitalized currently
-56 currently in ICU

Dr. Henry didn't give a live update today, because they're gearing up for a modelling update tomorrow at 11 a.m.

Definitely not time to let up! Bring on the rain next week! ☔️
 

Inquisitive_Ghost

Cranky Ghost Pokemon
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,126
agvDoTt.gif
Okay, I keep seeing these guys and I have no idea who they are or what this meme is supposed to mean. Can someone please explain? XD
 
Oct 27, 2017
399
BC little update:

+14 new cases
+ 2 deaths
-120 hospitalized currently
-56 currently in ICU

Dr. Henry didn't give a live update today, because they're gearing up for a modelling update tomorrow at 11 a.m.

Definitely not time to let up! Bring on the rain next week! ☔

I'd love some rain, personally! My desk is next to my radiator and it's too rusted to turn it down. I need to buy some wd40 to save myself from my own heating system, so I would not complain if it cooled down a little bit :)

That modelling update sounds good - I'm glad they are sharing it.

I wanted to point out that the BCCDC has an ARCGIS dashboard available for BC new cases, hospitalizations, and testing stats, in case it's of interest to people. It can be filtered by health authority. For people who like to explore the data themselves, the csv of cases and lab tests (along with the link to the dashboard) are on the BCCDC site, which I'll link because there are different versions of the dashboard depending on browser:

Archived B.C. COVID-19 Data

On this page, you will find links to archived B.C. COVID-19 data.

Data%20Dashboard.PNG
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
Got a work email saying they are looking for volunteers to go into CHSLD. No matter what your position/job is. If not enough people volunteer they will force people to go anyway. They will be closing beds and reducing clinics to do this. Curious how this will play out with the collective bargaining when this is all over.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,407
I'd go with no, it's not. Time to start mass testing everyone. If quarantine is not working, how do we stop?

Quarantine is working everywhere in Canada except Quebec. I'm not sure if anyone has posted the tweets here yet, but a pollster (Frank Graves, I think) said that new survey results show that for some reason, people in Quebec aren't actually following the rules compared to other places, which would explain the difference in spread.

I agree, greater testing is needed, but distancing is working when people are buying into it. Some provinces are down to single digits for new cases now.
 

MathLx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
153
Quarantine is working everywhere in Canada except Quebec. I'm not sure if anyone has posted the tweets here yet, but a pollster (Frank Graves, I think) said that new survey results show that for some reason, people in Quebec aren't actually following the rules compared to other places, which would explain the difference in spread.

I agree, greater testing is needed, but distancing is working when people are buying into it. Some provinces are down to single digits for new cases now.

I could have sworn I've seen reports showing Quebec follows directives and rules just as much as everyone else. This website claims that Quebec saw the "greatest reduction, at 70 per cent" when it comes to people going to stores or parks.

Most people I know here are following the rules. Even compared to other places.

Maybe you should find your source, because I'm kinda tired of having everyone go "oh but people in Québec are not staying home" when most people I know have been staying home and doing everything they can to stop the spread of the disease.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
I'd love some rain, personally! My desk is next to my radiator and it's too rusted to turn it down. I need to buy some wd40 to save myself from my own heating system, so I would not complain if it cooled down a little bit :)
If I might suggest, WD40 will do an excellent job of loosening up your valve (because it's a penetrating oil), but after the WD40 evaporates, the rubber seals will grab the metal even harder than they did before.

I would suggest silicone lubricant.

Once this stuff works it's way in, your valve should glide nicely and be properly fixed for years.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,407
I could have sworn I've seen reports showing Quebec follows directives and rules just as much as everyone else. This website claims that Quebec saw the "greatest reduction, at 70 per cent" when it comes to people going to stores or parks.

Most people I know here are following the rules. Even compared to other places.

Maybe you should find your source, because I'm kinda tired of having everyone go "oh but people in Québec are not staying home" when most people I know have been staying home and doing everything they can to stop the spread of the disease.







He runs EKOS, the polling firm. People in Quebec apparently believe (at a greater amount than the rest of Canada) that they are not at risk. 10% lower than other provinces.
 

MathLx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
153






He runs EKOS, the polling firm. People in Quebec apparently believe (at a greater amount than the rest of Canada) that they are not at risk. 10% lower than other provinces.


Been trying to find his research on his twitter and I'm still not able to. While it's true that people believing they're more safe and not at risk can lead to people not taking the necessary precautions when going on, I need to see his actual research. Google at least has data for me to look at.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,361
Quarantine is working everywhere in Canada except Quebec. I'm not sure if anyone has posted the tweets here yet, but a pollster (Frank Graves, I think) said that new survey results show that for some reason, people in Quebec aren't actually following the rules compared to other places, which would explain the difference in spread.

I agree, greater testing is needed, but distancing is working when people are buying into it. Some provinces are down to single digits for new cases now.
Weird, Google said not only differently but the total opposite. Who's this guy and where's his receipts?
 

Arthois

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,006
Graves is a trusty source. Listening to him over the last elections would have save a lot of people angst over the possibility of the CPC winning.