• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
I feel for train transport to make it back a lot of work need to move back to Urban areas. Sadly the perforation for county warehouses place the off the public train paths. Doesn't it?
Second hand ICE cars are not banned, even if this measure should be accompanied with banning them gradually from high density cities. And 15-20 years seems a good timespan to make the transition.
This. ICE cars will still be available on the used and import market with the infrastructure for them still after the 15 years this is implemented
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Second hand ICE cars are not banned, even if this measure should be accompanied with banning them gradually from high density cities. And 15-20 years seems a good timespan to make the transition.
I'm all for making the transition the problem is

1. I live in the south
2. I normally work in small towns for major construction jobs and live in the nearest city which tends to still be relatively small and an hour+ away one way trip.
3. When I do have a temporary residence it's in an apartment complex.

If this goes nation wide and the infrastructure is built out over time I have no worries #3 which is my biggest issue won't matter in the long run if management companies start putting charging stations in each parking space designated for an apartment complex. 30-40 years from now is far away enough it could happen, but at the same time I can't pretend to know where we'll be.
 

Brandson

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,219
2030 is about the earliest anything like this could potentially be implemented. I'm looking forward to having a Volvo EV by then if they can release one suitable for 3 kids. There really aren't a lot of EV options for large families. That needs to be addressed.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,882
Hydrogen makes no sense. You basically need the equivalent of the oil infrastructure at all levels, from production to distribution, but this time used SOLELY to power vehicles, and need it everywhere, which represents a tiny fraction of the ROI compared to oil, while at the same time having a competing source of power of which the distribution and production infrastructure and the power itself is not dedicated specifically for vehicles.


Hydrogen is just the fossil fuel industry trying to stay relevant. They want to make hydrogen by burning fossil fuels so you can pay money for the privilege of filling up at a hydrogen station.
You could make green hydrogen by solar power but it's inefficient (why not just charge a car from solar power).

It might make sense for planes or big trucks but I am already seeing cities buying or testing electric buses and orders are placed for Tesla trucks etc?

Where is the hydrogen power products?


Honda Canada's GM said there was no market demand for electric vehicules in canada. Shows you how smart they are.
The fact they are ditching all of their coupes tells me I'll be ditching honda soon.

Japanese manufacturers are all for hydrogen and anti-EV for the most part. Nissan seems to be the exception.
Toyoto was calling hybrids "self charging" in ads not too long ago.
 
Last edited:

Calm Killer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
824
I hope thats sarcasm, if not you must be sitting on a mountain of privilege. A large amount of people cant afford payments on a 38,000 (taxes/fees) car who dont have the knowledge or have the support to buy a good reliable used car as an alternative to a new car with warranty. The delta between that elusive base mode tesla that in 2030, which will never be that "cheap" again, and a Mitsubishi Mirage or a Nissan Note is double the cost.

Generally speaking, blindly placing bets on the infrastructure and availability of charging for all, just to rush to beat the front of ICE car sales, seems to be nothing but a cry for political points. These are genuine limitations to growing the still limited section of new battery car sales to "all" new car sales. I also fret thinking what third world countries rich in base materials needed for batteries will do to their local environment to pump shit out for packs at this scale
Is this a real post? Not everyone makes enough money for new cars, and there's a fuck ton of new cars on the market that aren't anywhere near $35,000. I don't mean to put you on blast, this just seems out of touch. Us folks on the bottom aren't buying $35,000 vehicles any time soon, and the used market has crept way up in the last year.

I literally said if you can afford a new car. You go on to explain how people cannot afford a new car. The cost of Tesla's drop each year as well as the tech improves. in 3 years there will be a base $25,000 model.
 
Last edited:

Calm Killer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
824
Good luck with that. Not happening in the States. Maybe in 30 years once the electric car tech really takes things to the next level. That's just going about the problem backwards. If we invested in the infrastructure for it then it'd catch on ALOT faster here.



How the hell can I charge the thing? I live in a building with no plugs anywhere near the parking lot. Also, that car is tiny as fuck. No way in hell I'm giving up my Grand Cherokee for that.

I don't know where you live, but there might be options around you with charging stations being added all the time. Also you have the charging station added where you live. Again, I don't know your specific setting so I can't answer. It isn't a one size fits all answer though.


The 2019 Jeep Cherokee has an initial cargo capacity of 24.6 ft3.
With rear seats folded down, the 2019 Jeep Cherokee has a maximum cargo capacity of 54.9 ft3.

The Model 3 is only around 15.7 ft3. So it is smaller, but we are comparing a car to an SUV, so no surprise there. The cost delta is different.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,235
The reaction in this thread, along with threads about items like A/C, shows that most people (inc me) are only environmentalists when convenient for themselves.

As soon as it requires any kind of large sacrifice or inconvenience, people are out. And as well, it has an equitable difference as you can tell from comments around price of electric cars. That's a bit of a fallacy as there's manufacturers in China and India making electric cars for less than $1500 US. But yes, assuming you leave the current regulations, driving conditions, and infrastructure of a gasoline car filled world, then it's not equitable.

For me personally, my environmental hypocrisy is around flying (pre-covid). I would sometimes buy carbon offsets to feel better about it but I don't think I would sacrifice flying (would be impossible in my world pre-covid but covid has shown it's not really as needed anymore so hoping that sticks, and not being able to travel for pleasure would be a big sacrifice for us).
 

Calm Killer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
824
Uh first of all not everyone who buys a new car spends that much and second of all even if they did, you screw over those who have nowhere to plug it in. The infrastructure is no where near ready. That comment is way out of touch.


Yeah. I mean it's only $10,000 to $15,000 (or even $20,000 if going extremely budget conscious) more expensive than most entry-level new vehicles. Nobody would even notice!

Right, because they are buying an ICE vehicle which has had about 100 years of development to bring prices down. Tesla has had 17 years to get to where they are. Other are following.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,651
Canada
The reaction in this thread, along with threads about items like A/C, shows that most people (inc me) are only environmentalists when convenient for themselves.

As soon as it requires any kind of large sacrifice or inconvenience, people are out. And as well, it has an equitable difference as you can tell from comments around price of electric cars. That's a bit of a fallacy as there's manufacturers in China and India making electric cars for less than $1500 US. But yes, assuming you leave the current regulations, driving conditions, and infrastructure of a gasoline car filled world, then it's not equitable.

For me personally, my environmental hypocrisy is around flying (pre-covid). I would sometimes buy carbon offsets to feel better about it but I don't think I would sacrifice flying (would be impossible in my world pre-covid but covid has shown it's not really as needed anymore so hoping that sticks, and not being able to travel for pleasure would be a big sacrifice for us).
Honestly, I live in a swamp, we hit 90-100% humidity days here in the summer for weeks... Driving in a car without AC, even with the windows down is a nightmare.
 

Calm Killer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
824
Look if we are trying to compare a base model Ford Focus to a Tesla Model 3 base, then no, it is not comparable. To me that is still an apples to oranges argument.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
Honestly, I live in a swamp, we hit 90-100% humidity days here in the summer for weeks... Driving in a car without AC, even with the windows down is a nightmare.
So in that regards electric is not so different than burning more gas with the A/C. With tech improving and charging stations built into existing infrastructure you will be at the same end.
 

Cake Boss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,068
Yes, If you can afford a new car, you can afford a Tesla. Model 3 starts at $34,990.

lol nope.

tesla.jpg


Especially here in Canada where AWD is pretty much required when compared to RWD. You are looking at $65K for AWD.

When comparing it to one of the most popular AWD car here is the CrossTrek.

9Fx4FYm.jpg
 

Smash-It Stan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,275
I still have trouble seeing how ANY goal will get met when every electric vehicle outside of cybertruck is a sedan. Aren't SUVs making record sales? Why would they all downsize?
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,728
USA
Sure, when electric cars are available for 15k and recharge stations are as abundant as gas stations. Until then it's a pipe dream.
 

RisingStar

Banned
Oct 8, 2019
4,849
Canada is like a liberal paradise lol

Its a front in many ways, but given what's down there it sure feels like it when you're not outside of your city.

On topic, it seems like they wanted Trump out before even thinking of an idea like this. I don't think it'll happen any time soon though. There needs to be more fuel stations built anyway.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
100% agreed. This is once again something that isn't even taking rural people into account one bit.
I would be disappointed as well if I had a community that is given a 14 year heads up but doesn't make any changes in infrastructure.
And people living in apartments. EV cars are a no-go for people like me because of this
This I can see but i have noticed that complexes have been implementing electric chargers already. Now to get a landlord that owns a few converted units on board would be the issue. Still charging elsewhere off site is still an option, similar to getting y'know gas.
 

Deleted member 9306

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
962
I actually really like this, but they need to do it before 2040 (by then it'll be too late), they need to give heavy incentives so that poor people can afford new cars, and we need to have better infrastructure for electric cars. Even i, who lives in Toronto, I've only seen one set of electric charging stations and that was outside of a bougie mall (Fairview)
 

Calm Killer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
824

SixPointEight

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,284
www.carfax.com

What Is the Cheapest Tesla You Can Buy in February 2024?

In this article, we'll tell you more about the cheapest Tesla on the market, the Model 3, and how much you can expect to pay for other Tesla models, new and used.

It's also *very* discontinued. Why are you telling people to buy a car that doesn't exist?

www.cnet.com

The much-hyped '$35,000' Tesla Model 3 is dead

The really cheapest Model 3 only lived for a few months, and Tesla sold a workaround option after that -- but not anymore.
 
Last edited:

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
Sure, when electric cars are available for 15k and recharge stations are as abundant as gas stations. Until then it's a pipe dream.
I think it depends on your situation.

If you live in an apartment there have to be changes.

But for the suburbs most people are ready to switch now if the price is right because you can charge at home.

For me I always buy used cars because you waste so much money on a new car. I would prefer to go with a known brand over Tesla and I always like to generally get in on the 2nd or 3rd gen of things but the Tesla definitely proves that this is a workable model for a lot of people.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
That's nice but it has nothing to do with your original comment.
I may not fully agree with their takes but the average new car price is hitting the high $38,000. Canada is showing similar numbers. Not to forget that there are other actors making vehicles at a lower price range available. And used market being very good for EV.

Um, some really loaded kia's start at 20k dude..... there's a lot of new cars that are 20k and under.

So no, your analogy is shit and I know a ton of people who can't afford a fucking $35k vehicle
What a Kia Rio? That is the only fully loaded model you are getting at that price. Which I may add is definitely not what you would envision as fully loaded. I should know.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 8901

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,522
Yeah the base Model 3 is like $53K in Canada and I definitely would not want an RWD car in Ontario winters. For comparison, $53K is about what it costs to buy a BMW 4 Series / Audi A5 in Canada. So no, a Model 3 is in no way affordable.
 

Keyouta

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,195
Canada
I live 450km from the big city, so no, I won't get an electric car until I have charging stations and enough range to do so, at a reasonable price.
 

Ensorcell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,452
I may not fully agree with their takes but the average new car price is hitting the high $30,000. Canada is showing similar numbers. Not to forget that there are other actors making vehicles at a lower price range available. And used market being very good for EV.
That really changes nothing about the poster''s take or about the reality of the situation. Eventually sure, the infrastructure will be in a better place but being snide about people choosing not to right now just screams naivete and/or privilege.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
That really changes nothing about the poster''s take or about the reality of the situation. Eventually sure, the infrastructure will be in a better place but being snide about people choosing not to right now just screams naivete and/or privilege.
So are you saying that you do not disagree with them but just do not like the way it was said?

The funniest thing about all this is the constant "range anxiety" that the everyday consumer has compared to Amazon, FedEx, local public transportation and Wal-Mart that plans to do 6-8 hours a day deliveries with these vehicles non-stop.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
A notable issue in the path of electric car market penetration in North America is the poor current. Sure, you can combine two 120 V phases to get 240 V, but it's inefficient: rewiring and special plugs are required to get the 240 A 30 A needed for reasonably decent domestic charging. A European household gets 230 V without necessarily having to rewire anything (just needs to make sure the existing wiring can sustain the power draw); and 400 V is always an option (at least for those Europeans who live in an individual housing unit).
 

Ensorcell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,452
So are you saying that you do not disagree with them but just do not like the way it was said?

The funniest thing about all this is the constant "range anxiety" that the everyday consumer has compared to Amazon, FedEx, local public transportation and Wal-Mart that plans to do 6-8 hours a day deliveries with these vehicles non-stop.
I'm saying they are suggesting something that is not practical for a very large number of people. Agreeing or disagreeing has nothing to do with it since that's just the way it is.
 

Katamari

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,125
I bought a Honda Clarity Touring. It's a PHEV. It came down to $24.5k after all taxes, fees and rebates. It's possible to get one for $21k.

A lot of people like me aren't ready to go full electric based on their needs or ability to. It is still expensive, but PHEVs can be a cheaper and easier solution to being more environmentally-conscious. I recommend looking into them if you aren't ready for full electric.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
Tabris did mention a good point earlier too.

Here are some options for new cheap EV's as options. Remember these are 2020 models, US Pricing, and don't include vehicles not released yet such as Kandi or anything from 2035. Still the majority are under the average sale price.
1. Mini Cooper SE $30750
2. Nissan Leaf $32535
3. Hyundai Ioniq Electric $34000
4. Chevy Bolt EV $37495

The link also includes Luxury and Hybrid vehicles.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,235
Tabris did mention a good point earlier too.

Here are some options for new cheap EV's as options. Remember these are 2020 models, US Pricing, and don't include vehicles not released yet such as Kandi or anything from 2035. Still the majority are under the average sale price.


The link also includes Luxury and Hybrid vehicles.

North American drivers need to start feeling comfortable with cars this size to get EV prices down too:

2019_Renault_Clio_Iconic_TCE_1.0_Front.jpg


2932.png


And give up their hard on for big size cars.
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,285
I may not fully agree with their takes but the average new car price is hitting the high $38,000. Canada is showing similar numbers. Not to forget that there are other actors making vehicles at a lower price range available. And used market being very good for EV.

What a Kia Rio? That is the only fully loaded model you are getting at that price. Which I may add is definitely not what you would envision as fully loaded. I should know.

The new K5's with wireless charging, heated and cooling seats and more were marked down at my local dealership for just over 20k this weekend.

My sisters near loaded Forte was under 20k new when I helped her pick it out.

Maybe I've just been lucky with shopping for cars new and incentives at the time
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,210
Oh yeah! With the current New car incentives and end of year sales most def price cuts abound. I was able to find a local new Leaf for $26000 without including tax incentives. Bet you could get them to knock even more off just to move it.

2020 is probably the best year to get a new car (if you need a car) since most are buying from the used market, new car sale deals are wild.

North American drivers need to start feeling comfortable with cars this size to get EV prices down too:


2932.png


And give up their hard on for big size cars.
Agreed besides the high luxury range. Since a lot of space is going to not be necessary with the physical size of batteries being smaller than current engine bays I can see a lot of shrinking. Folks will have to get used to short hoods, not every vehicle is going to have dual trunks.

I hope this company is not a scam

 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,235
Since a lot of space is going to not be necessary with the physical size of batteries being smaller than current engine bays I can see a lot of shirking.

It won't though. NA has a weird masculinity associated with size of car issue, and those that would be happy with a small car are often intimidated being in a small car due to all the big cars on the road.
 

jwhit28

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,050
Gotta get that Z06 C8 soon!
Performance cars will probably be least affected by the change to EVs. The jump in prices won't be as huge. Their buyers most likely own a home and a place to charge them. It's easy to drown out the grumbling from people against electrification with the performance numbers.

This will affect the person shopping Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas more.
 

Helmholtz

Member
Feb 24, 2019
1,131
Canada
Lol, good one, I live in Northern Ontario and can't imagine this flying. Hell, most of Canada would be very unsuitable for this as of right now. Hopefully someday.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,505
i want EVs as much as the next guy but jesus let them get cheaper and the infrastructure to be more widely available in rural areas with long drives.

Putting a date on it is how you get this done, as a statement of intent. Some car companies still aren't spending significant R&D money on this. You can't convince some companies to spend money on infrastructure without a date too.

Like in the UK, the ban date is 2030 for new cars with an exception for hyrbids till 2035.

That's more than enough time for car prices to come down and range to come even further up, and for more infrastructure.