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Nov 1, 2017
1,365
So i just finished Metro Exodus (thanks Game Pass) and because I am nothing if not an achievement whore I made a point of doing most of the side-missions and playing in a way that would get me the "good" ending. The game ended, it was all quite dramatic and of course i was curious to see how the bad ending went. Huge spoilers for the ending of Metro Exodus, you have been warned etc.

So at the end of Metro Exodus you stumble your way through an area with what the game describes as radiation levels "off the charts". Setting aside the issues with that alone the game ending kicks in after a fairly pedestrian QTE where the main character, Atryom, is all wounded and struggling to survive after getting the magical McGuffin cure to his sick love interest and so on, all fairly standard and slightly cliched stuff. Apparently a blood transfusion is enough to cure catastrophic levels of radiation sickness (wonder why this wasn't a plot point in the HBO Chernobyl series?). If you have played nice and and kept the murdering to a minimum most of your crew should survive and you are cured. Happy ending ensues. If you play it like a typical Doom FPS and murder everyone in sight or even in self defence you're likely to get the bad ending because there won't be enough crew members to provide you with precious lifesaving (and radiation curing) blood.

If you get this ending all the characters are upset and Love Interest Anna is sad and Artyom dies. Which is supposed to be played as this tragic moment and i felt... nothing. Because Artyom is a silent protagonist. I already wasn't invested in much of the plot because in all honesty the voice acting is... distractingly rough to put it nicely and the plot doesn't really go anywhere after a promising start. Maybe i'm just cold and dead on the inside but i have been invested in characters' relationships in the past. Something like say Wolfenstein's BJ & Anya i felt actual legitimate emotions for and rooted for them. The ending for Wolfenstein 2 TNC is one of those great triumphant moments that would have lost so much of the impact had BJ kept his mouth shut for the duration of his games.

I've always thought silent protagonists are kind of dumb if the game has any interest in having a plot because you get that ludicrous situation where characters just talk at you without getting a response which is the most unnatural thing ever. What is kind of baffling and somewhat unique in Artyom's case is that he isn't actually totally silent. He has a voice over in the loading screens when he narrates the journey. Which is even stranger, i always thought the whole point of a silent protag was to help the player see themselves as that character but it kind of loses the point a bit if he still gets voiced in some parts of the game. I just can't really get invested in a character that doesn't speak even if the world itself is a compelling one. Dishonored (not played 2 yet, it's next on the list) is a prime example, I fucking love the world building in that game and the characters are great apart from Corvo himself, I think i would have got sucked in even more if he was properly voiced.

Thoughts?
 

Bomblord

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 11, 2018
6,390
I don't emotionally attach to them because they are me. They have no thoughts that are not my own, they make no actions that are not mine, they are not their own person just a vehicle for me to express myself in the game world.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,590
I don't emotionally attached to them because they are me. They have no thoughts that are not my own, they make no actions that are not mine.

This.

A lot of the time Silent Protagonists aren't someone I can identify with or self insert into.

I can't self insert into a character that has player choice to actually make them my own.

(Should be noted there is a far big difference between a silent protagonist and simply a protagonist that has no voice (see Outer Worlds, Skyrim, etc...))
 

StiLteD

Member
Nov 11, 2017
810
London
I noped out of Exodus for that reason after a few hours. Irritated me massively in this one, even though it hadn't in the previous Metros. Jarred me right out of the situations they were trying to paint. Can't say I'll be coming back to it. I think that he is voiced in the mission briefs does indeed work to underline how ridiculous it is that he has nothing to say ever in gameplay, regardless of what's going on. Really baffling decision by the Devs for a named protagonist.
 

Courage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,978
NYC
OP, I was literally gonna make this same exact thread today for Astral Chain. Both that and Metro Exodus are so fixated on storytelling and events directly affecting the protagonist, but plot beats ultimately fall flat due to that lack of an emotional response and inability to connect with them. The silent protagonist always works better when something else other than the playable character being the center of the "story", or at least finds a way to reinforce their passivity than being such a major driving force of the events occurring while having to project our own feelings to them.
 
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Acquiescence

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,257
Lake Titicaca
I can't get attached to a silent protagonist because they have no personality to speak of so they don't give me a reason to care, and I don't buy into that whole self-insertion crap so I can't connect with them on that level.

A big reason really why I don't like silent protagonists in general.
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
Silent Protagonists can work when they dont talk due to character creation, too much lines, etc, but they absolutely have to at least emote. Metros Artyom is such a bad Implementation because at least on the first games, he was alone. In Exodus, however, is so fucking jarring to see multiple people talking to him (Even his damm wife) and he is just there, doing nothing, while the characters just go on talking.

Its so fucking bad. Take Final Fantasy XIV, for example, where your main character is just as important as all the NPCs around him/her, and even if your character doesnt speak a word, they emote and express emotions, gesture around and is completely integrated into the story.
 

AudioEppa

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,634
99.9% of the time, Nope. I play games for the characters by developers who are telling a story, their story. I don't do that whole " I am the character & the character is me" role-play bullshit, Because that's always a easy indication that the game is ass.
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,253
I'm sure it works for some people but silent protagonists keep becoming harder sells as graphics and motion capture and animation get better. Instead of transposing your feelings into the blank slate, feels like you are watching a blank slate. Even decisions that supposedly match your choices are slightly off because of tone, delivery, body language.
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
Do characters that make sounds but have no lines (voiced or subtitled) count as a silent protagonist?
For instance, the horse in Shadow of the Colossus, Trico from The Last Guardian.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,590
Silent Protagonists can work when they dont talk due to character creation, too much lines, etc, but they absolutely have to at least emote. Metros Artyom is such a bad Implementation because at least on the first games, he was alone. In Exodus, however, is so fucking jarring to see multiple people talking to him (Even his damm wife) and he is just there, doing nothing, while the characters just go on talking.

Its so fucking bad. Take Final Fantasy XIV, for example, where your main character is just as important as all the NPCs around him/her, and even if your character doesnt speak a word, they emote and express emotions, gesture around and is completely integrated into the story.

FFXIV also been doing good to give you more choices in cutscenes with Shadowbringers. Sure they don't change the story but you at least give to determine a bit on how your WoL acts like.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Hell yeah I can. Numerous jrpgs main characters I really cared about despite not having speaking roles.
 

monmagman

Member
Dec 6, 2018
4,126
England,UK
Artyom being silent is so dumb....it wouldn't be so bad if people didn't spend so much fucking time talking to him and then pretending like he answered them all the time,just record some fucking voice lines,they are there in between chapters anyway wtf.....so weird,lol.
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,905
Dunno if you can get attached to yourself. A silent protagonist is just an empty shell without anything in it and you can't get attached to that and the idea of a silent protagonists is that YOU are supposed to fill that void with your own persona.

I think silent protagonists have a lot in common with books. As soon as the protagonist starts talking and acts like pre-scripted character, or you see the movie adoption to a book, people will inevitably be disappointed.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,926
Well since they are me by extension a shell for the player to inhabit, I better be emotionally attached to myself!
 

Paul

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,603
Silent Protagonist (and I mean truly mute one, not like in Outer Worlds where I speak, just unvoiced) are the fucking worst and yes, Exodus was an amazing game but mute Artyom was its biggest flaw.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,211
I find silent protagonists really immersion breaking and view the game as more a theme park ride when it happens, and rarely get attached. I can't really think of one I have cared that much about. It doesn't mean its a bad game, I thought the main character in the South Park games was hilarious (and they are silent afaik) but the game sorta pokes fun at that at points.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
I was pretty invested in Isaac's story in Dead Space 1. They gave him a voice later, but that doesn't make the stuff in Dead Space 1 any less harrowing or emotionally draining...
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Oct 27, 2017
770
I feel like Artyom is a bad example to state as a silent protagonist because is 2033 and last light he talks in between loading screens and there is character development in his actions and development you see pay off In the start of the game of exodus.

While I have not beat exodus and don't know how it ends. I do care about the character the same way I cared about issac in dead space 1. These are people that have gone through some fucked up shit that neither were ever prepared for.

A character does not have to state what they think about stuff in the cases because you run the risk of the case of evil within 2 where you have the main character saying what the hell every five minutes.
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
It's impossible for me. What makes characters for me is how they react to other people and situations. Having them be non responsive just makes them an empty object.

It's why I never got into the Zelda series the way I do other fantasy games.
 

Gnorman

Banned
Jan 14, 2018
2,945
I can't buy into 'the silent character is me', I'm just controlling a shitty character that doesn't speak.
 
OP
OP
Nov 1, 2017
1,365
Do characters that make sounds but have no lines (voiced or subtitled) count as a silent protagonist?
For instance, the horse in Shadow of the Colossus, Trico from The Last Guardian.

I don't know if i could call Agro a protaganist of SotC and i sadly haven't played TLG yet. But in terms of emotional attachment I lost my shit when that thing happened to Agro The Horse. I think because while say Agro obviously doesn't talk, it responds and reacts in a way that i am expecting it to so it isn't completely jarring.

Silent Protagonists can work when they dont talk due to character creation, too much lines, etc, but they absolutely have to at least emote. Metros Artyom is such a bad Implementation because at least on the first games, he was alone. In Exodus, however, is so fucking jarring to see multiple people talking to him (Even his damm wife) and he is just there, doing nothing, while the characters just go on talking.

I think the fact the game is very consistently first person doesn't help matters because you don't see Artyom emote. I think a third person camera help a lot, i've never been too fussed about Link being the forever silent guy because depending on the game (Wind Waker!) the little guy can convey a huge amount without saying a word. I think the more the Zelda games decide to emphasise the story the less it will work, i started to find Link jarring for probably the first time in BotW because of the cutscene flashbacks he has with Zelda where again she just talks at him constantly like an insane person.

I did with Chrono Trigger.

Yeah he's one of the few silent guys i really enjoyed. That lovely sprite work helped i think.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,348
I can't. I don't care about protagonists who don't talk and I don't care about protagonists I can't see. First person "silent" protagonists aren't people to me, they're just floating cameras.
 

Jamesac68

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,375
Silent Protagonist is for when the story is about the people in the world. Voice protagonist is for when the story is about the main character. It's a storytelling tool that has to be used correctly to be effective.
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,257
Of course. Dragon Quest V, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, UNDERTALE...

I haven't played Mother 3 but I assume when you control the protag they're silent and I know people bawled at that game.
 

The Gold Hawk

Member
Jan 30, 2019
4,513
Yorkshire
Very much so.

I think what this game was really good at, more so than the first two, it was more about how the world and characters within the world react to you and your actions. Some of it was quite subtle and it should have received more credit.
 

KDC720

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,321
Exodus made Artyom a bit more expressive with his body language ala Doomguy which did help. There were also moments other characters ask him questions and he remains silent so its awkward. He still narrates the loading screens too so the gameplay silence feels even more out of place.
 

StraySheep

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,275
The endings of Persona 3 and 4 are two of the games that have made me the most emotional and they feature silent protags. 3 in particular is what you are maybe looking for.
 

Blue Ninja

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,752
Belgium
Artyom's a weird one, because he does have a voice in the loading screens but somehow freezes up around everyone else. It worked fine in Last Light, but was pretty bad in Exodus. The problem with Exodus is that its writing was just plain uninspired. All of its characters sucked.
 

Wispmetas

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,546
I can't. I'm currently playing through FF XIV and it is one of the things I don't like is that my character does not speak and only makes faces or whatever. But it's an MMO with created character so it's acceptable.
 

Buff Beefbroth

Chicken Chaser
Member
Apr 12, 2018
3,008
You know, I don't usually connect with a silent protagonist, but counter to your example I still feel really emotional about the Metro games.

I guess because everyone around you is so likeable? It's got a very sweet, optimistic tone despite the setting. Artyom also isn't entirely silent - you do get the voiced journals.

Wellp, time to replay the trilogy.
 

psilocybe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,401
I don't emotionally attach to them because they are me. They have no thoughts that are not my own, they make no actions that are not mine, they are not their own person just a vehicle for me to express myself in the game world.

I know this is the intention. But I can't project like this. And actually find a little bit on the weird side.

So no, I can't get attached to the character.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,348
I know this is the intention. But I can't project like this. And actually find a little bit on the weird side.

So no, I can't get attached to the character.

Yup. I'm in the same vein. I would not be doing the kinds of shit video game protagonists are asked to do - if I was the main character I would probably get bored very quickly and bail on the mission at hand to go do something stupid and esoteric, so it's very hard for me to feel any attachment to most silent leads.

I just never, ever feel like the protagonist is me, it always just feels like a floating camera or floating gun with no human attached to it in my mind.
 

Athrum

Member
Oct 18, 2019
1,335
I find it really hard to get attached to a silent protagonist, this is one of the things that made me quit DQ11 halfway through. If you're playing an established character and not some random generated persona I believe they should talk (kudos for Destiny 2 for bringing our characters voice back).
 

TheBryanJZX90

Member
Nov 29, 2017
3,007
The ending of Halo Reach worked for me 100%. But maybe it would have been 150% if the player character was an actual character and not a silent protagonist?
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,582
most protags were silent by default and people had no problems getting attached.


edit: ok, a few people.
 

MaverickHunterAsh

Good Vibes Gaming
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
1,389
Los Angeles, CA.
Nope, at least I can't personally. I hate silent protags. I've never bought into the whole "YOU are the hero!" shtick so many Western games tend to employ, but silent protags drag things down in Japanese games as well. As much as I'm loving Dragon Quest XI S, for example, I find it utterly impossible to give a shit about Eleven despite some of the pretty screwed up things he goes through because he doesn't react to or look like he cares a whit about anything.

The story snd character dynamics would be SO much better if Eleven had a set character/personality and wasn't just a blank slate.