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jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,659


Never before in human history have we been richer, more advanced or powerful. And yet we feel overwhelmed in the face of rapid climate change. It seems simple on the surface. Greenhouse gases trap energy from the Sun and transfer it to our atmosphere. This leads to warmer winters, harsher summers. Dry places become drier and wet places wetter. Countless ecosystems will die while the rising oceans swallow coasts and the cities we build on them.

So why don't we just like… prevent all of that? Well, it's complicated.


This video was supported by Gates Notes, the personal blog of Bill Gates, where he writes about global health, climate change, and more. Check out it out to learn more about ways the world can work together to reach zero greenhouse gas emissions:

www.gatesnotes.com

Climate and energy news and breakthroughs | Bill Gates

Bill Gates finds reasons for optimism in solving climate change by developing innovative breakthroughs to provide cheap, clean energy at scale.

Another worthwhile video from the fine folk at Kurzgesagt.

TLDW: Only way is (probably) to vote in people willing to make the necessary changes and hold the corporations responsible accountable. Any changes you enact on your personal life amount to literally nothing.
 

slider

Member
Nov 10, 2020
2,717
Yeah, I've heard that a lot before. Will still keep trying my little bit and, more importantly, vote with my wallet and, erm, vote.

Won't show this one to my kids until I've seen it!
 
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The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,121
TLDW: Only way is (probably) to vote in people willing to make the necessary changes and hold the corporations responsible accountable. Any changes you enact on your personal life amount to literally nothing.
I feel like this is kind of ignoring the fact that corporations wouldn't continue their actions if they became unprofitable. Yeah, they've tried to pass the buck onto the consumer with penny ante bullshit that doesn't make a real dent. But acting as though these corporations are doing what they're doing for no discernable reason as opposed to the fact we keep paying them to do it is just passing the buck even further along.
 

Laephis

Member
Jun 25, 2021
2,566
I have solar panels, drink oat milk, and bike to work. I'm not trying to "fix" climate change, I'm trying to show governments and corporations there's a market for products and actions that promote positive environmental impact.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
14,651
I have solar panels, drink oat milk and bike to work. I'm not trying to "fix" climate change, I'm trying to show governments and corporations there's a market for products and actions that promote environmental change.
Definitely. The personal actions themselves dont accomplish much on the overall climate scale, but an accumulation of personal actions changes the culture and pivots companies toward where profits are to be made
Make it profitable and they will come
That's why so many restaurants and fast food joints have vegetarian/vegan options now, because enough people decided to eat less/no meat and companies decided to chase those vegetarian profits
That's why hybrid/electric is becoming so hot across the brands, because enough people went for the few options that were available and now the rest want a piece of that pie
Personal actions matter quite a bit, but moreso for how they motivate the corporations than for their own environmental impact
Corporations will chase the money wherever it goes, and they'll do that faster than the laws will change
So do both (to your ability/situation), direct the market by voting with your wallet, while voting to get the right people/causes into government
 
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Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,919
Fantastic video, I was just about to post it myself

I have solar panels, drink oat milk, and bike to work. I'm not trying to "fix" climate change, I'm trying to show governments and corporations there's a market for products and actions that promote positive environmental impact.
Yeah that's kind of what the video suggests doing at the end. IF you are privileged enough to have the money to invest in these things while they are expensive, then do so.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,524
They are right, which makes the fact that our political theatre is run by actual loonies all the more depressing. It's hard to stay energized about systematic change when you look at what's going on in Florida on a daily basis.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,875
Metro Detroit
I have solar panels, drink oat milk, and bike to work. I'm not trying to "fix" climate change, I'm trying to show governments and corporations there's a market for products and actions that promote positive environmental impact.
Yea exactly, for example if more people joined us in biking more, municipalities would make biking safer and more appealing to others rather than organizing everything around cars.

If the solution at a big scale is voting for change I am not particularly hopeful that will happen.
Biden is more talk than action on climate change, and let's just assume he stays in office for two terms, we will not unlikely get a republican back in office thereafter (or if we're lucky another centrist Dem who is a damp squib on climate) whose priorities are unlikely to include climate justice, so that's another two terms wasted...
 

Darren Lamb

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,833
Fantastic video, I was just about to post it myself


Yeah that's kind of what the video suggests doing at the end. IF you are privileged enough to have the money to invest in these things while they are expensive, then do so.

Yeah I watched the video expecting to disagree with it based on the summaries here, but I definitely agree with its conclusion. The sum of all of our personal decisions matters a ton, even if each personal decision doesn't move the needle.
 

Nude_Tayne

Member
Jan 8, 2018
3,672
earth
Without watching the video (yet), no shit. Putting the burden of fixing climate change on individuals is essentially trying to herd billions of cats. Governments and corporations are responsible, not the people.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,872
But if I unplug my TV when I'm not using it and don't run the water while I shave that will probably buy the earth a couple extra years right
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,061
TLDW: Only way is (probably) to vote in people willing to make the necessary changes and hold the corporations responsible accountable. Any changes you enact on your personal life amount to literally nothing.

Exactly. We're literally in a life-or-death situation. The right and the corporates have waged a war of annihilation on you and your families for profit. Choosing not to do anything is basically being a deer in headlights.

Consistent and aggressive activism towards lawmakers and corpos is a good first step and progress IS being made. We can always get personal with the individuals running the war - figuratively spark another French-style revolution. They have names and addresses after all.

Fighting is never gonna be easy, but what's harder is trying to survive the next decade if we give up.
 

Klotera

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,550
I have solar panels, drink oat milk, and bike to work. I'm not trying to "fix" climate change, I'm trying to show governments and corporations there's a market for products and actions that promote positive environmental impact.

It's really not just (or at all) a matter of showing that there's a market for it. A lot of cities don't have the infrastructure for people to safely bike to work. Solar panels have an initial cost that we can't expect a lot of people to take on. Clean energy needs to happen at the source. Even food production is motivated as much by subsidies as it is by the consumer market. Every one of these things needs government intervention to make work at scale, which means we need leadership that believes in climate change and will hold corporations accountable, while investing in the needed infrastructure.

Some may point to the increasing corporate investment in electric vehicles, but that's driven as much by increasing mileage standards than the actual consumer market. The ev/hybrid market is still very small compared to regular vehicles. That's not even getting to the point that most of us will still be using fossil fuels to charge these vehicles until more fundamental changes happen to our energy infrastructure, which is going to have to come from government mandates.

Not saying don't do it, but it's not moving the needle with corporations or governments. Corporations will do whatever they can get away with and politicians that already don't support climate initiatives won't change their mind because they see a market for it. They have big donors making sure they don't. We have to replace them with leaders that do believe in it.
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,521
Here's the reality, Is mankind is a reaction race. We're not going to make changes for the long term future until an event crisis happens. We can pull up all the scientific documents and facts in front of people and at least half of the population will claim it as false information.

When finally shit hits the fan in the next few decades, Half of the population wants to blame each other but the problem itself.

This is why we always have constant wars.. I have a feeling that we're gonna be in constant wars all over the World when climate change really hits the countries hard.

You will see either military control by force or Corporations willing to pay military personnel enough money to protect themselves and their resources.

We can all hope for the best and maybe try to vote people in, But as long as the population other side disagrees, Worldwide is just going to be a sitting duck until It's too late.
 

Wari Oman

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 2, 2021
1,586
Definitely. The personal actions themselves dont accomplish much on the overall climate scale, but an accumulation of personal actions changes the culture and pivots companies toward where profits are to be made
Make it profitable and they will come
That's why so many restaurants and fast food joints have vegetarian/vegan options now, because enough people decided to eat less/no meat and companies decided to chase those vegetarian profits
That's why hybrid/electric is becoming so hot across the brands, because enough people went for the few options that were available and now the rest want a piece of that pie
Personal actions matter quite a bit, but moreso for how they motivate the corporations than for their own environmental impact
Corporations will chase the money wherever it goes, and they'll do that faster than the laws will change
So do both (to your ability/situation), direct the market by voting with your wallet, while voting to get the right people/causes into government

Exactly, great posts.
 

jkh33

Member
Oct 25, 2017
84
Definitely. The personal actions themselves dont accomplish much on the overall climate scale, but an accumulation of personal actions changes the culture and pivots companies toward where profits are to be made
Make it profitable and they will come
That's why so many restaurants and fast food joints have vegetarian/vegan options now, because enough people decided to eat less/no meat and companies decided to chase those vegetarian profits
That's why hybrid/electric is becoming so hot across the brands, because enough people went for the few options that were available and now the rest want a piece of that pie
Personal actions matter quite a bit, but moreso for how they motivate the corporations than for their own environmental impact
Corporations will chase the money wherever it goes, and they'll do that faster than the laws will change
So do both (to your ability/situation), direct the market by voting with your wallet, while voting to get the right people/causes into government

Totally Agree
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
TLDW: Only way is (probably) to vote in people willing to make the necessary changes and hold the corporations responsible accountable. Any changes you enact on your personal life amount to literally nothing.
Let's not be hypocritical, and also try to improve our own instead of just putting all the effort somewhere else. if you care about climate change, and then just not change your behavior, who cares about that person?
 

TRV

Member
Nov 27, 2020
267
The Netherlands
Definitely. The personal actions themselves dont accomplish much on the overall climate scale, but an accumulation of personal actions changes the culture and pivots companies toward where profits are to be made
Make it profitable and they will come
That's why so many restaurants and fast food joints have vegetarian/vegan options now, because enough people decided to eat less/no meat and companies decided to chase those vegetarian profits
That's why hybrid/electric is becoming so hot across the brands, because enough people went for the few options that were available and now the rest want a piece of that pie
Personal actions matter quite a bit, but moreso for how they motivate the corporations than for their own environmental impact
Corporations will chase the money wherever it goes, and they'll do that faster than the laws will change
So do both (to your ability/situation), direct the market by voting with your wallet, while voting to get the right people/causes into government
This! And the same goes for politics, culture decides what politicians will and can do. No one is going to burn their fingers trying to enforce a meat tax for example, if everyone eats meat 7 days a week. You need a support base for progressive measures, which can be helped greatly by many individual actions.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
Make me President of the World, give me a remit to do anything plus all the nukes & guns and I'd have us all on a path to a cleaner, greener world in no time.

It wouldn't be pretty tho.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
I have solar panels, drink oat milk, and bike to work. I'm not trying to "fix" climate change, I'm trying to show governments and corporations there's a market for products and actions that promote positive environmental impact.

Definitely. The personal actions themselves dont accomplish much on the overall climate scale, but an accumulation of personal actions changes the culture and pivots companies toward where profits are to be made
Make it profitable and they will come
That's why so many restaurants and fast food joints have vegetarian/vegan options now, because enough people decided to eat less/no meat and companies decided to chase those vegetarian profits
That's why hybrid/electric is becoming so hot across the brands, because enough people went for the few options that were available and now the rest want a piece of that pie
Personal actions matter quite a bit, but moreso for how they motivate the corporations than for their own environmental impact
Corporations will chase the money wherever it goes, and they'll do that faster than the laws will change
So do both (to your ability/situation), direct the market by voting with your wallet, while voting to get the right people/causes into government

dingdingding. My SO and i share a (small, fuel efficient) car and we ride it like .... a grand total of 50 times a year. (rest is bike only)
We're both vegetarians (i'm a tiny bit less strict, i.e. if the nephews don't finish their Salami, i'll eat it...), have replaced animal products as much as we can (cheese and eggs, man... can't really let those go yet).

And i'll do my best to also raise my children (1 on the way...) in a way that keeps them modest and they don't confuse consumerism with self-fulfilment. I personally was raised in a much more 'modest' way. Like, our family's financially relatively well off, but we don't flaunt any of it; and live well below our means. And I'll do my best to pass that down to my children.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,341
America




TLDW: [Only way is (probably) to vote in people willing to make the necessary changes and hold the corporations responsible accountable. Any changes you enact on your personal life amount to literally nothing.


Oh! Well thanks Kurzgesagt! Glad to see y'all saying exactly what I've been saying for years. Now I can just link to their video instead of relying on people's ability to recognize my terse wisdom for what it is.

Yeah I'm getting solar and an electric vehicle, but that won't make a dent. Tax GhG.
Tax pollutants.
We should have half the world's cops policing illegal emissions. Not the toothless EPA and certainly no more settling. Eye popping, business cratering fines and prison terms please.
 

Plywood

Does not approve of this tag
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,079
TLDW: Only way is (probably) to vote in people willing to make the necessary changes and hold the corporations responsible accountable. Any changes you enact on your personal life amount to literally nothing.
This always seemed obvious to me.
 

Deleted member 2779

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,045
I'm not watching a video on climate changed sponsored through a billionaire, especially if it suggests the best you can do is vote.

How's that going for the U.S. though, lemme check.
www.reuters.com

Biden administration to resume drilling auctions in setback to climate agenda

The Biden administration announced plans on Tuesday to open millions of acres for oil and gas exploration as the White House sought to comply with a court order requiring it to resume lease auctions.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,035
Oh! Well thanks Kurzgesagt! Glad to see y'all saying exactly what I've been saying for years. Now I can just link to their video instead of relying on people's ability to recognize my terse wisdom for what it is.

Yeah I'm getting solar and an electric vehicle, but that won't make a dent. Tax GhG.
Tax pollutants.
We should have half the world's cops policing illegal emissions. Not the toothless EPA and certainly no more settling. Eye popping, business cratering fines and prison terms please.

That's not actually what the video says at all. Yes in the grand scheme of things your personal carbon footprint won't amount to anything but that doesn't mean change on a personal level won't achieve anything. As the video says the only way to get out of this is to influence those in charge who can make big changes. What bigger way to influence this then by making changes? Drive your care less, ride your bike more, eat less meat, choose green energy do all these things and show companies and governments we actually want change. Yes voting and protesting is also important but we need to act as well.

I also say this every time but lets stop pretending that it's an either or situation. The people doing the most on a personal level are also the same people fighting for change on a larger scale, if anything being involved in the cause makes you want to be more proactive.
 

Moosichu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
898
For my money I would say that Hank Green's videos are both more informative and provide useful information as to which policies should be advocated for.

1: Why personal action in an emergency isn't bad actually - especially if you want to help effect pol

youtu.be

Wrong on the Internet

I think we need to interface with the climate crisis like it is an emergency and taking personal action is a great way to both have a small impact on the wor...

2: OK, so you want to advocate for policies to help combat climate change? What are some possible options that need to be lobbied for?

youtu.be

How We Fix the Climate

We should act as if this is an emergency, because it is. But part of that is understanding the tools and strategies countries are using to decarbonize and st...

the problem with the video in the OP is that it's way to vague on which policies are needed - which makes it less helpful than it could otherwise be.

Also some of the video is nonsense "non-capitalist economies haven't fixed climate change", I don't disagree with the conclusion that point implies necessarily, but there aren't any manor non-capitalist economies on the planet right now! So it's just a non-argument.
 

Praxis

Sausage Tycoon
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,246
UK
I'm going to watch the nuke going off in a city video to cheer myself up

Love their channel
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
I feel like these types of talking points are much more about making people feel better about their own actions and the fact that they don't want to inconvenience their own lifestyle than it is to send any type of pragmatic message. Legislation isn't coming unless people show that it's something they actually want, and not something that will cause them to vote out the people who wrote up the legislation.

We have to kill animal agriculture anyways because our current medical and economic system can't handle all the diseases that meat eating and animal agriculture are linked to.

Going vegan or buying more energy effecient/'green products is the same concept as voting, sure your one vote almost certainly isn't going to be the deciding factor, but it still needs to be done.
 

Maccix

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,251
Germanys biggest YouTube channel coming out with a YouTube video that's pretty much about voting on politicians and parties that take steps on climate change a few days before our general election. I love that they did it, but it's something to keep in mind.
 

Pellaidh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,178
Love that this focuses a lot on the colonial aspect of climate change. Rich nations (and their rich populations) demanding that less well off economies rapidly pull away from the very same polluting industries that made the rich countries rich in the first place is not the correct approach to solving climate change. Especially when the rich countries themselves barely do anything despite having way more money.

It's also interesting to me that the video says "there's no reason that profit interests couldn't match the need to reduce carbon emissions", because a lot of stuff I've read about transportation and urban planning in the past year supports just that. Mainly that car infrastructure is incredibly expensive and impossible to make profitable without gigantic government subsidies, so cities should focus more on alternative modes of transportation such as walking, cycling, and mass public transport. And the video even acknowledges that the carbon cost of building car-centric infrastructure is much greater than the cost of actually driving on it.

Sadly the video kind of consistently subconsciously undermines this point throughout with its focus on electric vehicles which solve nothing about the required underlying infrastructure while alternative forms of transport are completely ignored. A small point, but the stuff about urban planning has made me think of just how much cars are seen as the only acceptable form of transport these days, and this video is just one small example of how pervasive this sort of thinking is even when you're talking about how to solve climate change.

It's also a weird coincidence for me to see this today, when on my bike commute a car dangerously and illegally overtook me all so they could save 0.5 seconds on their journey (there was literally a red light 50 meters in front). Which got me thinking how many other cyclists this particular driver will do this to, and how many of them will switch from cycling to driving a car so that they don't put themselves in danger every single day. And how many other drivers will see this sort of poor driving, think it's acceptable, and start emulating it. All of this together probably still adds to nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's important to remember that your actions, even small ones you might not even think about, don't just effect you in isolation. They also have a drastic effect on the people around you.

Although ultimately, even voting can only do so much, especially if you don't live in a global superpower. For example, my country is currently in the planning process of expanding our nuclear power plant, which would massively help with cutting emissions. However, there is already strong political opposition to the planned construction from a neighboring country, which is something I and everyone else living here has zero political control over.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
But what if my child is the chosen one, raised by my devout environmental principles and taught to use the recycling bins correctly from a young age and they make a breakthrough in carbon capture before they're 30 and the earth melts?
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,704
Siloam Springs
I feel like these types of talking points are much more about making people feel better about their own actions and the fact that they don't want to inconvenience their own lifestyle than it is to send any type of pragmatic message. Legislation isn't coming unless people show that it's something they actually want, and not something that will cause them to vote out the people who wrote up the legislation.

We have to kill animal agriculture anyways because our current medical and economic system can't handle all the diseases that meat eating and animal agriculture are linked to.

Going vegan or buying more energy effecient/'green products is the same concept as voting, sure your one vote almost certainly isn't going to be the deciding factor, but it still needs to be done.

I think we need to do both, because not all people are going to fight their psyche and do the right thing. So we'll also have to utilize the levers of power and lead the way by example in our personal lives (however we can afford to do so).
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,976
The biggest problem I keep coming back to is that electorates react incredibly negatively to economic downturns, and there's no way to pivot the economy we have hard enough quick enough without kicking off at a minimum a recession. You can't do it in four years, you can't just tank entire industries while propping up others, if you don't give it a decade or two to settle out there's going to be massive disruption that people do feel in their daily lives and then no matter how you message it, they're going to vote you out of office. I don't know. I don't know how you fix this. I don't know how we propagandize the fight against climate change the way we did (in the US) around the sacrifices and rationing that WWII required
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,621
Texas
This reminds me of the (in my opinion) super dumb take I recently heard from Just Have A Think (which is normally pretty great) that goes something like this: "corporations want you to think that you can't have an impact and that they are the ones that need to change to fix things, that way you won't do anything at all and the climate will get worse."

Like, yeah, corporations love their propaganda and lie a lot to influence consumer behavior etc, but "destroy the world" isn't like on their list of quarterly goals. None of them intentionally want to harm the world, they simply don't care either way. In fact, he's got it backwards considering there's documented evidence that corporations are actively making consumers think they have the power to turn things around when in fact we'd all collectively make a small dent at best. It's been going on since the plastics consortium tricked everyone into thinking they needed to solve "littering".
 

fertygo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,567
Mankind is done within 50-100 year, before it reset million year later maybe. I already accept that.
 

Kadey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,672
Southeastern PA
We cannot change the inevitable but we can adapt and put things in place to make any transitions. Or many of us can deny it happening and only give a shit about ourselves and not future humanity. There are way more of the latter than the former unfortunately.
 

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
8,403
I'm not watching a video on climate changed sponsored through a billionaire, especially if it suggests the best you can do is vote.

How's that going for the U.S. though, lemme check.
www.reuters.com

Biden administration to resume drilling auctions in setback to climate agenda

The Biden administration announced plans on Tuesday to open millions of acres for oil and gas exploration as the White House sought to comply with a court order requiring it to resume lease auctions.
I mean, if you're gonna vote for the guy who consistently said he wasn't going to ban fracking, then you're going to get what you get vote for

The point is to vote for less shitty candidates
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,695
Without watching the video (yet), no shit. Putting the burden of fixing climate change on individuals is essentially trying to herd billions of cats. Governments and corporations are responsible, not the people.
Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner! The solution, as was stated in the video, is to focus on the big emitters and force them to change via legislation and subsidizing/incentivizing investment in technologies that don't emit greenhouse gases.
 

AdamE

3D Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,050
Japan
Yeah it's a bit vague, and sponsored by Bill Gates, so that explains it all really.
 

Astronut325

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
Los Angeles, CA
I've asked this in just about every climate thread here:
People, especially on forums and social media, very strongly believe that it's in the hands of corporations and the governments of the world. Let me ask you… we know the solutions to this problem. Ban meat, dairy, ban fossil fuel transports, ban fossil fuel electricity generation, and have the externalities be priced into economy (PS5 costing $2K USD, iPhones costing $5K USD). How many people will vote for a political party/candidate that pushes for the true solutions? How long would such a party/candidate retain power?
 
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Nov 7, 2017
5,084
I've asked this in just about every climate thread here:
People, especially on forums and social media, very strongly believe that it's in the hands of corporations and the governments of the world. Let me ask you… we know the solutions to this problem. Ban meat, dairy, ban fossil fuel transports, ban fossil fuel electricity generation, and have the externalities be priced into economy (PS5 costing $2K USD, iPhones costing $5K USD). How many people will vote for a political party/candidate that pushes for the true solutions? How long would such a party/candidate retain power?
Lol no one will vote for that not a chance in hell
 

shazrobot

Member
Oct 28, 2017
882
I've asked this in just about every climate thread here:
People, especially on forums and social media, very strongly believe that it's in the hands of corporations and the governments of the world. Let me ask you… we know the solutions to this problem. Ban meat, dairy, ban fossil fuel transports, ban fossil fuel electricity generation, and have the externalities be priced into economy (PS5 costing $2K USD, iPhones costing $5K USD). How many people will vote for a political party/candidate that pushes for the true solutions? How long would such a party/candidate retain power?
I mean most of the things that you mention are not going to happen ever. Maybe that was your point though? Revolution now or something?
 

Min

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,073
I feel like these types of talking points are much more about making people feel better about their own actions and the fact that they don't want to inconvenience their own lifestyle than it is to send any type of pragmatic message. Legislation isn't coming unless people show that it's something they actually want, and not something that will cause them to vote out the people who wrote up the legislation.

Exactly. Collective action to oust governments and corporations to make impactful change is not going to happen when everyone shirks off the issue stating it's not their fault. Organize. Protest. Practice what you demand and preach. Otherwise you're complacent and complicit.
 
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Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
I've asked this in just about every climate thread here:
People, especially on forums and social media, very strongly believe that it's in the hands of corporations and the governments of the world. Let me ask you… we know the solutions to this problem. Ban meat, dairy, ban fossil fuel transports, ban fossil fuel electricity generation, and have the externalities be priced into economy (PS5 costing $2K USD, iPhones costing $5K USD). How many people will vote for a political party/candidate that pushes for the true solutions? How long would such a party/candidate retain power?

Exactly.

For the past 150 years humanity has been living in a "CONSUME" mode. Giving up that way of living over night is not going to happen sadly.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
The thread about the EU introducing a standard for chargers shows how little people want to be impacted by pro environment initiatives. And as long as that is the case, good luck getting companies to act. Their fanboys do the work.
 

Astronut325

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
Los Angeles, CA
Ok, I just watched the video. I do agree with what it is saying. That individual changes themselves might not amount to much without major systemic changes. The problem, however, is that people DON'T want the system changes because it would mean very significant lifestyle changes. Changes that would lead to discomfort or regression. The video talks about this, but it's just briefly mentioned. People have to want these changes, and accordingly push for politics that will implement such changes.

Even on this forum, there was a poll a few years ago asking who here would give up meat consumption. And something like 90% said no. So what government is going to seek out meat reduction policies?

Even on this forum, a liberal bastion/beacon of progressive values, most people can't be bothered to consider EVs or alternative transport. So what government is going to start tearing up roads and build out alternative transport?

If you want government to make the big changes, the people have to WANT the big changes. And that just isn't happening. In no way I'm implying that it's on the individual, but without grassroots support, we're heading for 3-4C increase in global mean temperature rise.

Edit:
Yeah... even here... very few seem to care.
qfnM41T.png

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