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Can someone please explain why the Sonic the Hedgehog-franchise is still alive?
- Thread starter Garou
- Start date
06 felt way worse than SA2 Sonic , it might have Adventure DNA. But the game was worse in so many aspects. The same shit with Shadow too. Idk wtf is up with the controls suddenly feeling so loose.
Those two games feels like they were trying to make Sonic look "Faster" so they just turned up the speed at which he moves while giving no thought to how bad and slippery the whole thing feels.
If someone who has never played these games before gives them a try they will say SA2 feels better to control than 06/Shadow. Heroes feels somewhere midway between 06 and SA2.
Edit:
Another thing is the controller. Although Maybe its just me But I feel like SA2 feels a bit better on the weird Dreamcast controller than it does on anything modern. Same way how I like how RE4 feels better on GC than any of the modern controller.
Just curious, do you have a source for that?
Sonic 2006 was a failure at everything it tried to do, DNA or no, it's not really comparable to the Adventure titles IMO.
It's like saying the classics are bad because Sonic 4 was atrocious.
I don't think that's real, the game tilded sonic world adventure was unleashed and it still is in some areas of the world.
We'll never really get a real shot at an improved Adventure formula. Because Sega seems convinced at trying random new ideas than polishing old ones.
If Mania hadn't come along. This would have been the majority's opinion btw.
There was plenty of " Sonic was never good " going around , heck even now.
If Mania hadn't come along. This would have been the majority's opinion btw.
There was plenty of " Sonic was never good " going around , heck even now.
Google knows why
Sonic is very popular character.
You are comparing Sonic as a series to Mario as a character. Change both to a series or fictional characters and the results are quite different. Unless this is a "meme".
Sure. It's not entirely disingenuous. That goes without saying. But it's pretty dull, isn't it? It's pretty easy. Most Sonic discourse is effectively the same sledgehammer "you are objectively wrong and I am better than you" drivel that plagues almost all gaming discussion, but aimed at a resolutely easy target. A series that's fun to put the boots into because lol pregnant Sonic. It's tiresome. People get their jollies out of giving the series this scathing scrutiny because it's incredibly easy.
Yeah, they're bad. Secret Rings is probably the worst Sonic game I've played as I feel it's fundamentally broken at its very core; the controls barely function. '06 is a pretty good example of what I'm saying; it's a mess, but you'd think it killed a kid or something the way people carry on.
Everything about Sonic 06 was an unmitigated disaster barring the music. Comparing the two Adventure games with Sonic 06 is a nonstarter because whatever surface similarities they do have are mere footnotes compared to 06 simply being an incomplete and unplayable debacle of an (un-)finished product.
You know what else is killing it? That this comparison is using BLUE for Mario and RED for Sonic. I know it's not your fault but good grief.You did that incorrectly. You compared Series to Character.
However, Sonic is KILLING IT in Russia. So kudos there.
metacritic scores:
sonic advance: 87
sonic advance 2: 83
sonic advance 3: 79
sonic rush: 82
sonic rush adventure: 78
sonic colors ds: 79
each one of these games sold at least 500k and were partially responsible for the brand staying alive in this time. i think the crowd that came in during sonic advance is the current sonic fandom that's probably in their early-mid 20s. they would have watched sonic x while the original fans had the 90s cartoons.
sega's also done a pretty good job of keeping the franchise around. sonic mega collection and the ports from dreamcast to gamecube were pretty important in expanding the 90s sonic into the new decade too.
that run from 2002 to 2010 saw six solid handheld releases, and popular entries on the wii. sonic and the secret rings and sonic colors did really well on the platform, and black knight and sonic unleashed did well too. ps2 also saw a strong level of success with mega collection, heroes, and unleashed.
it was really the ps3 and 360 where the series struggled. i think if you were a fan and you only had those platforms, you would have only seen the worst and most mediocre releases until sonic generations. and then if you had a ps4 or xb1, the series would have been legally dead with nothing there until sonic mania. that stretch from 2012 to 2017 really was the worst with the three boom games, two lost world games, and sonic forces. usually there would be some smaller title to pick up the slack - a much lesser version of mania every other year, but in that time there wasn't. dimps stopped making their own sonic games with lost world 3ds.
sonic advance: 87
sonic advance 2: 83
sonic advance 3: 79
sonic rush: 82
sonic rush adventure: 78
sonic colors ds: 79
each one of these games sold at least 500k and were partially responsible for the brand staying alive in this time. i think the crowd that came in during sonic advance is the current sonic fandom that's probably in their early-mid 20s. they would have watched sonic x while the original fans had the 90s cartoons.
sega's also done a pretty good job of keeping the franchise around. sonic mega collection and the ports from dreamcast to gamecube were pretty important in expanding the 90s sonic into the new decade too.
that run from 2002 to 2010 saw six solid handheld releases, and popular entries on the wii. sonic and the secret rings and sonic colors did really well on the platform, and black knight and sonic unleashed did well too. ps2 also saw a strong level of success with mega collection, heroes, and unleashed.
it was really the ps3 and 360 where the series struggled. i think if you were a fan and you only had those platforms, you would have only seen the worst and most mediocre releases until sonic generations. and then if you had a ps4 or xb1, the series would have been legally dead with nothing there until sonic mania. that stretch from 2012 to 2017 really was the worst with the three boom games, two lost world games, and sonic forces. usually there would be some smaller title to pick up the slack - a much lesser version of mania every other year, but in that time there wasn't. dimps stopped making their own sonic games with lost world 3ds.
Wouldn't that just bring home the point of Mario wearing that color better ;)
Is Sonic even actually popular among furries ? I rarely see a Sonic outfit or something ( outside of memes ). It mostly seems like random animal outfits of different colors with a very different style. Am sure there are fans , but I highly doubt he would be a "mascot".
I have one discord that has a lot of furries who frequents it and they all seem to chime in when you bring up Sonic, so I'd say yes. I think Sonic Team enabled them with the character creator in Forces too.
Other companies wish they were sat on the goldmine SEGA has with Sonic.
A legacy of absolutely great games spanning 3 decades.
A truly iconic main character and a number of beloved sidekicks.
A trans-media global brand of the highest quality, with particularly fantastic comics and cartoons.
An incredibly diverse fan-base spanning multiple generations.
Yeah, it's a real fucking mystery how Sonic keeps going.
What's next? "Can someone please explain why the Pokemon-franchise is still alive?" Boy, that'll take a real brain-genius to solve.
A legacy of absolutely great games spanning 3 decades.
A truly iconic main character and a number of beloved sidekicks.
A trans-media global brand of the highest quality, with particularly fantastic comics and cartoons.
An incredibly diverse fan-base spanning multiple generations.
Yeah, it's a real fucking mystery how Sonic keeps going.
What's next? "Can someone please explain why the Pokemon-franchise is still alive?" Boy, that'll take a real brain-genius to solve.
Nah, next stop isThe next stop in the saga will be this:
And while I cannot say if this is going to be good or bad, I am quite sure it won't kill the franchise either.
Most of the 3D games are solid 7/10s (no better than that, sadly) and they're kid friendly. It''s not rocket science. Kids love 7s.
I don't really think Sonic's legacy factors *too* much into it. A lot of people think Mania is the best Sonic game, which means the greatest 2D platformer of all time (S3&K) has more or less been forgotten
I don't really think Sonic's legacy factors *too* much into it. A lot of people think Mania is the best Sonic game, which means the greatest 2D platformer of all time (S3&K) has more or less been forgotten
Even more shitty trash, who the hell is buying this after the previous one??
Blatant nostalgia-cashgrab that somehow ended up being OK, but if you take away the nostalgia-factor you end up with an unmemorable experience. This game didn't create a single new Sonic-fan.
Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations had/have the best 3D speed levels in the franchise for someone to like Sonic Adventure yet call the Speed stages of Generations and Unleashed trash is almost joke level.
Dare I say Rooftop Run gives you the same level of ohh shit so this is where Sonic is now you got from the Emerald Beach stage.
And once we got to replay that in Generations we were really in for a treat.
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Sega did a good job at making a great design for it originally, and also the original games resonated with some people, even if i find them terribly unpolished and really not graceful to play. The idea of making a game about momentum is good, but i never thought they nailed the level design to complement that. Every sonic game theres some bs thats completely unfair that is made solely to stop you because they couldnt find a way to make it otherwise. Downtime in games is important, but it is way too radical in sonic. I honestly dont like any of his game besides mania.
But thats not even really the point. Sonic is a meme and a semi-relevant cartoon, which make him know in the cultural market that is today internet. Besides that, the games are not really that expensive to produce. Sure the series is not selling mario levels anymore, and probably will never come back to be on that level of respect, but it doesnt really need to. Games are profitable and merchandise sells, that is all there is to it.
But thats not even really the point. Sonic is a meme and a semi-relevant cartoon, which make him know in the cultural market that is today internet. Besides that, the games are not really that expensive to produce. Sure the series is not selling mario levels anymore, and probably will never come back to be on that level of respect, but it doesnt really need to. Games are profitable and merchandise sells, that is all there is to it.
Sonic is a very popular character and has a really passionate fanbase. a REALLY passionate one.
Honestly, I never understood the appeal of Sonic. Even the original games were quite clunky to control and definitely not on par with Mario.
Really highlights my current opinion. Right now we are in the darkest age of Sonic. People talk about the time of 06 and whatnot being the low for the franchise, but I strongly disagree. Even during that time we had multiple killer handheld titles. The Sonic Rush games were phenonenal. There was more than enough reason to still care about Sonic. We had good games to play.These days? Mania is the only bright spot. We don't get quality spinoffs regularly anymore. It's just Mania surrounded by a sea of garbage.
Mania was fantastic, the social media presence has the right level of self-awareness, there's a dedicated fanbase that puts out some awesome stuff (and is pretty inclusive compared to most), and in general the character and world designs are very solid and very flexible.
Also, the past decade hasn't been that bad. Forces ain't great but acting like it's some absolute trash fire is over-stating it, Rise of Lyric is terrible but the Boom cartoon is well regarded by everyone who saw it (and also no one played Rise of Lyric), there's a lot of counter-action. That also ties into the design being flexible - if Boom or the Movie flop, they can just ignore that design ever happened.
Could it be better? Absolutely. But it's not hard to see why it's still popular.
Also, the past decade hasn't been that bad. Forces ain't great but acting like it's some absolute trash fire is over-stating it, Rise of Lyric is terrible but the Boom cartoon is well regarded by everyone who saw it (and also no one played Rise of Lyric), there's a lot of counter-action. That also ties into the design being flexible - if Boom or the Movie flop, they can just ignore that design ever happened.
Could it be better? Absolutely. But it's not hard to see why it's still popular.
Sonic is wonderful and when it's good it's really fucking good. Also Unleashed is a pretty good game so there's also that.
for all the crap rightfully levied against the saturn not having a proper sonic game, the gap was really only four years, and the two games from sonic team at either side of that spectrum were sonic & knuckles and sonic adventure - two very popular fan-favorites. from 2013 to 2017 there was a similar gap, bookended by sonic lost world on wii u and sonic forces.
i don't even particularly dislike sonic forces. it's just unfinished and boring. lost world had some interesting concepts but dreadful pacing. both felt like unfinished products, and sega of america (atlus usa) felt it was best to sell forces for $40 with pack-ins. of course they sold sonic mania a year later with pack-ins too (and for less) but i can't help but feel like the brand took a hit as a result. sonic generations and to a lesser extent, sonic colors were treated like premium products. maybe it made sense to have sonic forces go so cheap - it was pretty short - but sonic mania probably would have been a hit as a physical release at $40. i really don't know if forces was beyond saving or not, but it felt like mania could have been a $40 game in 2017 and sonic forces could have been a $50 game in 2018.
what i really don't understand is how they could just... stop... using a good system like they had in colors, or in generations. colors was this weird mario-meet-sonic sort of game where platforming, powers, and exploration was rewarded. it was a real treat to go and get all the red rings, which in turn unlocked even more sonic levels. that could have been a great foundation for the franchise moving forward. instead they jettisoned it all for sonic generations. and sonic generations's levels were great! it generally worked out aside from the crummy pacing forced on the player with the mission structure between levels.
that could have been it though. the sonic colors line would have been the new formula for 3d sonic, and sonic generations could pop up every five years to celebrate an anniversary. i have no idea what they plan on doing now. after lost world, i thought the time they'd take to regroup would have led to something better, but they just kinda ran down the clock and rushed out an other game somehow.
Because the Sonic fan baseseems satisfied with the qualify of these games and don't demand better by not buying the newer games.
Sonic died for me the second i realized that SA was a broken game devoid of any fun and Sonic team has yet to make a proper 3D Sonic game that is anywhere near as good as the MegaDrive titles. So it's a mystery to me as well, to some extent as to why people keep buying this crap.
Mania was the closest this series came to being good again since S3&K but we might be decades removed from getting another good game in the series again.
I really wish this series was comprised of mostly good games but it's not. About 90% of it is crap.
Sonic died for me the second i realized that SA was a broken game devoid of any fun and Sonic team has yet to make a proper 3D Sonic game that is anywhere near as good as the MegaDrive titles. So it's a mystery to me as well, to some extent as to why people keep buying this crap.
Mania was the closest this series came to being good again since S3&K but we might be decades removed from getting another good game in the series again.
I really wish this series was comprised of mostly good games but it's not. About 90% of it is crap.
Google knows why
Sonic is very popular character.
LOL at this fake news.
To try and give a serious answer, even though most of you want LOL SANIC and furry jokes, is that there are good games in between, Unleashed is half a good game, Colours was great, Generations was fun (but short) but in that same time frame we also got Sonic & SEGA All Stars games which are genuinely good kart racers, even the recent Team Sonic Racing has been doing very well, those still count as Sonic games to the public.
Sonic Boom (the TV show) has done an amazing job of getting a new generation of fans on board in a similar way Sonic X did a decade before.
Yes there's shit games (and the movie is looking terrible) but it's also overblown to it being a meme itself.
Sonic Boom (the TV show) has done an amazing job of getting a new generation of fans on board in a similar way Sonic X did a decade before.
Yes there's shit games (and the movie is looking terrible) but it's also overblown to it being a meme itself.
I cant wait for us to get to the point where Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 are now for the games post that where people just handwave their problems. "Nono the gunplay in shadow is good! kickass vehicles, ambitious story, overall a good package!!"
Sonic games sell. He's a popular character that appeals to a lot of people. Sega also puts all their energy behind him. Many Sega IPs have fallen by the wayside as they have continued to push Sonic.
Also, you paint all the games after the Adventure games to be bad but they're not all bad. You also skip a ton of them.
I think you also may be thinking Era's opinion = everyone's opinion. Which is just silly.
Also, you paint all the games after the Adventure games to be bad but they're not all bad. You also skip a ton of them.
I think you also may be thinking Era's opinion = everyone's opinion. Which is just silly.
How is Sonic Colors a spin-off?
Sonic Colors sold over 2 mill, Sonic Advanced sold over 1.5 mill and Sonic advanced 2 sold over 1 mill. Try harder on your next goal post move.
Because if it's a spin off then it doesn't conflict with OP's narrative.
It's the same as the handheld games, because apparently the hardware the game runs on is one of the most defining aspects of whether or not a sonic game is a spin-off or mainline.
But Shadow the Hedgehog, now that, that isn't in any way a spin off. Despite starring a different character, having different gameplay, and screaming spin off to the high heavens, it's a mainline game because *checks notes* it's bad.
For real though I've never seen one of these "Sonic Bad" threads that doesn't omit a shit ton of games. Which is bizarre because even if you do include the good stuff, it's really not hard to make a "Sonic Bad" thread, since the franchise still has a laughable track record compared to say, Mario. And yet people still feel the need to mislead.
You mean a game that came out 10 years after Sonic Adventure 2 was better? No fucking way. The Adventure games were good for the time and they're looked on fondly. There is no "con" here just because you're bitter.
