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Can i say it? Screw white people
- Thread starter jey_16
- Start date
Yes, and?
Yes, we Europeans are very good at discriminating others. And let's not kid ourselves here, if we were standing face to face I probably couldn't tell you're "different" and vice versa. And that's the point.
When we're talking about dominantly white societies your skin colour can make you "different" by default. That's the power structure: white is the norm, other is deviation from the norm. It's another issue if you personally discriminate based on that difference or not, but that structure is always present.
Which brings me to OP. Sometimes you can say screw white people, sometimes we need to be reminded of these things.
Schools are difficult to get into. Especially public schools. It's all about who you know. The person who got the job very well may have had a friend or relative who already works at the school.
My brother, a white male, who absolutely loves teaching and is fantastic at it, took him 6 years to find a full time job. Six. Years.
My brother, a white male, who absolutely loves teaching and is fantastic at it, took him 6 years to find a full time job. Six. Years.
As a white guy, I'm sorry she had to live through that.
Unless I'm mistaken, POC here in Quebec get preferential treatment when they apply for Teaching jobs, even contractual ones.
Don't quote me, but I think that's something I heard.
Unless I'm mistaken, POC here in Quebec get preferential treatment when they apply for Teaching jobs, even contractual ones.
Don't quote me, but I think that's something I heard.
Was there anything said/done to indicate she was passed on the position based on race? Years of experience is definitely something to consider but it's only one metric in the whole equation. If there are other factors involved that do point towards denial based on race then there are avenues you can/should take to ensure that this institution is investigated and held accountable.
I've been working in the school system in NYC for a long time and I just got my license to be a principal. They usually want someone with less experience because they're cheaper with lower salary. This year they're not focusing on test scores or achievement but focusing on compliance and budgets. Not saying race doesn't have a role but salary could be an impact. Budgets play a large role and if its in the middle of the school year that there's a vacancy it sounds like they lost someone and need a replacement as a fast and cheap solution.
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You can't just say 'we're not hiring based on you being black', that'll open up the floodgates of lawsuits.
They can say' you're not a good fit for this company culture' to get around that though.
It's always interesting to me in these threads, white people run in like "I AM WHITE AND YES ABSOLUTELY!!" and then you have BIPOC saying this ain't it, but then you have other white people acting as if white people are acting fragile lol. Very bizarre.
Anyway, as a biracial guy in education, I would say connections and networking are what get you the job. School districts are likely to put those who graduated from the district or know someone ahead of those who don't. Other factors that pay play a role are the level of credentials they have (can the cover multiple subjects? Can they coach? Etc.) I completely understand your frustrations and education as a whole has a long way to go to hire and retain BIPOC staff, but I would press pause of casting accusations that race absolutely played a role. Your wife will find something better.
Edit: like someone above me said, salary also plays a role. For example, my district caps hiring people at Step 4. So they're likely to hire in cheaper employees than those with a lot of experience, as sucky as it is.
Anyway, as a biracial guy in education, I would say connections and networking are what get you the job. School districts are likely to put those who graduated from the district or know someone ahead of those who don't. Other factors that pay play a role are the level of credentials they have (can the cover multiple subjects? Can they coach? Etc.) I completely understand your frustrations and education as a whole has a long way to go to hire and retain BIPOC staff, but I would press pause of casting accusations that race absolutely played a role. Your wife will find something better.
Edit: like someone above me said, salary also plays a role. For example, my district caps hiring people at Step 4. So they're likely to hire in cheaper employees than those with a lot of experience, as sucky as it is.
Race probably had some part in the decision making as well as gender but also from my understanding schools are extraordinarily stingy and a fresh out of college grad might have been more willing to work for pennies without the experience on his resume... Another issue with this country. Capitalism.
He is evidently referring to the linear development of Western civilisation myth which is commonly-touted in right-leaning circles. "Whiteness" is a socially-constructed concept which emerged out of the Reformation, the beginning of the trans-Atlantic slave trade and era of colonial conquest and eventually crystallised in the form of race theory during the 1800s. Whiteness is the discourse of oppression endemic to the modern epoch.
Its a double edged sword. The EEOC wont force the employer to give her the job. And even if they did overturn that, the employer probably wont be too happy about it and will make her professional carreer less than enjoyable... but at the very least it'll make the employers lives hell for a little while the investigation is ongoing.
Went through a similar situation at my previous employer. Having years and years of experience plus degrees and certs. Not being offered the position and in some cases not even getting offered an interview. People coming in with no experience or degrees getting positions I should have gotten. I had people that knew about these issues willing to go to HR on my behalf. Only thing I could think of on my end was being a POC. Everyone loved me at the company and knew my work ethic and professionalism was unquestioned. It hurt but for me wasn't worth the headache. I decided to look outside of the company and found an amazing position and things really worked out. I wish the best for your wife and I hope she finds something better soon.
Could she take this to a tribunal or whatever the equivalent is in your country? There was a similar case in the UK in the last month were an experienced part-time female teacher was passed over for a full position that went to an inexperienced male candidate and it was revealed in the tribunal that one of the reasons was that he had a "strong handshake". Thankfully though she won case and will be receiving compensation at some point
www.telegraph.co.uk
*Sorry the link's from the torygraph but it's the only one not behind a paywall or mountains of ads
Male teacher chosen for job over female rival because he had 'strong handshake', tribunal hears
Vanaja Greenwood lost out to fellow candidate Neil Crossley for the role of full-time maths teacher at a ÂŁ21,000-a-year private school
www.telegraph.co.uk
*Sorry the link's from the torygraph but it's the only one not behind a paywall or mountains of ads
Me at every IT/Dev meeting at work.
Me at every meeting at work, for like, most of my professional career lmao
I'm usually the only one or the first one
Me at every IT/Dev meeting at work.
Same...right after someone I barely know me tried to quote Biggie lyrics...
Shit man, that's pretty fucking white.
You could have been on white people intervention or something.
If Era is as Era as it ever has been, a lot of people are going to be banned soon.
Absolutely agreed.
Absolutely agreed.
Yep. Black and indigenous women get it the worst.
I'll do you one better, OP: fuck white people. And any snowflakes who have a problem can fuck off too.
Ancient Greeks, like pretty much every ancient civilization viewed any civilization or culture not their own as barbarians and inferior. I wouldn't call it racism as much as it being xenophobia.
As a White woman, I agree. We don't do nearly enough to change the system. She deserved that job. Full stop.
I have not followed this thread, so this may have already been suggested: OP I think you should try to get the attention of the local media at this point. In such a clear case where your wife has much more experience and loses out just because she's a poc the people responsible should be called out.
And making these kind of issues heard and spread is one of the few things which I think can help provoke change.
And making these kind of issues heard and spread is one of the few things which I think can help provoke change.
As someone with a Principal's license, I need to see clear intent that this decision was based on race. The school could've hired someone with less experience for salary and budgetary reasons especially in a year where most school's will lose a large amount of their budgets.
I mentioned the greek because their teachings especially those from aristoteles were used to create racism as an ideology and science. But yeah what they and most other cultures practiced was ethnocentrism and not race based.
Also lmao. Clear and to the point.
I'm guessing every white person on this board will immediately agree with you OP. Due to white privilege it's very easy to say "yeah screw our race!" while knowing that such a statement doesn't actually matter because white people will continue to be just fine. It's a very appealing thing for progressive white people to say because they get to feel like they are supporting victims of racism, with no actual consequence or effort required. On the other hand people who have actually experienced racism might be the ones to hesitate about that type of statement.
I could be totally wrong but I'd be very curious to see that data.
I could be totally wrong but I'd be very curious to see that data.
You are certainly raising a good point which I haven't thought about. I guess with the information we aren't able to tell what the real deciding factor was.
But (and I myself am white) I think mostly the easiest answer is the right one. And in this case I guess it's race.
I hope for OP and his wife everything turns out for the best. I can only imagine how she feels.
I'm sorry, did we not all see the recent voting results in the US election? Or the Brexit situation?
It's warranted at this point. White people had four years to do better, and the majority failed.
It's your opinion but it's corny.
Nobody says you have to be a bigot or an antagonist but you about to sit here and pretend this type of energy doesn't come from anywhere? No historic relevance from the past or present. No current day examples that prop up the sentiment. That people don't have valid experiences that lead to a fed up worldview at some point? That white people as group make non white peoples lives hard as fuck for no reason?
Most of the thread is white and agrees without hesitation but you're extremely uncomfortable??
Totally entitled to your opinion just reads weird without elaborating further
It sucks to hear you only got your job or whatever because of what you look like. Like sorry about your wife OP but you shouldnt do that.
As a white person, fuck white people in general. Your experience may be due to racism, sexism, or a host of other circumstances though.
It absolutely sucks, but let's be honest, if this is what happened, maybe she doesn't want to work there.
Yeah was gonna say, a huge portion of this thread is cringe for this reason.
Anyway, here are absolutely valid discussions to be had with regards to discrimination against minorities when looking for jobs. We have clear proof of it from numerous studies. It's certainly possible that played a role here, and I get the frustration from OP. Your wife seems to have great credentials so I am certain she will land on her feet.
Coming from a background in education, I'm especially sorry to hear about your wife's situation, OP. I wish I had some advice to impart beyond trying to keep her head up and checking out other ISDs/institutions. I had a friend who had to move 200 miles away to get an entry position for a few years before she could move back to our town and hopefully get an elementary teaching position here. It's absolutely nuts that schools don't have the budgets to hire more and more teachers like they should. I hope your wife finds something comparable soon.
It's real easy to say 'fuck white people' if you're white, just saying.
Its a release valve for people going through it, and the 'shock value' of the title serves a good purpose to remind people that because you feel like you've done the work and aren't 'that racist guy/girl' in the story it really is never done because its systemic.
Ultimately the reason these issues continue is less about the goose stepping nazi, but people who feel that the work stops with them ('I am not racist, so hear me hit dog holla about how this is offensive') as opposed to be continually pushed and worked through. Like its been said at this point its about being actively anti-racist...pushing for diversity, questioning ourselves (on all sides, etc).
You know what's even better, getting paid while you're looking for another job
User banned (permanent): Misogyny against black women
even worst when i see my fellow black sisters (im a black male) using skin bleaching products and wear horse hair weave. Its like they hate themselves.
Sure, Absolutely. It's gonna take a lot more than like minds to solve it, it's gonna take real action
But the action usually doesn't come before a like headed mind...
I was definitely just pointing how weird it is to see someone black feel "extremely uncomfortable" about white criticism as if Global Colonial History doesn't exist and doesn't have a grasp on ALL our lives to this very second
