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Oct 27, 2017
3,780
i have a family member who told me that biden is going to bring "socialism" to america, so i pressed them and said that biden seems like a pretty run of the mill democrat to me and i dont understand how he is a socialist and they said that he is senile and he is going to be manipulated into doing it like some sort of weekend at bernies situation. i broke the conversation off there.
 
OP
OP
Rex Griswold

Rex Griswold

Member
Oct 29, 2017
221
What they are really talking about is what they're not completely self aware about. In some sense, their worldview is being 'destroyed', because reality isn't lining up with how they see things or want to see things. Part of this is due to a lot of the changes happening socially and technologically. They don't understand any of this complexity though and find people to blame when it isn't even really down to individuals or specific groups. It's all of the large sweeping changes happening that is culturally leaving them behind and causing them to deep down feel irrelevant. The thing is too, with consumer culture in capitalism, these people are used to passively receiving affirmation for who they are and have been, culturally (- mostly white), so when the cultural shifts happening now involve more active redefinition by people of colour and others, they find themselves frustrated at their lack of ability and power to mold an identity because they're used to passive affirmation by spending money to have other people provide them with definition. The other part of this is that the technology present culturally, like the internet, has been radically changing how we shape our identities and people on the right are aligning themselves with a limited hive mentality that is very basic. Hives or swarms form all over the internet, but there's more diversity to be had outside of the internet media of the right, which is very impoverished in its language and messaging. It's why their speech is basically just repeating phrases and not trying to think of original ideas or articulations.

So with a lot of these things considered, a lot of the rhetoric of the sky is falling with conservatives is close to some truth in that for decades culture has been shifting away from the limited authoritarian way they identified with. It's always the case, the right aligns more with a status quo that is ultimately impossible to maintain because it's beyond anybody's control in the long run - if humans are able they could tend towards social diversity not repression (which we're still at a very early stage with in tandem with technological developments). Unless genocide, which is why the slope is danger, potentially, with authoritarianism. In many ways, the technological landscape of media can't really support authoritarianism if its open. The right would have to bring things to China like levels of control if they really wanted to alter or slow down the cultural shifts of our time. And even then, its still a limited sovereignty in the face of the overwhelming dominance of tech and media in our lives now.

This is a wonderful breakdown. Thank you very much for the thought you've put into it, I really appreciate it.

Richard Spencer, a Neonazi, said "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" or some nonsense like that.

And this is a fantastic simplification. Thank you.
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
They realize the worsening state of the working class, yet want a comforting solution that is as simple as just electing the right person into office. Now that Trump is going away, they are being forced to acknowledge the reality that it's just not that easy.
 

SasaBassa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
Main part of it to me is that a not-insignificant portion of the people who say this are afraid minorities -once the US is majority-minority - will do to the irrationally fearful what they themselves have done to minorities.

They're afraid of frankly deserved retribution.
 

tsmoreau

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,439
It gets into very deep unspoken stuff about how people see the world. There's a real low-resolution world view thing there.

The trust in a system they gamed and had an inherent advantage in. Anyone wanna talk about real estate/home-ownership and average income over time? These people got the world's biggest windfall after ww2 and think it's the norm.

"You just weren't capitalism-ing correctly, don't you understand!?!"

Like I say, trust in a system they gamed and was aligned toward thier success. Why would they bother with the negative externalities? They got theirs.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,018
They never quite figured out that the 1st amendment protects you from getting disappeared by the government for your words, but if you're a piece of shit in public it doesn't protect you from consequences like people booting you out of the store or getting shamed
Even beyond that, the way that people treat American legal documents like religious doctrine instead of being subject to change like any other legal document is probably a way to enable abuse. Hate speech is explicitly legal in the US, which allows for some heinous shit.

People tend to become more regressive when they're afraid, so keeping people constantly afraid serves to make things constantly regressive.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,041
What I want to know is why are some of these people also saying that they need to have a sex change to avoid Persecution.

Like, I would love to see the thought process there.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,743
A lot of white people are scared they will no longer be the majority, and can't stand to see minorities in control.
 
Jan 31, 2018
1,430
A huge part of trump's base is still the white vote, a good number of whom are scared to death of the changing demographics and what it might mean to be a minority in the United States of America (oh I wonder why), hence latching onto a self proclaimed white Saviour.
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
The prevailing narrative from the boomers and right leaning people I have on my social media seems to have become "America is being destroyed and Trump was the last hope!".

I don't understand it, can anyone please break it down like I'm five? Like, what America were these people living in. Is it because rich people are going to get taxed more? Something about your 401k? Can't just be openly racist? Black and brown people are still considered humans? No wall after all?

What is this conservative utopia that Biden and Harris are about to destroy?

Just change in general. I think many of the answers here are going to put it in the most aggressive light possible. But they're getting older and the world they grew up in is shifting quickly.

"You can't say that anymore," "what you just said is racist," "I grew up with these struggles, why shouldn't they?" "I worked so hard for this, and they want to sit around and be lazy."

My theory is that conservatives are effective because they say "hey, what you're thinking is exactly right and logical. The safe world you grew up in is the right one, and you don't have to do that hard work of changing."

Mini poll for the other people who grew up religious - how many of you ever felt uneasy about social changes before? I certainly have. It's a struggle to go from "this thing is immoral" to accepting it and even fighting for it.

Many people do not win that struggle.
 

ManNR

Member
Feb 13, 2019
2,962
White people are afraid that minorities have a voice and are increasingly playing an important part in elections. Change is super scary to these folks.

This is it exactly. It is the fear of being replaced, of being found out they aren't actually the center of the world.
 

Patryn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,827
Boomers grew up in an era where Communism and Socialism were vilified more than you can imagine. So anything that gets labeled as socialist is seen as unAmerican.

In addition, I suspect what a lot of them mean is that America is becoming less "Christian", which to them is defined as the following: granting rights to minorities equal to those of whites, turning away from God and Christian "values" i.e. women going into the workplace, more "broken" families, less men being in charge of the family, gay rights, transgender rights, etc.

Basically, they envision the rose glasses vision of the United States in the 1950s a la Pleasantville, and feel that we are getting further away from that.

In fact, just watch Pleasantville. It kind of hits a lot of the high points.
 

Fathead

Member
Oct 31, 2017
777
The prevailing narrative from the boomers and right leaning people I have on my social media seems to have become "America is being destroyed and Trump was the last hope!".

I don't understand it, can anyone please break it down like I'm five? Like, what America were these people living in. Is it because rich people are going to get taxed more? Something about your 401k? Can't just be openly racist? Black and brown people are still considered humans? No wall after all?

What is this conservative utopia that Biden and Harris are about to destroy?


They might have to wear a mask, get a vaccine, and other people might get to keep their healthcare. Terrible stuff, I know.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,804
USA
White fragility just showing its whole ass. They just want complete and positive representation in government, the economy and media and fuck everyone else. They're not interested in working towards or upholding any notion of equality that is outside of white race and American Christian values in any facet of governing, economic policy or media.
 

bwahhhhh

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,162
It's white peoples' desire to live in the 50s / 60s where they in a white suburb with white neighbors and everybody has 2-3 white kids and everybody worships white Jesus Christ and the men wear ties while the work and the women wear dresses and aprons while raising children and cooking roasts and jellos at home.

and then if you want to both raise taxes on the wealthy and increase workers' wages so that they're similar to the 50s/60s environment which made common single breadwinner households like that possible, they will scream bloody murder and communism
 

Rhomega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,630
Arizona
Boomers grew up in an era where Communism and Socialism were vilified more than you can imagine. So anything that gets labeled as socialist is seen as unAmerican.

In addition, I suspect what a lot of them mean is that America is becoming less "Christian", which to them is defined as the following: granting rights to minorities equal to those of whites, turning away from God and Christian "values" i.e. women going into the workplace, more "broken" families, less men being in charge of the family, gay rights, transgender rights, etc.

Basically, they envision the rose glasses vision of the United States in the 1950s a la Pleasantville, and feel that we are getting further away from that.

In fact, just watch Pleasantville. It kind of hits a lot of the high points.

That's the thing too. The world where everyone goes to church while every single business is closed on Sunday is gone. Patriotism used to be universal. If the police shot someone, they got what they deserved. Schools started with prayer and taught from the Bible. Everyone did errands wearing suits and dresses instead of drooping pants. Elders were never disrepected. That sort of Norman Rockwell stuff.
 

Rice Eater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,816
I probably know the answer to this, but I'mma ask anyways. Before I actually started paying attention to politics in 2015, I remember hearing about the whole "King Obama" thing? Did Dems even do anything to put this in their minds or taunt them with it? Or did Republicans create this monster completely on their own?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,970
If you go to r/conservative and read some posts you'll see that these people are mostly concerned with "the libs", not just minorities (massive part of it) but also the white people in urban areas that hold progressive values. It's essentially a culture war. You'll notice how they complain about being called Nazi/Fascists constantly. Racism is exaggerated (we actually live in a post-racist World according to some of them) for political advantage.

Their justification for everything is their somehow unique "work ethic" that only they posses; self-responsibility, restraint and the "hardship" of maintaining their assets and fiscal advantage from their business or work. The liberal contributes nothing, has none of the aforementioned qualities and only takes from the state/big government.

They are also completely obsessed with their rights; uniquely American of course (Canada is just not the same for example). Not just Gun rights but the right to do whatever the fuck they want (which of course they don't have nor ever had) which the Liberal is trying to erode in order to further the agenda of political correctness which is direct opposition to their rights.

A lot of their religious motivations are overtly mentioned at times but the specific are never shared. If they feel a minority is religious/conservative for example they will often enthusiastically site them as a compatriot or an example of correct thinking (also signalling their non-racist true form!).

It's a Bizzaro World basically, it's full of contradiction and literal non-sense.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,155
Toronto
It's the same here in Canada. According to all the conservatives you see on social media, Justin Trudeau has "destroyed" Canada. It's a fucking delusion that conservatives keep feeding to each other, and it's extremely tiresome.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,684
If you go to r/conservative and read some posts you'll see that these people are mostly concerned with "the libs", not just minorities (massive part of it) but also the white people in urban areas that hold progressive values. It's essentially a culture war. You'll notice how they complain about being called Nazi/Fascists constantly. Racism is exaggerated (we actually live in a post-racist World according to some of them) for political advantage.

Their justification for everything is their somehow unique "work ethic" that only they posses; self-responsibility, restraint and the "hardship" of maintaining their assets and fiscal advantage from their business or work. The liberal contributes nothing, has none of the aforementioned qualities and only takes from the state/big government.

They are also completely obsessed with their rights; uniquely American of course (Canada is just not the same for example). Not just Gun rights but the right to do whatever the fuck they want (which of course they don't have nor ever had) which the Liberal is trying to erode in order to further the agenda of political correctness which is direct opposition to their rights.

A lot of their religious motivations are overtly mentioned at times but the specific are never shared. If they feel a minority is religious/conservative for example they will often enthusiastically site them as a compatriot or an example of correct thinking (also signalling their non-racist true form!).

It's a Bizzaro World basically, it's full of contradiction and literal non-sense.
I think a lot of this is part of the impoverishment late stage capitalism can lead to, mentally. They're consumed with an almost nihilistic sense of how meaning plays a role in their lives. They value working hard and gaining material comfort, but to what end. I imagine if one asked, they couldn't describe the meaning it gives them and would recursively loop back to 'it's meaningful because it is'. It's almost an ideology perfectly suited for being a hermit, as they essentially want to shut out the world. Conservatism and authoritarianism are anti-social.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,913
They like being racist, bigoted, and extremely privileged and they are deathly afraid of that changing (they know it is changing and are groping for a handhold, flailing about full of sound and fury signifying....cowardice). They realize when people are given their fair due, they will be shown to be the empty husks they are and so project their insecurities at every chance so they don't have to accept their shortcomings.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
The prevailing narrative from the boomers and right leaning people I have on my social media seems to have become "America is being destroyed and Trump was the last hope!".

I don't understand it, can anyone please break it down like I'm five? Like, what America were these people living in. Is it because rich people are going to get taxed more? Something about your 401k? Can't just be openly racist? Black and brown people are still considered humans? No wall after all?

What is this conservative utopia that Biden and Harris are about to destroy?

Small town / rural America has been decimated by globalism, urban flight, aging rural demographics, corporatism, etc... These forces have been in effect for decades, regardless of administration, but I think that Democrats are seen as urban and take a lot of the flack for them (e.g. Clinton + NAFTA) there's no doubt that the quality of life in many small towns is markedly declined.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,998
"I grew up with these struggles, why shouldn't they?" "I worked so hard for this, and they want to sit around and be lazy."

I've never understood how people that say things like this are also big believers in generational wealth, and saying "I don't want my kids to to endure the same things I did growing up. I want life for them to be better."

I mean, if they're being fair about this, they should be saying, "Look kid, I grew up poor, so will you too. No hand outs just because you're my progeny, you gotta' EARN this."
 

LegendofLex

Member
Nov 20, 2017
5,465
White Christians sincerely believe that their conservative religious moral views need to be reflected in society's laws or else society will break down into ungovernable chaos.

But the reality behind this is that they are used to being treated with privilege and perceive any challenge to their privilege as unfairness and ungovernable chaos.

So it's fear backed by a belief system that allows them to justify their fear.

edit: this Twitter thread is extremely insightful about how the right sees themselves vs. the left
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
(Insert any insane Qanon conspiracy here, or if one isn't available adlib the rantings of your crazed drunk uncle who spends too much time of facebook.)
 

Thisisme

Member
Apr 14, 2018
563
It is being destroyed, just not by the left. Evidence in support of this is: the gutting of the voting rights act, widespread use of gerrymandering, the blocking of valid judicial appointments, and disproportional representation due to the composition of the senate and the house reapportionment act.
 
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HeyNay

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Somewhere
Fear has a fucking grip on these people, no matter how irrational it is. It's part of the reason why the whole strength-projecting conservative strong man persona works so well on them.
 

Mavis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,476
Blue Mountains
A significant number of people born in the 1950's and 60's can't outgrow the "those damn commies are going to get us!" that they were taught as a kid. And they want to go back to the myth of a "Leave It To Beaver" America.
Added to that is the Lavender Scare that saw homosexuality considered a psychiatric illness during the same period, it led to blacklists in Hollywood for anyone who was LGBT or openly accepting of LGBT people. Pushed by McCarthyism and the religious right, this gives you the reason for the boomers fear of everyone turning Gay, it really was considered similar to a transmittable disease back then with fears of it spreading if left unchecked.

If anyone is into comics, DC did an amazing series called Exit Stage Left: The Snagglepuss Chronicles which sees Snagglepuss as a gay playwright in the 50's hiding behind a sham marriage.
 

Mr.Flufferson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
214
The people I know have basically swallowed republican propaganda and think biden is going to raise their taxes, cause them to lose their home, and take away their guns. The same fears they always have about democrats that never actually happens.
 

Kelsdesu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,468
People unable to accept responsibility for their shit lives. They blame everybody else, but in reality it's their own limited dogmatic thinking that is the problem.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,970
I think a lot of this is part of the impoverishment late stage capitalism can lead to, mentally. They're consumed with an almost nihilistic sense of how meaning plays a role in their lives. They value working hard and gaining material comfort, but to what end. I imagine if one asked, they couldn't describe the meaning it gives them and would recursively loop back to 'it's meaningful because it is'. It's almost an ideology perfectly suited for being a hermit, as they essentially want to shut out the world. Conservatism and authoritarianism are anti-social.
Yeah they definitely see themselves as enclaved; a siege mentality. Also they point out the "virtue signalling" of liberals while missing the irony of the absolutely ridiculous extent of their actual signaling to each other through the paraphernalia of Trumpism: the red cap, shit all over their car and lawn etc which in part intimidates the liberal, draws the red line in the sand as a warning but marks them as part of the phalanx defending their rights with other MAGAs; why or what it truly means I doubt they could ever properly articulate, not because they're dumb but because they don't know what it means other than keeping the liberal in check.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,434
The prevailing narrative from the boomers and right leaning people I have on my social media seems to have become "America is being destroyed and Trump was the last hope!".

I don't understand it, can anyone please break it down like I'm five? Like, what America were these people living in. Is it because rich people are going to get taxed more? Something about your 401k? Can't just be openly racist? Black and brown people are still considered humans? No wall after all?

What is this conservative utopia that Biden and Harris are about to destroy?

We just had a Black President the world loved for the most part for 2 terms, and now we have a Black Vice President. Racism and bigotry are long out of style and are actually punished. The generation the boomers shit all over and robbed to death are old enough to vote now and are slowly starting to outnumber them. And then there's the full on reprogramming of these folks via Fox News and Conservative Radio/Facebook circles 24/7/365.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,886
Columbia, SC
We just had a Black President the world loved for the most part for 2 terms, and now we have a Black Vice President. Racism and bigotry are long out of style and are actually punished. The generation the boomers shit all over and robbed to death are old enough to vote now and are slowly starting to outnumber them. And then there's the full on reprogramming of these folks via Fox News and Conservative Radio/Facebook circles 24/7/365.

Its also why voter suppression is not only important, but fundamental to republicans maintaining control over the nation. Not in a single race did I hear Republicans offer anything neither in 2016 nor in 2020. They don't have a vision that would get you excited for what they want unless what you want is to keep other groups of americans down. Since they have nothing to sell their tactics almost center around keeping people from being able to vote at all. Hence shit like Florida's bullshit poll tax for ex cons which what these people even owe is obscured from view. Everything Republicans do centers on them securing a lock on power and ruling as a minority because they cant win the long game through demographic shifts.
 

PKrockin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,260
The right's view of the left in this country is entirely disconnected from reality. Their view seems to be shaped by whatever disingenuous TV bums say the left wants and the nonstop feed of cherrypicked examples of Twitter randos saying something dumb. These people think the left's acceptance of homosexuality is a ploy setting up acceptance of pedophilia as a sexual orientation. They think abortion rights are leading up to killing born babies. They don't have a clue what socialism is but they're scared shitless of it and view practically any spending they don't agree with as socialism.
 

MonoStable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,052
It's crazy to me easily their base is whipped into fear, like even with biden elected president they have the keys to the supreme court, and the senate will most likely retain in republican control. You literally have nothing to fear.
 

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,963
From my personal experience and where I live, it is mostly about abortions. It's like the #1 talking point and single issue.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,138
Social media has exposed the fact that an overwhelming number of people are simply stupid and lazy thinkers, they aren't interested in any actual critical thought and prefer just to have their views validated. As long as you tell them something they want to believe, they will believe it.