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laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
When you've got a gaming platform, getting third party publishers and developers to support it is a key priority for you. You've got to listen to what they want out of a specific hardware to make it easy to develop for, make deals with them to get games to come to your platform, and make sure software and hardware sales are big enough that even more publishers will come and support you over time. But as has been increasingly obvious over the years, you can't really do any of that, unless you produce your own games for the system as well. If third party games were a car, then first party games would be the driver. It's up to the platform holder to make their box appealing by publishing/developing quality, innovative titles to boost sales or draw publicity, that'll increase the userbase, and thus, boost the chances of big games coming to your system.

Yet lately, the newcomers that are throwing their hat into the ring either don't get this, or wait too long to do so. Google is the biggest example of this with Stadia. During the pre-launch, they promised all these third party games and support coming to Stadia over the years. Yet the one thing Google hasn't shown, was any games they're making themselves. That's because Google waited far to long to get first party titles in development. After its first party division, Stadia Games & Entertainment was formed, they only built their first Studio After Stadia launched. What the hell? You wait until the launch of your new platform to start making games? That's pathetic. You should've had first party games ready, the minute you revealed your platform. The lack of first party games, on top of streaming's uncertain viability, means Stadia at the moment, is a complete joke. What good is third party support if you can already play all of it on other, better systems?

Now Apple is taking an arguably better approach with Apple Arcade. It's Netflix style platform for Macs and iPhones/iPads. Rather than try to get the same games on other consoles, Apple is instead approaching developers for exclusive or timed exclusive content to be available on the service, which gives it more of its own need compared to the warmed leftovers that Stadia has at the moment. That said, the fact that the company at the moment, has no plans for any kind of in-house game publishing branch of their own for AA means this could eventually backfire. If I were Apple, I'd start investing in producing your own content soon if Apple Arcade is to have a future.

On the opposite side, two now-industry veterans understood this very fact when they launched their gaming platforms. Sony Computer Entertainment (Now Sony Interactive Entertainment) knew that the PlayStation wouldn't have a chance in the market if Sony didn't also make their own games for it. So they contracted a bunch of independent developers to make games that SCE would publish for the system, and signed a deal with Universal Interactive to publish Crash Bandicoot as a PlayStation exclusive. Eventually, Sony managed to scrounge enough to build its own in-house studios worldwide to develop games, and make key acquisitions of developers they deemed vital to PlayStation. Fast forward to today, and the PlayStation 4 has established itself not only as a home for third party titles, but also some of the finest first party content on any platform.

Microsoft had the advantage of having gaming experience thanks to the popularity of Windows PCs for gaming. The company already had a few series and developers under its wing, so it was easy for them to sign a few games ready in time for the launch of the Xbox, including a little known game called Halo, which single handedly justified the Xbox as a platform. And Microsoft would eventually learn that First party matters the hard-way, when the Xbox One suffered from constant software droughts of quality first party titles compared to the steady stream that Sony was releasing for the PS4. Basically, Sony had Horizon... Microsoft had Sea of Thieves. Hell, I could just bring up Nintendo and call it a day.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,020
I don't think so, otherwise there's nothing to differentiate if. Why would I buy a new console to play games which are already available on my old one?!
 

Era Uma Vez

Member
Feb 5, 2020
3,205
User Warned: Platform warring
Idk about that, XBox One has pretty solid numbers...

giphy.gif
 

Aureon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,819
Maaaybe a really estabilished one with a killer network of third party support ready to go.

But a hardware box without exclusive software is a hard sell, as various companies found out.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,088
Pakistan
Yes. It 100% can. How? By actually making a consumer friendly hardware/software or service that is the most useful. PC never dies because it gives the user a lot of options and customizability. If a console can get the better hardware, have features that are damn useful to its user or customer, it will sell the most and be used the most. Anyone telling you otherwise is just plain wrong tbh.

This whole exclusivity BS just started because one or more platforms didn't wanna compete with the other on fair terms feature and specs wise or didn't have the capacity to do it. If a platform that is no.1 at the start doesn't change or adapt to the customer's needs will be left behind so anyone saying that the first company to do x will always be 1st forever are deluding themselves. You need to be agile and keep changing your product if you want to be ahead of the curve.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
There is an assumption that a platform can succeed if it offers a compelling enough experience. The experieince Stadia was going to provide was the ability to stream anywhere.

It ended up not being good enough. Maybe someone will prove this right in the future but as it stands it is safer to make first party games than to not do this.
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
Yes. It 100% can. How? By actually making a consumer friendly hardware/software or service that is the most useful. PC never dies because it gives the user a lot of options and customizability. If a console can get the better hardware, have features that are damn useful to its user or customer, it will sell the most and be used the most. Anyone telling you otherwise is just plain wrong tbh.

This whole exclusivity BS just started because one or more platforms didn't wanna compete with the other on fair terms feature and specs wise or didn't have the capacity to do it.
The PC doesn't really have a platform holder though. It's got gaming clients that are run by other platform holders. But no singular company controls PC gaming. That's why it can get away with not having first party games in the traditional sense.

Console on the other hand are controlled by a single company, and thus it falls on them to make their own exclusive games. Exclusives aren't evil. They exist for a reason. Even Steam has its own exclusives.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,479
Any form of exclusives should be the same in this scenario right? Do them being first party really makes that much of a difference?

Like Xbox 360 getting Bioshock and not PS3 as opposed to Xbox 360 getting Mass Effect and not PS3. Both eventually ended on the console too.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Yes. It 100% can. How? By actually making a consumer friendly hardware/software or service that is the most useful. PC never dies because it gives the user a lot of options and customizability. If a console can get the better hardware, have features that are damn useful to its user or customer, it will sell the most and be used the most. Anyone telling you otherwise is just plain wrong tbh.

This whole exclusivity BS just started because one or more platforms didn't wanna compete with the other on fair terms feature and specs wise or didn't have the capacity to do it. If a platform that is no.1 at the start doesn't change or adapt to the customer's needs will be left behind so anyone saying that the first company to do x will always be 1st forever are deluding themselves. You need to be agile and keep changing your product if you want to be ahead of the curve.

But the PC isn't a closed curated environment like a console. PC's are sold for a variety of reasons, not strictly as gaming devices. If a company wants to strictly sell a gaming device they need more than third party support.
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
Any form of exclusives should be the same in this scenario right? Do them being first party really makes that much of a difference?

First party I think is more important for exclusivity because the platform holder has better opportunity to leverage the system's capabilities and define the style and attitude of what their platform is all about. Third party exclusives get ported to everything eventually, but first party games stay locked to your ecosystem forever.
 

Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571
Yes. It may be shocking to people here, but you can actually compete by building a better platform, offering better features and services, lowering prices, making it easier for developers, etc. The vast majority of games today are multi-platform.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,088
Pakistan
The PC doesn't really have a platform holder though. It's got gaming clients that are run by other platform holders. But no singular company controls PC gaming. That's why it can get away with not having first party games in the traditional sense.

Console on the other hand are controlled by a single company, and thus it falls on them to make their own games.

I mean even in PC, there are store wars, and all sorts of wars in terms of PC parts and the company/manufacturer stays stagnant, starts losing marketshare.. same with launcher/digital platforms in PC gaming, steam keeps constantly improving and people keep using it...

Again in terms of consoles, it doesn't really matter if its controlled by one company... the one with a better product and marketing wins...
But the PC isn't a closed curated environment like a console. PC's are sold for a variety of reasons, not strictly as gaming devices. If a company wants to strictly sell a gaming device they need more than third party support.
I gave PC's example because even though its open, it does have entities and companies that make software and hardware for it that compete each other in terms of as to how better a hardware component is against the other PURELY or which PC digital platform or launcher/store is the better one features and practically vs the competition? So like this :)
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
I mean even in PC, there are store wars, and all sorts of wars in terms of PC parts and the company/manufacturer stays stagnant, starts losing marketshare.. same with launcher/digital platforms in PC gaming, steam keeps constantly improving and people keep using it...
But Steam also has exclusives that encourage people to keep using it as well. Complaining about not being able to play God of War on Xbox is like complaining about not being able to watch Stranger Things on Hulu.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,088
Pakistan
The PC doesn't really have a platform holder though. It's got gaming clients that are run by other platform holders. But no singular company controls PC gaming. That's why it can get away with not having first party games in the traditional sense.

Console on the other hand are controlled by a single company, and thus it falls on them to make their own games.

I mean even in PC, there are store wars, and all sorts of wars in terms of PC parts and the company/manufacturer stays stagnant, starts losing marketshare.. same with launcher/digital platforms in PC gaming, steam keeps constantly improving and people keep using it...

Again in terms of consoles, it doesn't really matter if its controlled by one company... the one with a better product and marketing wins... its the law of the junge basically, without a world where consoles don't have exclusives, i think this is how it would be done..
But the PC isn't a closed curated environment like a console. PC's are sold for a variety of reasons, not strictly as gaming devices. If a company wants to strictly sell a gaming device they need more than third party support.
I gave PC's example because even though its open, it does have entities and companies that make software and hardware for it that compete each other in terms of as to how better a hardware component is against the other PURELY or which PC digital platform or launcher/store is the better one features and practically vs the competition? So like this :)

But Steam also has exclusives that encourage people to keep using it as well. Complaining about not being able to play God of War on Xbox is like complaining about not being able to watch Stranger Things on Hulu.

EDIT: BTW i just re-read the thread title and i thought the OP meant that Can a gaming platform survive without first party exclusive games being an actual thing in general and not just specific to that one platform... so sorry i read it wrong! My bad! Disregard any arguments i made in this thread basically.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,910
It can be done but if you're not taking advantage of the biggest motivator for consumers to purchase your product then you're going to have a bad time.
 

Uncle at Nintendo

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Jan 3, 2018
8,580
Only notable PS1 first party blockbusters were Crash and GT. I think it's fair to say that it still would have sold a fuck ton without those two (but maybe not as much).
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,513
Not great. Even if they some how to get every multiplatform games, they will never be able to keep up with high end PCs. Even on PC which doesn't have a first party support gets exclusive games due to game audience differences. When you factor in Sony and Nintendo first party efforts, it would be stupid to get a console that doesn't have any support in that regard.
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
Only notable PS1 first party blockbusters were Crash and GT. I think it's fair to say that it still would have sold a fuck ton without those two (but maybe not as much).

Jumping Flash
Midievil
Wild ARMS
Parrappa the Rapper
Spyro
Syphon Filter
Twisted Metal
989 Sports series
Wipeout

All of these helped to define the PlayStation arguably as much as Final Fantasy VII or Metal Gear Solid.

They weren't first party though? Unless OP meant exclusives and not just solely first party.
I meant first party.
 

nuoh_my_god

Member
Nov 11, 2017
169
Ireland
The PC doesn't really have a platform holder though. It's got gaming clients that are run by other platform holders. But no singular company controls PC gaming. That's why it can get away with not having first party games in the traditional sense.

Console on the other hand are controlled by a single company, and thus it falls on them to make their own exclusive games. Exclusives aren't evil. They exist for a reason. Even Steam has its own exclusives.

To add to this, I would say it does have "first party" exclusives. All the types of games impossible to play on consoles or just plain better to (4X, simulators, managers, RTS, MOBAs). There is no first party, but a lot of them are exclusive.
 

j7vikes

Definitely not shooting blanks
Member
Jan 5, 2020
5,622
Nintendo and Sony have been the two most successful companies in the handheld and home console markets over a number of years. And they are both know as being the strongest companies from a first party perspective (or at least consistently). I don't think that's a coincidence.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,128
in the abstract, i would say yes.

now it's more about providing a platform/service than "hey come to our side -- you get GoW/Halo/ect"

20 years ago it wouldn't fly but now it conceivably could.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
PC does fine. So yes, if your platform is strong enough, you don't need first party games to survive.

There are no first party Nvidia games. There are no first party AMD games. There were never any first party 3DFX games. All of that gaming hardware sold entirely on the basis of third party games, and it sold and continues to sell like gangbusters.

To add to this, I would say it does have "first party" exclusives. All the types of games impossible to play on consoles or just plain better to (4X, simulators, managers, RTS, MOBAs). There is no first party, but a lot of them are exclusive.
Even for PCs, the most popular games are exclusives.

First party does not mean exclusive, and exclusive does not mean first party.

There are plenty of third party exclusives, and plenty of first party non-exclusives, the two terms are unrelated.
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
There are no first party Nvidia games. There are no first party AMD games. There were never any first party 3DFX games. All of that gaming hardware sold entirely on the basis of third party games, and it sold and continues to sell like gangbusters.
Those are chips. Not gaming platforms. This is about platforms without first party games. PC is a special case since as I mentioned, it doesn't really have a Platform holder.

now it's more about providing a platform/service than "hey come to our side -- you get GoW/Halo/ect"

That wasn't helping Microsoft keep up with the sales of PS4 though. Which is why they've stocked up on first party developers for the next generation.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,667
The Milky Way
Idk about that, XBox One has pretty solid numbers...

giphy.gif
You say just kidding, but it's not a million miles from the truth this generation. As in, I don't think the MS first party games this gen moved the needle much at all aside from Halo 5.

The fact that MS still managed to shift 50m+ consoles with a literal shoestring budget for first party games just goes to show the power of third party. Look at how Wii U performed in comparison.
 

Strike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,339
PS2 did. Aside from GT and GOW (pretty late in its life cycle), didn't really have any major first party titles. Now, not so much.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,128
That wasn't helping Microsoft keep up with the sales of PS4 though. Which is why they've stocked up on first party developers for the next generation.

a wait and see thing how next gen pans out with the MS acquistions but i think their "stance" is they don't need to spend 100 mil something odd dollars on a handful AAA exclusives annually to get people buying xboxs

ps4 v xbone was predicated on mostly unrelated fuckups
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
PS2 did. Aside from GT and GOW (pretty late in its life cycle), didn't really have any major first party titles. Now, not so much.
Ico
Ratchet & Clank
Jak & Daxter
Shadow of the Colossus
Siren
Sly Cooper

The PS2 had pretty kick-ass first party support.


ps4 v xbone was predicated on mostly unrelated fuckups
Even after Microsoft did a role reversal, They still struggled against the PS4 by lacking in enough quality first party games.
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
PC has lived without "first party" games for years.

If you mean "exclusives", then of course you bloody can. By providing significantly better service than your rivals. Could be from free online, or heavily discounted games, better performance, flexibility, whatever.

It's harder than simply locking down content, but it can be done.
 

nuoh_my_god

Member
Nov 11, 2017
169
Ireland
PC does fine. So yes, if your platform is strong enough, you don't need first party games to survive.

There are no first party Nvidia games. There are no first party AMD games. There were never any first party 3DFX games. All of that gaming hardware sold entirely on the basis of third party games, and it sold and continues to sell like gangbusters.




First party does not mean exclusive, and exclusive does not mean first party.

There are plenty of third party exclusives, and plenty of first party non-exclusives, the two terms are unrelated.

Yes, of course they're third party, not trying to be ignorant. But the games that are most often exclusive are made like first party games - i.e. impossible or improbable on other hardware. Games like CSGO, or Dota 2, or Total War. They'll almost always stay exclusive to PC, and when they don't, the PC version is usually far superior. I look at people like Creative Assembly, Valve or idk Larian as "PC-exclusive" kinda first party developers. I hope that explains my quasi-point, not being smarmy or nothing.

Edit: Like Valve right now behaves similarly to Microsoft, exclusive to their platform (PC) but will release more casual stuff that makes money on other platforms (lets say Dota Underlords).