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FriskyCanuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,063
Toronto, Canada
A social media campaign backed by a Japanese seasonings company is targeting the persistent idea that Chinese food is packed with MSG and can make you sick.

So entrenched is the notion in American culture, it shows up in the dictionary: Merriam-Webster.com lists " Chinese restaurant syndrome " as a real illness that has been around since 1968. But much of the mythology around the idea has been debunked: monosodium glutamate, also known as MSG, shows up in many foods from tomatoes to breast milk, and there's no evidence to link it to illness.

"For me, it's another thing to point to other people and say 'Look, if you think racism toward Asians doesn't exist in this country, like here it is,'" said restaurateur Eddie Huang. "I know how white people see us. 'They're cool, they're acceptable, they're non-threatening. But they're weird, their food.'"
Huang, a New York City-based chef and author (his memoir inspired the ABC sitcom "Fresh Off the Boat"), and TV's "The Real" co-host Jeannie Mai are launching a social media effort Tuesday with Ajinomoto, the longtime Japanese producer of MSG seasonings. They plan to use the hashtag #RedefineCRS to challenge Merriam-Webster to rewrite the definition.

When reached for comment Tuesday, Merriam-Webster said it had not received complaints before about "Chinese restaurant syndrome" but would reconsider the term.

"Our aim is always to provide accurate information about what words mean, which includes providing information about whether a use is offensive or dated," senior editor Emily Brewster said in a statement. "We'll be reviewing this particular entry and will revise it according to the evidence of the term in use.
"The dictionary I thought was a reputable kind of Bible that was fact-checked all the way through in order to get us information," said Mai, who is Vietnamese and Chinese. "'Chinese restaurant syndrome' is truly an outdated, super racist term."

The symptoms are listed as numbness of the neck, arms, and back as well as headaches, dizziness, and palpitations. It affects people eating food but "especially Chinese food heavily seasoned with monosodium glutamate."

"I actually think it'd be interesting if they just kept it and just noted this is an outdated, antiquated thing," Huang said. "I do think these things are important to remember and point to."
So, how did the myth endure for more than five decades?

It started with a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine in 1968, according to Robert Ku, author of "Dubious Gastronomy: The Cultural Politics of Eating Asian in the USA." Dr. Ho Man Kwok, who was Chinese American, wrote a letter speculating that some Chinese restaurants left him feeling numbness and other symptoms. Other readers, doctors themselves, then wrote in saying they experienced something similar. Some researchers claimed that MSG was the source, Ku said. The journal's editors decided to call it "Chinese restaurant syndrome."

"For a long time, Chinese restaurant syndrome was considered a legitimate ailment that the medical community seemed to back," Ku said.
At a Chinese restaurant in Phoenix, some patrons had never even heard of the term.

Linda Saldana is bothered by one culture's food getting singled out.

"I'm obviously not Asian," said Saldana, who was having lunch with her husband, son and two nieces. "But if that was to be said about Mexican food, I'd feel a little offended because how could food cause all that?"
The MSG myth has largey been accepted as disproven, at least around here. I don't remember the last time I saw a restaurant that had a "No MSG" sign on their window.
 
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fracas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,646
It's a super gross phrase. I still see places around here advertising no MSG but then again, I live in rural KY.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,957
It should be removed. The MSG thing was always an excuse to explain extremely common, non-specific symptoms as being caused by The Other. Dovetails with a lot of "poisoner" myths very clearly.
 

Poppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,273
richmond, va
I've never heard of MSG being talked about as anything other than a material to make you feel temporarily full quicker.
i think often it is used in low sodium salt replacements and further beyond that it just makes everything savory taste good

it's like how bouillon/stock instead of just water in a recipe will make it taste better, a lot of soup mixes and dry bouillon has a fair amount of msg to make up for not having slow cooked out meat compounds
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Always pisses me off when I go to an Asian restaurant with my uncle and he says "No MSG." My fucking Japanese husband is right there you tool!
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,890
MSG is the seasoning of gods. CRS ain't a thing either. Just don't over-eat lol
The typical portions one gets from local Chinese eateries is amazing. Like, I could make their usual combos last an entire week.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,957
I've never heard of MSG being talked about as anything other than a material to make you feel temporarily full quicker.
The "temporarily full" thing isn't even related really, it's just a lot of American Chinese restaurant food consisting of mostly lean meats, veggies, and rice, most of it isn't terribly "stick to your ribs" food unless you eat a lot of it.
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
2,877
Man, I had never come across Chinese Restaurant Syndrome in the wild, but my passing understanding of it was totally different. I understood it to be a joke that crappy Chinese takeout will give you the shits. I had no idea of its connection to MSG or supposed actually illnesses.
 

nampad

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,238
People in Germany still think MSG is the devils spice.
In the US, at least sone realized that the claim is bullshit.
 

Fushichou187

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,312
Sonoma County, California.
102a9d9e5901969454e2492180005e8c--food--drinks-food-networktrisha.jpg


Literally one of the best things ever. MSG-coated salt.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,647
Canada
There's a thai place near my work that has a big NO MSG sign still.

It's upsetting, and their food would probably benefit from it.
 

Deleted member 4552

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,570
A dictionary is not a book that tells you what words mean.

It's a book that tells you what people say words mean.

Dictionaries literally change and mark words as archaic if they fall out of use.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
MSG is great, and the anti-MSG hysteria is dumb and in large part xenophobic, I am happy to see it starting to wash away.
With that being said, I'm not sure coming at a dictionary like that makes sense, I guess they could use slightly better wording there, but a dictionary's goal is to record usage, and sadly, people still believe in that crap.

102a9d9e5901969454e2492180005e8c--food--drinks-food-networktrisha.jpg


Literally one of the best things ever. MSG-coated salt.
So honest question, how is this better than MSG?
I don't think there's a perfect ratio of MSG and salt that work for all recipes (and not all recipes that use MSG even needs salt).
 

Fushichou187

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,312
Sonoma County, California.
So honest question, how is this better than MSG?
I don't think there's a perfect ratio of MSG and salt that work for all recipes (and not all recipes that use MSG even needs salt).

Well I love salt, and this tastes like salt but with a bit of the mouth-watering that MSG causes and I use it as seasoning where I might normally be tempted to use a little bit of both. Hard to explain. There are definitely dishes where I'll use MSG in the recipe and cut back on the salt because it's getting it from somewhere else, but aji-shio tastes great to me as a combination of the two. You really would need to try it for yourself to see where you might include it. I love it on soups, breakfast/brunch stuff like avo toast or eggs benedict, and occasionally on steamed veggies that I haven't already seasoned.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Well I love salt, and this tastes like salt but with a bit of the mouth-watering that MSG causes and I use it as seasoning where I might normally be tempted to use a little bit of both. Hard to explain. There are definitely dishes where I'll use MSG in the recipe and cut back on the salt because it's getting it from somewhere else, but aji-shio tastes great to me as a combination of the two. You really would need to try it for yourself to see where you might include it. I love it on soups, breakfast/brunch stuff like avo toast or eggs benedict, and occasionally on steamed veggies that I haven't already seasoned.
Why would it be different than just adding salt and MSG?
I think that allows you to control the ratio must better for your taste.
I'm gonna be honest here and state my flavor biases, if I read it right this is 90% salt and 10% MSG, and that seem kinda low on MSG for most of the recipes I use.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
Must admit I'm completely naive on this topic. I thought MSG was some bad artificial ingredient found in American food and banned over here in the UK/Europe. That's all I thought about it. No idea that it apparently isn't bad (?) and is perfectly acceptable ingredient and no clue it is related to Chinese food apparently. Hmmm. If the science backs up then yeah this is really bad and needs fixed.

What actually is it and why is it used?
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
There's also an S&G Brand Pepper, MSG and Salt blend at my local Ranch that is 100% my new Jam.
And Mayo, don't forget MSG mayo.

kpNRgUS.jpg


I think they made an MSG free version for the US market and fuck everything about that.

Must admit I'm completely naive on this topic. I thought MSG was some bad artificial ingredient found in American food and banned over here in the UK/Europe. That's all I thought about it. No idea that it apparently isn't bad (?) and is perfectly acceptable ingredient and no clue it is related to Chinese food apparently. Hmmm. If the science backs up then yeah this is really bad and needs fixed.

What actually is it and why is it used?
It's a naturally occurring compound that has been first isolated from seaweed in Japan in the early 20th century, it quickly became super popular in most of east Asia and elsewhere.
It's not bad for you and it can be crazy delicious if used right.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,628
A dictionary is not a book that tells you what words mean.

It's a book that tells you what people say words mean.

Dictionaries literally change and mark words as archaic if they fall out of use.
The wording of the definition presents it as a legitimate medical condition, in which it is not. Since the dictionary serves as a cultural arbiter, it has the power to legitimize things by determining what is considered part of the English lexicon and how it is framed. If the term is not removed, it should be redefined to clearly display the falsity of Chinese restaurant syndrome.

For example, in the definition of Asperger's syndrome, Merriam Webster correctly identifies it as part of the autism spectrum and no longer its own diagnosis, aligning the definition with the DSM-V (2013) classification.
 

mnk

Member
Nov 11, 2017
6,333
Must admit I'm completely naive on this topic. I thought MSG was some bad artificial ingredient found in American food and banned over here in the UK/Europe. That's all I thought about it. No idea that it apparently isn't bad (?) and is perfectly acceptable ingredient and no clue it is related to Chinese food apparently. Hmmm. If the science backs up then yeah this is really bad and needs fixed.

What actually is it and why is it used?
Yeah, before this thread I'd never heard of any connection between MSG and racism before. I guess I thought it was just some artificial seasoning that restaurants used as a cheaper alternative to other seasonings or something. I was also under the impression having a lot of it was bad for you and linked to cancer or something, but apparently that's false?
 

MrMephistoX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
And Mayo, don't forget MSG mayo.

kpNRgUS.jpg


I think they made an MSG free version for the US market and fuck everything about that.


It's a naturally occurring compound that has been first isolated from seaweed in Japan in the early 20th century, it quickly became super popular in most of east Asia and elsewhere.
It's not bad for you and it can be crazy delicious if used right.

Also fuck Helman's / Best Foods...Kewpie is the best damn Mayo on the planet. Don't even get me started on their salad dressing...it's low calorie and way tastier because of the MSG.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
The wording of the definition presents it as a legitimate medical condition, in which it is not. Since the dictionary serves as a cultural arbiter, it has the power to legitimize things by determining what is considered part of the English lexicon and how it is framed. If the term is not removed, it should be redefined to clearly display the falsity of Chinese restaurant syndrome.

For example, in the definition of Asperger's syndrome, Merriam Webster correctly identifies it as part of the autism spectrum and no longer its own diagnosis, aligning the definition with the DSM-V (2013) classification.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect lexicographers to also be fact checkers, being a lexicographers is hard enough.
I can see some tweaking of the words there a bit, but I don't think we should expect the dictionary to call out Chinese Restaurant Syndrome more than Astrology.


Though I think maybe subbing "is held to" with a "supposed" might not be the worst idea.
 

MrMephistoX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
It's super easy to make at home by the way, check for some recipes online.
Also, if you make it at home you can call it aioli so your snob friends stop acting like they're too good for mayo.

I visited the Kewpie factory in Japan for my Masters program...trust me I can't replicate that at home!
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,628
I don't think it's reasonable to expect lexicographers to also be fact checkers, being a lexicographers is hard enough.
I can see some tweaking of the words there a bit, but I don't think we should expect the dictionary to call out Chinese Restaurant Syndrome more than Astrology.


Though I think maybe subbing "is held to" with a "supposed" might not be the worst idea.
You literally beat me to it yourself, lmao. In the astrology definition, there is no doubt that the wording casts suspicion on the truthfulness of it.

Like, this is all you have to change in the definition for CRS: a group of symptoms (such as numbness of the neck, arms, and back with headache, dizziness, and palpitations) that some believe affect susceptible persons eating food and especially Chinese food heavily seasoned with monosodium glutamate

And thus, nothing indicating that this is a legitimate thing
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,419
Shout out to that company, I know they have an obvious vested interest but I never would have known this was in the dictionary