Yes because you intentionally used an incendiary analogy and then claimed innocence in doing so
Claiming you're not comparing them is cheap.
Getting high and mighty that people aren't showing your post respect and are being "knee-jerk" is laughable.
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California valedictorian torches school staff and alcoholic teacher in graduation speech
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
Yes because you intentionally used an incendiary analogy and then claimed innocence in doing so
Claiming you're not comparing them is cheap.
Getting high and mighty that people aren't showing your post respect and are being "knee-jerk" is laughable.
If the same thing would happen in an entirely different scenario it doesn't mean it happening in this scenario does not have validity, they are different things.
People put too much focus on these speeches and decorum during them. We had one fellow classmate back in the day who was denied being allowed to walk because he'd missed too many days or gym classes or owed the school money or some shit. Petty, stupid bookkeeping nonsense for a moment that most people barely remember. The administration of many schools is hopeless. She's the top of her class and got there for a reason. Good on her for calling out all the shit she saw and dealt with.
"People were saying the kids cheering was evidence she wasn't lying. I'm just saying kids are morons!"
I posted a real life example a few pages back on how they absolutely can be. I also posted awhile back that I agree the drunken teacher thing is extremely bad and if it was really brushed under the rug it deserves to be called out, but again, none of us here know what happened there in any way.
Kids are just so stupid, unlike adults like me who use abortion as a rhetorical gotcha and then claim anyone who takes issue with that is the problem
You tell'em, girl.
Also even before watching the video I already knew the report of "students squirming" was a lie and they were supportive (they even cheered at the end).
There is no fucking excuse for repeatedly showing up drunk at work, let alone when said work is partially responsible for the professional future of hundreds of people. The problem is that many schools and colleges just don't give a fuck. And she didn't even name that teacher, unlike some of the others.
Also even before watching the video I already knew the report of "students squirming" was a lie and they were supportive (they even cheered at the end).
There is no fucking excuse for repeatedly showing up drunk at work, let alone when said work is partially responsible for the professional future of hundreds of people. The problem is that many schools and colleges just don't give a fuck. And she didn't even name that teacher, unlike some of the others.
The students did not cheer when the adviser and office staff were being called out. Going by your logic, they must disagree with her then.
Funny how there's no response to this. It's way easier just to present the girl as a vindictive spoiled brat telling half truths to go over for her classmates.
You've posted a lot in this thread, quote it if you want me to see it. You're completely missing what this is about.
This is about who we trust in situations where people call out misconduct. You side with the people in a position of power and give them the benefit of the doubt, despite clear opposition from hundreds of students. No one ever knows exactly what happened for any situation like this. Who you side with/who you give the benefit of the doubt says a lot about who you are and how you view those in authority positions vs those with less influence and power.
The short version of what you're saying is that when someone calls out misconduct from an authority figure, when you do not have all of the information, you give the benefit of the doubt to the person in power and not the person standing up to them. Why this is your response to these situations I do not know. I think it's a dangerous way to respond.
After she finished calling them out they all cheered enthusiastically so not sure what you're talking about. Sorry that they waited for her to finish?
The 'incendiary analogy' as you put it would be openly accepted at some places in this country and would be just as shocking an example to some of them as someone coming in to school drunk. I'm not claiming innocence or whatever that means, and again, if you're confused I'd point to Ron Paul's response as he seemed to take the question the way I intended.
You know, I always love it when people put schools on blast but I gotta say. I think I would have enjoyed it more if most of the problems she went on about had examples that weren't specific to her.
Jesus this thread is pretty gross. Immediate dismissal of a young woman's concerns with a school system that did very little for her educational success over four years. Just because she overcame those obstacles to still become valedictorian doesn't mean that it's okay to totally dismiss everything she's saying.
She frames her experiences in a personal way because it's effective. It would have been a weaker argument if she tried to argue for her class' experiences as a whole. A school system is supposed to be there for every student, smart ones included. The administration clearly failed at giving her four great years of school if the first thing she does when she's given a position where others can hear her is put the school on blast. Like, she's valedictorian and even still her school experiences were shitty.
She's telling her truth to power and it's really something that so many posters here are shaming her for it. Not to mention that most of the criticisms she's getting here are using sexist terms that pretty much only get applied to women, so that's fun to see on Era. Not sure how you all expect things to change if people only speak truth to power at appropriate times and venues where it's not a disturbance to other people.
She frames her experiences in a personal way because it's effective. It would have been a weaker argument if she tried to argue for her class' experiences as a whole. A school system is supposed to be there for every student, smart ones included. The administration clearly failed at giving her four great years of school if the first thing she does when she's given a position where others can hear her is put the school on blast. Like, she's valedictorian and even still her school experiences were shitty.
She's telling her truth to power and it's really something that so many posters here are shaming her for it. Not to mention that most of the criticisms she's getting here are using sexist terms that pretty much only get applied to women, so that's fun to see on Era. Not sure how you all expect things to change if people only speak truth to power at appropriate times and venues where it's not a disturbance to other people.
So your theory is that she made up stuff about a teacher being drunk (without even naming him), because what she gets out of that is... ?
Sorry but yes, when the powerless use their only chance at an audience for speaking out against the powerful, my instinct is most often going to be to side with them. Because what they say being at the very least partially true makes a lot more sense than them making up stuff just to infuriate the faculty.
And if she had spoken out against things she hadn't been a victim of, people would have criticised her for that ("they can speak for themselves" etc.).
Can't ever win, eh?
OF COURSE some sanctimonious people are on the " side" of the school.Where do you people even come from? I was lucky enough to go to private school, I can't imagine what a clustwrfuck public school can be. Good for her.
Ultimately, you are using the audience cheered as evidence of accuracy. A lot of people cheer Donald Trump too.
This is where people are getting it wrong. I don't think most (I can't speak for everyone) people are siding with the administration here outside of questioning whether this was an appropriate time and place for this message. I think most (all?) people would be on her side if this was a news article or if she had organized a school protest or something. Hell, I'm not against her message at all if it's true, but I don't think it's good for people to get whipped up into a furor when they don't have the full story.
Lol god you're right. I hate it and I blame the internet.
Except here the argument is about whether or not her fellow students agreed. Do I think people cheer Donald Trump when they agree with him? Yes. And now you're comparing this crowd of graduates to rabid Trump supporters? And you think you're not being biased... Do you think that this valedictorian girl has a Trump-esque cult of personality around her that convinces all of her classmates to cheer about events that she's secretly making up?
Never said most. I said you. You're still sowing doubt in this response, saying "if it's true". You think you're being neutral but you're not.
Do we think it's appropriate for the powerless to use their one time occasion with a large audience to speak out against the powerful "without any oversight" from their overlords?
Yes, yes we fucking do. Next!
I literally stated: Not taking words at face value doesn't mean you're throwing their claims out the window or calling them false.
How do you read that and come to the conclusion that I'm saying she made everything up?
The amount of people going to bat for a teacher who came to work drunk often enough to get arrested in this thread is gross, and seeing people trying to silence this girl is just as awful. Really makes me see the people in here in a different light.
There are places in the country that would be ok with racial segregation, you really want to go down that road?
Whoa there partner, let's all take a chill pill here he's just asking questions!
🙏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
For as "Against the grain" as Era likes to pride itself as ,there are some who are 100% mouthpieces for traditional institutions of power and control, who wouldn't dare buck the status quo . It's bizarre.
Who is going to bat for the drunk teacher? I have been trying to explain what the duties of an adviser are, which are the student's primary speaking point. She missed a scholarship deadline and is blaming it on office staff. She only mentioned the drunk teacher afterward.
And you trust the staff more than her/her parents' account and her peers' agreements despite the school having an incident with a drunk teacher being arrested at school??
Particularly when some of these posters fall in both camps.
You should review the first few pages of this thread.
The girl is 100% entitled to her feelings and probably really enjoyed sharing them in the moment of her speech, but I imagine with time there's going to be regret. I get delusions of self righteousness and sometimes go through with it, but the hangover of taking others out never makes me feel good.
I wasn't valedictorian but I did really well in high school and I viewed the authority the same way when I was leaving my small town Catholic high school, but now I kind of look back with a little more empathy at there weaknesses.
I wasn't valedictorian but I did really well in high school and I viewed the authority the same way when I was leaving my small town Catholic high school, but now I kind of look back with a little more empathy at there weaknesses.
She mentioned it all together. Not as some sort of after thought.
Also a missed scholarship is a serious detriment to those who can't afford to go to college otherwise. And a good school administration that actually supports their student body makes sure to inform students of opportunities like scholarships as soon as they possibly can.
"I'm not taking your words at face value" = "I don't trust what you're saying to be true". You're saying she could be telling the truth, or that she could be lying; therefore, you must have a theory as to why would she would lie about it. I just want to hear that theory.
Feel free to play the semantics game and split as many hairs as you want to justify your fence sitting, I'm just not buying it. Sorry, I mean "I'm not taking it at face value".
Yes because some places are oppressive and awful to women what a surprise.
You're rhetorical exercise is really obvious. It's clear you're against this student and are using an awful an analogy to try to prove why she did wrong
But all you're doing is being offensive
And honestly you should consider apologizing for being so careless about invoking abortion as you have.
Maybe if someone spoke up like her and put them in the hot seat the school would have actually improved. Why should we have "empathy" for weak schooling/incompetent staff?
Steeps argument basically comes down to "What if the least authentic, most innocuous possible version of what she is saying was what was actually happening and she's just a spiteful shithead? You'd feel pretty stupid supporting her then, wouldn't you?"
There are a lot of leaps that we'd have to take and have to basically assume malicious intent on part of her to skew the truth in some kind of vindictive agenda for his hypothetical to be the case.
There are a lot of leaps that we'd have to take and have to basically assume malicious intent on part of her to skew the truth in some kind of vindictive agenda for his hypothetical to be the case.
Abortion compared to drunk teacher
The Kids cheering compared to Trump supporters
I love this thread
Yikes this thread. People attacking this girl who was Brave enough to call out the incompetence of some of the staff especially one who showed up drunk multiple time.
I understand. However, that is making the assumption that she could not afford college without that scholarship. The underlying issue in this thread is the assumptions all around. One side is only allowing assumptions on the student's side by assuming everything she states is accurate. Could we not also assume that the adviser did the best he/she could with a large caseload. As I mentioned earlier, advisers dont just work with students who are successful and about to graduate. They also work with students who are struggling as well. Oftentimes, school staff are going to focus on those that are most at-risk. Can we assume that the office staff did try to provide assistance? If we assume confirmation of someone only based on their words, does not the other side also have a case to be made in it?
It's not as if any of these people are well compensated - they work for the public (or worse private i.e. most likely religious) school system. This girl is going to go on to much better things in life and a way of living most likely.
I've found it's worth being grateful in situations like this. I remember how some kids at my high school graduation were so thrilled they were getting their high school diploma because it seemed like an impossibility for them whereas in my mind I was already applying for my M.S. degree program.
It's understandable if you've never been through it with anyone, but I'd suggest looking into addiction a bit. Likely if this man was coming in under the influence, he was in great pain getting no enjoyment from what he was doing. Eventually you come to realize how tragic/sad that teacher being drunk in class is as opposed to putting judgement on it.
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Bravery is calling it out while it's happening and affecting immediate change. Not waiting and then snarkily dropping a bomb on the way out.
How the hell is Vyrak banned is this real ERA? Fucking disgusting.
Dude speaks out against how ridiculous the shade is some of you have thrown here a mod included and then gets banned? Did I miss a post where he went over the line? Like what the hell. Unless I totally missed something this is real shades of the old place shameful.
Dude speaks out against how ridiculous the shade is some of you have thrown here a mod included and then gets banned? Did I miss a post where he went over the line? Like what the hell. Unless I totally missed something this is real shades of the old place shameful.
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The funny thing is, there is a much better counterargument to the whole "They were cheering" bit: They're fucking teenagers. Even the best school is gonna have a significant group of teens that didn't like it, but even discounting that, there's even just enjoy the idea of having someone call out authority figures on percieved bullshit. So this girl coming up to the podium and sticking it to the authority figures is going to get a round of applause of anyone who wants to be a rebel in that moment.
Like all this philosophical debate trying wheedle their possible motivations based on when they cheered or not.
I personally don't believe that the Valedictorian of the school would go out of her way to roast it in this way unless they had specifically pissed her off and she decided "Hey, even though they're giving me a place of prestige, maybe I don't want to honor these shitty people now that I'm not obligated to them in any way", but it's like some posters here don't understand basic human behavior.
And yet, despite not being compensated well, she had dozens of other teachers who were she thinks were brilliant. Low pay is an issue but it does not excuse misconduct like failing to help your students and showing up drunk to teach.
Being grateful and calling out people in authority positions are not mutually exclusive. Using "well we should be grateful" as an excuse to not call out injustice presents a false choice between being grateful for what you have and being willing to call out misconduct.
These are just excuses because for whatever reason you feel more empathy for negligent staff than for the people they neglected.
How would you know what she did when it was happening?
You're right there is a lot of assuming. But if she had no reason to care about the scholarship then I doubt she would've mentioned it specifically. Additionally, even if she could afford college via loans or something, scholarships still provide a better future rather than being stuck with debt.
And you're also right that this is one side of the story, but when you come into this thread with straight up dismissive posts saying "its just a scholarship" thats bullshit and will get called out.