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lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
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Almost missed the window for this and only read it by accident while on a C&C binge I started earlier in the week. It was released on August 27th 1999 in North America but apparently came out a few days earlier internationally. I vaguely recall Westwood boasting about it being the first PC game with a worldwide simultaneous release but that doesn't seem to be entirely true, then. It was the fastest selling non-sports EA published game at the time with 1.5 million sold within its first month.

I have a complicated relationship with this game. This was my first case of being burned by overhype. It was my most anticipated title I was waiting for in the late 90's. Westwood got the ball rolling really, really early by including a CGI teaser in the first Command & Conquer in 1995. It was around 1997 and 1998 when we started getting the first actual screenshots and information in magazine previews. The previews got me really excited over all the amazing features they were putting in the game. I remember them talking about stuff like how unit visibility was going to be affected by the dynamic lighting system and day/night cycle, and how this added a new tactical element by including lightposts/spotlights in the base building tied to your power. There was going to be a system for wind direction which would affect the spread of toxic gas and even spread forest fires. Units would be able to level up from gaining experience. You could zoom and rotate the map. Mutants were going to be their own faction with ingame agency responding in emergent ways to how either GDI or Nod treated them. Cities/villages with neutral factions were basically being hyped up as some kind of precursor to Oblivion's infamous Radiant AI. Ultimately, a lot of these ideas were either scrapped or implemented in a pretty half-baked way.
The previews were also the first instance where I noticed in hindsight some pretty blatant "bullshots", ie screenshots being doctored in post (not just tech being downgraded for release like Watch Dogs), with units, explosions, etc being composited on top.

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There was also this CGI trailer I got on a PC Gamer CD-Rom which was just the coolest shit:



The track played (Stomp) didn't make it into the final game (was instead recycled for Renegade in 2002), though the motifs were reused in other tracks. This will always be the actual TibSun theme for me and the equivalent to Red Alert's Hell March.

The live action FMVs took a departure from the standard C&C formula of the cast addressing the player in first person and instead gave them actual protagonist actors implied to be the players. This was the only C&C in which they did this AFAIK, and they even dropped it for the Firestorm expansion's FMVs going back to the tried and true formula. They went big with the casting for this game, getting Michael Biehn and James Earl Jones for GDI. While Nod got the main cast of Frank Zagarino and Monika Schnarre (alongside Joe Kucan as Kane, of course).

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The final product ended with most reviews in the 8/10 range. While still a very enjoyable game, the troubled years long dev cycle since Red Alert in 1996 had left its mark, and in the interim Blizzard had released Starcraft and radically changed the expectations for the RTS market. While mechs and all were cool, the pivot in the setting from near future to all out sci fi (to the point where they lifted units/tech straight out of their Dune games) also seemed to be a bit divisive. I think C&C3 dialing it back a bit for something inbetween TibDawn and TibSun was ultimately a good decision.

I think this might also have been the last RTS to have been fully developed by Westwood internally. Red Alert 2 was made by their Pacific subsidiary which got turned into EALA after the shutdown of the Las Vegas studio. There was also Emperor: Battle for Dune in 2001 but I'm pretty sure development of that was outsourced as well. The live action FMV and Frank Klepacki's music was most of what the actual Westwood did for those games AFAIK.

Tiberian Sun has been available for free since 2010. If you want to play TS today I think the better option is to use one of the modern engine enhancements to make it run better in a modern OS. The modding scene is quite active to this day, and unlike something like Doom source ports, since all of TS is free you can get a modern client with the full package included.

For vanilla TS the go-to seems to be Tiberian Sun Client. For mods actually changing the game content there's also no shortage of total conversions available at moddb.com. 2 of the most popular are Twisted Insurrection and Dawn of the Tiberium Age (these also run in their own dedicated clients so you don't have to bother with managing mods overriding the vanilla game. Very convenient.).
 

Flon

Is Here to Kill Chaos
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,120
I really liked this game. I have no idea just how many hours I must have sunk into it.

This, Red Alert 2 and The Sims were basically all I played during high school.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,093
Hull, UK
One of the absolute best. My older brother and I trawled around the shops in Hull looking for a copy at release. We found one in a small indie computer shop, and after buying it the shop keeper wanted to see how it played so we installed it on the demo PC there, playing it with the shop keeper for about an hour before heading home to play it for a month. Loved it.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
Just wondering, which PC game did have a worldwide simultaneous release first?

I remember one store here being open at midnight just for the Tiberian Sun launch, which was a big deal. I think i bought it on launch day, or maybe a day or two afterwards. It was also one of the first games i played online. I had a 33.6k modem at the time :)
 

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
I remember the hype, the delays, the disappointment. My friends pooled their money to gift it to me for my birthday but the game got delayed so they gave me an "IOU". At first I wanted to trade that for a game that was actually out, namely Age Of Empires 2 but they convinced me to stick with the planned gift.

Regarding bullshots, if you check the back of the Red Alert box there's similar doctoring going on so we shouldn't have been as surprised as we were.

TS just came off as archaic releasing so long after Total Annihilation.
 

orava

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 10, 2019
1,316
I liked the game a lot but i originally thought that it went a bit too far to scifi with the mechs and hovertanks compared to the original C&C.

I hope the C&C remaster is successful enough so that we get the sequels too.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
what a letdown it was. i was hyped and thought this would be the starcraft killer. Red Alert 2 was pretty good but at that point I didnt really bother with C&C anymore
 

snipe_25

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,167
Got this as soon as a could as a kid, given that I was a huge C&C fan. I was really excited to see where the story went in Tiberian Sun. I was pretty disappointed in what I got, and it started the decline of my C&C fandom (though I still enjoyed RA2). I was soooo hyped for it though.
 

Bombless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,580
My god, the number of times I watched that trailer....I don't remember where I got it though, it must've been on a cd of some kind, either a pc games mag demo disk or something else of the sort?
 
OP
OP
lazygecko

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
I remember the hype, the delays, the disappointment. My friends pooled their money to gift it to me for my birthday but the game got delayed so they gave me an "IOU". At first I wanted to trade that for a game that was actually out, namely Age Of Empires 2 but they convinced me to stick with the planned gift.

Regarding bullshots, if you check the back of the Red Alert box there's similar doctoring going on so we shouldn't have been as surprised as we were.

TS just came off as archaic releasing so long after Total Annihilation.

I remember going to a computer shop in January 1999 to see if the game had come out yet, which it hadn't. So in my disappointment I impulse purchased Fallout 2 instead. One of the best impulse purchases I have ever made.

I don't want to single out this game for the bullshots since it was pretty much an industry-wide practice at the time. There's a lot of oddities in those early TS shots though like Nod (I'm going to assume it's Nod since the units are red) having the classic GDI Mammoth Tanks.

A lot of the classic C&C units exist as voxel models in the game archives but aren't implemented in the game (I think the mutants have a few of them). I suspect they were made as early placeholder test assets when they were working on the voxel technology.
 

Soph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,503
These topics always make me feel so damn old.

Tiberian Sun was not my favourite.. but definitely still in the upper echelons of CC goodness around. Replayed the whole thing including addons about a year ago.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Absolutely loved this and played it a tonne even though I didn't own it.

I remember either playing it in my friends laptop with him on pc and we would play 3 or 4 person games where I would focus on ground troops and him bombers and eventually we would ally and wipe out the opponents. Pissed off so many players with that tactic 😂

Since I never had a pc or the Internet he would also lend me his laptop and somehow dial me into the game so I could play online at home with him.
 

NeoBob688

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,635
This was the original hyped as fuck game for me back in those days. I ultimately really enjoyed it.
 
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OP
lazygecko

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
Totally passed me by that Frank had been performing live band covers of TS tracks at last Magfest

 

Zed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,544
Totally passed me by that Frank had been performing live band covers of TS tracks at last Magfest



LOL @ the guy yelling "KANE LIVES! in the audience.

Kane is a great example of a charismatic cult leader. The "Kane lives!" cutscene is perhaps the most well known example of it, but the NOD final cut scene is another good showcase.



Anyway, Tiberian Sun has an atmosphere that really nails a depressing sci-fi future. It is a combination through the world itself, the music, and the janky late 90s vibe of it. I was really disappointed how toned back everything was in Tiberium Wars, even though the world has gone more to shit it doesn't really feel like it. It is a shame they never made Tiberian Twilight.

Yes I know EA released a game called "Tiberian Twilight", but let's pretend it doesn't exist.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,397
Ibis Island
Was never big on the soundtrack for this (though scouting is great). But the gameplay is easily some of the best in the entire C&C series. It's a shame that it doesn't get more love in that regard.
 

Kromis

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,502
SoCal
LOL @ the guy yelling "KANE LIVES! in the audience.

Kane is a great example of a charismatic cult leader. The "Kane lives!" cutscene is perhaps the most well known example of it, but the NOD final cut scene is another good showcase.



Anyway, Tiberian Sun has an atmosphere that really nails a depressing sci-fi future. It is a combination through the world itself, the music, and the janky late 90s vibe of it. I was really disappointed how toned back everything was in Tiberium Wars, even though the world has gone more to shit it doesn't really feel like it. It is a shame they never made Tiberian Twilight.

Yes I know EA released a game called "Tiberian Twilight", but let's pretend it doesn't exist.


I remember being so disappointed when there weren't any CG/green screen scenes in Tiberium Wars. I loved that 90s jank from Tiberian Sun! But I guess it would've cost too much money instead (I think the same can be said about Red Alert 3 although I don't remember much of it)
 

Sloane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,244
Yeah, I think that was the first overhyped game for me, too.

I remember driving to the local Saturn (think: Best Buy) more than a couple of times over the course of a week because nobody really knew when it was going to release, and there were always already a few guys / girls waiting there, too. Can't remember another game where that happened.

When I finally got it, first thing I did was tell my friends to hurry up buying it because they might not have enough copies for sale. Then, I beat the campaigns in, like, two days over the weekend.

Looking back, it's hard to tell how much I really liked it. The original C&C had been kinda mind-blowing back then, even coming from Dune 2 and Warcraft, and Red Alert had been fun, but Tiberian Sun... I guess, it was good but not great? I really can't tell.
 

Horror

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
1,997
Loved C&C and enjoyed the two Red Alert games. By the time Tiberian Sun came out I was disillusioned by the tank-rush battles the online multiplayer had resorted to and moved on.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
Ah, the first game that burned me out with endless, largely made up hype.

The bullshots and the unending stream of bullshit fed to the magazines really fucked with my expectations. CGI was glorious, but everything else was so by the numbers (when not outright botched, like the terrain system or even the game's performance, FFS) it looked like a big budget clone.

It nearly killed my interest in the series. Shame, really, because the plot went places.
 

Kaim Argonar

Member
Dec 8, 2017
2,268
Yup, this game was a massive let down back in the day. It was barely decent and that was it. When you get a barely decent game after what was one of the best RTSs ever, you can only be let down. Specially after such a big marketing push.

I just kept playing Starcraft and by the end of the month I was destroying AoE2 as if I remember well it came out by the end of September.
 

Teddy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,288
I remember borrowing this game from my brother, it was one of the first games I ever played. I enjoyed it of course (I had no idea what I was doing).

I replayed it a bit when it was released for free a couple years ago, it wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be but it didn't age too well.
 

Natasha Kerensky

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 18, 2019
262
Praha, CZ
This was such a hyped release, but I felt like when it released, it just wasn't as good as either C&C1 or Red Alert. There was just something about it.

I think it also turned way too sci-fi for me, whereas the first C&C had a nice blend between modern military and sci-fi designs. It felt a lot more grounded.
 

aznpxdd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,670
I was a StarCraft nut but I still loved this game. Man I feel old now, thanks OP.
 

Type422

Member
Nov 28, 2017
374
Now I feel old :( I can still remember the uproar about the bullshots released in previews :D
 

Corralx

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,176
London, UK
I could never get into the game.
I was a *huge* fan of C&C Red Alert and its expansions, Counterstrike and Aftermath.
But something was off in this mecha futuristic take of it, even tho too much time has passed for me to point out exactly what.

I'd love a remaster or even a proper faithful remake of Red Alert tho.
 

DocDeltree

Member
Jan 4, 2018
102
Even the installation setup of the CDs was a sight to behold. Always loved how alive the battlefield felt: freezing water and cracking ice, burning trees, artillery shells leaving huge craters in the deformable terrain... my favorite C&C by far. Used to mod the shit out of the rules.ini.
 

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,294
I found I liked it a lot more on a repeat playthrough many years later. My first impression was tinged with disappointment because it wasn't quite what I expected and I wished it hadn't gone so sci-fi. I missed the tanks basically.

Coming back to it with lower expectations and a more open mind helped me appreciate it more.
 

Mbolibombo

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,043
I played so much C&C, was hyped through the roof for this one, and then it came and was such a dissapointment.. It's probably my biggest letdown of all time.. possibly close to or behind Heroes of Might and Magic 4.

It didnt help the game that SC had released a year prior and was superior in every way. It was pretty much a reverse situation of Z and the original C&C :P
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,801
Ah, the game that got me into RTS. I miss it so much.

Btw, CNCnet has all of the now freeware games available for download with great compatibility patches and additional settings for their private multiplayer server. Highly recommend it for anyone feeling like going back to it.
 
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Zed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,544
I'm actually kind of surprised how many people did not like the sci-fi setting. It made sense to me since it was a game set in 2030 made in 1999 while Tiberian Dawn was made in 1995 and set in the late 90s.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
This is actually my favourite game in the tiberium Universe due to the Story being really good actually. While it has some pathing and Terrain Problems along with perf at Release, i think it has the unit types, Terrain Hazards (ore mutants, dogs, Mutant are amazing) and weird tech that makes me love C&C so much (cyborgs!).

Cabal is my favourite secret asshole.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
The story was definitely one of the highlights. OG C&C was good enough, but Tiberian Sun had some of the better developed plots in the genre, corny acting notwithstanding.
 
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OP
lazygecko

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
Can I buy a remake of Tiberian Sun? Keep the same graphics, just make it 4k.

There's basically a Tiberian Sun mod being made for every C&C game released after it. For C&C3 there's Tiberian Sun Rising (still unreleased)


Peak visual design for the C&C series.

One of the coolest things about the engine was its lighting tech which I think really felt a step beyond the competition for 2D isometric RTS. Sadly wasn't leveraged much in the vanilla game with only a few maps having day/night cycles and interesting light sources (and seemed to be abandoned altogether in Red Alert 2 even though the engine functionality was still very much there). There are some community made maps which go all out with the technicolor wasteland aesthetic that really pushes the atmosphere to 11.

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Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Ha, I still remember the years of anticipation, hype cover stories and the turbulent release of this game.

It was the first major bullshot "scandal" I've consciously witnessed in the industry with screenshots on the back of the box and in magazines far superior to the (still good) actual ingame graphics. It got somewhat trashed for it and the scandal narrative overshadowed its qualities at the time of release.

I still bought but never finished it. At the time, I found it a bit too futuristic for my C&C loving teenage self

Maybe I should go back to it. I miss 2D RTS games of yore greatly. When the genre went 3D, I lost interest. It never felt as good to me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
442
One of the coolest things about the engine was its lighting tech which I think really felt a step beyond the competition for 2D isometric RTS. Sadly wasn't leveraged much in the vanilla game with only a few maps having day/night cycles and interesting light sources (and seemed to be abandoned altogether in Red Alert 2 even though the engine functionality was still very much there). There are some community made maps which go all out with the technicolor wasteland aesthetic that really pushes the atmosphere to 11.

Very much agree. It really had unique lighting at the time. I remember those crystals after all these years. But the graphical features and FMV's I think played into the feeling that it was a series that was mostly flash, ultimately lacking the StarCraft substance. Unit mechanics just never quite came together as tightly as its primary contemporary.