It's a reasonable position to have. No need to condescend. This exact sort of situation is what makes these things tricky, and why many people settle for good but not great because it's more accessible.
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Bypassing Congress, Trump claims he will defer payroll tax, extend unemployment benefits as negotiations on coronavirus package stall (He can't)
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
- News COVID
It's a reasonable position to have. No need to condescend. This exact sort of situation is what makes these things tricky, and why many people settle for good but not great because it's more accessible.
It's gonna happen before that. Trump doesn't have the authority to stop evictions and landlords are not about to not evict a non-paying resident if they don't have to.
I don't agree that it's a reasonable position to have. We need to think of the many in a time like this, not the few.
So yah deferred just means you are gonna be requiring make a lump sum payment at tax time next year, no?
on the bright side, the 1200 is the easiest (and fastest method of support) to agree upon moving forward with whatever the bill looks like now. regardless of what Mitch may say about the trumps usual chaos, this wasn't a win for any of them in a right race.
the bill has more to it that both sides agree on in some structure... including the direct checks, PPP for small biz, testing/hospital $, school aid, childcare and whatever number of state aid they've been throwing around even if its nowhere near the amount the dems wanted.
overall the EO story is a mess waiting to happen for trump, the UI idea would take weeks to put into action, no one would get money anytime soon and it relies on states to work with a program that already moves at a snails pace in many cases... and thats entertaining it being allowed to happen, how states would work with it in the first place. hes setting himself up for a mess when many are looking for help ASAP.
the one EO he did sign dosent even do anything to halt evictions, its all fluff and when the receipts don't add up he'll look like a naked emperor again.
Do we have data that most of the people laid off right now are making around $3000 a month? Arizona pays about $200 a week plus the $600. In my experience most people laid off are people in the service industry that make way less than that but maybe I'm wrong.
Can't use Arizona as a baseline since we literally have the lowest unemployment assistance in the country. It's atrocious.
Nope.
I'm looking at the economic studies of the impact of the $600 and basing my argument on that.
So is the congressional month break starting August 10th still on,. or are they cancelling it to try to get something done?
Well that's true, but even still, $3000 a month seems minimum and outside of like costal cities I'd think most people are not making over $3000 a month. The argument put forward by that poster is that $600 a week plus whatever the state pays is not enough for most laid off.
And again, I'm not arguing that $3000 a month or even a little more is a lot of money. I'm arguing that people need money NOW to survive. And $2000 a month or close to it should work wonders for a lot of people in emergency status.
States will likely have standing to sue due to the $100 required of them, though it is unlikely the current Supreme Court will side against the president due to the current makeup. They will likely say states don't have to kick in the $100 but they won't stop the $300. Congress will do nothing because Republicans have abdicated their power to the president.
They should just cede their authority and make their dear leader a dictator at this point. There are countless former members of Congress rolling in their graves right now.
This is absolutely DISGUSTING. I fucking loathe Republicans.
No, he doesn't. Cutting the payroll tax would destroy both Social Security & Medicare.
A writer at The Bulwark, apparently. Bio: Christian Vanderbrouk served eight years in the George W. Bush administration, and later managed global affairs and government relations at the New York Stock Exchange.
What is this guy even talking about. Dems can down one trillion to meet republicans in the middle at 2 trillion.
So is this it? Will the Senate even bother to figure this out before the election now? Or are they going to take their vacation and let the courts figure it out?
I think the court will side with him less because of makeup and more because the Roberts court has shown preference to a loose use of executive orders (DACA, Obama's discretion on ACA taxes, etc).
The GOP senators are probably applauding this because it saves them from doing any actual work, as they have proven time and time that they are unable to govern.
ok, so you all need to be made very clear how incredibly fucked up the payroll tax deferral portion of this all is. The average citizen is completely FUCKED, assuming this holds.
- If Trump loses, Americans will have to pay back THREE MONTHS of payroll tax deferrals next year. During a PANDEMIC and historic RECESSION.
- If Trump wins and makes the cuts permanent, as he's claiming, The GOP just DESTROYED both Social Security and Medicare. They will no longer be properly funded and will collapse (and how the fuck is it legal for a President to withhold taxes, then claim he won't make you pay them back, so long as you re-elect him???....this is so beyond fucked).
This is un-fucking-believable. It's time for a revolution. Your government HATES you.
- If Trump loses, Americans will have to pay back THREE MONTHS of payroll tax deferrals next year. During a PANDEMIC and historic RECESSION.
- If Trump wins and makes the cuts permanent, as he's claiming, The GOP just DESTROYED both Social Security and Medicare. They will no longer be properly funded and will collapse (and how the fuck is it legal for a President to withhold taxes, then claim he won't make you pay them back, so long as you re-elect him???....this is so beyond fucked).
This is un-fucking-believable. It's time for a revolution. Your government HATES you.
Eh, yes and no. Cutting the payroll tax really wouldn't inherently do anything to the program by itself, it's just a perilous issue politically because the separation of funding is effectively a safeguard protecting social security and medicare from the liberal "bUt hoW dO we PaY foR iT?" crowd.
It doesn't matter if you're funding SS & Medicare from general revenues or the current trust funds, the trust funds are mostly there to say "from the trust fund" when someone asks the aforementioned question. The federal government operates in a currency it controls and thus there wouldn't be any actual risk to the continued operation of those programs if they had to be operated without the segmentation, moving it just allows us to dodge some political fights we've thankfully been able to avoid.
In a roundabout way, yes, it imperils the programs, but it imperils the programs not because they can't operate, but because it makes them more susceptible to politicians looking to destroy the programs.
Oh hey it's nothing. Who could have seen that coming.
No and he can't.
The GOP controlled senate has zero reason to do anything now.
nah. Aca taxes at least had congressional legislation backing. The only workable part of this without congressional approval is the payroll tax deferment. It's a deferment because the president can't remove the payroll tax unilaterally. However, the president has the power to decide which regulations he wants to enforce to a large degree so he can instruct the irs as a federal agency not to collect.
This. I don't want to be involved on this if they will ask it back next year.
Not necessarily compromise, but agree to work on what's called skinny bills, which wouldn't include the voter items etc. It would just be evictions, unemployment, 1200 dollar checks. Those are things most in both parties want. By going hardline, they're making a stand, but a lot of innocent people who support them will be hurt by it. You're not wrong to feel how you do.
And I'm telling you that people wanting 400 right now so they don't starve is not unreasonable just because there is a possibility to have more. Dismissing those positions simply because you feel there is a better solution is as short sighted as the people settling.
I guarantee you Trump has absolutely no idea what the payroll tax even entails. He probably heard his dad moaning about it in the 80's, which means it's real bad.
What about this situation we are in, in which unemployed people are currently getting nothing and may not get anything for the foreseeable future, makes you think being unemployed is better than being employed right now? What you've said makes no sense given the current circumstances.
I'd say there's a decent chance you're not going to see it anyway. Many companies aren't going to turn on a dime to passthrough the extra funds, and half the payroll tax comes out of the employer's pocket.
It seems very possible that a lot of companies don't adjust their employees' payroll tax deductions, the company just sits on that money until later.
It was already reported a few weeks ago that switching from $600 to any other number would likely take unemployment around a month to implement according to the experts.
If it does, I'll be sure to put it away and not touch it. I can only imagine how many people would spend that money and be fucked when they don't have it to pay back next year.
These people are dumb as fuck. All the Dems have to do is have Biden go out there and say he'll give everyone the $600 Dems have already passed. Trump is robbing them of an extra $200.
"Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell are tearing up the Constitution to cheat you out of an extra $200 a week."
It won't, he can't do this through executive order, the executive branch doesn't have the money for it and the states don't either. He might as well have had a press conference showing off the toilet paper he just wiped his ass with for all the good it does anyone.
yeah, but people don't really know that. and nobody is going to remind them. Republicans fight for less money, Trump unconstitutionally declares less money, and that's... a win for Republicans?
"Are Democrats gonna sue our great Prez to keep money away from people?!"