If the shift has started happening in academia, expect real social movement in about 2-3 decades.
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Busting Male Rape Myths: Why Male Rape is de-emphasized, underreported, and ignored.
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If the shift has started happening in academia, expect real social movement in about 2-3 decades.
OP
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Yeah unfortunately that's probably best-case scenario. Of course the fact that there are well-known male celebs speaking out about being abused or harassed has helped slightly, even if it's only a few.
Thanks OP, you put a lot of work into it, and its really helpful.
What has always kind of mystified me is that, as the OP points out, rape and abuse aren't inherently gendered behaviors. They can happen to anyone, and be perpetrated by anyone, and so a lot of work needs to be done to really reinforce that.
Because two things can be true at once. A man raping/abusing a woman is bad, and it doesn't detract at all the real evil of the first act to go 'and a woman raping/abusing a man is bad'. Trying to do or say anything other than both are bad, and neither should have happened in addition to doing real harm (the harm is in the message that 'you are not a person worthy of good treatment by others') prolongs the road to recovery.
What has always kind of mystified me is that, as the OP points out, rape and abuse aren't inherently gendered behaviors. They can happen to anyone, and be perpetrated by anyone, and so a lot of work needs to be done to really reinforce that.
Because two things can be true at once. A man raping/abusing a woman is bad, and it doesn't detract at all the real evil of the first act to go 'and a woman raping/abusing a man is bad'. Trying to do or say anything other than both are bad, and neither should have happened in addition to doing real harm (the harm is in the message that 'you are not a person worthy of good treatment by others') prolongs the road to recovery.
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People believe in the male perpetrator/female victim paradigm because for a long time that was the only accepted paradigm for sexual assault and abuse. It is also the most common form, so it's not like the traditional paradigm comes out of nowhere, but the degree to which it is the most common is significantly less than previously thought.
It's important to remember that it's only been in the last 50 years or so that child abuse was acknowledged as a real problem and source of trauma. So prior to that even the idea of what rape was or could be was incredibly narrow.
The discussion around this issue is somewhat poisoned because of the GG/MRA/incel movements of the early 10s, so it's hard for some internet folk to take the issue seriously when they had to spend a few years of their life telling disingenuous "men's right activists" to stfu. It ends up with a lot of friendly fire.
I can't really contribute anything substantial but I think this is a valuable thread and an important part of talking about problems that need to be talked about.
Notorious Virginian socialist/representative, Lee Carter, recently talked openly about his spousal abuse and was mocked and derided by people on "both sides".
I can't really contribute anything substantial but I think this is a valuable thread and an important part of talking about problems that need to be talked about.
Notorious Virginian socialist/representative, Lee Carter, recently talked openly about his spousal abuse and was mocked and derided by people on "both sides".
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Nope, it hasn't been posted yet but this is very much appreciated since none of the information I provided is about sexual assault in the military.
I would say that culturally, another problem is how polluted sexuality is in terms of gender dynamics. Stuff like relationships in Persona 5, and a lot of how pornography portrays such dynamics, is totally messed up. It encourages male audiences to buy into the myth that being taken advantage by women is something to be proud of or satisfying. So if you find yourself in a situation where you don't feel that way, you think that something might be wrong with you even though you're "lucky" to have that chance.
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Do MRAs or incels actually talk about this issue at all? It seems they mostly advocate for women deserving to be assaulted and men who are assaulted being weak or 'cucks' or 'betas' etc., typical extreme misogynist and toxic masculinity bullshit.
I was at a party throwing up all over and couldn't walk and girl took me into a room. Don't remember it and don't think I could move. Would never have ever done something with her sexually.
Didn't really know how to react to that. Guy friends just kind of laughed it off as me hooking up with this disgusting girl.
Didn't really know how to react to that. Guy friends just kind of laughed it off as me hooking up with this disgusting girl.
No they don't, at least never that I saw. Occasionally they'd bring up some of the domestic abuse stats but they never followed through, the movements were always too mired in toxic masculinity and self-pity to be productive.
It seems to me its based on the idea that sex requires an erection, and an erection requires you to be sexually stimulated. And if you're sexually stimulated its not rape.BBC had an eye opening article, didn't even realise our laws are so bad.
"When a man has penetrative sex with a woman without her consent, that's rape. But what if a woman makes a man have penetrative sex with her, without his consent? That's not rape under the law of England and Wales".
Forced penetration: If a woman forces a man to have sex, is that rape?
When a man has sex with a woman without consent, that's rape. Should it be rape when a woman coerces a man into sex?www.bbc.co.uk
Which of course is all completely wrong.
(bad analogy time HERE WE GO) Its like saying "It wasn't murder, I poisoned a cake! He probably enjoyed eating it" (bad analogy over)
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Yeah media plays a big role in how this issue is viewed by the average person, and porn is definitely a big contributor to problematic views of power abuse by women. The same applies to porn glorifying domination or even rape of women by men, and this subject becomes really complicated in regards to porn/sexual fantasy because taboo breaking is universally appealing in sexual fantasy contexts. Many women have rape fantasies; many men have abuse fantasies. I don't think shaming people for sexual fantasies is productive, but at the same people need to be able to distinguish between fiction and reality and not let those clearly taboo fantasies affect how they view real-world incidents.
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I'm not going to tell you how you should feel about what happened to you, but you were raped.
That's what I figured. I mean the domestic abuse stats being way more equal than what was previously thought are also true; 40% of domestic violence victims are men. I didn't touch on that data at all in the OP because I wanted to focus specifically on sexual assault and abuse, but that's another area in which male victims were excluded or ignored for a long time.
Right, that's why Stemple and Meyer's paper focuses so much on 'made to penetrate' incidences, to try and dispel the false notion that erection = consent or that rape requires penetration of the victim.
OH MY GOD, YES! I read so many articles stating that the film was a feminist work, a celebration of freedom, that the "villain" got what he deserved. Meanwhile I was just in horror at a film that clearly viewed this a karmic punishment. I was freakin pissed.
Unfortunately yes they do. They usually bring it up in response to woman saying men need to help act to save woman getting raped, as some sort of pseudo "not all men" kind of response.
It's hugely prevalent in online discussions and this topic, fair or not, has to accept that. My first instinct before reading the OP was "great, another MRA / red piller coming into resetera again."
These studies, what are they drawing from? Are they including prison assaults as well? Or just on young people?
Like I get this could be part of the problem but I just can't see the amount of men being assaulted in this way like women are. Like men are more heavily featured in just general prison, assault and violent crimes in general, how is it that different when it comes to sexual violence? I'm skeptical they these studies are the only ones to see the light so to speak. But later today when I get some time I'll read up on them. Happy to admit I'm wrong if so.
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Were these male or female critics saying the film was feminist? Just curious.
But yeah there is nothing that jives with intersectional feminism in a story where the 'karmic justice' is the murder of a male rape victim. Pretty gross stuff, I'm glad I haven't seen the film.
I saw a mix of both genders claiming it as feminst, but it was biased toward female reviewers. The only look at it from the perspective of male SA I could find was from a gay man. There were many problems with Midsommar, but that was the only one that really left me pissed when I walked out of the theater.
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I sincerely hope the OP doesn't give off the impression of MRA/red pill crap. I don't think those groups genuinely care about rape anyhow considering how much they buy into toxic masculinity which does nothing but harm male victims and make it harder for them to speak out.
Otherwise it seems you've bought into some of the male rape myths that I'm trying to dispel in the first place. I provided all the sources of my information in the OP itself, so please do take a look at them directly and not just what I've quoted in the OP. All of the sources I've posted have meticulously catalogued where all their data comes from, and they are all reputable scholarly research sources.
Most of the data comes from national sexual violence victim surveys, which gather data from across the entire country from both men and women. Additionally, data is gathered from prison surveys established after the Prison Rape Elimination Act, and those surveys are also conducted with men and women. Some of the data is focused on sexual abuse of minors as well.
The prison data, since you specifically seem skeptical of that, is done proportionally. So yes since there are more men in prison the total number of prison rapes of men are going to be higher, but these studies also look at what the rates are proportionally to the male prison population vs. the female prison population. These surveys found that men are more likely to be raped in prison overall, and that men report more rapes from staff, but that women actually report more rapes from fellow inmates than men do. So basically men are more likely to be raped in prison, and they are more likely to be raped by staff. Women are slightly less likely to be raped in prison, but those who are raped are more likely to be raped by other inmates.
If you want further clarification I can provide that.
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I don't mean to derail this topic by going off on a tangent about something highly specific, but there's something I've always wondered about and this seems like the most appropriate thread to broach the subject.
In recent years we've all become aware of the rampant sexual abuse of children by priests, and also by teachers. The scandals have got me thinking about other situations involving kids and their natural deference to adults in positions of authority.
So I guess my question is, growing up when you were a pre-teen and you received your annual physical, was it normal for you to always receive a testicular cancer exam? And if so, was the exam relatively painless and over quickly, or could it be physically painful (involving squeezing) and last for upwards of a minute or two? Also, was it common for your parent not to be in the room for that portion of the examination?
Again, I'm sorry to the extent this seems like derailing. This is just something I've thought about quite a bit in recent years, and since people are being so forthcoming in this topic this is first time I've felt (semi) comfortable asking these questions.
In recent years we've all become aware of the rampant sexual abuse of children by priests, and also by teachers. The scandals have got me thinking about other situations involving kids and their natural deference to adults in positions of authority.
So I guess my question is, growing up when you were a pre-teen and you received your annual physical, was it normal for you to always receive a testicular cancer exam? And if so, was the exam relatively painless and over quickly, or could it be physically painful (involving squeezing) and last for upwards of a minute or two? Also, was it common for your parent not to be in the room for that portion of the examination?
Again, I'm sorry to the extent this seems like derailing. This is just something I've thought about quite a bit in recent years, and since people are being so forthcoming in this topic this is first time I've felt (semi) comfortable asking these questions.
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I don't consider this a derail. I'm not a physician so I have no idea what is ethically appropriate in terms of the profession, and I can only tell you what I've personally experienced. When I was an adolescent, my testicular exams were around 30 seconds in length and while pressure was typical, pain was not. The doctor always did them and parents were never in the room for me. If those experiences made you uncomfortable or were painful it's possible they were inappropriate but I'm not in any position to know one way or the other. Maybe other posters here are physicians and could weigh in.
By the way thank you OP for this thread. Downplaying and making light of the sexual assault of men is so widespread, so ubiquitous, threads like these are important in raising awareness.
I don't recall when I started taking this more seriously myself, but I was guilty of that too, until recent years at least. Laughed at prison rape jokes/TV gags, only took "violent" male-on-male rape seriously as rape, etc.
I now remember at least two incidents where a male acquaintance related their assault in my presence. Both were over ten years ago (one was near 20 years ago now, geez). One guy was in a gaming chatroom and told his story to the group, about a woman he didn't like forcing herself on him, he might have been drunk. It was so long ago, almost two decades, and I really can't remember any details or how we reacted. I think he got some sympathy, but also jokes or jeers. Like just "lol sucks to be you bro", probably. I can't remember though. >_<
I feel even worse for the other incident though. It was over a decade ago and involved co-workers. A female co-worker basically got a male co-worker drunk at an office party, and raped him. The male co-worker and I got along well and we kind of buddies, we'd crack jokes, roasted each other all the time etc. But this time he got pretty serious and he confided in me over chat messaging about what happened. I don't recall what I wrote back, but I think I would be ashamed of it if I read it today. I'd like to think I was supportive, but if I'm being realistic and honest, I probably cracked shitty jokes and... fuck. Wish I could go back and apologize to that guy.
Well, don't want to make this about me. But this goes to show why topics like these are so important, mostly for people to have a space to share their stories of course, but also to educate idiots like my younger ignorant self. I hope it helps some people open their eyes.
I don't recall when I started taking this more seriously myself, but I was guilty of that too, until recent years at least. Laughed at prison rape jokes/TV gags, only took "violent" male-on-male rape seriously as rape, etc.
I now remember at least two incidents where a male acquaintance related their assault in my presence. Both were over ten years ago (one was near 20 years ago now, geez). One guy was in a gaming chatroom and told his story to the group, about a woman he didn't like forcing herself on him, he might have been drunk. It was so long ago, almost two decades, and I really can't remember any details or how we reacted. I think he got some sympathy, but also jokes or jeers. Like just "lol sucks to be you bro", probably. I can't remember though. >_<
I feel even worse for the other incident though. It was over a decade ago and involved co-workers. A female co-worker basically got a male co-worker drunk at an office party, and raped him. The male co-worker and I got along well and we kind of buddies, we'd crack jokes, roasted each other all the time etc. But this time he got pretty serious and he confided in me over chat messaging about what happened. I don't recall what I wrote back, but I think I would be ashamed of it if I read it today. I'd like to think I was supportive, but if I'm being realistic and honest, I probably cracked shitty jokes and... fuck. Wish I could go back and apologize to that guy.
Well, don't want to make this about me. But this goes to show why topics like these are so important, mostly for people to have a space to share their stories of course, but also to educate idiots like my younger ignorant self. I hope it helps some people open their eyes.
Thanks for the response and, again, sorry for going off on a bit of a tangent. I don't want to distract from many of the real, harrowing experiences that have been posted in this thread. They've been eye opening for me.
Your post is also very reassuring. One of the problems with childhood memories is how distorted they can get with time. I know that if you're overly sensitive, things may seem like they lasted longer than they did, or were more painful then they actually were.
Anyway, thanks for this thread. It never occurred to me how pervasive a problem male rape is; I always thought it was extremely rare outside of very specific circumstances due to how casually and callously it's brushed over by society/ the media.
TW: graphic details of a rape situation
This is something that's extremely important to be understood when having the discussion of male rape. And it's something that people who have never been raped as a man do not really understand. Erection is almost entirely unavoidable if you're being stimulated in certain areas. This is exactly what took me years to shake when I was raped because I was erect almost the entire time and I had to detangle that and the thought that I must have wanted it from the reality that I had two men use me and penetrate me multiple times without ever asking for my consent or taking measures to guarantee my safety in terms of tying me down to a bench or in the penetration itself.
It's so difficult for men and society at large to wrap their brains around the fact that men cannot control their erections or even orgasms if their erogenous zones are being repeatedly rubbed and touched. It's not pleasurable. It's confusing and horribly traumatic. You cannot even comprehend the feelings going through your body in that moment, you are on auto pilot until it's done and then you are by yourself to figure out what the hell just happened. If you were drunk, it's difficult to even remember if you liked it or not and that tortures you forever. Being sober you have to relive that memory in clarity for the rest of your life.
There needs to be education in this area, it has to start being taken seriously for any sort of progress. I can tell you, feeling pleasure during a rape is one of the most traumatic, horrible things that a person can experience. It leaves you hollow for years, you don't know who you even are, it throws your entire sexuality out of balance, you're not sure if you can ever trust what you even like sexually from then on without years of therapy. And the worst part is the shame you give yourself for letting yourself be used in that way in the first place because society goes on like normal, cracking jokes about male rape or shaming men who are raped.
It's been extremely frustrating in a lot of ways not knowing how to do something about it, how to educate folks because of the reality that society is just not really in the place it needs to be to have this discussion yet. So, for now, I'm just waiting. But I really hope these conversations happen more frequently, because the less it's talked about, the more men become victims who live with shame for being a victim of a violent sexual act.
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Part of making progress on this issue is admitting when we've fallen short. You aren't the only one who has bought into male rape myths, even men who have been assaulted or abused by into them (including myself). All that matters is that you've become educated on the topic and have a greater understanding. The only way to move forward is to accept that people have had harmful views on this subject before, but can still have their perspective shifted to the reality of the situation and form a greater understanding.
It also takes a lot of courage to admit you were wrong, so I commend you for that. It's kind of a cliché platitude but in this case it is still true: nobody is perfect.
Thank you for telling your story here. I find the best way to explain that erections don't mean consent is to compare it to female physiological reactions during sex, since people are typically more familiar/accepting of female victimization. It's pretty well documented that oftentimes the vagina will lubricate even during rape, because while that typically is a sign of arousal during consensual sex, it is ALSO a normal and uncontrollable reaction by the body to stimulation of any kind. The same is true of erections, during consensual encounters they are a sign of arousal, but they are also an uncontrollable reaction to physical stimulation.
I would imagine that this is likely something that has a spectrum between normal and abnormal. I'm not a physician either so it is just speculation. I honestly have pretty much no memories of seeing a general physician as a child but did have to see a specialist for this sort of check as a teen. I had some cysts that were in sensitive areas so they got checked regularly for a number of years. There was some discomfort certainly from the cysts but it was also something that wasn't comfortable from a situational standpoint so it might be difficult to untangle the two different kinds of bad. It's also something that's likely to get distorted in a negative way over time if it's given much thought.
In my case it was a trusted physician with whom I had both professional and personal "friend of the family" relationships with for a couple decades. There was absolutely no misconduct but to this day it's the sort of thing I won't tolerate a partner doing for pleasure. I had always assumed it was just in the "don't like" category but it's possible that even under these circumstances it left some sort of mental mark.
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It's ok, this thread is meant to be a safe space for people to talk about their experiences and ask questions. Testicular exams are necessary because testicular cancer can occur in adolescents/young adults (I know a 19 year old who was just diagnosed with testicular cancer in fact), but it's also possible that doctors could learn better ways of performing exams to minimize discomfort. It's an important issue to raise even if it seems tangential to this thread, so I'm glad you brought it up.
Exactly, that's a great way to frame it for people who don't have a clear grasp of how something like that happens. It's a biological function responding to a stimulus designed to arouse and ejaculate. Your brain is completely separated from it, even you're screaming at yourself to stop. Your body will not stop blood flow nor will it cease nerve endings from functioning.
If you're being groped or touched by someone and you respond with an erection and you did not consent and you are extremely uncomfortable. You are a victim of a sexual assault. If someone penetrates you without consent and you respond with an erection, you are still a victim of rape.
It's a hard thing for men to come to grips with, it took me years. But that first step is knowing the truth because you are your own worse enemy and you're really good at lying to yourself.
I think the expectation that all males enjoy sex no matter was as both social status and physical stimulation is the main thing that makes the entire situation so insidious for them.
Being told you were supposed to ENJOY a traumatic experience against your will is already bad enough, not to mention the special kind of mindfuck that happens when you may feel your body has "betrayed" you by having an orgasm or something similar. Many female victims do have that experience: having an orgasm during an assault, causing extreme cognitive dissonance and shame and even hatred of one's body. This probably is even more common an occurence for male victims if only because of their general biological setup (I'm not a guy, but my assumption is they achieve orgasm more easily through pure physical stimulation). I think you can imagine how much that messes with a person trying to determine What Exactly Happened To Me And What Am I Supposed To Feel?
I am not suprised there's probably a lot of men walking around with a lot of emotional baggage because they don't even know where to begin to sort their experiences out. And given the way society encourages male anger and aggression as their sole acceptable emotion, it's probably not shocking that's going to be the avenue many choose to act out their traumas.
Being told you were supposed to ENJOY a traumatic experience against your will is already bad enough, not to mention the special kind of mindfuck that happens when you may feel your body has "betrayed" you by having an orgasm or something similar. Many female victims do have that experience: having an orgasm during an assault, causing extreme cognitive dissonance and shame and even hatred of one's body. This probably is even more common an occurence for male victims if only because of their general biological setup (I'm not a guy, but my assumption is they achieve orgasm more easily through pure physical stimulation). I think you can imagine how much that messes with a person trying to determine What Exactly Happened To Me And What Am I Supposed To Feel?
I am not suprised there's probably a lot of men walking around with a lot of emotional baggage because they don't even know where to begin to sort their experiences out. And given the way society encourages male anger and aggression as their sole acceptable emotion, it's probably not shocking that's going to be the avenue many choose to act out their traumas.
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It's interesting going back to so called progressive tv shows, and find jokes about male rape in them. Maybe that's the sort of edgy humour one would expect from say, family guy. But it's even in the Simpsons, played off for a cheap laugh.
I also like, how, when I mention it, I see comments "ohh poor white guy, how fragile are you". I mean in this sense, that I was not able to overpowered someone who was far stronger, older than I was. Like in 12 years old, what did I should do in that situation? And what the fuck does my skin color does it do with anything, I am from predominately white country.
Only after that I understand struggle of people with different distribution of melanin over their body.
I think that also in my position, is bad, that everybody on the internet presume, that I am from USA, because we filthy slavs only have dial-ups or some shit like that. Even though here situation is better.
It's fair to say, that with coming upfront with my issue, I came across many other social issues and frankly is overwhelming, but I somewhat want to let the world know, that it happens. Because it DOES.
Only after that I understand struggle of people with different distribution of melanin over their body.
I think that also in my position, is bad, that everybody on the internet presume, that I am from USA, because we filthy slavs only have dial-ups or some shit like that. Even though here situation is better.
It's fair to say, that with coming upfront with my issue, I came across many other social issues and frankly is overwhelming, but I somewhat want to let the world know, that it happens. Because it DOES.
I never realized that the incidence rates were so similar between genders. I mean, I knew that male victims were more likely to not report anything, but I didn't know that the actual percentages were so similar. Crazy. Glad I learned something.
Excellent OP.
Excellent OP.
They like throw around numbers (rape, domestic abuse, suicide etc) as cheap gotchers and as whataboutisms.
Rather tellingly, they only talk about it when it's used to seemingly make other people look bad, but never address these problems in any meaningful way.
It wasn't until the past couple years ago that I had really considered that I had been sexually assaulted, it's not something I've shared with anyone so I'm not sure why I'm sharing it here. My first job working at a restaurant in 8th grade, I was a dish washer and there was an 11th grade boy who came up behind me on a couple different occasions and groped my ass for like 10 seconds. He was the cocky, popular kid there and I was pretty shy and introverted and I was so shocked by it I didn't know how to respond. I felt violated and shook by it, I can't imagine what those who have gone through much more difficult experiences went through.
I had something happen to me when I was between 5-8 but I mean it didn't scar me or change my life or was anything just vastly horrible. I think it was my grandma's friend's kids had come over. They were siblings.....a girl much older (probably early double digits like 12 or 13 or something, maybe a little older but she definitely wasn't in high school) and a boy that was close in age to me. I remember her being kinda mean, and she came up with the idea to play "house" in the den and I was gonna be the dad so I was cool with it. Then she says something like "parents have sex" so we go inside the lil makeshift tent thing we made and she just starts dry humping me. The she had me hump her. I had no idea what was going on so I just kinda ran with it, it didn't really seem to bother me (I guess cause I didn't know any better)
The next incident happened I wanna say maybe a year or so later when my grandma moved (I lived with her) and they came to visit again but this time with another girl, I'm not sure if this girl was kin to them or just a friend or what...but this time playing house wasn't involved and she and her friend straight up wanted to have sex and was like "when everybody leaves we're gonna do it". I guess luckily we didn't cause the night before I think I had peed in the bed and didnt tell anyone/change my underwear and my grandma or aunt had found out...so I got in trouble and I guess it "killed the desire"
I don't remember the boy's name but he was pretty cool but I definitely remember his older sister's name....it was Chiquita....like the brand of banana. I don't remember the other girl from the second "time" though
The next incident happened I wanna say maybe a year or so later when my grandma moved (I lived with her) and they came to visit again but this time with another girl, I'm not sure if this girl was kin to them or just a friend or what...but this time playing house wasn't involved and she and her friend straight up wanted to have sex and was like "when everybody leaves we're gonna do it". I guess luckily we didn't cause the night before I think I had peed in the bed and didnt tell anyone/change my underwear and my grandma or aunt had found out...so I got in trouble and I guess it "killed the desire"
I don't remember the boy's name but he was pretty cool but I definitely remember his older sister's name....it was Chiquita....like the brand of banana. I don't remember the other girl from the second "time" though
Probably just MRAs that want to have that Tumbler-esque "righteous anger". Usually I've seen child support stories more than anything in that realm though.
Maybe there is a contingent of MRAs out there that understands that solving toxic masculinity can address almost all of these issues. Although I can't imagine anyone could seriously call themselves an "MRA" with all the baggage the term carries now.
I wasn't physically sexually abused as a teen, but I was groomed by an older friend online. It was. It was very traumatic and it affects me to this day. I don't like the kind of person it made me, how it warped my values even to adulthood. In addition to encouraging disgusting and cruel acts on my own part it made me internalize my own homophobia out of shame and likely helped keep me from realizing I was non-binary and bisexual for years.
I think a big thing that needs to be talked about in this, is how not only can it be traumatic and underreported, but also that those men, or in my case people who presented as men, who are victimized and manipulated this way can end up perpetuating the cycle of abuse. Especially when it's not face to face, people will act like it's not real, or downplay it, locking those who are victims into potential further manipulation.
I think a big thing that needs to be talked about in this, is how not only can it be traumatic and underreported, but also that those men, or in my case people who presented as men, who are victimized and manipulated this way can end up perpetuating the cycle of abuse. Especially when it's not face to face, people will act like it's not real, or downplay it, locking those who are victims into potential further manipulation.
User Banned (1 Month): Misrepresenting feminism; Blaming feminism for rape culture, Inflammatory commentary
I think that laying this all at the feet of toxic masculinity is a disservice, it is much more complicated than that. Feminism also plays a big role. Just look at the guy in this thread who was date raped while drunk and then had to qualify that he wasn't trying to equate the impact to what a women who was date raped in the exact same time way would feel. That isn't toxic masculinity, that's a fear of equating a man's experience of sexual assault with a women's, which the current feminist view on sexual assault considers unacceptable.
?????
Maybe I'm misreading your post, and of course feminism comes in all forms, but most feminist authors/scholars/activists worth their salt focus more on men's issues than actual men do, and absolutely do not consider male victims to be lesser than women victims.
This issue is not the fault of feminism. That's just another unnecessary derail of a good thread.
I would say what you're describing is the definition of toxic masculinity. You're a man so there is no way you can be raped like a woman. The reason raped men and even date-raped man don't report it is because they are supposed to be"the man. "
You have actual testimonials in this thread of people saying that they didn't think they were raped because men don't get raped.
To try to lay this even remotely at the feet of feminism sounds like an MRA talking point even if you didn't mean it that way.
Rape admittance of both men and women is so fucking hard to solve because the law will never be good enough to help all victims. victims will always see other victims fail at justice and decide to never try. Its all a fucking bummer.
Thanks for this thread.
The biggest take away i have from this and all my research on female rape victims. It happens exponentially more than we think, and it will never get better until consent is taught at a young age.
Thanks for this thread.
The biggest take away i have from this and all my research on female rape victims. It happens exponentially more than we think, and it will never get better until consent is taught at a young age.
Thank you for writing this, OP. I'm dealing with something recent, and have been back and forth on exactly what took place. I'm choosing to acknowledge it as "people should keep their hands to their selves and not feel in any way entitled to touch another person without their explicit consent".
That said, I'm still really, really creeped out by what happened and by who did it. It would cause significant issues were I to take action on it, so I'm doing what I can to make due, and remove myself from situations where I see and/or interact with the individual. My wife is a wonderful, supportive person. I'm eternally grateful for that, and so I consider myself fortunate in that regard.
That said, I'm still really, really creeped out by what happened and by who did it. It would cause significant issues were I to take action on it, so I'm doing what I can to make due, and remove myself from situations where I see and/or interact with the individual. My wife is a wonderful, supportive person. I'm eternally grateful for that, and so I consider myself fortunate in that regard.
It really isn't taken seriously. I've been sexually harrassed by both men and women as an adult, I rarely talk about the uncomfortable encounters due to fear of the reactions, which can be worse than the incident.
Once I was in a conference, traveling with a small group. It was over night event, so I ended up in a bar with some other attendees. There was this middle aged woman who smelled like cigarettes, cheap perfume and stale beer from another organization. Long story short, her tongue was soon in my ear, I bailed out at the first opportunity I could find. This is not the main story.
Next day on the way back home, I was sitting with my group in a train (window seat, someone sitting next to me, seats were facing each other). I was just glad to survive that shit party the previous night and into the train, when the woman sitting next to me started telling the others "Hey, did you hear what happened to Jasup last night? Stale beer lady was very keen on him", and the others laughed: "Oh, you like older ladies Jasup?" "Do you need your ears cleaned?" "Is she your girlfriend now?" etc. for at least a full hour.
What was worse, the woman sitting next to me ramped up the teasing and started tickling me, "do you like older woman's touch loverboy? *tickle* *tickle*" My arm first, then my thighs. The others were laughing hysterically. Eventually they started realizing what was happening, maybe because at this point I was quite angrily pushing the groperwoman's hands away from me, and the laughing stopped. And when there was no support for "jokingly" groping, the groperwoman eventually stopped too after few failed attempts of jokes and I could really finally say that I didn't appreciate the experience.
I'm a big guy, when I get harrassed It's funny.
Once I was in a conference, traveling with a small group. It was over night event, so I ended up in a bar with some other attendees. There was this middle aged woman who smelled like cigarettes, cheap perfume and stale beer from another organization. Long story short, her tongue was soon in my ear, I bailed out at the first opportunity I could find. This is not the main story.
Next day on the way back home, I was sitting with my group in a train (window seat, someone sitting next to me, seats were facing each other). I was just glad to survive that shit party the previous night and into the train, when the woman sitting next to me started telling the others "Hey, did you hear what happened to Jasup last night? Stale beer lady was very keen on him", and the others laughed: "Oh, you like older ladies Jasup?" "Do you need your ears cleaned?" "Is she your girlfriend now?" etc. for at least a full hour.
What was worse, the woman sitting next to me ramped up the teasing and started tickling me, "do you like older woman's touch loverboy? *tickle* *tickle*" My arm first, then my thighs. The others were laughing hysterically. Eventually they started realizing what was happening, maybe because at this point I was quite angrily pushing the groperwoman's hands away from me, and the laughing stopped. And when there was no support for "jokingly" groping, the groperwoman eventually stopped too after few failed attempts of jokes and I could really finally say that I didn't appreciate the experience.
I'm a big guy, when I get harrassed It's funny.
Definitely not a FTFY edit I made to your post, rather it's how I think THE ENTIRE REST OF DECENCY VALUING HUMANITY should read it.
Ah, this reminds me of an incident on the bus while I was coming home from college classes.
It was evening and I was sitting across an east asian man when this shifty looking lady stepped onto the bus. For a few seconds I thought "better protect my laptop and keep my backpack close"--prejudiced paranoia perhaps? I think she was high on meth or something, because she started flirting with the guy, and then.. groping him, fondling his crotch and trying to cajole him into reciprocating.
It was so uncomfortable and weird and other passengers were laughing uncomfortably. I felt bad for him. I don't think he could speak english well.
And then it took a turn for the even worse because he tried shoving her away, and I guess his rejection angered her because she started to full out getting on top of him to bite and choke him! He was a smaller asian guy and she had meth strength or whatever and everyone on the bus was just shocked and locked into bystander effect, kind of only shouting " hey stop! oh my god!". the bus driver had stopped the bus by then, mybe to call for the police.
The guy's eyes and face were turning red and he looked to me and barely let out a "help me..", enough to break me out of my shock. I swallowed my fear and got up and started yelling at her and noticing she wouldn't stop, I had to calculate if i should start assaulting her (punching her in the face) or something else. I opted to grab her arm and wrap it around one of the vertical bars, something that I thought would be painful enough to have her release her grip on him. It worked and she stood up as I let go and she turned on me and swiped at me. At this point, seeing as it was a taller woman against a smaller, younger asian student, a male passenger got up to assert himself and try to defend me just by standing up.
Seeing she was outnumbered, she finally ambled off the bus and got tackled by waiting officers a couple of seconds after. I was the only one besides the victim and driver to remain on the scene to leave any statement to the officers.
When I think back about this event, I feel ashamed I was part of the crowd uncomfortably watching and laughing as this guy was being sexually assaulted until it escalated into a possibly fatal situation, and only then recognized how serious this was. I'm glad I did eventually act but I feel like I waited too long, and then there was everyone else that didn't treat it seriously until the next possible victim wasn't male?
I think even after I told this story to others, especially other guys, they'd sketpically or mockingly question why the guy just didn't overpower this woman and get out of the situation himself. People can be really unempathetic or myopic.
It was evening and I was sitting across an east asian man when this shifty looking lady stepped onto the bus. For a few seconds I thought "better protect my laptop and keep my backpack close"--prejudiced paranoia perhaps? I think she was high on meth or something, because she started flirting with the guy, and then.. groping him, fondling his crotch and trying to cajole him into reciprocating.
It was so uncomfortable and weird and other passengers were laughing uncomfortably. I felt bad for him. I don't think he could speak english well.
And then it took a turn for the even worse because he tried shoving her away, and I guess his rejection angered her because she started to full out getting on top of him to bite and choke him! He was a smaller asian guy and she had meth strength or whatever and everyone on the bus was just shocked and locked into bystander effect, kind of only shouting " hey stop! oh my god!". the bus driver had stopped the bus by then, mybe to call for the police.
The guy's eyes and face were turning red and he looked to me and barely let out a "help me..", enough to break me out of my shock. I swallowed my fear and got up and started yelling at her and noticing she wouldn't stop, I had to calculate if i should start assaulting her (punching her in the face) or something else. I opted to grab her arm and wrap it around one of the vertical bars, something that I thought would be painful enough to have her release her grip on him. It worked and she stood up as I let go and she turned on me and swiped at me. At this point, seeing as it was a taller woman against a smaller, younger asian student, a male passenger got up to assert himself and try to defend me just by standing up.
Seeing she was outnumbered, she finally ambled off the bus and got tackled by waiting officers a couple of seconds after. I was the only one besides the victim and driver to remain on the scene to leave any statement to the officers.
When I think back about this event, I feel ashamed I was part of the crowd uncomfortably watching and laughing as this guy was being sexually assaulted until it escalated into a possibly fatal situation, and only then recognized how serious this was. I'm glad I did eventually act but I feel like I waited too long, and then there was everyone else that didn't treat it seriously until the next possible victim wasn't male?
I think even after I told this story to others, especially other guys, they'd sketpically or mockingly question why the guy just didn't overpower this woman and get out of the situation himself. People can be really unempathetic or myopic.
OP
OP
I'm assuming the grooming had a sexual component to it? If so then that is absolutely sexual abuse, it's called non-contact sexual abuse. It's the same way I was abused. If an adult was using you for sexual gratification while you were a minor, even if they never physically touched you but instead it was through messages, pictures, video, etc. online, that is also abuse.
I mean non-contact sexual abuse is an entirely new phenomenon since it basically arose during the early to mid 2000's when internet access became common for children. The OP doesn't address it specifically, but it's a massive source of abuse now. I wouldn't be shocked if non-contact sexual abuse of minors eventually overtakes physical abuse as the most common form of child abuse, if it hasn't already.