I live in the past but at the same time you can't really say world economy is in good place. Also Sony manufactures lot of professional equipment such as HDCam SR and whatnot which are used in TV and Film industry.
Last edited:
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
BusinessInsider: Sony Is Making The Same Mistake That Hobbled Microsoft And Almost Killed Xbox
- Thread starter Sillegamer
- Start date
I just sold my PS4. The second ps4 I've owned.
I was not wrong. I was right. I just made a simple post stating the ps now website doesn't show you which games are downloadable and for some reason it ruffled a few feathers.
Because PS3 was 200 more expensive and launched a year later and even more in some places. What do you think would have happened if ps3 was the same price and launched at the same time? It would have steam rolled. So a focused MS won't mean steam rolled if Sony doesnt pull off another's ps3 situation. I doubt that happens, since unlike MS PlayStation is way more important for Sony then Xbox is to MS.
It's that simple.
The 360 and PS3 ended up in a tie and anyone arguing differently is just trying to push a narrative. MS fucked up with RRoD and Kinect and still managed to tie the PS3 and Sony fucked up with FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS and still managed to tie the 360. There's really no other way to look at it.
1) A competitor fucking up doesn't somehow automatically guarantee success. Your product still has to be attractive to potential customers. Microsoft fucking up Xbox One clearly helped Sony this generation, but the fact that PS4 is also a great console with compelling games and exclusives has ensured roaring success in its own merits. We can certainly apply the same to the 360 last generation whether you choose to be in denial about that fact or not.
2) Sony spent far more years building and supporting the US than Microsoft had when Xbox 360 launched. That doesn't tell the whole story as 360 obviously saw far more success in the territory.
3) And we're not sat here talking about how Dreamcast was a huge success because it launched before the PS2. Launching a year early clearly doesn't guarantee you're going to "sell" 10m additional units (and, let's not forget Microsoft aggressively stuffed the channel to hit that number in their first year, it was shipped not sold to customers.)
4) And you don't magically launch a console on time without years of building and planning.
And I should say, this article is ludicrous, and I'm not saying the next Xbox will outsell PS5 or anything of the sort. Microsoft still has a long, long way to go to recover from years of under investment and a tainted reputation in many key markets.
Another thing, they no longer have the millions of Kinect fans that helped them greatly during the 360 era. So for them to be so much more dominant in NA compared to PS5 is not a sure thing.
Now if throw in streaming then I don't know how that will be accounted for.
I think there's a difference between using the PS5 as another platform for Sony's media to land on, and designing the XB1 primarily as a cable box replacement. Quite a large difference.
I don't like Sony's handling of cross platform, but I also understand where they're coming from. They're on top of the market and by a wide margin. They have little reason to open up.
I think Sony and Microsoft will both be fine as long as they keep this one thing in mind - gaming consoles are for games first. Everything else comes second. I can stream on any device out there. I can get my news anywhere. I can get all of my media anywhere. I can't play console quality games anywhere. So design your consoles to play games, not to be a cable box or to play netflix.
I don't like Sony's handling of cross platform, but I also understand where they're coming from. They're on top of the market and by a wide margin. They have little reason to open up.
I think Sony and Microsoft will both be fine as long as they keep this one thing in mind - gaming consoles are for games first. Everything else comes second. I can stream on any device out there. I can get my news anywhere. I can get all of my media anywhere. I can't play console quality games anywhere. So design your consoles to play games, not to be a cable box or to play netflix.
Some of this is just plain wrong.
Xbox One was $100 more than PS4 at launch. The same difference between the 360 20gb model and the PS3 20gb model when PS3 launched. They later solved that by removing the Kinect and launching the S, just as Sony did last generation removing BC and launching the Slim.
The gap between PS4 and XBO ports was/is way bigger than the gap at saw on PS3/360 last gen. XBO versions are always worse and usually significantly lower resolution. And PS3 easily had the best looking exclusives regardless of its technical difficulties, so it wasn't seen as a weaker console. It also had Blu-Ray as a key advantage for larger games like MGS4.
Don't forget the launching a year late or more as well. Had PS4 launched a year earlier in NA it would have gotten really bad.
??
I was just correcting a couple of things in the post I quoted, not talking about sales.
I was referring to the post about had Xbox one had the problems that PS3 had that you replied.
yeah, i absolutely agree on this. build Gaming consoles please!
That was circumstantial. Xbox's weakness in Japan is an ongoing situation.
The PlayStation website makes it very clear that it's almost all games. For some reason you cared enough that you weren't able to find out the tiniest number of games that were not downloadable, for some stupid reason despite not owning a PS4. You argued something that next to nobody gives a shit about just to be difficultly negative in yet another PlayStation topic, tried to argue that Sony needs to market its service better based on no data at all, and you were given updated information but decided to argue onwards about something that doesn't matter in the slightest and isn't even relevant to the thread. If feathers are ruffled, it's because that's what you're aiming for.
Last edited:
So the complete opposite of most forums who want MS to fail? j/k
Fail is a very strong word and I dont see it at all. They are the leader and getting arrogant, that is why some are a little harsh but wanting them to fail? I seriously doubt that. One of the questions is what is going to take place now that they have John Kodera. I do think this article is dramatizing things a bit, Sony has for the most part put gaming as their center aside from the PS3 first few years.
Reminder about platform warring and civility.
Yes the website makes it clear that most PS2 and PS4 games are downloadable. It does not specify which games are or are not downloadable. I think we're in agreement on that part.
And are you saying that if you don't own the console you cannot comment about it? I've owned a PS4. More than once. Even if I hadn't I should be able to comment on it. We're all on this forum to discuss video games. Not sure why you think only certain ppl should be able to discuss a topic. Is it a circle the wagon type of mentality?
And obviously Sony thinks it's important to have downloadable games on ps now. Or they never would have made the change. So if it's important why don't they make this clear to ppl on the website? It's a simple fix and I don't know why you would be against it.
So to be clear, you're blaming Sony for creating a weak, harder to develop for console with a higher price tag than their competitor?
And you're using that criteria to justify the 360's success relative to the competition?
Gee, where else have I seen this exact situation play out elsewhere within the console market? Any ideas?
1) No, but it certainly helps, especially when it's a badly as the PS3, which was far worse than the XB1 fuck up imo, at least MS reacted fairly quickly and changed a lot of the really shit parts.
2) Sony have been in an entire gen more, no shit there. MS had plenty of time to gain ground in other territories, but never really committed to it, as well, it's really fucking hard to build a worldwide brand.
3) The Dreamcast/SEGA as a whole back then was a bigger fuck up than even the PS3, their dumb surprise release strategy with the Saturn was the beginning of the ene and them reacting to quickly try and compete and beat Sony with the PS2 was a massive part of them no longer being in the console business, it's not a good example, as they played right into Sony's hands and Sony absolutely killed them for it, with aggressive pricing that SEGA couldn't really afford to do.
4) Fair enough.
Edit: I don't want to come across as I'm downplaying the 360 mind, it was a nearly perfect gen from MS (RRoD and Kinect success blinding them would be why it wasn't), certainly a bigger success than the PS3 (limited to that gen anyway, PS4 isn't anywhere as success without the PS3 or 360 imo) and it broke what was pretty much becoming a monopoly for PlayStation, with Nintendo giving up head-to-heading them after the Gamecube.
Last edited:
Of course I blame them, that gen could had gone so much better had they just focused on the games. There was no need for Blue ray for example, should have just used the HD DVD. Sony fucking up so much let people look elsewhere. How am I wrong?
The same exact thing happened to xbox one. One messing up doesn't guranteed succes of the other unless the other is a good product. If both are good prodcuts they just transfer over then bases from last gen and build upon it.
I don't agree with all of the points in the article, but Sony has been back to being arrogant and more anti-consumer since the start of this generation. A failed start to the next generation would do them, (read: the consumer), a lot of good.
Sony was not going to adopt HD DVD, their mandate was to get bluray into homes and they used Playstation to do that. It paid off in the end but it cost them a lot, both financially and the huge market lead they had coming off the PS2.
Sony will adapt. It already is. PS Now supports game downloads, and they arguably pioneered console game streaming. PS infrastructure is super lucrative thanks to Sony's services, mainly gaming, and if anything they need to branch out and pick up their own game broadcasting service similar to Microsoft's Mixer.
Also, it looks particularly bad when you factor in that the 360 bombed in Japan, and that Sony was following up the best selling console of all time.
Like, seriously: The 360 failed to obtain basically any foothold in a huge portion of the market, and was a follow up to a console with pretty meddling sales.
Meanwhile, the PS3 had the Japanese market on lock, and was following, and I repeat, the best selling video game console of all time.
Sony should've fucking curbstomped.
Last edited:
Without reading the whole topic my take on this:
Sony has been burning good will for a while, the executive turnover scares me, I want backwards compatibility, I want cross play, I want gifting, I want digital returns...
That being said, it's nowhere near what Microsoft did with the 360-Xbox One generation.
Selling off, closing and basically stopping releasing core games that people talked about in the last years of the 360, while the PS3 was still getting games like The Last of Us, and was riding high on goodwill.
They then had a total misfire on marketing to a market that didn't exist while shitting on their fanbase with "We have a product for them" sorts of PR. The Xbox One was less powerful, more expensive, and had no games people were talking about on it.
Being an owner of both, I feel like the Xbox One has a worse library of exclusives than any other Xbox console. There's also nothing on the horizon that has been announced that will change my mind. There is no Last of Us, no God of War, no Spider-Man, no Uncharted, no Death Stranding, no Gravity Rush, no Dreams, no Tearaway.
tldr: Sony is doing things wrong, but Microsoft is still digging themselves out of a hole they created prior to the Xbox One.
Sony has been burning good will for a while, the executive turnover scares me, I want backwards compatibility, I want cross play, I want gifting, I want digital returns...
That being said, it's nowhere near what Microsoft did with the 360-Xbox One generation.
Selling off, closing and basically stopping releasing core games that people talked about in the last years of the 360, while the PS3 was still getting games like The Last of Us, and was riding high on goodwill.
They then had a total misfire on marketing to a market that didn't exist while shitting on their fanbase with "We have a product for them" sorts of PR. The Xbox One was less powerful, more expensive, and had no games people were talking about on it.
Being an owner of both, I feel like the Xbox One has a worse library of exclusives than any other Xbox console. There's also nothing on the horizon that has been announced that will change my mind. There is no Last of Us, no God of War, no Spider-Man, no Uncharted, no Death Stranding, no Gravity Rush, no Dreams, no Tearaway.
tldr: Sony is doing things wrong, but Microsoft is still digging themselves out of a hole they created prior to the Xbox One.
https://www./threads/tretton-we-removed-bc-to-encourage-people-to-buy-more-ps3-games.200326/
I just tried to refund a purchase with sony support and they ran me in circles with contradicting reasons why they can't.
Microsoft has been making all the right consumer friendly moves to set themselves up for success in the next generation and I hope it does well for them. Clearly Sony doesn't give a fuck if they don't have to, so I hope the success of Microsoft changes that much like it did at the beginning of this gen
Microsoft has been making all the right consumer friendly moves to set themselves up for success in the next generation and I hope it does well for them. Clearly Sony doesn't give a fuck if they don't have to, so I hope the success of Microsoft changes that much like it did at the beginning of this gen
Off topic, but for Anthem. Prior to purchasing it I read something on the Sony site that states refunds are allowed under certain circumstances. Turns out that was the EU help page and not US, which is a whole separate discussion on the US' shitty laws
But the fact of the matter is Sony has been riding on goodwill they built up at the beginning of the gen and giving the finger to their customers for a while now. Microsoft has been trying to fix the mistakes the made at the beginning of the gen and people are catching on
If Sony doesn't get their act together and Microsoft's first party output beefs up, they're going to have a real problem
Sea of thieves is a good success title
....multiplayer titles have a different life of single player games ....
There sure seems to be a ton of negativity aimed at sony and the playstation lately and I really don't get it. We've just come off a phenomenal year for them , they have 3 great pieces of hardware selling right now and launched at least 2 big games last year that preformed amazingly both on a critical and financial level and they've got nearly a half dozen more big games scheduled over the next year and a half (dreams, days gone, last of us part 2, ghosts of tsushima , death stranding). So .... great hardware and great games that are also exclusive ... where have they failed exactly ? It would be a waste of time and resources to announce new games right now because well... they're probably all PS5 titles at this point and being real for a second, the PS5 isn't coming out this year no matter how badly anyone wants it.
If I look across the pasture to Microsoft right now , what have they really got going on ? certainly the Xbox one S is cheaper than the base PS4 but even the S model is a bit weaker so multi-platform titles look and run worse on the competitively priced device. Certainly the Xbox one X is an insanely competent little box that outpreforms the ps4 pro in like for like scenarios by just as much as the math would suggest (up to 50% in some cases) but ... it's also 100$ more than a PS4 pro and still fails to hit natural 2160p in most software. For many then the difference between the 2 isn't that crazy once you're sitting on the couch. MS has been trying really hard to rebuild their brand since 2014 when they pulled out the Kinect , they do have a solid bit of hardware now but the damage done was severe. All of their most interesting software has been cancelled, studios shuttered or titles met with lengthy delays. Over the next couple years the only big new thing they've really announced is that yet more advanced hardware is coming out eventually. This is great yeah but what are we going to play on this new device ? another Halo ? another Gears of War ? another Forza ? Certainly if that's what you like you've got it in spades on the current box but ... chances are pretty good that you already own an xbox or stuck with them instead of flipping to PS4 back in 2013. Worldwide there are roughly 2 PS4 owners for every 1 XB1 owner and most of those Xbox one owners are in north america this time ... that's not a very diverse audience and makes it really difficult to win back Japanese support outside of the biggest games.
Basically , my point is that Sony has yet to make a mistake whereas MS is still picking up the pieces from their previous one. They've got nowhere to go but up for sure but I don't see how they can win back the lost audience or attract new players without offering high quality new software consistently and quickly once their next box launches and no matter how hard they try short of 100% financing - they wont' be getting a ton of Japanese exclusive content. If this gen has proved anything to me it's that Japan still makes the best games and offers the most interesting experiences. Even with the xbox 360 , that console won me over last gen because it had everything on it and 95% of it played and looked better. "everything" in this case meant world wide releases , not just the latest AAAA titles from EA or activision or Ubisoft.
Competition is always a good thing and it's what makes gaming truly thrive so I hope MS can make a better show out of the gate because everyone will benefit but I don't see right now how proclaiming Sony "dead in the water" on the same level as MS was with the XB1 or even sony was back with the PS3 is accurate at all ... we know little of their future plans but at present they have the best selling hardware this gen by a pretty large margin and 95% of the best games (outside of Nintendo) as well as a promising lineup still coming to their current hardware VS MS who HAVE announced new hardware but have little excitement due software wise. The evidence points towards MS dropping the ball again more than it points to "cocky sony" messing up what they having going on. At least until both houses reveal their new child, any articles like this are little more than a fantasy draft.
If I look across the pasture to Microsoft right now , what have they really got going on ? certainly the Xbox one S is cheaper than the base PS4 but even the S model is a bit weaker so multi-platform titles look and run worse on the competitively priced device. Certainly the Xbox one X is an insanely competent little box that outpreforms the ps4 pro in like for like scenarios by just as much as the math would suggest (up to 50% in some cases) but ... it's also 100$ more than a PS4 pro and still fails to hit natural 2160p in most software. For many then the difference between the 2 isn't that crazy once you're sitting on the couch. MS has been trying really hard to rebuild their brand since 2014 when they pulled out the Kinect , they do have a solid bit of hardware now but the damage done was severe. All of their most interesting software has been cancelled, studios shuttered or titles met with lengthy delays. Over the next couple years the only big new thing they've really announced is that yet more advanced hardware is coming out eventually. This is great yeah but what are we going to play on this new device ? another Halo ? another Gears of War ? another Forza ? Certainly if that's what you like you've got it in spades on the current box but ... chances are pretty good that you already own an xbox or stuck with them instead of flipping to PS4 back in 2013. Worldwide there are roughly 2 PS4 owners for every 1 XB1 owner and most of those Xbox one owners are in north america this time ... that's not a very diverse audience and makes it really difficult to win back Japanese support outside of the biggest games.
Basically , my point is that Sony has yet to make a mistake whereas MS is still picking up the pieces from their previous one. They've got nowhere to go but up for sure but I don't see how they can win back the lost audience or attract new players without offering high quality new software consistently and quickly once their next box launches and no matter how hard they try short of 100% financing - they wont' be getting a ton of Japanese exclusive content. If this gen has proved anything to me it's that Japan still makes the best games and offers the most interesting experiences. Even with the xbox 360 , that console won me over last gen because it had everything on it and 95% of it played and looked better. "everything" in this case meant world wide releases , not just the latest AAAA titles from EA or activision or Ubisoft.
Competition is always a good thing and it's what makes gaming truly thrive so I hope MS can make a better show out of the gate because everyone will benefit but I don't see right now how proclaiming Sony "dead in the water" on the same level as MS was with the XB1 or even sony was back with the PS3 is accurate at all ... we know little of their future plans but at present they have the best selling hardware this gen by a pretty large margin and 95% of the best games (outside of Nintendo) as well as a promising lineup still coming to their current hardware VS MS who HAVE announced new hardware but have little excitement due software wise. The evidence points towards MS dropping the ball again more than it points to "cocky sony" messing up what they having going on. At least until both houses reveal their new child, any articles like this are little more than a fantasy draft.
Sony PR was probably written by MS 2013 execs back then for how awful it was.
But no, the two iterations of removing ps2 chipset saved them a significant cost per unit.
Huh, where are you seeing this?
Playstation is killing it right now.
I think that for home console Japan market will be in the near future a "irrelevant" country ...It Is in decline from too many years and the trajectory isn't changing at all
That is a problem, in EU we dont have that because the law says they have to give a refund.
It'll always be relevant, just less so. It's still a multi-million console selling market after many years of decline, which is far bigger than most countries. But the biggest reason why it'll always be relevant is the studios. Sony and Nintendo get a boat load of free exclusives simply by having a strong presence there.
It's definitely a factor. A company HQ'd (PlayStation aren't anymore but have massive ties) in Japan is naturally going to be more willing to strongly establish themselves there and have a better understanding of the market.
Jack says it didn't; that's what I'm going with.
Besides, did locking down access to the included software emulator from the 80 GB PS3 after the initial chip removal also save money? That action backs up Jack's statement in spades.
I don't think anyone is saying this.
A large majority of your comments related to PlayStation lean on the negative side. I find your presence in these threads rather strange because you don't own a PS4, you haven't shared any interest in buying one soon, you are not subscribed to PSNow and you seemingly don't care much for PlayStation exclusives.
So what is it, do you just like unnecessary confrontation?
I don't think anyone is against additional information on their website, but is it required? I'd argue that we can do without it since it's available where it actually matters - on the PS4.
Last edited:
Tbh, people (as in the casual audience) would start to care about the lack of BC when their progress on Fortnite doesn't carry over to their new console, or/and if they're forced to buy the game they'd been playing for so long another time.
Backwards comp is absolutely mandatory for next-gen with the rise of GaaS. I'm confident Sony will implement it on PS5 though.
Backwards compatibility is the only reason I'd even be remotely interested in a PS5, especially if it supported PS1 and PS2, though I HIGHLY doubt it'd do that. Other than that, I'm fine with just sticking with PC and Switch.