What's next? You gonna post pictures of dead children from drone strikes under Obama? Gross.
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Bush is still worse than Trump
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What's next? You gonna post pictures of dead children from drone strikes under Obama? Gross.
I believe Bush invaded Iraq because he was an ideological neoconservative who had a grudge against Saddam well before 9/11 and wanted revenge, surrounded and largely cajoled by people who had similar ideological hangups in his administration.
This is why the post invasion reconstruction was so laissez-faire they didn't REALLY care what happened.
He didn't and doesn't give a shit about anything that happens and correctly guessed he would never be held accountable by any sort of legal or political mechanism, and that a good deal of public opinion (the portion he cared about) would rehabilitate his image right down to people in 2020 still believing he entered the invasion with well intentioned nation building.
Why are posters defending and whitewashing war crimes, including torture, over a long series of posts? Trump has fucking broken people's brains. The images of torture are shocking but this was George W. Bush's presidency. Attempting to minimize this because Trump says the quiet part loud, I mean fuck, I can't even understand the thought process of the posters who are looking back on the Bush years fondly.
If that person has explicitly told you the images upset them... maybe don't continue to post them in direct response?
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Those pictures should be Bush's legacy and everyone should be constantly reminded of it because it hasn't seem to sunk in.
I should, shouldn't I. The United States is a sick and diseased nation and always has been, I'll never forget my meeting of an elderly Iraqi refugee here in Australia, he was visibly crying when talking about his homeland.
Dude, I don't think there is any need to post these pictures, just post documents if you want to cite something.
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Like I said. Facts.
Except post-invasion construction was not laissez-faire, it was an intensive and COSTLY process that failed because it failed to account for the actual on-the-ground sectarian division within the region largely due to assumptions made following the first Gulf War and the uprising against Saddam that followed. In attempting to build a U.S. democratic partner in the Middle East to help fight the War on Terror, the U.S. only succeeded in creating another proxy state for Iran to control.
I was told after I posted that one actually, I deliberately haven't posted an image after they told me even though I should.
Disaster Capitalism in Action: iraq | Naomi Klein
I don't know why you think this is compelling evidence, I feel like you should probably put less stock in the shiny words people in power curate and more on the reality of how power is managed and events unfold.
Yes, Bush's administration wrought havoc because he had some competent people on his team. Enough to matter, to orchestrate immense harm. And while he clearly isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, he's at least coherent most of the time and understood most of what was going on. Unlike Trump, who is often in fits of fanciful wonderment about well known things like a child. What was the most recent one? Shoot UV rays through someones chest or some dumb shit like that.
Trump, on the other hand, is just clearly extremely stupid, inept. He hires the wrong people, people who have no idea what they're doing (like Doctor Ben Carson for housing development? That dipshit from Texas for energy? Like what?), then quickly fires them and hires someone even more unqualified. He has left much of the government unstaffed, as it seems he just can't be bothered to do any real work. Not even delegate it to others.
So yea, the Trump admin's legacy will probably be that it spent its time spinning its wheels doing jack except for signing a tax giveaway to billionaires and corporations at the expense of the middle class and even the poor. Meanwhile, Bush's admin literally wrecked part of the world and insured massive terrorist organizations would grow for decades to come.
Trump, on the other hand, is just clearly extremely stupid, inept. He hires the wrong people, people who have no idea what they're doing (like Doctor Ben Carson for housing development? That dipshit from Texas for energy? Like what?), then quickly fires them and hires someone even more unqualified. He has left much of the government unstaffed, as it seems he just can't be bothered to do any real work. Not even delegate it to others.
So yea, the Trump admin's legacy will probably be that it spent its time spinning its wheels doing jack except for signing a tax giveaway to billionaires and corporations at the expense of the middle class and even the poor. Meanwhile, Bush's admin literally wrecked part of the world and insured massive terrorist organizations would grow for decades to come.
User Banned (Permanent): Justifying the posting extremely graphic and inappropriate images over a series of posts
No, fuck them. This is what America is built on.
I don't see why we can't look at the actual legacy of presidents, even civil ones, when they did monstrous shit? The dead children from Obama's drone strikes are his legacy. Would you disagree with that?
No, you should not. Ignoring the distress you are causing someone to prove a point in an argument on a forum is not okay.
Jfc... what is wrong with some of you....
I said fucking stop quoting me. I've reported you. Goddamn you, you fuck. Fuck you. I don't care if I get banned. You are using those pictures to win and argument. You don't care about anyone in those photos. At all or anyone on this forum who are actually suffering.
You are a piece of fucking shit.
Cheney had Iraq in sights two years ago
www.telegraph.co.uk
Seems like oil was relevant to the invasion of Iraq.
These arguments are circular and never end up with any consensus because people value events over others. Some will completely cancel out Bush's policies in Africa that probably saved millions while the war crimes in Iraq killed a million at least.
Trumps response to Covid will easily exceed 100k lives. Scale it however you want but I won't rank them. They're both horrible
Trumps response to Covid will easily exceed 100k lives. Scale it however you want but I won't rank them. They're both horrible
Idk it seems like a lot of people have either forgotten about or warned up to the bush administration. Maybe these will serve as cold reminders.
You can post all the unsealed documents and first-hand accounts, but they won't jolt you like an image will.
They're both horrible, scummy, piece of shit monsters and so are the people in congress who knew/know what they're doing and let them. Fuck em. Fuck McCain and everyone who rehabbed his reputation upon his death. Fuck McConnell for basically everything. Fuck Nancy Pelosi for admitting she knew Iraq was bullshit from the jump and still protected Bush from her own party members who wanted to impeach him. The list is almost endless. Garbage throughout American government.
Edit: Also posting torture pictures in this thread is fucked. And people getting self-righteous about it are being ridiculous. You're so fucking proud of yourselves for being gross. No one should have to risk seeing that shit. I'm out of this thread.
Edit: Also posting torture pictures in this thread is fucked. And people getting self-righteous about it are being ridiculous. You're so fucking proud of yourselves for being gross. No one should have to risk seeing that shit. I'm out of this thread.
I know so many refugees from the middle east, I've heard all their stories, I've seen the damage the war did to their families, I care about the people suffering in those photos more than you ever will. It reflects worse on you to think that I'm using this as a prop to win an argument.
On an individual basis? Of course. It does remain true that America, as an aggregate, hasn't looked at what it's done honestly and with their eyes open. The ability to treat its abuses as anodyne statistics on a page is part of the problem.
We'll never have an accurate count of how many people died of COVID due to Trump's actions. From shutting down the Pandemic Response Team to hoarding ventilators to spending months downplaying it as "just the flu" to telling people to drink bleach.
This feels like a pretty big strawman, no one is looking back on the Bush era fondly. The main argument I'm seeing is that Trump would do similar things to what Bush did in a post 9/11 world
People need to see reality dude.
What about the distress caused to arabs on ERA who are watching people blatantly whitewash Bushes history? Do they not matter?
I'm on the Bush is worse camp, but I don't think posting these pictures was needed. There are tons of reports documenting the horrors of the Iraq War and citing them is more than adequate.
If a person explicitly tells you what you are doing is causing them distress, and you continue to respond directly to them with more just to prove your point, that is a shit thing to do.
I shouldn't have to explain this...
The Civil liberties alone we lost forever under Bush makes his tangible impact worst than Trump's. Nevermind the war crimes, nevermind he broke the economy.
Trump is dangerous because of his incompetence and the way he normalizes extremist views, but he didn't create them.
Trump is dangerous because of his incompetence and the way he normalizes extremist views, but he didn't create them.
Disaster Capitalism in Action: iraq | Naomi Klein
tsd.naomiklein.org
I don't know why you think this is compelling evidence, I feel like you should probably put less stock in the shiny words people in power curate and more on the reality of how power is managed and events unfold.
I don't see how any of the links provided supports the rationale others have advanced regarding the invasion of Iraq and U.S. seizure of Iraqi oil. Please cite to specific sources.
People aren't fucking listening, they're straight up still defending Bush and his mythical intentions, you need to look at what he actually fucking did with your own eyes
They showed these images on the evening news, it can't be that fucking bad for people, there are much, much worse photos
And hey, if you think these images are super disturbing, imagine how the people in the photos felt! And how they feel about George Bush and the invasion of iraq
Im not necessarily agreeing that they should be posted. I'm kind of in the middle here because on one end it could be seen as insensitive. But on the other, the cold reality can get lost in reports that are made up of only words.
It's like, you can read about the Holocaust all you want, but it won't truly drive just how unspeakable of an atrocity it was as the images.
This is what I'm saying to you, there was no failure to account, it was an irrelevant calculation to the Bush administration. They did not care what happened.
Like Katrina, like the housing market crash, like Afghanistan, they simply didn't give a shit about the fallout.
You know about other people's suffering, better than anyone, and yet dismiss it so easily.
I think Trump's response would have been worse. Nuclear weapons worse.
As if Australia is not a nation built on blood and conquest. As if Australia did not participate in the Iraqi boondoggle.
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We are not doing this. They're both evil fucks - the comparison is meaningless. We are still removing some of the graphic images in the thread, and we will be reviewing the thread to see if further bans are needed.
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