Looks good, last Korean film I saw was The Wailing which was intense. I'll check and see if I can rent it anywhere.
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"Burning" might be the finest Korean movie released this year
- Thread starter Dreamboum
- Start date
Yeah, I keep also thinking of the other perspective and how many things point and is suggestive toward him.
I would love to see more analysis' on YouTube but I only see two.
So while a lot suggest Ben did kill her, I just can't make any sense of why he would willingly meet with Jong-su out in nowhere, and pretend to be shocked that Hae-mi isn't with him. I like to think that Ben was legit surprised, but then there's all of the things suggesting he's the killer we've been fed throughout the movie. I picked up on the "burning down greenhouses and it's one close to you," and while being affected by drugs could have not been precise information, it could just as well have been the straight truth that came out.
I'm just not convinced. While the watch was in Ben's drawer, another girl had it and it seems to be a common item anyone could have. Then the cat reacts to "Boil," yet it was never seen at her apartment. She could have named her fantasy cat after his cat, although he said he had just gotten it. The cat food was also eaten overnight at her apartment, unless it was just something Jong-su was fantasizing. I like how we got no real proof of anything.
I'm just not convinced. While the watch was in Ben's drawer, another girl had it and it seems to be a common item anyone could have. Then the cat reacts to "Boil," yet it was never seen at her apartment. She could have named her fantasy cat after his cat, although he said he had just gotten it. The cat food was also eaten overnight at her apartment, unless it was just something Jong-su was fantasizing. I like how we got no real proof of anything.
I would love to see more analysis' on YouTube but I only see two.
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Yeah, if Ben did kill those women, I don't see it as an assisted suicide situation either. Those women were full of life. They might've been alone, on the margins of society, had complex problems, but nothing indicated to me that they were suicidal. Haemi had that "great hunger" for life and meaning. And she literally moved through her world and the screen like someone who was immersed in exploring and experiencing life. The woman after Haemi also seemed excited to be dating Ben. Bought a bunch of groceries eager to help Ben's house party. Nothing in her costume design or her presentation pointed to a possible wish for self-annihilation.
I don't know. I didn't see her as someone immersed in exploring and experiencing life. I saw someone very depressed and trying to keep things together and looking for a reason to continue living. The whole point about not wanting to die vs not wanting to have existed in the first place (also the miming discussion) sounded exactly like depression to me.
I can see that perspective. But to me, it felt more like a search for meaning and movement, experience, distraction - rather than a search for a reason to keep living. Even if she's depressed - which I'm not sure she is - to me that doesn't mean she's suicidal. She's certainly brimming with feelings about her life's realities and life's "stories." There'd have to be more for me to view her as suicidal.
And similar to what Dreamboum mentioned, I can't see Ben as an agent of mercy providing relief to these women. I don't see any evidence of that in the movie. After all, he's just there to "play."
And similar to what Dreamboum mentioned, I can't see Ben as an agent of mercy providing relief to these women. I don't see any evidence of that in the movie. After all, he's just there to "play."
This felt like the subversion of the Korean revenge drama that started from I Saw the Devil. I loved this film.
This is tangentially related, but does anyone know if Lee Chang-dong's Green Fish is available to stream/watch anywhere in the US? Wanted to check out his films before seeing this, but that seems like the only one not available
I started skimming the OP because I was convinced pretty quickly and wanted to know the least amount possible before going into the movie
I'm definitely gonna check this out.
I'm definitely gonna check this out.
Yeah he's great, and does a lot with very little. Part of that obviously is the material leading people to read in on his expressions and delivery extra carefully, but if anything that just means he has an even harder job to play everything as reserved as possible. He's got to be magnetic without being magnetic, basically.
Just watched it today. I have seen all of Lee Chang-dong's movies, so I'm familiar with the topics he usually tackles. And toxic masculinity is a recurring theme (the protagonist in Peppermind Candy is an incredibly sexist asshole, the guy in Oasis immediately tries to rape the girl with cerebral palsy).
But one scene in Burning still threw me off.
But one scene in Burning still threw me off.
Jong-su, so far a shy, timid guy, says he's fallen in love with Hae-mi and immediately afterwards calls her a whore for showing her breasts. I was taken aback. What the fuck? I don't mind characters with flaws, but I felt like we were still supposed to sympathize with him after that point. And I just couldn't.
You think he's just shy and timid?
He housesits for her and ends up pathologically jacking off all over her room. He has major issues. He's obviously the more sympathetic character because he's not a (possible) serial killer, but if you don't believe that Steven Yeun killed her, that makes Jong-su an unjustified murderer.
True, but even that doesn't make him unlikeable. He seems inexperienced, as if he's just discovering his sexuality. He's a bit of an enigma, so we don't know all that much about any potential issues (though they are certainly hinted at). So that's why to me the "you're a whore" scene came as a bit of a surprise. Incidentally, it's also the last time he sees her if I remember correctly.
Nope, it's not even listed as a rental on Prime Video yet. The Blu-ray will be released in March.
It was off-putting for me too, but I think it's a part of the thematic thread that starts with the hints about the father's anger management issues and ends with the protagonist committing (arguably justified) murder. This is a guy who has deep jealousy and anger floating just below the surface, and that was a bit of it coming out. And it also gives an initially plausible explanation as to why Haemi would stop talking to him.
This was probably my favorite movie of 2018. I remember thinking the second part was a bit too long at times but I just couldn't stop thinking about it for a week or two.
I personally don't think Ben killed Haemi. All the elements of proof we get seem more like coincidences than anything else, nothing is really conclusive which I really like. I don't think the movie would work as well if we had more concrete evidence of what was really going on.
This is one the best films I've seen in a decade. It reminded me of an early 00's film in the best way. Agree it could've been a tad shorter, especially during the third quarter.
It leaves the viewer with plenty to think about.
It leaves the viewer with plenty to think about.
After the slowburn I needed that cathartic explosion of violence, but there is enough ambiguity to make me doubt justice was served. I read a compelling take that Ben was helping women disappear and re-invent themselves.
But there are so many details that are strange, her plastic surgery and fabricated childhood stories for example. Jongsu himself is a closed book for most of the movie. It definitely warrants a rewatch.
But there are so many details that are strange, her plastic surgery and fabricated childhood stories for example. Jongsu himself is a closed book for most of the movie. It definitely warrants a rewatch.
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Wathced this last week, and pretty much loved it. Reposting from the movie thread:
When the credits for Burning rolled after its more than 2 hour runtime, I was left with just one overwhelming thought: "That's it?". A mystery that barely qualifies as such, and an abrupt ending that barely offers any closure.
But it's a movie that really grew on me after time for reflection. Because there is a lot to love hidden under the surface. There's the exploration of the rural/urban divide, class struggle, toxic masculinity, and most importantly, a look at the role and life of women in a modern Korean society. And probably a ton more that I didn't catch.
In a way, it's a movie that works best for me if looked from the lens of Hae-mi as the protagonist. She's the one who actually receives the most growth and character development throughout the movie, she's the only one of the three leads who is actually sympathetic, she's even on the cover, and yet she's never allowed to actually act as the protagonist. Even more, the movie frames her more as a prop, as nothing more than an object for the two male leads to fight over.
That's not to say that Jong-su, the actual protagonist, isn't interesting himself. He's initially painted as sympathetic, and we're instantly led into feeling bad for him when he has his girlfriend "stolen" from him (again, see the above paragraph). And since everything in the movie is painted with his subjective view, it's not hard to feel that way for the duration of the film, even when nothing he actually does is all that nice. His love for Hae-mi is supposed to be pure (as opposed to Ben's), and yet it really isn't. He never actually spends time with her if it isn't at Ben's initiative, doesn't even seem to remember anything about her, and when he does talk to her, he calls her a slut. And yet despite of this, it's impossible to completely hate him, because he has understandable reasons for all of this.
And of course, it's hard to talk about the movie without bringing up the acting. All three of the leads are great, but Steven Yeun as Ben steals the show, being both incredibly charismatic while at the same time somehow also showing almost no emotion whatsoever. It's also a visually brilliant movie, and despite it's length and deliberately slow pace never actually feels boring.
One thing that was kind of unfortunate was the language barrier, and the translation didn't help much there. From reading around, the "greenhouse" thing is the most obvious one, since in Korean it would be more like "plastic house", with a pretty obvious connotation that is lost with the English word.
But it's a movie that really grew on me after time for reflection. Because there is a lot to love hidden under the surface. There's the exploration of the rural/urban divide, class struggle, toxic masculinity, and most importantly, a look at the role and life of women in a modern Korean society. And probably a ton more that I didn't catch.
In a way, it's a movie that works best for me if looked from the lens of Hae-mi as the protagonist. She's the one who actually receives the most growth and character development throughout the movie, she's the only one of the three leads who is actually sympathetic, she's even on the cover, and yet she's never allowed to actually act as the protagonist. Even more, the movie frames her more as a prop, as nothing more than an object for the two male leads to fight over.
That's not to say that Jong-su, the actual protagonist, isn't interesting himself. He's initially painted as sympathetic, and we're instantly led into feeling bad for him when he has his girlfriend "stolen" from him (again, see the above paragraph). And since everything in the movie is painted with his subjective view, it's not hard to feel that way for the duration of the film, even when nothing he actually does is all that nice. His love for Hae-mi is supposed to be pure (as opposed to Ben's), and yet it really isn't. He never actually spends time with her if it isn't at Ben's initiative, doesn't even seem to remember anything about her, and when he does talk to her, he calls her a slut. And yet despite of this, it's impossible to completely hate him, because he has understandable reasons for all of this.
And of course, it's hard to talk about the movie without bringing up the acting. All three of the leads are great, but Steven Yeun as Ben steals the show, being both incredibly charismatic while at the same time somehow also showing almost no emotion whatsoever. It's also a visually brilliant movie, and despite it's length and deliberately slow pace never actually feels boring.
One thing that was kind of unfortunate was the language barrier, and the translation didn't help much there. From reading around, the "greenhouse" thing is the most obvious one, since in Korean it would be more like "plastic house", with a pretty obvious connotation that is lost with the English word.
OP
OP
Wow I saw this a couple nights ago. Shit was crazy. Can't stop thinking about it.
I don't think she did either.
I don't think she did either.
My theory is that Ben was a guy who makes a living by "helping" troubled women (those in debt, etc) create new identities. He "coaches" them on how to convincingly tell stories about overseas trips, hooks them up with plastic surgeons, etc. Basically Hae-mi was actually getting "coached" by Ben while supposedly in "Africa".
My question is does Ben actually kill the women and keep their personal items as trophies, or did Hae-mi leave, and Ben is simply covering for her and his illegal business (and also fucking with Jong-su since Ben's somewhat of a sociopath)?
Either way, to me Ben in one way or another makes women disappear.
My question is does Ben actually kill the women and keep their personal items as trophies, or did Hae-mi leave, and Ben is simply covering for her and his illegal business (and also fucking with Jong-su since Ben's somewhat of a sociopath)?
Either way, to me Ben in one way or another makes women disappear.
Thinking back on the movie, have we really seen anything outright from Ben where he acts sociopathic? I know he gives that vibe but I can't really recall any direct actions that indicate so.
The only statement is that desire to burn down abandoned buildings.
The only statement is that desire to burn down abandoned buildings.
Just saw this on Netflix once it was there. Didn't manage to see the whole thing but I enjoyed what I saw.
Sweet also on Canadian Netflix. Been a while since I've discovered a new Korean film.
Yess! Going to check this out later today. Just saw the trailer today actually due to the thread bump lol
Yes.
There's that scene where he says he finds people crying interesting because he can't remember ever crying himself, and that he doesn't know if he feels sadness.
He also says that he "plays" for a living. To me that implies that he likes "playing" with people, with greenhouses being a metaphor for women. He "burns down" the women no one cares about, and there are a lot of them in rural parts.
The thing is, I'm not sure if he was just "playing" with Jong su by saying that lol. If Ben actually does help women "disappear", not by killing them but by helping them run away, and he realizes Jong-su is in love with Hae-mi, he might've been thinking "well she's about to leave, so I'm about to fuck with this dude by making it seem like I killed her lol". Like Ben's been playing with people all his life, and in the end it comes back to bite him. One scene that makes me think that is at the end, right before he gets stabbed, he seems genuinely surprised that Hae-mi isn't there (since Jong-su said he was with her).
Or he could just be a killer lol.
He also says that he "plays" for a living. To me that implies that he likes "playing" with people, with greenhouses being a metaphor for women. He "burns down" the women no one cares about, and there are a lot of them in rural parts.
The thing is, I'm not sure if he was just "playing" with Jong su by saying that lol. If Ben actually does help women "disappear", not by killing them but by helping them run away, and he realizes Jong-su is in love with Hae-mi, he might've been thinking "well she's about to leave, so I'm about to fuck with this dude by making it seem like I killed her lol". Like Ben's been playing with people all his life, and in the end it comes back to bite him. One scene that makes me think that is at the end, right before he gets stabbed, he seems genuinely surprised that Hae-mi isn't there (since Jong-su said he was with her).
Or he could just be a killer lol.
Idk....
Maybe she saw Jongsu as one of the last pieces connecting her to her "old self". When they visit Jongsu at his house, she's reminded of her home growing up, and her taking her top off and dancing is almost like she's shedding the last bit of who she was.
Plus she needed someone to look after her cat while she was out doing whatever with Ben haha.
Plus she needed someone to look after her cat while she was out doing whatever with Ben haha.
I too caught this on Netflix recently. Feel like I should rewatch it soon.
I have no evidence to support this but it felt like Ben and his yuppie friends were in it together? they just reminded me of a cabal of vampires or something, sucking the blood of the youthful women Ben brings home. Again, just the vibe I got.
why are there so many greenhouses in rural Korea? why are so many abandoned? i feel like i'm missing a little context here.
why are there so many greenhouses in rural Korea? why are so many abandoned? i feel like i'm missing a little context here.
Well what about when she did come back? She didn't have to keep calling him. And what about Ben? Ben asked her to call Jongsu. If he's in the business of making people disappear he looks unprofessional calling up her old friend.
There could be many reasons on the top of my head:
1. Having a green house raises the amount of compensation a land owner receives if the government decides to buy the land.
2. for seasonal farming in cold weather
3. must be farming on designated farming land or a land owner could receive fines.
4. housing for poor farmers leasing farm land
1. Having a green house raises the amount of compensation a land owner receives if the government decides to buy the land.
2. for seasonal farming in cold weather
3. must be farming on designated farming land or a land owner could receive fines.
4. housing for poor farmers leasing farm land
Again this is all just a theory, but it might be another "test". During those party scenes where Ben is with Haemi, and later that other woman, he's sort of watching them tell these stories of trips to foreign countries as if he's judging how well they do. Like a coach or some shit. And the women telling the stories tell them in a very "canned" way, as if rehearsed. Even the whole "African dance" seemed like made up bullshit. So Ben is using Jungsu as a "test subject" for Haemi, but he finds him so pathetic he continues to fuck with him.
It could also be true that Ben coaches them, but also kills some of them as well lol.
This movie is basically Haemi's "falling in the well" story for me. Don't know what to believe haha.
It could also be true that Ben coaches them, but also kills some of them as well lol.
This movie is basically Haemi's "falling in the well" story for me. Don't know what to believe haha.
Thank you for the explanation. I've always thought that Ben and his friends were simply playing with Haemi and Jungsu to amuse themselves. I might enjoy a prelude to Burning movie where Ben professionally makes people disappear but sometimes make people literally disappear for amusement.
Agreed on the length. I liked the film overall and the themes it explores, but maybe the film was just hyped up too much for me before I saw it, but I didn't leave the experience blown away. I also didn't find it to be as much of a thriller as I kept expecting until fairly deep into the film.
Maybe I'll rewatch it someday though.
Watched it last night, and holy shit what an amazing movie this is.
I love how nothing is clear and certain, and yet the actions of everyone seem believable, and really like it's the only thing that could happen.
I love how nothing is clear and certain, and yet the actions of everyone seem believable, and really like it's the only thing that could happen.
I especially liked how little we know about any of the characters, and yet the mind can't help but immediately have expectations for each of them (a testament to the quality of actors) and how subtly but consistently those expectations are subverted and twisted (similarly, a testament to the quality of directing and screenplay) that by the end we can't know for certain not just who's "the real monster" but can't even be sure about the identity of one character we though we knew most about. Is the woman presenting herself as Hae-mi really Jong-su's childhood friend Hae-mi? We can't be sure of even that. You'd think that her saying that she had a plastic surgery in the first scene we see her would clue you in to this - but Nope! The barrage of news from few years ago about young women in SK being casually expected to undergo various cosmetic surgeries to make their eyes bigger and whatnot, made it so that the only reaction I had to that scene was that of silent, defeated understanding of how believable that situation actually was, and Jong-su not even blinking at it just cemented that in my mind.
I also loved how that lake scene perfectly encapsulates the movie. It's potent, you know it's important to Ben
to be there, but you simply can't know why - and really, why should you expect to know such a thing about someone in the first place?
Oh, and "She disappeared like smoke."
Phew, what a freaking movie...
I also loved how that lake scene perfectly encapsulates the movie. It's potent, you know it's important to Ben
to be there, but you simply can't know why - and really, why should you expect to know such a thing about someone in the first place?
Oh, and "She disappeared like smoke."
Phew, what a freaking movie...
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Sorry for the super necro-bump, I just watched the movie. I feel like I'm going crazy because I thought Ben was obviously:
Trafficking women. The theory of him killing the women, or assisting them suicide doesn't answer the BIGGEST question the movie puts in our face. Where does Ben get his ridiculous amount of money at such a young age? Even Jong-Su is perplexed by it. It seems obvious to me that Ben assists in scouting women on the fringe of society to help disappear into human trafficking. He collects his blood money, and moves to the next mark.
It also explains why Ben describes the party as a "gathering". It's literally all the scouts gathering their prospects to abduct. It also has REALLY eerie parallels to Korea's Burning Sun human trafficking scandal that broke I believe, right after the movie came out? (Or was it before?) There's so much blood money in human trafficking that would put men in high society next to socialites/idols with lots of cash on hand. It also explains Ben's demeanor. He's constantly caught yawning by Jong-Su. This is the only time I believe we see how Ben really feels. He's completely detached. This is just a "job" to him, and he absolves himself of all responsibility for what happens to the women after he marks/scouts them. "Not my problem" is how he operates. It's just a game to him.
But Kudos to the folk that pointed out that Hae-mi probably never went to Africa, because she's known to tell big lies. It makes Ben "bumping" into her way more believable.
Also, I love the touch that we see the murder weapon in Jong-Su's dad's safe in the beginning of the movie. Really illustrating that he's more like his father than he'd probably like to admit. Great movie overall.
It also explains why Ben describes the party as a "gathering". It's literally all the scouts gathering their prospects to abduct. It also has REALLY eerie parallels to Korea's Burning Sun human trafficking scandal that broke I believe, right after the movie came out? (Or was it before?) There's so much blood money in human trafficking that would put men in high society next to socialites/idols with lots of cash on hand. It also explains Ben's demeanor. He's constantly caught yawning by Jong-Su. This is the only time I believe we see how Ben really feels. He's completely detached. This is just a "job" to him, and he absolves himself of all responsibility for what happens to the women after he marks/scouts them. "Not my problem" is how he operates. It's just a game to him.
But Kudos to the folk that pointed out that Hae-mi probably never went to Africa, because she's known to tell big lies. It makes Ben "bumping" into her way more believable.
Also, I love the touch that we see the murder weapon in Jong-Su's dad's safe in the beginning of the movie. Really illustrating that he's more like his father than he'd probably like to admit. Great movie overall.
I mean yea, I think they're definitely in on it.
Another bump:
The sunset dance scene is up there as an all time favorite for me. It contrasts against an earlier scene that heightens the later one to such a degree I was left speechless. The sense of desire, intrinsic want, was so strong it left me dazed.
And yet there's a lot of scenes in this film that have this quiet sense of depth. It's truly astounding.
This is the type of film that really makes you realize how much you consumes is pretty passive. In that what you watch is mainly made up of struck beats. Where in this you could drown in these three characters.
The sunset dance scene is up there as an all time favorite for me. It contrasts against an earlier scene that heightens the later one to such a degree I was left speechless. The sense of desire, intrinsic want, was so strong it left me dazed.
And yet there's a lot of scenes in this film that have this quiet sense of depth. It's truly astounding.
This is the type of film that really makes you realize how much you consumes is pretty passive. In that what you watch is mainly made up of struck beats. Where in this you could drown in these three characters.
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