I wouldn't say fuck Sony, but I'd say fuck Jim Ryan, enough is enough, don't like where Sony is headed as a videogame company since he took over. Such a pity that Shawn wanted to leave so early after such a terrific job those 6 years :(
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Bungie Senior Staff On Sony Reproductive Rights Saga: "There will never be a muzzle big enough to stop us from standing up for what's right"
- Thread starter digitalrelic
- Start date
No one here knows for sure (besides a lurking Jim Ryan) but it's possible that he was communicating that BS via email because he was told to. It's shitty either way and why he's deservingly getting all the negative publicity. But Sony probably won't get rid of him if he was relaying the company message. Even tho the weird cat birthday stuff no doubt was something his dumb ass came up with
Who do you think is holding Jim's leash? It's corporate Sony. He has autonomy to be an asshole sure, but this likely comes from over his head. Otherwise Sony themselves would've said something by now like some other companies have.
Don't worry, that muzzle will arrive when the sale goes through.
Good on Bungie, but they also still have the freedom right now to say this. Sony will absolutely clamp down on this shit - optics clearly aren't their concern.
Good on Bungie, but they also still have the freedom right now to say this. Sony will absolutely clamp down on this shit - optics clearly aren't their concern.
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Because it's silly to believe that a multi-billion dollar corporation employing thousands and thousands of employees is only being affected by one lone wolf that's going against everyone else's wishes.
That's pretty much certainly not what's happening. Jim's actions and words aren't performed in a vacuum. And there's nothing that says it was just Jim Ryan that put a muzzle on all of Sony's studios. And Sony are the ones who've stayed silent on this, not just Jim Ryan. Jim Ryan sucks and should be fired but the issue is with Sony at large.
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This is kind of confusing in that they're still in the process of being acquired by Sony. Yet Liana is clearly suggesting leaving a Sony studio if you don't feel supported to come to Bungie (whom is presumably just going to be a Sony studio in 6 months anyway).
It is a bit confusing. But I guess this is all related to the quoted tweet about how 'there is no muzzle big enough to stop us from standing up for what's right'.
They clearly believe that, even after acquisition, they have the power to support their devs and never stop speaking their minds. Whether that's true or not... They clearly want to believe that it is.
To be fair. It's not like Bungie has zero power over Sony. Sure Sony is ruling with an iron fist, but employees have actual power over their employers, if they're willing to use it. If Bungie as a studio is willing to give management a middle finger, management really can't do shit about it. Sony has to either escalate and start axing key members of the studio, or Sony has to give up and let them do what they want.
If they escalate, thats the same as them burning their 3.6 Billion Dollar investment on fire. And if they only target the upper management of Bungie, the Employees can just escalate again and ignore upper management to make a statement amung themselves as "The Employees of Bungie".
It all goes down to how far employees are willing to go to stand their ground.
Why does everyone keep calling it the "cat email" when the most telling thing he said was about how dogs "know their place" in an email about suppressing opinions on women's bodily autonomy?
Why not capitalize on the attention for hiring in a tight labor market?
In 6 months (or whenever the SC actually makes the decision), Sony will put out a middle of the road statement aligned with the rest of Hollywood and probably let their studios publicly issue statements of their own. And Sony will probably not be as reticent to weigh in on any other social issues in the future, so Bungie probably won't be muzzled.
Did you quote the wrong person? I didn't refer to it as "the cat email" nor am I speaking on behalf of "everyone". The entire email communication was abhorrent, I think anyone on the right side of history will agree with that. Him talking about dogs and cats are an equally stupid way for someone to distract from this issue. I only brought up the cats (and likely "everyone" refs the cat email) because the Bloomberg article ends with a quote from a Sony employee "never been this mad over a cat birthday".
apart from a few game designs decisions being meh, they never stopped being based.
one of the most prestige studios around, ever.
It's odd but it does seem Bungie has some sort of clause in their purchase that guarantees some level of independence. They maintain their own board of directors, and nobody from Sony/SIE/Playstation are on that board.
My guess is that is time limited, but there is a reason Bungie is acting this way so boldly.
My guess is that is time limited, but there is a reason Bungie is acting this way so boldly.
She's not clearly suggesting you leave a Sony studio to join Bungie. Just join Bungie.
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She's literally quote tweeting Bungie CEO Pete Parsons agreeing with his staff that Sony will never have a big enough muzzle to stop them from standing up for what's right.
So yes, that's exactly what she's suggesting.
urban dictionary is from 2020. but apparently Lil B (who?) popularized it. And it's an alt-right term for un-woke? I hate slang.
I'm not sure why you would think that. This is literally the exact opposite of what's actually happened so far. Insomniac wanted to put out a statement and was told no by Sony. Ted Price wrote an email to all Insomniac staff that said Sony "will not approve ANY statements from any studio on the topic of reproductive rights." Jim Ryan also wrote a separate email that said everyone must "respect differences of opinion." Also, make no mistake, the decision has been made. It might not be 100% official, but Roe v. Wade is absolutely being overturned. It's not a matter of if, but when.
It does seem incredibly lame of Bungie to try to market their current stance for hiring purposes when they're about to be purchased by a publisher that seemingly has taken the opposite stance (outspoken versus a silent "respect difference of opinion"). When that deal closes, they will be owned by Sony and we have yet to see what sort of climate Bungie will be stepping into in regards to the tolerance of public statements like the one Bungie made. I would like to think Bungie has made that incredibly clear with PlayStation, but I doubt PlayStation would blindly commit to something like that ahead of time given how they've approached the situation to this point.
There's an urban dictionary article from 2011 describing based, it's definitely not new. It's not an alt-right term either, just like hello isn't even if alt-righters use it to introduce each other.
It goes pretty far back, as I remember it being a new development that racists had sort of co-opted it in 2016. I wanna say I distinctly remember in circa 2012, and it had no racist connotation.
"Based is a slang term [...] for being yourself and not caring what others think of you—to carry yourself with swagger."
No I responded to you in particular but more as a general frustration as yeah, he talked about cats in that email, but he also talked about dogs knowing their place in an email basically saying "no discourse about abortion rights allowed". The email, when referenced, should focus on Jim surreptitiously collating bodily autonomy with good boys "knowing their place".
The Bloomberg article fails for this too when the link is right there. As did the Sony employee.
I want to believe, but I don't have faith that they will stay vocal once officially acquired. Insomniac and Sony have always been tied at the hip and they gagged them. IDK. We'll see, and I hope they do have autonomy to remain a voice in the industry.
Right but nowhere is she saying or implying that you should leave your job at another Sony studio to join Bungie.
The message is, we stand up for what we believe in and will always have the independence to do so, if you like that we are hiring.
Im just saying it's not framed to be a message only to people at Sony studios annoyed by their stance but a blanket statement to anyone.
I love that Bungie is standing up and voicing this opinion, but what I'm worried about is they're not currently OWNED by Sony as of yet.
What happens after the ink is dry? Will they be allowed to say anything after that? It's easy to say something now as they're not owned by Sony yet. That's what I'm worried about.
What happens after the ink is dry? Will they be allowed to say anything after that? It's easy to say something now as they're not owned by Sony yet. That's what I'm worried about.
They are maintaining their own board of directors, w/ nobody from Sony on that board of directors.
As far as I can tell, they are some weird "owned but independent" company likely by contract.
My guess is that contract is limited though; probably time limited.
It's not a partnership it's an acquisition it can't be time limited and jim ryan will be the boss to the board of director
I really REALLY hope so.
Bungie is the one studio that is continuously being a voice for those who need a voice and it would be disgusting if they were silenced because of this buyout.
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Well... shit.
Yeah, no doubt Bungie will be silenced like all the other studios.
Let's hope for the best since Sony need them more than they need sony and they also signed a contract to be more independent that the other sony owned studio
I'm aware it's an acquisition; all kinds of purchase terms can be time limited in an acquisition. Bungie appears to be maintaining some level of autonomy, and have confidently stated so enough, combined with all of the wording in the Sony PR on the purchase, for me to believe it.
I don't believe however anything like that would be permeant or unlimited.
I agree that their more independant than other sony owned studio but the aquistion will be permanent unless they buy themselve but sony will have to agree
I'm talking about whatever agreement Bungie leaders have in place for the independence, not the purchase.
I'm saying the purchase is permeant, but all of the "independence" stuff is likely limited by time and potentially other factors (my guess is if Parsons leaves it all goes out the window.) Or maybe the independence IS permeant too.. I don't know, but I think there is some contractual independence there.
If there is absolutely nothing contractual stopping Sony from meddling in their creative process (or publishing of games/what platform), like any subsidiary normally would have to put up with, that's a whole lot of fluff from both Sony and Bungie saying to the contrary. And I could see that independence stretching to other things, considering the board will be who "runs" Bungie.
This is all stuff regulators are keen on looking at too so it would be pretty wild to have that all just be PR.
I really hope so. They are the one studio who is actually going above and beyond when it comes to voicing their opinions. So losing that will be a huge shame.
Oh ok sorry I just got it, and IMO i think the independence is permanent in the contract
Yeah really Bungie is only one of 3 studio that spoke about this issue and the first one to do it, all the other studios or pubs said nothing so i really hope they're able to continue and really have the indepence they say they have
Working for Bungie would be appealing, but knowing you're then going to be working for Sony should give anyone pause now given Sonys history of being shit to women.
