Some were. But as we've already discussed above there are better reasons to distinguish the two situations.
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British Protestors teardown statue of 17th Century Slave Trader.
- Thread starter Midgarian
- Start date
Some were. But as we've already discussed above there are better reasons to distinguish the two situations.
Yeah, I'd be curious when this statue was erected...
1895 apparently, from a post from the last page.
I think there are a couple of criteria you can use to judge whether or not a statue should be put up / remain in place
1. What is the purpose of the statue?
2. What is the primary legacy of the person being commemorated?
3. Does the statue have some special artistic / historical legacy?
I think this statue fairly clearly fails to meet these criteria. 1) It was put up to celebrate the individual who we all agree (I hope) was immoral. 2) is the the area of ambiguity which explains why it was put up in the first place. I suppose the perception in the 1890s was that his primary legacy was his philanthropic work. I think at this point we'd all agree that him being a slave trader is more significant. 3) The statue has no real artistic / historical significance.
Regardless, I think this criteria helps sort out some of the discussion happening above. The pyramids or w/e clearly have significant historical and artistic value. The primary purpose of keeping auschwitz nowerdays educate people etc. Another example is I think having a statue of William of Orange in Westminster to celebrate the (so called) glorious revolution seems fine whereas having the same statue in Derry to commemorate the Siege of Derry is clearly a sectarian attack on the Catholics who live there.
1. What is the purpose of the statue?
2. What is the primary legacy of the person being commemorated?
3. Does the statue have some special artistic / historical legacy?
I think this statue fairly clearly fails to meet these criteria. 1) It was put up to celebrate the individual who we all agree (I hope) was immoral. 2) is the the area of ambiguity which explains why it was put up in the first place. I suppose the perception in the 1890s was that his primary legacy was his philanthropic work. I think at this point we'd all agree that him being a slave trader is more significant. 3) The statue has no real artistic / historical significance.
Regardless, I think this criteria helps sort out some of the discussion happening above. The pyramids or w/e clearly have significant historical and artistic value. The primary purpose of keeping auschwitz nowerdays educate people etc. Another example is I think having a statue of William of Orange in Westminster to celebrate the (so called) glorious revolution seems fine whereas having the same statue in Derry to commemorate the Siege of Derry is clearly a sectarian attack on the Catholics who live there.
US should have dismantled the confederacy in its entirety after winning. By letting the remnants stay around it gave rise to favourable sentiments for the confederacy.
Lol fuck off.
It baffles me the kind of shit she says, despite being a PoC...especially one with Indian origin she should be well aware of how British treated Indians.
Fine, gonna just say it I guess.
Priti Patel is someone he would have bought and sold long ago.
Thomas Jefferson, known slave rapist, also needs to get that work. Hell, he even spooked fellow slaveholder Washington in how hard he dehumanized black folks:
The Dark Side of Thomas Jefferson
A new portrait of the founding father challenges the long-held perception of Thomas Jefferson as a benevolent slaveholder
www.smithsonianmag.com
Dude was a monster, and was definitely not just a product of his time given that his contemporaries called him out over his viciousness and evil. I have just as much hate for that man than I do any of the confederate proto-nazis
This dude killed 19,000 slaves during their transportation and threw them into the sea to save weight. Where's their statues?
Conservatism is a hell of a drug.
Conservatism is a hell of a drug.
It's not that surprising. England has one if the largest non-white populations in Europe - including a sizable black population - that often is scrutinized and brutalized by the police more often than the white counterparts. Seems completely rational, esp in a city like Bristol whee Black Britons are the largest visible minority group.
Patel backs policies that would have prevented her parents from coming to the UK. She's absolutely messed up.
This is funny because the British are the finest vandals in the history of humankind.
They vandalized Africa
They vandalized Asia
They vandalized North America
They vandalized Oceania
Hell they even vandalized parts of Europe.
No one has ever been better at vandalizing. But now they cryin over one worthless statue of a worthless person.
The amount of black people that England has fucked over is unfathomable
She doesn't believe it, she's a grifter. Fairly certain she treats all British people with contempt.
Cry some more you useless fuck.
Where was her dumb ass when coronavirus was a thing?
Brizzle/Twerton Redneck: "But moi heritage babber! S'not about slaaavery innam? S'about moi 'iiiistry an that."
translators note: Brizzle is Bristol
in all this talk about defunding police and reparations-
Police Manhattan Project/GI Bill/New Deal for US police reform
what about a kind of two for one racism GI Bill- continue to reform the existing police but in tandem create a new template, syllabus and structure — requiring a college degree for a vastly more professional, properly trained, efficient and demilitarized force - and pay for and subsidize African American and other qualifying POC education for management and officer posts. Transition from the existing system into the new and more prestigious, efficient one with a giant influx of senior officers and administrators as POC to push the old generation out organically.
students could focus on different aspects of policing as a new hybrid role- community support, emt, de-escalation etc. A cop would end up being exactly who you'd want on a desert island with you let alone showing up at an emergency or a crime scene.
the criteria for officers would translate into other professions - Law, IT, psychology, poli-sci as well as basic medical and other practical training for the job - creating a new class of professional and educational avenues for low income people of color and tracks toward that in public schools but not as dead ends or segregated lanes - those students could still change course based on evolving interests or abilities.
for folks who just can't make the educational requirements for "officers" they can still get well paid jobs as rank and file policemen for the nuts and bolts of parking tickets and paperwork and so on. The force would no longer be attractive to bullies and Rambo cosplayers and it would look like the community.
poor white kids could still apply for financial assistance if they have the grades and middle class White kids now have a new essential profession with a career trajectory to be educated for.
Sell it to racists as a fast track for "the good ones " but honestly just tell racists to stfu and suck it up. And that when they see a black man in a uniform that's a sign that either help is here or shit just got real.
Obviously there's a billion underlying issues to deal with to get to this - private prisons and the prison and justice parasite economy would have to die.
translators note: Brizzle is Bristol
in all this talk about defunding police and reparations-
Police Manhattan Project/GI Bill/New Deal for US police reform
what about a kind of two for one racism GI Bill- continue to reform the existing police but in tandem create a new template, syllabus and structure — requiring a college degree for a vastly more professional, properly trained, efficient and demilitarized force - and pay for and subsidize African American and other qualifying POC education for management and officer posts. Transition from the existing system into the new and more prestigious, efficient one with a giant influx of senior officers and administrators as POC to push the old generation out organically.
students could focus on different aspects of policing as a new hybrid role- community support, emt, de-escalation etc. A cop would end up being exactly who you'd want on a desert island with you let alone showing up at an emergency or a crime scene.
the criteria for officers would translate into other professions - Law, IT, psychology, poli-sci as well as basic medical and other practical training for the job - creating a new class of professional and educational avenues for low income people of color and tracks toward that in public schools but not as dead ends or segregated lanes - those students could still change course based on evolving interests or abilities.
for folks who just can't make the educational requirements for "officers" they can still get well paid jobs as rank and file policemen for the nuts and bolts of parking tickets and paperwork and so on. The force would no longer be attractive to bullies and Rambo cosplayers and it would look like the community.
poor white kids could still apply for financial assistance if they have the grades and middle class White kids now have a new essential profession with a career trajectory to be educated for.
Sell it to racists as a fast track for "the good ones " but honestly just tell racists to stfu and suck it up. And that when they see a black man in a uniform that's a sign that either help is here or shit just got real.
Obviously there's a billion underlying issues to deal with to get to this - private prisons and the prison and justice parasite economy would have to die.
Lol i must admit I havent travelled the country much. Doesnt surprise me that they are everywhere though
There is a statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Westminster.
He committed genocide in Ireland.
"Ant-" is a valid prefix. It's a variant of anti and means the same thing.
Yes, an example that most don't know is that up until the 60s they were hanging and burning Cypriots alive for wanting independence from them. The "good" British that won the war and freed Europe just a few years earlier.
It's not perfect but they can learn from the dissolution of the RUC in Northern Ireland which transformed from a state run paramilitary force into the PSNI (and not the sadly missed opportunity of NIPS). IT became a public force that was forced to improve the Catholic-Protestant diversity mix in order to function. The RUC was as corrupt as it could be, and while the PSNI isn't amazing it allowed the state to make changes that benefitted the country.
There is a statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Westminster.
He committed genocide in Ireland.
Would happily see the Churchill one torn down too. Great wartime leader he may have been, but an absolutely horrible man.
A lot of people tend to forget that the year Britain won it's glorious victory against the Nazis Churchill was voted out and replaced by Clement Atlee. I don't know much about Atlee's history with race but at the time Churchill was voted out he was not seen as a good leader in peacetime. I mean, winning a war for your nation's survival would normally help you win the next election easily!
Walked past that statue many a time, and always wondered why?
Now, wonder it the suggested name changes of Colston Hall might resurface.
also, we have some other street names around the city centre that were the subject of being changed such as Black Boy Hill and White Ladies Road.
Now, wonder it the suggested name changes of Colston Hall might resurface.
also, we have some other street names around the city centre that were the subject of being changed such as Black Boy Hill and White Ladies Road.
To further showcase how cheap the confederate statues in the US are.
Watch the video of protestors taking down that statue in Bristol. Hits the ground. Nice, satisfying "thud".
Meanwhile, this confederate statue collapses like an accordion because it's a mass produced piece of shit.
Watch the video of protestors taking down that statue in Bristol. Hits the ground. Nice, satisfying "thud".
Meanwhile, this confederate statue collapses like an accordion because it's a mass produced piece of shit.
Tories gonna Tory, and Priti is a strong contender for the worst of them.
(I don't know much about UK politics, if this guy is problematic lemme know)
a statue isn't a proper history lesson anyways, it's commemorating a murderer and hiding his crimes. If you want to teach about the atrocities of a slave trader, maybe don't have a fucking effigy devoted to him and teach it in history books and classes.
People hate her, latching onto anything to get her numbers up.
Statue aside British really don't know sod all about the empire etc. It's all Michael Caine Zulu, Sharpe, dipping a toe via WW2, we built them railroads lol, they were long fighting before we turned up, savages, black people sold themselves out etc. It's shameful, documentaries are wall to wall WW2. It's like a secret push back against truth or they don't have any archive footage to sell.
gonna have to wait a while for that. it simply wouldn't fly in the uk right now and even his detractors concede his value at that moment. One thing that could be a start is to adequately cite what these people did honestly and directly. "Led nation during wwii but also oversaw and ordered atrocities againsthis fellow men" - at least then the heritage and history argument is real -
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Colston hall have already said they will reopen with a new name.
Not sure if true or not, but whiteladies road and Blackboy hill don't have anything to do with the slave trade.
Colston school and one of my favourite pubs (colston yard) need to change their names. Not sure how I feel about the various streets which named after colston, but wouldn't mind if they are changed.
we do need to be careful that we don't totally erase Bristol's links to the slave trade but there are better ways of doing it than having a statue of a slave trader in the centre of the city.
Edit: some of sort of memorial to the victims of the slave trade should go up where that statue was.
If that's true, I now classify myself as ant-social.
I only socialize with ants while gladly ignoring other obscure insectile prefixes. 🐜
As someone who suffered years of racist abuse (both physical and verbal) almost on a daily basis, I have become hardened, and even feel a bit bewildered by some of these recent events. But this event made me weep. These are great people. They remind me of the white people who would befriend me in opposition to the racists.
Some years age Churchill was voted the greatest Briton in a massive TV poll: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2509465.stm How times are changing.
Some years age Churchill was voted the greatest Briton in a massive TV poll: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2509465.stm How times are changing.
Literally nothing of value was lost. I don't care if he gave millions upon millions, he made that money selling people like animals. Now do the same for every statue in the U.S.
It's not, it's just lazy whataboutism and like you said, missing the tone each one sets.
I live in Lancaster, another old slave port and I couldn't even begin to count the number of streets named after slavers. Even this statue in Bristol, is on Colston Avenue next to Colston Tower etc etc. Same in Liverpool and Glasgow.
Priti Patel is almost certainly racist to her core. Anyone of South Asian descent will tell you they will not struggle to find the likes of Priti Patel in their own family. She is an absolute horrendous piece of shit.