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HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
I'll never forgive those assholes for making it impossible to have a legitimate critical discussion of Captain Marvel. Personally, I think that everyone deserved a better-written character and film than what we got and it really has nothing to do with Larson's involvement. She's fine.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,422
Carol being cocky and confident is a perfectly fine (maybe even necessary) personality trait.

But since people are mentioning Tony, it's a very different type of confidence. Tony's cockiness and general arrogance is a form of defence - he's a guy who's absolutely buried under guilt and fear of failing, of having to fight gods and aliens wearing only a suit of armor, without any real superpower at his disposal. He's constantly afraid of failing, and he copes by acting arrogant and being as flamboyant as possibile about his status.


You are confusing Tony's entire character arc over 10 years with Tony.

Ironman 1 Tony was as cocky, arrogant, confident as he ever was. And that was long before any aliens, guilt, or gods or aliens were brought into his sphere of awareness by all these MCU movies.

And the reaction to him being that way? Was audiences raved and it began the MCU.

Carol has had one movie as an introduction. You haven't had enough time to find out what her fears, struggles and more are. Lets keep it 100. The reaction was not the same for Tony. At all.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,148
Pissant sexist shitheads. Wish someone would have the courage to actually denounce them as the toxic fans they are, and actually suggest they don't watch these movies.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
You are confusing Tony's entire character arc over 10 years with Tony.

Ironman 1 Tony was as cocky, arrogant, confident as he ever was. And that was long before any aliens, guilt, or gods or aliens were brought into his sphere of awareness by all these MCU movies.

And the reaction to him being that way? Was audiences raved and it began the MCU.

Carol has had one movie as an introduction. You haven't had enough time to find out what her fears, struggles and more are. Lets keep it 100. The reaction was not the same for Tony. At all.


Whatever negative reaction to Carol's "arrogance" emerged on social media was rooted in sexism and insecurity, and that's not for debate.

But for the rest... no. Tony was a flawed, insecure character from the get go. He's pretty much a piece of shit at the beginning of the movie, and he spends the rest of the story overcoming himself, not an external threat. Tony's biggest fear and enemy, beginning with Iron Man 1, is Tony himself. The scene where he realizes he can use repulsors as weapons ends with him shooting his own reflection in anger.

Also, people constantly get back at Tony for his arrogance. Pepper, Rhody, Natasha - everyone close to him constantly puts him in his place. His arrogance is balanced out because it's acknowledge in the story. People know it's an act.


Carol is a different character. I think arrogant is a really poor and dishonest word for describing her attitude. She's confident, and collected. She's Superman basically. She has to overcome others, in her story, not her character flaws. She's got nothing to compensate for. She's got no glaring flaw of character.


Now, she was going to piss off those people anyways, but honestly I don't give a shit about what they think or feel. I care about the character, and I hope they manage to make her more interesting than Superman is, without giving ammo to the people who can't wait to see her fail (as the memes about her being punched by Thanos prove).
 

derder

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
371
I'm not hip to the hate. Is Carol/Brie Larson the first MCU hero to have to fight off sexism and insecurity?
 

ParanoidRED

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,931
Not for black widow, but scar jo had to endure shit like this

tenor.gif


And she only had to "laugh" to not make things bad for her at that time.

and then you ask why people like Billionaire Brie had enough with shit like this in the industry.
That's pretty fuckin disgusting, first time i hear about it as well :/
 

Laserdisk

Banned
May 11, 2018
8,942
UK
Where did this whole straight white men hate of strong women start? It seems like it was overnight almost
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,995
Where did this whole straight white men hate of strong women start? It seems like it was overnight almost
It's been here all along. It became more noticeable because women started calling it out instead of adjusting their lives around it. And the internet, of course. Always the internet.
 

Deleted member 17658

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,468
People that see him as a hero creep me out. People watch deep shows and still only do surface level reads on them
I don't know how anyone can see him as a hero after that final season. I actually had to stop watching the show for like a few months partway through the season cause I was so disgusted with Walter.
 

Leandras

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,462
Just finished watching Captain Marvel because friends said it's needed for Endgame and I have to say it was great! She's easily in my top 3!

Online trolls gonna meme and act as the satly sniwflakes they are but I hope she's here to stay along with T'challa.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Banned
Sep 16, 2018
705
I will never understand why people get so involved discussing celebs who don't really give a rat's ass about anyone arguing for or against them.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,995
Just finished watching Captain Marvel because friends said it's needed for Endgame and I have to say it was great! She's easily in my top 3!

Online trolls gonna meme and act as the satly sniwflakes they are but I hope she's here to stay along with T'challa.
Carol, T'challa, and Peter are gonna straight up carry Phase 4.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
I'm not hip to the hate. Is Carol/Brie Larson the first MCU hero to have to fight off sexism and insecurity?

Brie is way more outspoken than the others have been off screen and a lot of what she talks about is about groups that she herself isn't even a part of. This whole controversy around her started because she said she thought big movie studios should allow access to more women of color film reviewers for screenings and press tours so the questions and perspectives aren't so uniform.

ScarJo might say that actresses deserve more pay to be closer to men, but Brie was recently asked about gay superheroes and her response was that Marvel isn't moving fast enough toward representation and then she also said: "I don't think we think about that all the time as kids. I think we accept what we have, but to see this new generation of boys and girls, or kids who don't identify as either, being able to see this on screen and to not know anything different is really exciting."

She's casually genuinely woke and appears to always want to use her position of power and privilege to be an ally who pushes for people with less advantages.

It must be infuriating for them.
 

derder

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
371
Brie is way more outspoken than the others have been off screen and a lot of what she talks about is about groups that she herself isn't even a part of. This whole controversy around her started because she said she thought big movie studios should allow access to more women of color film reviewers for screenings and press tours so the questions and perspectives aren't so uniform.

ScarJo might say that actresses deserve more pay to be closer to men, but Brie was recently asked about gay superheroes and her response was that Marvel isn't moving fast enough toward representation and then she also said: "I don't think we think about that all the time as kids. I think we accept what we have, but to see this new generation of boys and girls, or kids who don't identify as either, being able to see this on screen and to not know anything different is really exciting."

She's casually genuinely woke and appears to always want to use her position of power and privilege to be an ally who pushes for people with less advantages.

It must be infuriating for them.

Are any of the other actors actively talking about these issues? The only other outspoken behavior I am aware of comes from David Bautista about James Gunn
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,390
Are any of the other actors actively talking about these issues? The only other outspoken behavior I am aware of comes from David Bautista about James Gunn
Chris Evans, Mark Ruffalo, Samuel L Jackson, and Don Cheadle to start with.

So I've noticed a really dumb trend among ComicsGaters and alt right types where they created a petition calling for Brie Larson to step down and for the role to be filled by a "black lesbian woman".
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Just finished watching Captain Marvel because friends said it's needed for Endgame and I have to say it was great! She's easily in my top 3!

Online trolls gonna meme and act as the satly sniwflakes they are but I hope she's here to stay along with T'challa.

Carol and T'Challa made a billion so they're not going anywhere lol

what the FUCK at that ScarJo gif? Whats the story there?

That occurred on one of those Hollywood gossip shows on the red carpet.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,585
I swear I keep reading this thread title as "Brie Larson hates memes."

they're back, and it's really bad.
 

Meia

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,015
You are confusing Tony's entire character arc over 10 years with Tony.

Ironman 1 Tony was as cocky, arrogant, confident as he ever was. And that was long before any aliens, guilt, or gods or aliens were brought into his sphere of awareness by all these MCU movies.

And the reaction to him being that way? Was audiences raved and it began the MCU.

Carol has had one movie as an introduction. You haven't had enough time to find out what her fears, struggles and more are. Lets keep it 100. The reaction was not the same for Tony. At all.


Carol doesn't seem all that human is the problem. Yes, she constantly has to leave earth, but that doesn't exactly endear her to anyone. It'd be like if Iron Man 1 didn't have Pepper or Happy in it. She gets her memories back, has a heartfelt reunion with her best friend and a kid she helped raise with her, then she fucks off into space for 20 years.


End Game caused the problem to grow if anything.
Ant Man comes back, like first thing he does is go to the monuments and worriedly look for his daughter. We don't see Carol do the same with her supposed loved ones, do we?


Again, have no problem with Brie, but the scripts haven't been all that stellar for the movies she's been in for Captain Marvel.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Carol doesn't seem all that human is the problem. Yes, she constantly has to leave earth, but that doesn't exactly endear her to anyone. It'd be like if Iron Man 1 didn't have Pepper or Happy in it. She gets her memories back, has a heartfelt reunion with her best friend and a kid she helped raise with her, then she fucks off into space for 20 years.


End Game caused the problem to grow if anything.
Ant Man comes back, like first thing he does is go to the monuments and worriedly look for his daughter. We don't see Carol do the same with her supposed loved ones, do we?


Again, have no problem with Brie, but the scripts haven't been all that stellar for the movies she's been in for Captain Marvel.

She has a closer connection to Earth than Starlord. Do you think he's not human?

Why wouldn't being out in the universe saving people not endear her to people? Earth has numerous heroes, there are planets with none. It's not like Thor hasn't this before.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,641
Costa Rica
Carol doesn't seem all that human is the problem. Yes, she constantly has to leave earth, but that doesn't exactly endear her to anyone. It'd be like if Iron Man 1 didn't have Pepper or Happy in it. She gets her memories back, has a heartfelt reunion with her best friend and a kid she helped raise with her, then she fucks off into space for 20 years.


End Game caused the problem to grow if anything.
Ant Man comes back, like first thing he does is go to the monuments and worriedly look for his daughter. We don't see Carol do the same with her supposed loved ones, do we?


Again, have no problem with Brie, but the scripts haven't been all that stellar for the movies she's been in for Captain Marvel.

She's had 1 movie.

Imagine if we based out opinion on Tony Stark on Iron Man 2 only
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,513
End Game caused the problem to grow if anything.
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This is kind of the problem with Captain Marvel's script being written concurrently with (and the film being shot AFTER) Endgame. They didn't really have a handle on what would be in Carol's solo film early enough, they just knew what her powerset would be.

That's a major part of why Carol is basically an afterthought in Endgame - they basically rushed her into the universe very, very quickly.
 

Meia

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,015
She's had 1 movie.

Imagine if we based out opinion on Tony Stark on Iron Man 2 only


You're right, and Marvel has been overall so I'm sure it's just a weird blip in terms of character. But it's a blip.


She has a closer connection to Earth than Starlord. Do you think he's not human?

Why wouldn't being out in the universe saving people not endear her to people? Earth has numerous heroes, there are planets with none. It's not like Thor hasn't this before.


The Starlord point would have more merit if his mother didn't die and then as a kid he didn't do everything in his power to get back to Earth. But that's not what happened as he lost basically his entire reason to even be on the planet as a kid, so that makes sense. Marvel doesn't have this.

I'm sure you could even argue that she did go back to earth to see her loved ones whenever she could, and since her inclusion in this whole thing seems rather rushed to get her into End Game, it was messy. This doesn't mean it's not open to criticism.

I'm sure she didn't relocate who she had to, and literally stayed off planet for a whole 20 years gallivanting across the cosmos while seemingly avoiding earth, but we've gotten no hint that that wasn't the case either.
If both of the people on earth she cared for were gone, I can see a character like her throwing herself into her work, and it would have been the work of like a minute worth of a scene in End Game.
 

Rydeen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
Seattle, WA.
I'll never forgive those assholes for making it impossible to have a legitimate critical discussion of Captain Marvel. Personally, I think that everyone deserved a better-written character and film than what we got and it really has nothing to do with Larson's involvement. She's fine.
This is my biggest issue, too. There are some serious structural issues in Captain Marvel that made it a less than satisfying MCU movie at this point, but it can't even be discussed because of all the jack-asses who have an axe to grind against Brie Larson.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
You're right, and Marvel has been overall so I'm sure it's just a weird blip in terms of character. But it's a blip.

How is it a weird "blip" for her character?

The Starlord point would have more merit if his mother didn't die and then as a kid he didn't do everything in his power to get back to Earth. But that's not what happened as he lost basically his entire reason to even be on the planet as a kid, so that makes sense. Marvel doesn't have this.

Except he could have re-established connections as an adult, like Marvel did. He had his own spaceship and everything. His entire reason can't be his mother as he never lost his deep love for her, and he still ignored Earth as a priority as an adult.

I'm sure you could even argue that she did go back to earth to see her loved ones whenever she could, and since her inclusion in this whole thing seems rather rushed to get her into End Game, it was messy. This doesn't mean it's not open to criticism.

This would invalidate your point the she's got no ties to Earth. How was it rushed? They made her a cameo in the movie which was meant to be done while her movie was in production, they meant for her to be a heavy hitter cameo from day one in Endgame. What hurt Marvel the most was logistics, since she was shooting her own movie and hadn't ironed out her personality yet and the fact the movie wasn't big enough to have her as a main character. It was Tony, Nebula, Cap and Thor's time to shine.

I'm sure she didn't relocate who she had to, and literally stayed off planet for a whole 20 years gallivanting across the cosmos while seemingly avoiding earth, but we've gotten no hint that that wasn't the case either.
If both of the people on earth she cared for were gone, I can see a character like her throwing herself into her work, and it would have been the work of like a minute worth of a scene in End Game.

They left it vague, we don't have any confirmation other than she was in space the majority of the time. Nothing refutes the idea she didn't come back to Earth every so often. It's a blank slate they can fill in at their leisure.
Perhaps, but than she'd in Starlord's position, and you seem fine with him.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,645
People saying Carol's cockiness didn't make sense has never met a fighter pilot (or hell, just about ANY pilot). It's pretty much a defining character trait for pilots.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
All this stuff makes me just like her more



Like how can you hate her?

And here we see Brie Larson asserting her dominance over an innocent little girl only asking her questions about superheros. Observe how she leans over her aggressively, signaling that she will not be challenged..

The arrogance on display is startling.. this ice queen must be stopped.
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,502
An employee at work I actually really liked went on a small tirade about how Captain Marvel was the only film he hadn't seen of the Marvel movies becuase it was "political" and went on a tangent about how insufferable he thinks Brie Larson is. My heart sank and it's really disappointing how embedded this shit has gotten.