Doesn't Canada have a deal with the EU exactly like that though? Or have I been brainwashed by the far right.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Doesn't Canada have a deal with the EU exactly like that though? Or have I been brainwashed by the far right.
Canada deal still has some tariffs in some goods, and there is the thing of Canada being located one giant ocean away instead of next door. It is harder to transfer industry and companies from Europe to Canada than from Germany to England.
OP
OP
Canada is an ocean away and therefore not able to undercut the EU in any meaningful way. Same with Japan
He may have mentioned the war once or twice and gotten away with it as well.
Yes, certainly I agree, I was making a kind of contextless comment. It is very rare these days that I think a British request for anything is sensible and fair.
I struggle to divine if the Brexiteers in charge of the country are genuinely that stupid or if this is just a way of ensuring they stay popular with their base and damn the consequences to any one else.
Both a reprehensible and equally baffling ways of living your life.
Yep whatever Boris does here he'll be gone after brexit or if there is a deal due to tory infighting either way.
Thanks, actually Ros Atkins just now did a fantastic piece specifically on this subject on the BBC News.
Thread worth reading.
Yep, some view No Deal as an opportunity.
Edit: Let's see what they respond with:
Does Forsyth have sources in Brussels?
No? Then he's full of shit.
Isn't he married to BJ's press secretary?
Edit: yes he is.
Just the tiniest taste of things to come.
Remember British beach / river quality in the 80s? I do.
Rivers are already turning.
Environment Agency chief supports plan to weaken river pollution rules
Campaigners say Sir James Bevan is trying to ‘rig system’ and cover up decades of failure
www.theguardian.com
OP
OP
I actually deal with some of this in a tangential way.
There's multiple things going on with freight at the moment:
- There is a global problem with shipping. There aren't enough containers, those big metal shipping containers that are used to transport millions of different things around the world. This is COVID related. As China opened up before everyone else and their economy boomed, along with a lot of other Asian countries global shipping has been pointed towards them. Normally containers are sent with products one way and delivered to a country before being refilled with products to be returned to another country. Makes the sailings far more efficient. However, global exporting took a nosedive since a lot of manufacturing had to shut up shop. Now China is importing a lot, it was the only really active economy for a while, and not exporting very much. Altogether this means that there are a lot of containers stranded in Asia. Shipping companies don't want to ship them back empty as there is zero value.
- As a side effect freight prices go up but also shipping lines don't want/aren't able to run ships to countries with less trade. The hauliers just don't have enough containers in many ports. That means delays for countries further down the pecking order. Also delays at ports as ships end up waiting for spare containers to come in.
- Specifically in Britain, lots of importers are stocking up on good/produce/raw material to cope with whatever Brexit brings. This makes the ports far busier than normal, including the smaller ones that often see a lot less action.
- This is also taking up our limited warehousing space, as loads more companies are looking to stock material. Those that can't get storage space are facing the prospect of their purchases being stranded in the port, adding to delays, as really ports aren't meant to store much, everything is supposed to keep on the move.
- All this combined means there are loads of delays at ports and with the movement of goods in general.
- As Brexit looms, some freight companies are just going to full on avoid coming here, they've already said this, it's not an educated guess. A medium sized haulage firm will end up losing money if their trucks get stuck in a queue at Calais or Dover and they probably can't avoid that. Potentially this could help ease some congestion but we just don't know until it happens.
- How each company copes will be entirely dependent on their circumstance. I know many are as prepared as they can be but they also don't know what they are preparing for. They are basically putting aside as much as they can, keep in mind some of them didn't have any storage space to begin with. Others just haven't done anything because they have no clear idea what they can do.
There is real potential for lots of small companies to be sunk by this, if they can't get hold of the material they need. Not to mention we could be facing real delays in the provision of food. Panic buying would only increase this and I can't see how panic buying doesn't happen if we start getting bare shelves again.
Actually this matches with what was discussed on the BBC. The British side feel that Barnier is the obstacle. Apparently, while Barnier was in isolation, an aide took over and basically conceded a lot of ground and the Brits were overjoyed. Then Barnier came back and over ruled all that and that's when we heard of the EU suddenly hardening their stance and all that - the Brits want to go back to the deal agreed with Barnier's aide.
The fact that he is running around like this in a panic shows that he want's a deal. He probably knows a no deal won't go very well for him, least of all the country.
No, it shows that he wants someone else to blame for a lack of deal.
Question: Is an accelerationist-esque outcome possible in the near future? That is, with 4 years til the next general election, is it conceivable for everything to go so comprehensively to shit that Labour or the Greens can campaign on re-entering the EU? I know the EU have said they don't want the UK to even consider rejoining in the capacity that we were before, so that would obviously mean a campaign based on a Federalist Europe and membership of the Euro with full FoM. But! I can absolutely see traditional Labour voters/working class being gutted by all of this - food price rises, car manufacturing leaving, general manufacturing plummeting - which could change perceptions in the short term.
The fact that they are really trashing the offered deal now makes it that much harder for them to eventually agree. Boris basically saying that no Prime Minister would accept the offered terms - what's he going to do after a month and he is still the PM and has to accept the offer?
Honestly I cannot see it happening within the next two decades.
Accelerationism is what former friends of mine told me was why they voted for Brexit despite being "left".
I mean, yes, there's hope things are so bad they will get better sooner rather than later, but the whole Brexit thing ending up with a Tory majority and a no-deal is indicating that things just get worse and worse.
I mean, yes, there's hope things are so bad they will get better sooner rather than later, but the whole Brexit thing ending up with a Tory majority and a no-deal is indicating that things just get worse and worse.
No, your best bet is a Norway type relationship until trust is rebuilt to even think about rejoining. It's going to take decades.
OP
OP
I mean it will go as with the WA.
They all trashed that then boris got a few words exchanged and was celebrated as a hero even though it was a shitty deal for the UK
I think this is true to the extent that we're prepared to be generous with our definition of "wants".
Boris "wants" a deal in the same way that people "want" to win prizes in a competition. He wants to get something handed to him with minimal effort or engagement on his part - maybe some kind of irrelevantly small initial investment of time or money.
He doesn't "want" a deal the same way that people want to earn, say, a promotion or a qualification or similar. He doesn't want to have to work at it, to have to put in the effort to make it happen and overcome the challenges along the way.
So even to the extent that it's true to say that he wants a deal, it's not all that useful because he's not prepared to turn that want into real action. It might be better to say that he wishes for a deal.
Boo. Understandable, but still frustrating.
But likely that aide was very clear he couldn't make those choices. He just wasn't shooting them down immediately.
Gotta get rid of the Tories first, which will be an uphill battle regardless...
OP
OP
If you want to live in the EU your best chance is probably moving to ireland or move to scotland and hope they go independent.
Most definitely. Johnson and co. think that they got a deal with the aide ten days ago and then Barnier came back and said no because France and therefore they think can get a good deal without Barnier. The fact that Johnson seriously pushed for this to Von Der Leyen is hilarious.
I think it would need to be a combination of time, a government other than a Conservative one dealing with the EU in good faith (which I'm confident the current Labour leadership would), and probably the current generation of Tory leadership no longer being in frontline politics so there's no chance of a repeat.
So yeah, we're talking years. I'd hope Labour would aim for closer alignment gradually over time and we'd have something of a patchwork arrangement like the Swiss which leads to further talks.
Last edited:
Always is. :(
Once Covid restrictions loosen, I can request the last of the evidence I need to apply for Irish Citizenship (just need a couple of documents from the Oxford Register). But that feels like an "I'm all right, Jack" endgame, as it's great for me and my wife, but not particularly useful for my friends/everyone else.
The only thing that really has accelerated in today's political landscape. 2014 referendum was suppose to be the "once in a generation" chance to put the topic to rest. The political climate has changed significantly since then and independence talk is still here.
Even the fact that the UK thinks France is the 'strict' one is missing a small detail: France is one of the countries to be hit the hardest in the case of Brexit. It should be one of the easy countries to convince compared to countries like Hungary and Romania that got little to lose, and that have been blamed hard by British politicians. But they are already thinking France is a hardliner...
OP
OP
I have a hard time believing a big company like Nissan doesn't have a plan to atleast continue work in the short term before other arangements are up and running.
Maybe Funky Papa can chime in.
Last edited:
They shut a plant in Spain barely half a year ago to cut costs. I can guess what they are planning as a result of no deall, but I don't think Sunderland will like it.
OP
OP
Sure Sunderland is probably dead but before you can kill it you need to have adequate replacement production either in the EU or possibly out of Japan(?).
Nissan has been planning on leaving the EU market to their other brands for a while now (as well as globaly). As Link said, they just planned to unilaterally closing the Barcelona plant even if it costed 1B+. With the new trade deal between EU and Japan, Nissan might think t is not worth it to have a plant in UK.
Nissan is planning to reduce a ton of production in the next years and go forward to a more divided brand approach in each region.
They have a plan B: stop manufacturing in Europe and supply from Japan. Nissan sales are terrible in Europe.
A lot of the British gameplan has been to divide and conquer and it has come nowhere near working.
The EU has been totally united on this. I suppose Macron has been a bit more forthright recently but there have been no attempts by EU states to do side deals or get some advantages over anyone else. That's exactly why they had Barnier in this position, that way, everyone can refer the UK to Barnier and they don't have to engage with Britain on the side.
It shows a fundamental misunderstadning of the EU. No one is sacrificing their place and standing with a block of 26 other countries, which confers numerous benefits, to get some small advantage with an independent UK. Especially a UK government who have proven so untrustworthy and incompetent.
It also highlights exactly how this Tory party thinks politics operates. Out slime those around you and come out on top.
That Boris anecdote above rings totally true. Showing up to the EU and making some lazy xenophobic stereotypes in an attempt to build beneficial relations. The EU. Rolling into the EU, insulting the French and thinking that will get the other countries on side. I suppose we live up to our reputation in Europe at least.
Be interesting to see what happens to the public mood when the realities of Brexit start appearing - as opposed to it just being things they've heard about at a distance on TV/in the papers.
As an aside, this made me chuckle (Guardian Liveblog)
The Conservative MP Imran Ahmad Khan has criticised Angela Merkel for refusing to let Boris Johnson lobby her over the UK-EU trade talks. (See 10.57am and 12.37pm.) You can tell Ahmad Khan's a Brexiter, because he's brought up the war ...
Why do these people not realise that we're dealing with a trading bloc and not just individual leaders?
Why do they think we're still living in the shadow of WW2?
As an aside, this made me chuckle (Guardian Liveblog)
The Conservative MP Imran Ahmad Khan has criticised Angela Merkel for refusing to let Boris Johnson lobby her over the UK-EU trade talks. (See 10.57am and 12.37pm.) You can tell Ahmad Khan's a Brexiter, because he's brought up the war ...
Why do these people not realise that we're dealing with a trading bloc and not just individual leaders?
Why do they think we're still living in the shadow of WW2?
Unless fleet street turns on the Tories and Brexit they will blame everyone else before acknowledging their own part in this calamity.
You know these are the type of people who will insist we don't need to talk about slavery because it's in the past but WW2 is still the defining moment of our generation (the one who had no lived experience of it).
I'll have you know that I grew up watching Dad's Army and Allo Allo. It's like I was there. /s