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Jimbobsmells

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,166
Opinion polls.

There is currently no realistic chance of the UK rejoining nor is there really any desire from the EU to have the UK rejoin anyway so it will look good for them in the polls.
Exactly. There is absolutely no chance of winning an election on a remain ticket. The only viable option is to paint *this* Brexit as a Tory fuck up. Then in future that means more integration/ regulatory alignment to correct it, closer relationships with the EU, path to some form of membership eg customs / SM.
Got to play the long game now.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,676
Its pointless giving it much thought to be honest. The second he says any different it'll just be a stick used to beat him with.

Anti democratic! Subverting the will of the people!

It's really not a discussion we can have properly for at least another 5 years. In the mean time we're best off ensuring that our systems / laws / regulations remain as aligned as possible.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
We're still years away from it even having a chance of mattering, leave it for the tories to deal with for now.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Starmer should be starting to go in much harder on the problems related to Brexit , but a lot of the answers aren't really convenient for his political positions.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
I do wonder what Labour would do if they get a majority next GE because we can't bluff this any longer, it's already hammering us so aligning with the EU is the only option to smooth trade etc. They can't just take what Boris did and implement it fully, that doesn't solve the mess Brexit is so what are they going to do? A new deal, baby steps that nobody notices that puts us in the single market again? They can't fake this like the Tories or go searching for unicorns.
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,952
I agree that Starmer can't advocate re-joining - it's impossible politically, and unpopular with most voters.
But I wish he wouldn't parrot the government's own talking points, "taking advantage of the opportunities of Brexit". It really makes it difficult for him to criticise the government when he's making exactly the same claims.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
His only statement in regards to Brexit should be that the Tories can't be trusted. Everything else will alienate part of his audience.
The funny thing of course being that 45% of the English voters are not represented by Labour or Tory. Labour looks at those, and does nothing to placate those voters. The other 55% will vote for the party that gave them Brexit. Labour is just lucky that there is no strong pro-EU party in England like there is in Scotland.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
I do wonder what Labour would do if they get a majority next GE because we can't bluff this any longer, it's already hammering us so aligning with the EU is the only option to smooth trade etc. They can't just take what Boris did and implement it fully, that doesn't solve the mess Brexit is so what are they going to do? A new deal, baby steps that nobody notices that puts us in the single market again? They can't fake this like the Tories or go searching for unicorns.
Baby steps. Constant set of microagreements etc.. Then at some point their'll be no reason not to have another go.
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,593

Talks on Northern Ireland protocol making 'little progress', says DUP leader






www.theguardian.com

Talks on Northern Ireland protocol making ‘little progress’, says DUP leader

Sir Jeffrey Donaldson says solution unlikely before May elections, accusing UK government of reneging on promises

UK exports to EU fell by £20bn last year, new ONS data shows

Figures show Brexit compounding Covid disruption, with clothing exports plunging 60%, vegetables down 40% and cars 25%





www.theguardian.com

UK exports to EU fell by £20bn last year, new ONS data shows

Figures show Brexit compounding Covid disruption, with clothing exports plunging 60%, vegetables down 40% and cars 25%

It's true, I stopped buying Warhammer minis in the UK. Games, too. That accounts for a billion or three given current GW prices 😉

How's the additional money for the NHS doing, already have golden faucets and doctors with five months of vacation time? The guy holding mini flags for Brexit is PM, there *must* be unicorns and pota of gold!
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
It's true, I stopped buying Warhammer minis in the UK. Games, too. That accounts for a billion or three given current GW prices 😉

How's the additional money for the NHS doing, already have golden faucets and doctors with five months of vacation time? The guy holding mini flags for Brexit is PM, there *must* be unicorns and pota of gold!

Oh, some Tories have already come out with, the 350m a week is already in the NHS already. That NI hike isn't for social care either, it's plugging holes they shot through public finances with Brexit, COVID etc. There is no magic way to make more money than we lost in taxes and EU support, they are just lying hoping the truth never comes out and kicking it down the road. Proper fucked.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354
The best answer for Starmer would have been that they would not count out anything, and if the majority of the people wants to rejoin in the future, they will look at all options. or something like that.
 

Kanhir

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,888
Labour is just lucky that there is no strong pro-EU party in England like there is in Scotland.
This reminded me to check how the indyref2 polling is going in Scotland.


It looks like the back half of 2020 would have been their biggest opportunity, but the ship has very much sailed now. It's probably going to be quietly forgotten at this rate.

(There's a joke about "sunlit highlands" in here somewhere.)
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
UK businesses are calling on the government for more help exporting to Europe, after new research found that many firms believed the EU trade deal was not helping them grow or increase sales.


The British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) has surveyed 1,000 businesses, and found that a majority said it has created problems such as pushing up costs, increasing paperwork and delays, and putting the UK at a competitive disadvantage.


Just 8% of firms agreed that the Trade and Co-operation Agreement (TCA) was 'enabling their business to grow or increase sales', while 54% disagreed.


For UK exporters 12% (or just one in eight) agreed that the TCA was helping them, while 71% disagreed.


The BCC received 59 comments on the merits of the TCA, which was agreed on Christmas Eve 2020, including:

  • It had allowed some companies to continue to trade without significant change
  • It had encouraged firms to look at other global markets
  • It had provided stability to allow firms to plan.

But this was outnumbered by 320 comments criticising the deal, such as:
  • It had led to rising costs for companies and their clients
  • Smaller businesses did not have the time and money to deal with the bureaucracy it had introduced
  • It had put off EU customers from considering UK goods and services – due to the perceived costs and complexities.

William Bain, head of trade policy at the BCC, said smaller firms are particularly suffering from the change to trading relationships between the UK and the EU.

"This is the latest BCC research to clearly show there are issues with the EU trade deal that need to be improved.

"Nearly all of the businesses in this research have fewer than 250 employees and these smaller firms are feeling most of the pain of the new burdens in the TCA.

"Many of these companies have neither the time, staff or money to deal with the additional paperwork and rising costs involved with EU trade, nor can they afford to set up a new base in Europe or pay for intermediaries to represent them."


A Government spokesperson, though, says businesses are getting support to help with Brexit changes:



"The Trade and Co-operation Agreement is the world's biggest zero-tariff, zero-quota free trade deal. It allows businesses in Britain to trade freely with Europe while also being able to seize new trading opportunities with countries around the world.

"We've always been clear that being outside the single market and the customs union would mean changes and that businesses would need to adapt to new processes. That is why we are ensuring that businesses get the support they need, including through the free-to-use Export Support Service.

"Goods exports to EU nations were 4% higher last year compared with 2020. However, given the Covid-19 pandemic, global recession and supply chain disruption, it is still too early to draw any firm conclusions on the long-term impacts of our new trading relationship with the EU."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-eu-fell-by-20bn-last-year-new-ons-data-shows
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Immigration changes due to Brexit will not deliver the 'high wage' economy that Boris Johnson has promised, a new report from the Resolution Foundation shows.

Resolution has analysed UK migration trends, and concluded that the economic impact of ending freedom of movement has been exaggerated by both its supporters and opponents.

The new regime is driving changes in the UK labour market, particularly in lower-paying industries which rely on migrant labour and typically see high staff turnover, such as farming or food production

Overall, total migration was responsible for 77% of labour market growth between 1994 and 2019. EU workers made up 34% of total growth, and were increasingly likely to have worked in lower-paid roles by the time Brexit happened.



But Resolution report's found that while the Government's policy is likely to reduce migration into the UK, it is unlikely to significantly boost productivity or deliver a big hit to the public finances.


In the short term, the new migration regime will cause some sectors, like food manufacturing, transport and storage and hospitality (which have high turnover and are reliant on EU-born workers in occupations that wouldn't be eligible the new skilled visa) to experience an acute labour supply pinch.



But, the reporst says we shouldn't expect a reduction in migrant workers to automatically drive up wages for UK-born workers in these same sectors. Firms may look to use labour-saving technology instead -- leading to fewer jobs.

If they can't, they must choose between raising wages and raising prices (hitting incomes elsewhere in the economy), leading to production falling over the medium-to-long term.

If low-productivity, migrant-reliant sectors like farming and food manufacturing shrink, then average productivity could rise. Even so, the Prime Minister's claims that controlled migration is the key to a new high wage economic strategy "are overdone", Resolution says.

Kathleen Henehan, Senior Research and Policy Analyst at the Resolution Foundation, explains:

"Despite claims from both sides of the debate, the UK's new migration regime will do little to change the UK's economic trajectory, or its central low investment, low productivity challenges.

"Over the past two decades, immigration has had a profound effect on the size and composition of the UK's labour force, with migrants driving over three-quarters of the growth in the workforce.

"And sectors which are particularly reliant on migrant workers – such as food manufacturing, warehousing and accommodation – are more exposed to the regime changes, which will limit firms' abilities to hire low-paid non-UK workers in these industries and to respond quickly to changes in demand.

"But evidence does not suggest that the coming change in the level and nature of migration will transform our economy, or our public finances."

"Ultimately, a migration strategy is not a substitute for an economic strategy."



Late last year, the government extended the UK seasonal agricultural workers' visa scheme for another three years , meaning fruit and vegetable growers will be able to recruit overseas workers to help bring in harvests, following warnings that crops would rot in the fields otherwise.
One-in-five workers in food manufacturing in 2017-19 were from the EU and would be ineligible for a SWV, meaning the sector is likely to need to change significantly or shrink in the years ahead, Resolution's report found.
The food and accommodation sectors who rely on EU-workers in SWV-ineligible roles for 10% of their workforce have seen vacancies double as the economy reopened.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841


"With my European counterparts, we have prepared the next meeting of the Trade and Technology Council, in order to further strengthen our economic cooperation," Riester added.

A series of tweets then mentioned Valdis Dombrovskis, the European Commission for an Economy that Works for People, as well as a large pool of nations, all collaborating for a prosperous future.

The countries mentioned were Romania, Spain, Belgium, Czech Republic, Poland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Slovenia, Germany, Finland, Hungary, Denmark, Cyprus, Sweden, Lithuania, Ireland, Austria, Croatia, Greece, Slovakia, Malta, Estonia, Bulgaria and Portugal.

Although hopes have been high among UK politicians that they would not lose out outside the bloc as long as they partner up with the US, Biden has not rushed to collaborate with post-Brexit Britain.

In December, a Tory minister in charge of a post-Brexit trade deal with the US has begged Joe Biden to "awaken to an opportunity" to collaborate with the UK.

Trade minister Penny Mordaunt told an event in Atlanta that she wanted the US to wake up to Brexit and argued the US would not get the same benefits from the EU in attempting to convince Biden to work with Britain – but even prime minister Boris Johnson admitted in September that Biden is not prioritising a trade deal with the UK.

Yet, Mordaunt praised the two countries' "shared cultural DNA" and insisted a trade deal would create wealth, open trade systems and protect property rights.

"The most critical partner for us is the US. For the US to wait to seize this opportunity would be to all our detriment, but also to its own," she said.

She added: "You need to increase opportunities for business and attract investment. Want the prospect of a best in class deal on agriculture? Think you will get that from the EU?"

Mordaunt then went ahead to advertise Brexit as the thing that allowed the UK to "plug" itself "back into the global economy".

"That is our choice. Now America has a choice to make. How will you respond?," she asked.

t comes as Keir Starmer warned yesterday that the UK is "not going back" to rejoining the EU.

The Labour leader reiterated he wants to "make Brexit work" – and although he claimed he wants a "clear plan", he did not say what this may involve.

During a call with BBC Radio Newcastle, he said: "We have exited the EU and we are not going back, and let me be very clear in the North East about that, there's no case for rejoining.

"What I want to see now is not just Brexit done in the sense that we are technically out of the EU. I want to make it work.

"I want to make sure that we take advantage of the opportunities and that we have a clear plan for Brexit. So that's what I'm working on."
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,814
Having to beg other countries to even engage in negotiations for trade deals is an interesting strategy, that's for sure. Certainly a bit unconventional, but let's see how well it works out for the UK.
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,593
Having to beg other countries to even engage in negotiations for trade deals is an interesting strategy, that's for sure. Certainly a bit unconventional, but let's see how well it works out for the UK.


"That is our choice. Now America has a choice to make. How will you respond?," she asked.

USA: BugsBunnyNo.jpg

I mean, they WILL sell you chlorinated chicken and carve up your NHS if they get around to it, but I'm willing to bet that they have higher priority deals to make. Which the UK was told before Brexit. Repeatedly.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60407234

Evidence that leaving the EU has damaged UK trade is "few and far between", the government's Brexit opportunities minister has said.
Jacob Rees-Mogg, who was handed the new role last week, said recent drops in exports had been caused by disruption during Covid.

Last week, a cross-party committee of MPs said that new arrangements for the UK-EU border had added costs to exporting businesses.
In a report, the Public Accounts Committee said trade had been "suppressed" since the UK cut formal trade ties in January 2021, due a combination of Brexit, Covid and global economic problems.
The MPs said it was not possible to separate out the precise impact of each factor, but it was "clear" that Brexit had had an impact.
Official trade statistics show UK exports to the EU in the first ten months of 2021 were down 12% on pre-pandemic levels, in a year hit by disruption.
UK imports from the EU were 20% lower than before the pandemic.

Asked by the BBC about falls in trade during a visit to the port of Felixstowe, Mr Rees-Mogg said Covid had caused "the most enormous disruptions to supply chains".
"We've had containers simply being stuck the wrong place, being stuck in Chinese ports, being stuck in the port of Los Angeles," he added.
"This has been a global trade issue - and we do have to recover from the problems of Covid".
Asked whether Brexit had reduced UK trade, he replied: "I think Brexit has been extremely beneficial for the country.
"I think the evidence that Brexit has caused trade drops is few and far between."

Ministry of Truth right there, jfc. I wonder how many miles they will get out saying global problems!
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/p...cations-of-brexit-eu-report-concludes-312483/

MEPs believe they could have swung the vote for Remain if they had campaigned and warned the "often misled" British voters of the risks of leaving.

They have asked the European Commission to bring forward legislation to allow European political parties to finance future referendum campaigns on EU treaties in order to make it a more equal fight.

"Citizens were never given a clear picture of the relationship that their country would have with the EU once it left, and were often misled about the implications of the withdrawal, especially as regards Northern Ireland."

MEPs regretted the "restraint and limited engagement of the European Parliament and its committees in the run-up to the UK referendum", saying it had left UK citizens "without full access to information on the functioning of the EU and the implications of the withdrawal".

Jean-Claude Juncker, the then president of the European Commission, has said that David Cameron, the prime minister in 2016, had told him not to intervene in the campaign.

Speaking out on the matter in 2019 he admitted he should "not have listened" to the former prime minister.

"They asked me to shut up, so I shut up. That is something I criticise myself for. I should have spoken out rather than stay silent."

In order to avoid another Brexit, member states and EU institutions should "consistently provide wide-reaching information to EU citizens on the functioning of the European Union […] and the consequences of leaving the EU", the report said.

MEPs said "misinformation" had influenced the UK's vote to leave and warned that future referendums were at risk of "disinformation, foreign interference and funding irregularities".

The report said Brussels had achieved its "key aims" in the Brexit talks through EU unity in the face of a British "rejection of the obligations linked to EU membership". It praised the bloc for swiftly identifying its objectives of securing the financial settlement, or "Brexit bill", protecting the rights of citizens and the circumstances of Ireland.

In contrast, it attacked the UK Government for failing to plan for Brexit, which it said raised "the spectre" of no deal.

"The political and economic consequences of the decision to leave the union are significant," the non-binding report said. "These were not genuinely and fully assessed by the UK prior to its decision to withdraw."
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Wirtschaft/Aussenhandel/Tabellen/rangfolge-handelspartner.html

They need us more than they...

UK slips from 7th to 10th German trading partner in 2021, worst performance since 1950.
+15.1% with China (1st)
+20.1% with Netherlands (2nd)
+13.4% with US (3rd)
...
-4.6% with UK

I do wonder how or if the UK can plug the hole or is it downhill all the way until they can sell the public on single market again as ludicrous as that sounds and depressing if Labour get in and don't do anything. You can't deny reality like that, it's not doing your best.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Brexit dividend!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-benefits-dover-natalie-elphicke-tory-mp-b2018156.html?

he Conservative MP for Dover has claimed that Brexit is benefiting her town because new border bureaucracy is creating jobs there.

Natalie Elphicke said the work enforcing new red tape on goods passing through the town was a "Brexit dividend".

She characterised the £100m cost to the public purse of two new inspection facilities as an "investment" in her constituency by the government.

Two large new sites are required because leaving the EU has added new frictions to trade between Britain and the continent.

Vast armies of inspectors and experts are needed to check cargo which was previously able to flow freely.

The red tape has contributed to a record fall in exports to the bloc, which were down 12 per cent between January and December of last year compared to the previous year.

But representing the change as a win, Ms Elphicke told the BBC's Newsnight programme: "Here in Dover and Deal we've already been benefiting from the so-called Brexit dividend.

"We've had £100m invested in our border facilities here. It's going to bring with it 650 extra jobs."

The new bureaucracy and checks have created vast tailbacks of lorries, and the lack of adequate facilities has led to some desperate lorry drivers defecating by the roadside.

Speaking to the same programme Ms Elphicke said the problems were not caused by Brexit but by "Brussels bureaucracy".

"There was Brussels bureaucracy before we left, it's no surprise that it continues," she said.

"That red tape is really a challenge for business and I work with local businesses, and I work with a cabinet office and it's essential that we actually get a grip of this."

Give me strength. These fucks.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Common sense for once but a never ending waste of money replicating everything, it's so frustratingly stupid.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Stop wasting money you bunch of cunts. This is a grift right, they are just giving some of their pals tax payer money to do this worthless thing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rements-economic-benefit-study-b2021304.html?

The government is to launch a study of the economic benefits of reintroducing imperial units of measurement, to quantify a supposed advantage of Brexit.

Ministers provoked mockery from opposition politicians with the "ludicrous" move, which will be overseen by the business department this year.

In 2019, Boris Johnson pledged to usher in a new "era of generosity and tolerance towards traditional measurements" and suggested that measuring in pounds and ounces was "ancient liberty".


This month he appointed Jacob Rees-Mogg as "minister for Brexit opportunities" in order to examine how Britain can benefit from leaving the EU.

Imperial-only labelling fell out of business use when Britain joined the European common market in the early 1970s, but some people who remember the esoteric counting system remain attached to it.

/screaming internally

As opposed to the metric system of weight, in which 1,000 grams are equivalent to one kilogram, the imperial system says there are 14 pounds in a stone and 16 ounces in a pound.

For liquid, there are 20 fluid ounces in a pint and 160 fluid ounces in a gallon, instead of metric's 1,000 millilitres in a litre.

Paul Scully, a Tory business minister, said reintroducing imperial labelling would be "an important step in taking back control" and that a planned "assessment of the economic impact on business will be carried out in due course".

"Instead of wasting taxpayer money on looking to bring back imperial measurements, the government should be focusing on the real issues affecting businesses, like the miles of queues at our ports and the reams of red tape thrown up by Boris Johnson's shambolic EU trade deal."
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
Metro Detroit
Stop wasting money you bunch of cunts. This is a grift right, they are just giving some of their pals tax payer money to do this worthless thing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rements-economic-benefit-study-b2021304.html?



/screaming internally
I cannot fathom the amount of reach that will be required to come up with benefits to business [or anyone] of going back to imperial units...
In the US making an argument for preserving imperial [while still silly mind you] is at least semi reasonable, but going back is just insane....
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
I like the Independent's writer calling it an "esoteric counting system". That's what it should be called everywhere from now on. "Metric" and "esoteric".
 

Rafavert

Member
Oct 31, 2017
862
Portugal

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
I can understand wanted imperial measures back, but how does one even consider going back to them could possibly be an economic advantage?

It's not like they disappeared, you can still use them if you want as some do. I don't see the advantage at all, some people are getting paid to do this and that's all it is I imagine or wasting time until everyone sees the emperor has no clothes like everyone else has seen years ago with Brexit.
 

Jimbobsmells

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,166

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,483
I wonder how anyone can think she should somehow be grateful for missing 6 years of her own and her daughters most important years all because a cunt government couldn't be bothered to pay the debt that they agreed to. Of course Brextiers would be the first bunch of cunts that would think that, and you know if they were in her similar position, they would think the same they would hate the government, but they don't have the awareness or empathy to understand.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,676
Bruh, it was totally a different government that incurred that debt. Totally not the fault of the current ones!

Why should I pay for debts the old tenant left?

😒