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Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels?
- Thread starter Lightning Count
- Start date
I get why Bret didn't want to drop the title, but ultimately you do what the promoter asks of you, especially if you are on the way out. Shawn beating Bret for the title in Canada was necessary. Like yeah it sucks but do the job. If not shenanigans occur.
easy to say that when your company is not on the line
if you're leaving you drop the title and put over the next guy, that has been rule forever, doesnt matter what your personal problems are. fact that you can't follow a basic locker room/industry code like that but expect your previous employer to "trust" you to do the right thing and drop the title later is so gullible. you put the title on shawn to give him heat then move on to wcw to do whatever you want, that's being professional
in a business environment where you're joining a competitor then saying -
"oh not to shawn"
"oh not in montreal"
"oh not today, not now"
that's called being a mark, get real
Bret showed up in WCW in December, as was always planned. There was no intention to pull a Medusa on Bret's part. Vince was(is?) a paranoid nutcase who was perfectly fine going back on his word because the ends justify the means, in his head. The success of the company after Montreal was the worst thing to happen, in hindsight, because it justified his shitty hypocritical business practices and proved that he "had" to screw Bret in order to save his business. Which is bullshit. 25 years later and we still have Vince marks running around defending him in general.
lol you have no clue what your talking about and it shows.
Exactly
Bret had a creative control clause in his contract, one he did not use often at all, and as a reminder, Bret's contract wasn't expiring. He wasn't leaving because he'd found a better deal. He signed a new multi-year contract with Vince the year before, 5 years I think it was, and the entire reason he was leaving the company was because Vince wanted to back out of that contract.
When you're leaving on those circumstances, you get to call the shots on the way out the door, especially when you're backed with a contract that guarantees you that right.
Bret Hart is a legend who cared more about the sport than himself.
Still, Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels Iron Man is still my favorite match ever
Still, Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels Iron Man is still my favorite match ever
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Isn't "creative control" generally bullshit though? Ive heard a lot of wrestlers comment on how that is always sort of bullshit put in the contracts that is hard to really enforce either way.
Man. I was just having this Convo with a buddy the other day.
For me, Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler of all time. Hands down. As a kid I loved HBK and HATED Bret Hart. I didn't get into wrestling big until Shawn was in DX and Bret was in the Hart Foundation. So, I hated the guy hating on my country, as I was told to.
Fast forward, I've gone back and watched most of Brets career and while I can say he's one of, if not the best to ever do it, Shawn is still my favorite, because to me he's more entertaining.
I respect Bret Hart, his career was incredible, ended too soon and the amount of personal tragedy he has endured in his life is heartbreaking. But Shawn's the GOAT to me. Easily.
For me, Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler of all time. Hands down. As a kid I loved HBK and HATED Bret Hart. I didn't get into wrestling big until Shawn was in DX and Bret was in the Hart Foundation. So, I hated the guy hating on my country, as I was told to.
Fast forward, I've gone back and watched most of Brets career and while I can say he's one of, if not the best to ever do it, Shawn is still my favorite, because to me he's more entertaining.
I respect Bret Hart, his career was incredible, ended too soon and the amount of personal tragedy he has endured in his life is heartbreaking. But Shawn's the GOAT to me. Easily.
I mean, Bret wasn't being entirely professional. In the end nobody was.
Bret was being more professional than Vince and certainly Shawn.
If you want to look at that period of business and determine who among Vince, Shawn, and Bret was being the most professional, it's Bret Hart all day every day.
when you own a business and a disgruntled employee on a 2 weeks notice wants to make managerial decisions on the future of the business…. make sure to hand him all your keys in your bret hart pink tinted marky mark world
in the real world, you do what your job tells you to do until you leave
Because that's what happened, Bret Hart just up and gave two weeks notice out of nowhere, and not Vince McMahon was such a mess that he went to his world champion and was like "I need you to let me out of this 5 year contract I just signed with you last year".
When I was a kid, Shawn Michael was my favorites and I really enjoyed his return run up through retirement. Now, the fact that he's a shithead definitely changes my opinion and I now lean more towards Bret Hart.
Keeping in mind I've barely watched wrestling since WCW died but was all in on the Attitude/NWO era as well as like circa 1994-1995 stuff. Memories are fleeting. We are old.
Pluses for Shawn Michaels:
1) That damn music, the entire playboy attitude. The gimmick just worked regardless of what you think about it
2) Much more of a high flyer, more versatile as far as the types of matches he'd take, and much more at least in my memory willing to take crazy bumps
3) Sweet Chin Music is the greatest and most versatile finisher ever
Pluses for Bret Hart:
1) More entertaining on the mic. Loved how he often just seemed so pissed off at everyone. Best catchphrase in the business.
2) The entire black and pink look, the shades, the entrance. There's no more iconic wrestler look outside of red and yellow Hulk Hogan.
3) Much more engaging technical wrestler on the ground (than almost anyone save for like Dean Malenko, at least to me), and Sharpshooter was superb back when he could squat down enough to make it look like it really hurt
I go with Bret because I liked him a bit more overall (he almost made me like Canada) and there are a billion stories about Michaels being a total asshole backstage that bring him down a couple notches for me. But HBK was dope as hell too during that time.
Pluses for Shawn Michaels:
1) That damn music, the entire playboy attitude. The gimmick just worked regardless of what you think about it
2) Much more of a high flyer, more versatile as far as the types of matches he'd take, and much more at least in my memory willing to take crazy bumps
3) Sweet Chin Music is the greatest and most versatile finisher ever
Pluses for Bret Hart:
1) More entertaining on the mic. Loved how he often just seemed so pissed off at everyone. Best catchphrase in the business.
2) The entire black and pink look, the shades, the entrance. There's no more iconic wrestler look outside of red and yellow Hulk Hogan.
3) Much more engaging technical wrestler on the ground (than almost anyone save for like Dean Malenko, at least to me), and Sharpshooter was superb back when he could squat down enough to make it look like it really hurt
I go with Bret because I liked him a bit more overall (he almost made me like Canada) and there are a billion stories about Michaels being a total asshole backstage that bring him down a couple notches for me. But HBK was dope as hell too during that time.
I can recall basically all of Bret's top moments whereas I only remember some of Shawn's.
Bret's entire WWF run felt like one continuous naturally evolving story.
Bret's entire WWF run felt like one continuous naturally evolving story.
Bret is the GOAT Pro Wrestler. Shawn is the GOAT Sports Entertainer. Depends on what you value more. I lean more towards Bret.
I believe it was a 20 year contract and Bret was still unhappy with the overall payouts. He also wasn't happy with the future of his character in the company.
Vince offered to still honor the contract after Hart met with WCW, but it was ultimately the creative future leading Bret to move.
So Bret's before my time, and I watched Shawn's best work (2002-2007?) as I was growing up. Shawn was absolutely a tremendous performer and a generational talent within WWE. I watched all of that on real-time and enjoyed the good shit that he did.
Then the WWE Network dropped, and straight up got obsessed with Bret and Sean Waltman. X-Pac was the best worker out of the entire Attitude Era! The matches he's had age the best out of everyone.
Anyway, Bret's better.
Then the WWE Network dropped, and straight up got obsessed with Bret and Sean Waltman. X-Pac was the best worker out of the entire Attitude Era! The matches he's had age the best out of everyone.
Anyway, Bret's better.
Actually Vince told Bret that he couldn't pay him his 20 year contract.
Immense respect for Bret for simply still being able to go on despite all the shit that happened to him in the span of a couple of years. To go through everything that happened to him and not give up on life outright is commendable. It's why I give him slack about the whole "oh all he does is complain he's so bitter" stuff, if I went through everything that Bret did, I'd be as bitter as him too.
I was watching a Bret promo from when he first came back. Austin had been taking cheap shots at Hart the whole time, never attacking him face to face. Never on an even playing field. A John Cena promo would have called him a 'coward' and probably buried him from being from WCW and squashed him in a singles match
The best part of that promo, Bret comes out and says, 'I can't call myself the best until I beat the guy in the back who I think is the best. Steve Austin.' And even though Bret gets the best of Austin and Austin does come off as afraid of Bret in a fair fight, it doesn't matter because a veteran Bret Hart came out and called him the best.
The best part of that promo, Bret comes out and says, 'I can't call myself the best until I beat the guy in the back who I think is the best. Steve Austin.' And even though Bret gets the best of Austin and Austin does come off as afraid of Bret in a fair fight, it doesn't matter because a veteran Bret Hart came out and called him the best.
Initially yeah. Him offering to honor it was at the after his WCW negotiations as a last effort
it's a real fucking shame that all the stuff with vince/shawn/kliq now clouds just how big of a fucking babyface star the dude was. that he was able to ably straddle that line and be an effective face/heel at the same time is a credit to him. i wish we could just acknowledge just how fucking good he was at just being the ace. he carried that damn company through the early-mid 90s.
people really don't give him the credit he deserves. because he was guy that drew the crowd, he was a fucking international star. but he was reliable in that he could truly work with anyone and build anyone up. your big mans, your technicians, your brawlers, your highflyers, faces/heels, whatever. he could work with anyone. and maybe that's the difference because i don't know if shawn was ever great at building anyone up but himself or his buddies.
bret made a lot of guys. he made shawn.
www.youtube.com
it's a real shame that goldberg fucked his career because it must kill someone that loves the art so much to not be able to really participate in it, plus all the other health issues he's faced over the past few decades.
bret def deserves his flowers, haters be damned.
people really don't give him the credit he deserves. because he was guy that drew the crowd, he was a fucking international star. but he was reliable in that he could truly work with anyone and build anyone up. your big mans, your technicians, your brawlers, your highflyers, faces/heels, whatever. he could work with anyone. and maybe that's the difference because i don't know if shawn was ever great at building anyone up but himself or his buddies.
bret made a lot of guys. he made shawn.
WWF/WWE Bret HitMan Hart - Entrance (RARE) !
WWF Superstars of Wrestling, later shortened to WWF Superstars, is a professional wrestling television program that was produced by the World Wrestling Feder...
www.youtube.com
it's a real shame that goldberg fucked his career because it must kill someone that loves the art so much to not be able to really participate in it, plus all the other health issues he's faced over the past few decades.
bret def deserves his flowers, haters be damned.
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And why The Rock never had a proper angle with Shawn.
He's a piece of shit and used the born again shtick so people think he's changed.
Bret has always told the truth. About Warrior, and I was a huge Warrior fan in the early 90s as a 7 year old, but he was right. About Triple H. About Goldberg. He admitted Shawn was a great wrestler, but knows his business side of things was always beneficial to himself, be it sandbagging or losing his smile. Knew enough to say, yeah Hogan as a performer was not good in the WWF, but his look and how Vince marketed him drew, and guys like Shawn and himself didn't as much. Had some beef with Flair and his bullshit which no one seems to do, unless it's Scott Steiner. He's another one who's right even though most of his promos look at as comedy.
Yeah, I never really got the love for Bret. He's just boring. HBK is incredibly entertaining. Which is what wrestling is about.
Bret. He took The Rock under his wing and protected from The Kliq assholes. The rest is history.
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Shawn, by far. Brett is great technically but very boring to actually watch, and dull to listen to.